[GW2]New thread is go. We are still doing pretty great at WvW.

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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Things change though and given that I'm not that keen on the appearance of the dungeon sets light/medium anyway I can live without the frustration of current dungeons, just a shame that aanet took two steps forward with the rest of the game and went back to the stone age of mmo's for dungeons.

    What? You prefer something like WoW dungeons, that only consist of not standing in stuff and maximizing DPS/healing/tank?

    No thanks. The dungeons in this game are fantastic and are very much a step forward.

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

    It seriously sucks SO MUCH once you got the bosses trick down and then you need to wail on him for 10-15 minutes.

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  • steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    5 Minutes is pretty much my optimal boss-length time. Anything beyond that just seems pointless.

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  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Things change though and given that I'm not that keen on the appearance of the dungeon sets light/medium anyway I can live without the frustration of current dungeons, just a shame that aanet took two steps forward with the rest of the game and went back to the stone age of mmo's for dungeons.

    What? You prefer something like WoW dungeons, that only consist of not standing in stuff and maximizing DPS/healing/tank?

    When did I claim that?

    But you think a 20-30 min fight with basic mechanics is alright...I don't think anyone of us is gunna have any luck talking to you about this.

    Because that's awful design. And for the record most wow, rift hell even swtor dungeons and raids have far more engaging mechanics then the dungeons here. 3-4 abilities that insta gib but are fairly easily avoided that you need to avoid for 20 mins at a time is not my or I dare say many peoples idea of fun.

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    steejee wrote: »
    5 Minutes is pretty much my optimal boss-length time. Anything beyond that just seems pointless.

    Same here.

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

    Read about? I played FFXI for years. Loved it.

    But in that video, you have glass cannons dying all the time and not everyone is 80 (unless the guy filming with 10k HP isn't a glass cannon?). So of course it will take a long time.

    I will say that they are not tuned to their level requirements very well. The difference between an 80 in exotics and a 79 is rather large. But when you start grinding these things for level 80 rewards, chances are you are doing it in full exotics with a well coordinated group. In that video, I see a champion mob with zero defiant stacks running around loose killing people. Yet the group has multiple guardians? WTF? Staff #5 could absolutely trivialize that sort of thing.

    So ya, thanks for the video, it just helps confirm my original thoughts about the vocal minority complaing its to hard. I mentioned in the old thread as well about that boss with the bird ability, and again guardians can solve that problem easily... yet that video has more than 1 guardian and they aren't really doing shit about it.

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  • HugglesHuggles Future War Cult 4 lyfRegistered User regular
    Looks like there is never going to be consensus over this. The only solution is neckbeards at dawn.

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  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

    So ya, thanks for the video, it just helps confirm my original thoughts about the vocal minority complaing its to hard. I mentioned in the old thread as well about that boss with the bird ability, and again guardians can solve that problem easily... yet that video has more than 1 guardian and they aren't really doing shit about it.

    You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Acharenus on
  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    To be fair, dungeon design has never really been the strong suit of the A.net team. I'm sure they'll get better at it as it's more integral to the game than it really was in GW1.

    That being said the only dungeon I've done so far was AC story and I found that to be fun and not overly hard but I know a lot of people complain about it. I don't really see the problem with it as the only wipe we had was The Lovers and we destroyed them the second time with no issues.

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    When did I claim that?

    But you think a 20-30 min fight with basic mechanics is alright...I don't think anyone of us is gunna have any luck talking to you about this.

    Because that's awful design. And for the record most wow, rift hell even swtor dungeons and raids have far more engaging mechanics then the dungeons here. 3-4 abilities that insta gib but are fairly easily avoided that you need to avoid for 20 mins at a time is not my or I dare say many peoples idea of fun.

    Maybe I assumed.

    Just like you are assuming I think 20-30 min fights are ok. My point is that long fights like that are due to people just being bad. The only proof Ive seen of these extremely long fights is people dying and chain rezzing each other through the whole fight... which of course will cause it to take a really long time.



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  • Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    Nope.

    Think he used it pretty well.

    Vivixenne
  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

    Read about? I played FFXI for years. Loved it.

    I assumed nothing.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

    I know exactly what it means. It means the same thing it has meant in all games where players have a forum voice. This is nothing new, every MMO has this when new content is out or the game is just released.

    I should probably know better by now to just ignore it and enjoy ANET's answer on the whole issue.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    So, what's the issue?
    That's at around 4x speed.

    The boss takes around 15-20 minutes. He only has 4 abilities, all of which are basic ranger abilities buffed up to have high damage. It's not even remotely interesting, it's just "repeat this for 20 minutes".

    It's the kind of awful extended encounter design that you read about in FFXI.

    Read about? I played FFXI for years. Loved it.

    Good news everyone, we now know his opinions on everything are invalid.

    shryke
  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    What? You prefer something like WoW dungeons, that only consist of not standing in stuff and maximizing DPS/healing/tank?

    No thanks. The dungeons in this game are fantastic and are very much a step forward.
    The design of WoW's boss mechanics was head and shoulders better than anything I've seen in GW2. Now, yes, it was heavily reliant on the trinity, but there was a lot it did well.

    There were very good tells for dangerous abilities, and both boss abilities and their arenas were very well designated and readable.

    Whereas there are plenty of bosses (and 'trash' mobs) in GW2 where the question is "what on earth am I supposed to do about this apparently unavoidable damage?"
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Read about? I played FFXI for years. Loved it.
    You think Absolute Virtue is fun?
    Badwrong wrote: »
    But in that video, you have glass cannons dying all the time and not everyone is 80 (unless the guy filming with 10k HP isn't a glass cannon?). So of course it will take a long time.
    You're downlevelled to 76.
    Badwrong wrote: »
    In that video, I see a champion mob with zero defiant stacks running around loose killing people. Yet the group has multiple guardians? WTF? Staff #5 could absolutely trivialize that sort of thing.
    It has no effect on him. His dash move jumps through it, and he runs straight around in a couple of seconds, whereas its cooldown is 40 seconds.
    Badwrong wrote: »
    I mentioned in the old thread as well about that boss with the bird ability, and again guardians can solve that problem easily... yet that video has more than 1 guardian and they aren't really doing shit about it.
    Protection doesn't even remotely stop the bird's damage. I was putting it on whoever got hit every time it was up, and each time they would still get downed.

    Look, the rough total of the damage you take from the birds is 48k, after toughness and armour. I was running middle toughness armour and I'm a Guardian, so I have max armour value. As I've mentioned before, I'm in full exotics. If I buff myself with protection, I'm still only reducing it to 36k.

    You need a double roll, and then either to have 18k+ hp available, or a block skill up, to prevent yourself getting downed by the birds.

    And hell, this is a 76 dungeon, one that should be tuned to having blues/greens at 76.

    The idea that this is even remotely tuned or 'fun' is amazing.

    I mean if you criticise WoW dungeons, but laud this sort of design, I cannot begin to understand where you're coming from.

    Vorpalunintentional
  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    Nope.

    Think he used it pretty well.

    really because I'm looking at the official forums and the PA forum and it seems the exact opposite is true.

    Maybe you guys are talking about some other forum where people who think dungeons need to be changed are the minority.

  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Good news everyone, we now know his opinions on everything are invalid.

    I'm not going to go off on a tangent to explain why FFXI was fun. Its a drastically different game than this anyway.

    I will point out you are being a goose.

    In case a lot of you didn't know, many people avoid this thread due to the discussions like this. You guys scare many people away because you gang up on someone who doesn't agree with you.
    I'm merely trying to say that my experience has been different and I've enjoyed it, if others haven't... fine, but stop telling this shit like its facts.

    Anyway, thanks for the reminder on why the GW2 thread can be terrible.... Shiashi mentioned it the other day actually, I should have listened to him.

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  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Good news everyone, we now know his opinions on everything are invalid.

    I'm not going to go off on a tangent to explain why FFXI was fun. Its a drastically different game than this anyway.

    I will point out you are being a goose.

    In case a lot of you didn't know, many people avoid this thread due to the discussions like this. You guys scare many people away because you gang up on someone who doesn't agree with you.
    I'm merely trying to say that my experience has been different and I've enjoyed it, if others haven't... fine, but stop telling this shit like its facts.

    Anyway, thanks for the reminder on why the GW2 thread can be terrible.... Shiashi mentioned it the other day actually, I should have listened to him.

    Well we can't appoint a spokesman for our opinions and we shouldn't have to anyway.

    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You came in and told everyone to play better and get better groups and claimed 20 minute fights were fine by you.

    The shamalan twist here is you were a goose all along.

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    I remember in FFXII where you spend 15 minutes chipping away at a boss.

    Then, and this happens with every boss, when the boss gets down to about 15% health. He does his 'super move' that basically bring your entire team down to critical health and heals the boss to full health. So you basically have to spend another 20 minutes doing the same fucking thing the first 15 minutes.

    That is an example of lazy boss design.

    manwiththemachinegun
  • HugglesHuggles Future War Cult 4 lyfRegistered User regular
    This thread used to be such a nice neighbourhood.

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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    You're downlevelled to 76.

    I'm not going to reply to the rest of your crap, but I will point out that you don't fully understand how a downleveled person who is also 80 in exotics is not the same as someone below 80 is downleveled.

    Oh and staff #5 cooldown is not 40 seconds with traits. A lot of things in this game change with traits, but since most of your arguments don't seem to account for that at all I'm not going to bother educating you at this point. I tried in the previous thread, it was just pointless. You are right, dungeons are just trash, end of story, no one else can have different opinions on the matter.

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Cobalt60 wrote: »
    Nope.

    Think he used it pretty well.

    really because I'm looking at the official forums and the PA forum and it seems the exact opposite is true.

    Maybe you guys are talking about some other forum where people who think dungeons need to be changed are the minority.

    In all fariness, the people yelling on forums have always been referred to as the "vocal minority" when it comes to MMOs. So pointing out that you are talking about people yelling on forums....

    desc wrote: »
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  • Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    There are several million people who play guild wars 2.

    People who post on forums are the minority.

    DemonStaceyFeldornmanwiththemachinegunVivixenne
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    really because I'm looking at the official forums and the PA forum and it seems the exact opposite is true.

    Maybe you guys are talking about some other forum where people who think dungeons need to be changed are the minority.

    Actually, in the PA teamspeak many people have agreed that goin to this forum to talk about this stuff is a terrible experience. So basically the vocal minority on the matter has scared away everyone else from even bothering to post here in this thread.

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  • HugglesHuggles Future War Cult 4 lyfRegistered User regular
    Acharenus wrote:
    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You sure as hell don't speak for me.

    Consider for more than a second that it's OK for people to have different opinions to yours without either of you being wrong.

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Good news everyone, we now know his opinions on everything are invalid.

    I'm not going to go off on a tangent to explain why FFXI was fun. Its a drastically different game than this anyway.

    I will point out you are being a goose.

    In case a lot of you didn't know, many people avoid this thread due to the discussions like this. You guys scare many people away because you gang up on someone who doesn't agree with you.
    I'm merely trying to say that my experience has been different and I've enjoyed it, if others haven't... fine, but stop telling this shit like its facts.

    Anyway, thanks for the reminder on why the GW2 thread can be terrible.... Shiashi mentioned it the other day actually, I should have listened to him.

    Well we can't appoint a spokesman for our opinions and we shouldn't have to anyway.

    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You came in and told everyone to play better and get better groups and claimed 20 minute fights were fine by you.

    The shamalan twist here is you were a goose all along.

    He came in and told you why, in his opinion, it wasn't bad. He doesn't have to agree with you and you were a silly goose and jumped on him.

    Let's move on, please.

    Seidkona on
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  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Well we can't appoint a spokesman for our opinions and we shouldn't have to anyway.

    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You came in and told everyone to play better and get better groups and claimed 20 minute fights were fine by you.

    The shamalan twist here is you were a goose all along.

    No... I stated that my experience has been different and I feel others might not have the same group set up or professions.

    Perhaps people just don't want to think they aren't good at the game? I dunno.

    You guys have a double standard about this shit anyway. You're free to rant about how it sucks, but if anyone even hints that they enjoyed it you guys gangbang the person with rants.

    edit: just look at bethryn's last post.... fuck me, I'm never even going to bother replying to that poster again. Its just not worth the effort when they go to such lengths to deny anyone of an opinion.

    Badwrong on
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  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Huggles wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote:
    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You sure as hell don't speak for me.

    Consider for more than a second that it's OK for people to have different opinions to yours without either of you being wrong.

    When you have an opinion contrary to someone elses that's usually interpreted as disagreeing.

    I sure as hell made no claim to match what you seem to think, and given that the response to my opinion has been largely "play better get better groups" maybe you should aim that cannon at someone else.
    No... I stated that my experience has been different and I feel others might not have the same group set up or professions.

    Perhaps people just don't want to think they aren't good at the game? I dunno.

    You guys have a double standard about this shit anyway. You're free to rant about how it sucks, but if anyone even hints that they enjoyed it you guys gangbang the person with rants.

    I mean have you read some of this guys posts?

    That's been his answer since post one not "I respect your oppinion" but "you're obviously doing something wrong, because 20 min fights are in fact fun and awesome"

  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    I'm not going to reply to the rest of your crap, but I will point out that you don't fully understand how a downleveled person who is also 80 in exotics is not the same as someone below 80 is downleveled.

    Oh and staff #5 cooldown is not 40 seconds with traits. A lot of things in this game change with traits, but since most of your arguments don't seem to account for that at all I'm not going to bother educating you at this point. I tried in the previous thread, it was just pointless. You are right, dungeons are just trash, end of story, no one else can have different opinions on the matter.
    You're behaving like a goose.

    1. Exotics are downlevelled to be exotics of their level. You lose a thousand or so HP at least from that.
    2. Level 76 story mode dungeons should not be tuned to level 80s with full exotics. The entire point of story mode is that you do it at the appropriate level; explorable mode is what the ANet team said was tuned to 80s with exotics.

    Let me actually get deep into your next point, because it is evident of a particular kind of cognitive dissonance.

    You could theoretically trait your guardian staff to lower than 40 seconds. Except there are a few things here.

    1. When you go into a dungeon for the first time, you don't know what any of the bosses abilities are going to be. So it's impossible to tell if you're going to need specific traits for a dungeon until you've actually seen each of the mechanics you're facing... which requires going in and facing them, often without the traits that you are suggesting are so necessary.
    2. Unlike utility skills, traits are not immediately mutable, and additionally have a nice little silver cost attached.
    3. Even if you took the -20% CD trait, that's still only 5 seconds out of every 32. The boss autos regularly, and uses one of his abilities every 4-5 seconds.

    If you're going to behave like a goose, and suggest you're "educating me" and "I don't fully understand" and that I'm suggesting "no one else can have a different opinion on the matter", you only demonstrate to everybody involved that you're incapable of proving your point, and are simply falling back on the usual bravado of someone who knows damn well that they can't disprove what they're being shown.

  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Entaru wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Badwrong wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Good news everyone, we now know his opinions on everything are invalid.

    I'm not going to go off on a tangent to explain why FFXI was fun. Its a drastically different game than this anyway.

    I will point out you are being a goose.

    In case a lot of you didn't know, many people avoid this thread due to the discussions like this. You guys scare many people away because you gang up on someone who doesn't agree with you.
    I'm merely trying to say that my experience has been different and I've enjoyed it, if others haven't... fine, but stop telling this shit like its facts.

    Anyway, thanks for the reminder on why the GW2 thread can be terrible.... Shiashi mentioned it the other day actually, I should have listened to him.

    Well we can't appoint a spokesman for our opinions and we shouldn't have to anyway.

    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You came in and told everyone to play better and get better groups and claimed 20 minute fights were fine by you.

    The shamalan twist here is you were a goose all along.

    He came in and told you why, in his opinion, it wasn't bad you were just doing it wrong(even though doing it "right" still takes 15-20 mins so he kinda missed the point). He doesn't have to agree with you and you were a silly goose and jumped on him.

    Let's move on, please.

    See had that been added maybe you'd have a valid point there.

    Having to actually debate your opinion isn't some great evil and if you instantly play the martyred victim maybe you should give up this forum business.

  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Well we can't appoint a spokesman for our opinions and we shouldn't have to anyway.

    We all disagree with you and have listed why.

    You came in and told everyone to play better and get better groups and claimed 20 minute fights were fine by you.

    The shamalan twist here is you were a goose all along.

    edit: just look at bethryn's last post.... fuck me, I'm never even going to bother replying to that poster again. Its just not worth the effort when they go to such lengths to deny anyone of an opinion.

    Explain to me how you aren't doing worse by just saying "You're probably just terrible. As is your group. As is your spec and gear and level"

    Hilarious.

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    This conversation on dungeons and your opinions thereof, yeah, stop having it.

    I was going to offer some constructive arguments (because I agree with Badwrong here), but it's not worth it.

    #opinions

    Move along please.

    SeidkonaDemonStaceyAvynteVivixenne
  • BadwrongBadwrong TokyoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Explain to me how you aren't doing worse by just saying "You're probably just terrible. As is your group. As is your spec and gear and level"

    Hilarious.

    If you want to dig it up in the old thread, be my guest, I theorycrafted about it enough already. You and Bethryn just are not worth replying to any more, you seem to be more concerned about discrediting some's opinion than actually being open to a discussion.

    I will add on a last note though, that your defensivness about it being suggested that you are doing things wrong tells a lot about this entire thing. Feel free to get your last word in and win your internets for the day.

    edit: And my apologies Rysk... I think you were in teamspeak when shiashi mentioned it just not worth commenting about it here... I shoulda listened.

    Badwrong on
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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    edit: just look at bethryn's last post.... fuck me, I'm never even going to bother replying to that poster again. Its just not worth the effort when they go to such lengths to deny anyone of an opinion.
    The fact that I disagree with you in no way denies you of your opinion, or of your ability to enjoy dungeons.

    But if you're going to call my opinions 'crap', and tell me I'm doing it wrong while suggesting things that will not meaningfully impact the issues I am speaking of, you really shouldn't expect any attitude other than mine, because you sure as heck aren't maintaining a polite or friendly demeanour yourself.

  • steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    This conversation on dungeons and your opinions thereof, yeah, stop having it.

    I was going to offer some constructive arguments (because I agree with Badwrong here), but it's not worth it.

    #opinions

    Move along please.

    I think

    *opinions

    Would be more appropriate :p

    (or ')*(opinions' if you don't get it)

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited September 2012
    Here's a pretty cool visual guide if you're interested in twilight and what it will take to get it:

    http://i.imgur.com/e4e1l.jpg

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    Along the line of the events for tonight, I want to remind everybody of a couple of things:

    1) wuvwuv match should reset at 5pm PST
    2) forum maintenance at 8pm PST so if you're coordinating stuff to do please get it done sooner versus later

    I'm going to be online doing some wuvwuv right at the start. We can discuss before in TS where we want to go for the initial rush etc. Looking forward to getting lots of NICE guys and maybe claiming Stonemist Castle.

  • AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    Explain to me how you aren't doing worse by just saying "You're probably just terrible. As is your group. As is your spec and gear and level"

    Hilarious.

    If you want to dig it up in the old thread, be my guest, I theorycrafted about it enough already. You and Bethryn just are not worth replying to any more, you seem to be more concerned about discrediting some's opinion than actually being open to a discussion.

    I will add on a last note though, that your defensivness about it being suggested that you are doing things wrong tells a lot about this entire thing. Feel free to get your last word in and win your internets for the day.

    So far I've pointed out what your response has been and that it's shallow and insulting while all you've done is play the victim.

    You have been insulting from the word go but apparently you've gotten a free pass on that and calling you on it on it has labeled me as the bad guy. I can live with that, I'm not here for proverbial pats on the back just to state and defend my opinion which I've done. That's the "internets" I'll be taking away from this exchange.

    And the knowledge that when debating anyone on the PA forums the faster you tell someone to learn2play and to stop being mean by disagreeing with you the faster you win friends and influence people.

  • steejeesteejee Registered User regular
    Entaru wrote: »
    Here's a pretty cool visual guide if you're interested in twilight and what it will take to get it:

    http://i.imgur.com/e4e1l.jpg

    Do all legendaries require a gift of exploration?

    If so, does that mean you can effectively only craft 1 per character?

    The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog
    Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
    Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
    On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
    Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
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