“It was most likely because the ESF teams only got 8 invites and KESPA got 24”, FXOpen eSports Director Joshua Dentrinos told GameSpot, one of the teams part of the ESF. “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
That...seems like a fucked up distribution, considering all KESPA has done is dick over everyone who isn't them.
The tournament is called MLG v. KeSPA? Who in the fuck thought they weren't going to invite a majority of KeSPA players?
It's like people's logic center turns off when they talk about KeSPA. That TL thread is a fucking cess pool of band wagoning, and no one even knows any facts! All we have is a FXOBoss statement (surprise surprise, FXOBoss stiring up shit), and Slasher trying to stir the pot.
If anything, this makes ESF look bush league. They had to have known the parameters of the tournament when they agreed to it, but now they aren't satisfactory? But, as we can see from TL, the community will buy just about any load of shit provided it's anti-KeSPA.
There's a lot of people in that thread arguing against ESF. Read the last few pages.
If you only look at the first page, it's only natural that you're going to see a lot of gut reaction posts and low quality one liners. Those are the quickest posts to make.
Jibba on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
“It was most likely because the ESF teams only got 8 invites and KESPA got 24”, FXOpen eSports Director Joshua Dentrinos told GameSpot, one of the teams part of the ESF. “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
That...seems like a fucked up distribution, considering all KESPA has done is dick over everyone who isn't them.
The tournament is called MLG v. KeSPA? Who in the fuck thought they weren't going to invite a majority of KeSPA players?
It's like people's logic center turns off when they talk about KeSPA. That TL thread is a fucking cess pool of band wagoning, and no one even knows any facts! All we have is a FXOBoss statement (surprise surprise, FXOBoss stiring up shit), and Slasher trying to stir the pot.
If anything, this makes ESF look bush league. They had to have known the parameters of the tournament when they agreed to it, but now they aren't satisfactory? But, as we can see from TL, the community will buy just about any load of shit provided it's anti-KeSPA.
I only knew it was called MLG vs. Proleague. I had no idea that Proleague = KeSPA.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I've read the whole thread. It's still a cesspool of bandwagoning in ESF's favor. Any post critical of the KeSPA bashing is instantly shot down by 15 people.
Again, it's like people's ability to process logical, rational, thought turns off when KeSPA is involved.
I'm literally keeping a tally from page 7 and beyond, and it's fairly even between Pro-MLG, Pro-ESF, Anti-MLG, Anti-ESF.
There's a lot of people complaining about the 8 direct seeds for the Fall Championship group play, and that's a totally fair complaint imo. This is set up as a show match, not a qualifier.
I mean, I absolutely agree that people are being unfairly harsh because it's KeSPA benefiting from it. Reverse the situations and people probably wouldn't care. But I don't think it's 100% anti-Kespa. Maybe 2:1.
Jibba on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
“It was most likely because the ESF teams only got 8 invites and KESPA got 24”, FXOpen eSports Director Joshua Dentrinos told GameSpot, one of the teams part of the ESF. “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
That...seems like a fucked up distribution, considering all KESPA has done is dick over everyone who isn't them.
The tournament is called MLG v. KeSPA? Who in the fuck thought they weren't going to invite a majority of KeSPA players?
It's like people's logic center turns off when they talk about KeSPA. That TL thread is a fucking cess pool of band wagoning, and no one even knows any facts! All we have is a FXOBoss statement (surprise surprise, FXOBoss stiring up shit), and Slasher trying to stir the pot.
If anything, this makes ESF look bush league. They had to have known the parameters of the tournament when they agreed to it, but now they aren't satisfactory? But, as we can see from TL, the community will buy just about any load of shit provided it's anti-KeSPA.
I only knew it was called MLG vs. Proleague. I had no idea that Proleague = KeSPA.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Did you really not know that Proleague = KeSPA? Proleague has been KeSPA's league since KeSPA's inception.
“It was most likely because the ESF teams only got 8 invites and KESPA got 24”, FXOpen eSports Director Joshua Dentrinos told GameSpot, one of the teams part of the ESF. “When KESPA hasn't helped develop MLG as much as ESF teams have.”
That...seems like a fucked up distribution, considering all KESPA has done is dick over everyone who isn't them.
The tournament is called MLG v. KeSPA? Who in the fuck thought they weren't going to invite a majority of KeSPA players?
It's like people's logic center turns off when they talk about KeSPA. That TL thread is a fucking cess pool of band wagoning, and no one even knows any facts! All we have is a FXOBoss statement (surprise surprise, FXOBoss stiring up shit), and Slasher trying to stir the pot.
If anything, this makes ESF look bush league. They had to have known the parameters of the tournament when they agreed to it, but now they aren't satisfactory? But, as we can see from TL, the community will buy just about any load of shit provided it's anti-KeSPA.
I only knew it was called MLG vs. Proleague. I had no idea that Proleague = KeSPA.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Did you really not know that Proleague = KeSPA? Proleague has been KeSPA's league since KeSPA's inception.
My only interaction with Brood War was playing Use Map Settings, and knowing that people in Korea really, really liked it. All I know about KeSPA is that they have a bad reputation for treating their players and everyone who isn't themselves like shit.
So, no. I had no idea that Proleague was a synonym for KeSPA.
edit: I played Brood War campaign too.
3cl1ps3 on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Fair enough. Yes, Proleague is a synonym for KeSPA. Though PL has non-KeSPA players in it now, to some extent.
I think warpgates do need to be changed before sentries can be changed. Any kind of change to FF will make PvP turn back into 4gate v 4gate. If, however, the gateway build times were changed, then it would be possible to use defenders advantage to hold without FF's.
In response to the gateway unit build time change, maybe WG research reduces build time along with allowing the transition to warp gates, which will increase build time. Then we don't have to worry about 2gate becoming an OP strategy.
How would you guys feel about a ff that reduced unit movement speed, like an AoE conc shell? Or maybe something to do with high ground vision... there's so much room for cool battle effect spells that could be put in instead.
Adjusting warpgates like that would obviously require a significant rebalancing, so unfortunately it will never come to fruition. I think it would really make the Protoss race more enjoyable though.
Perhaps units can only be warped in to power fields that connect eventually to a Nexus? Only way to warp in units at a forward pylon is to chrono boost the pylon. Just makes it slightly more difficult to use proxy pylons without mucking with base defense.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Perhaps units can only be warped in to power fields that connect eventually to a Nexus? Only way to warp in units at a forward pylon is to chrono boost the pylon. Just makes it slightly more difficult to use proxy pylons without mucking with base defense.
...but why? How does this fix the problem of Protoss being an incredibly boring race to play and watch? If anything, this would take away some of what makes P interesting.
I come across various lists on why Protoss is frustrating to play against, and one issue I see is their ability to reenforce and counterattack extremely quickly, making it hard to move out vs them. I have no idea how other issues could be fixed without running into the balance clusterfuck. And with the mothership core in HOTS providing players with more nexus energy than they know how to deal with, it just makes the protoss macro mechanic require a few extra clicks for doing advanced stuff.
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
But it fixes a problem that's not a problem...no one is complaining about warp-in because it makes Protoss hard to play against. The big complaint with Protoss right now is that it's just an uninteresting race. It's not terribly unbalanced, it's not winning every tournament...it's just boring. It's meta is stangant, and people just aren't seeing any way out of that meta trap using the current racial mechanics.
Even Blizzard seems to be having trouble working around the current mechanics to make the race interesting and less stagnant in HotS.
But it fixes a problem that's not a problem...no one is complaining about warp-in because it makes Protoss hard to play against. The big complaint with Protoss right now is that it's just an uninteresting race. It's not terribly unbalanced, it's not winning every tournament...it's just boring. It's meta is stangant, and people just aren't seeing any way out of that meta trap using the current racial mechanics.
Even Blizzard seems to be having trouble working around the current mechanics to make the race interesting and less stagnant in HotS.
I think a lot of people hate how warp in affects battles, especially lategame, and would love to see them changed for that reason
protoss as a whole isn't boring to watch or play, there's some real cool shit in there, hence why i switched (though i'll prob. be playing z in hots anyway T.T)
Recall makes a big difference. But it's one of those things that'll take time for people to learn and utilize (i.e., pros need to exploit it and then that knowledge trickles downstream over months to everyone else).
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
Recall makes a big difference. But it's one of those things that'll take time for people to learn and utilize (i.e., pros need to exploit it and then that knowledge trickles downstream over months to everyone else).
Grubby is the only player I've seen actually use recall to good effect.
Recall makes a big difference. But it's one of those things that'll take time for people to learn and utilize (i.e., pros need to exploit it and then that knowledge trickles downstream over months to everyone else).
Grubby is the only player I've seen actually use recall to good effect.
Kiwikaki had that play where he sniped all the hatcheries with Blink Stalkers and then recalled out.
I forget which tournament. I think it was a TSL. But everyone went ZOMG when it happened.
Recall makes a big difference. But it's one of those things that'll take time for people to learn and utilize (i.e., pros need to exploit it and then that knowledge trickles downstream over months to everyone else).
Grubby is the only player I've seen actually use recall to good effect.
Yeah mamacore recall requires strong knowledge of timings to use. I don't expect people to use exploit it extensively until people put in the time to understand HotS timings and such.
I don't agree that protoss is stagnant, boring, or handicapped in any way right now. What I think is true is that the toolset of Protoss falls in the high-risk, high-reward bucket:
+ Forcefield allows you to get away with a lot with little, but if you fuck them up you die.
+ Warpgate allows you to launch high-damage attacks at the cost of large amounts of resources (comparatively speaking) if they fail.
+ Mamaship recall is similar to forcefield in that you can do guaranteed damage, but the fuck-up cost is high.
Which leads people down certain, narrow play styles and can be frustrating to play or play against.
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
I think my favourite example of why PvZ lategame is terrible right now is that game between HerO and...some Korean Zerg, on Entombed Valley. HerO spent the entire game harassing the Zerg on multiple fronts with two warp prisms perpetually zipping around the map. He killed a million workers and most of the tech, mined out his entire side of the map, but it didn't matter because the Zerg was sitting a broodlord/infestor army on top of a giant wall of spines. He had to engage it eventually and when he did he missed his vortex and lost the battle and the game. That was an hour and a half of my life that I'll never get back.
+2
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
pvp doesn't seem that stagnant to me. pvz, yes. recall alone might change this, though. if it expands the portion of the game in which protoss can be aggressive (by say, letting them attack early without being all in, it means they can slow zerg down and open more and more such timings) then that delays the oh so difficult to deal with Z lategame and makes the match up reasonable.
PvP hasn't really changed in the last few months. It's still the same ol' robo vs blink robo vs phoenix openings into either losing the game immediately or expanding into infinity colossus wars.
+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I typed up a long response disagreeing only to realize I agree, more or less.
I enjoy it more than pvz, probably just because there is less of it. so tired of pvz.
Why does pvp get so much hate but not tvt? TvT bores the crap out of me. Tank lines and marines 9 out of 10 times. Occasionally you get some cool drops, but more times then not the drops don't even do enough damage to justify themselves.
I think I'd rather watch pvp, cause at least the game doesn't drag on for so long.
fatalspoons on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
drops win games all the time in tvt
also because it's so much about positioning and area control and stuff like that. colossus positioning involves about 5 seconds as the battle is starting. tank positioning is a methodical process that builds over time.
the tvt on daybreak, mkp vs mvp last night, shows this. because of area control w/ tanks and a couple of drops mvp goes from down a base to up a base because mkp just can't get in and do damage when he wants to (specifically because he wants to counter when he realizes the drop in his base is gonna fuck him up). mvp took the forward base as his third because it allowed him to get into position to defend the usual third more easily and then he took that as his 4th.
also early game tvt has more variety than any other matchup imo. it's insane.
Meh. Maybe I don't watch enough tvt, but seems as though the matches I tend to catch end up being long tank battles that eventually devolve into base trades.
fatalspoons on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Oh wow, I just read a cool idea for Protoss. Reduce gateway build times or something like that, and then make warpgates increase the build time. Then there is an actual trade-off for being able to warp in units anywhere on the map.
Oh fuck
that is sexy smart
and might create some cool gateway/warpgate micro where you build out of gateways to macro, but then switch to warpgates to reinforce.
I love this idea.
I MADE A POST ABOUT THIS EXACT IDEA LIKE EIGHTEEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO
AND NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD THEN
I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL
+3
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I even suggested the gateway/warpgate switching as strategy that could arise from the change
Oh wow, I just read a cool idea for Protoss. Reduce gateway build times or something like that, and then make warpgates increase the build time. Then there is an actual trade-off for being able to warp in units anywhere on the map.
Oh fuck
that is sexy smart
and might create some cool gateway/warpgate micro where you build out of gateways to macro, but then switch to warpgates to reinforce.
I love this idea.
I MADE A POST ABOUT THIS EXACT IDEA LIKE EIGHTEEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO
AND NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD THEN
I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL
Nobody want's to agree with a guy who wears a monocle
+2
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Oh wow, I just read a cool idea for Protoss. Reduce gateway build times or something like that, and then make warpgates increase the build time. Then there is an actual trade-off for being able to warp in units anywhere on the map.
Oh fuck
that is sexy smart
and might create some cool gateway/warpgate micro where you build out of gateways to macro, but then switch to warpgates to reinforce.
I love this idea.
I MADE A POST ABOUT THIS EXACT IDEA LIKE EIGHTEEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO
AND NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD THEN
I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL
I thought it was meeks but I knew someone had mentioned it
oddly I thought about it just last night, no joke.
Posts
The tournament is called MLG v. KeSPA? Who in the fuck thought they weren't going to invite a majority of KeSPA players?
It's like people's logic center turns off when they talk about KeSPA. That TL thread is a fucking cess pool of band wagoning, and no one even knows any facts! All we have is a FXOBoss statement (surprise surprise, FXOBoss stiring up shit), and Slasher trying to stir the pot.
If anything, this makes ESF look bush league. They had to have known the parameters of the tournament when they agreed to it, but now they aren't satisfactory? But, as we can see from TL, the community will buy just about any load of shit provided it's anti-KeSPA.
If you only look at the first page, it's only natural that you're going to see a lot of gut reaction posts and low quality one liners. Those are the quickest posts to make.
I only knew it was called MLG vs. Proleague. I had no idea that Proleague = KeSPA.
Again, it's like people's ability to process logical, rational, thought turns off when KeSPA is involved.
There's a lot of people complaining about the 8 direct seeds for the Fall Championship group play, and that's a totally fair complaint imo. This is set up as a show match, not a qualifier.
I mean, I absolutely agree that people are being unfairly harsh because it's KeSPA benefiting from it. Reverse the situations and people probably wouldn't care. But I don't think it's 100% anti-Kespa. Maybe 2:1.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or serious. Did you really not know that Proleague = KeSPA? Proleague has been KeSPA's league since KeSPA's inception.
My only interaction with Brood War was playing Use Map Settings, and knowing that people in Korea really, really liked it. All I know about KeSPA is that they have a bad reputation for treating their players and everyone who isn't themselves like shit.
So, no. I had no idea that Proleague was a synonym for KeSPA.
edit: I played Brood War campaign too.
In response to the gateway unit build time change, maybe WG research reduces build time along with allowing the transition to warp gates, which will increase build time. Then we don't have to worry about 2gate becoming an OP strategy.
How would you guys feel about a ff that reduced unit movement speed, like an AoE conc shell? Or maybe something to do with high ground vision... there's so much room for cool battle effect spells that could be put in instead.
Flamma inferno
Igne cutis
...but why? How does this fix the problem of Protoss being an incredibly boring race to play and watch? If anything, this would take away some of what makes P interesting.
Even Blizzard seems to be having trouble working around the current mechanics to make the race interesting and less stagnant in HotS.
because bitbybit is playing again
!!!
I think a lot of people hate how warp in affects battles, especially lategame, and would love to see them changed for that reason
not that that's the only problem with protoss
it's just
man
the bad parts
are really god damn bad
like the entire pvz matchup
Grubby is the only player I've seen actually use recall to good effect.
Kiwikaki had that play where he sniped all the hatcheries with Blink Stalkers and then recalled out.
I forget which tournament. I think it was a TSL. But everyone went ZOMG when it happened.
Yeah mamacore recall requires strong knowledge of timings to use. I don't expect people to use exploit it extensively until people put in the time to understand HotS timings and such.
I don't agree that protoss is stagnant, boring, or handicapped in any way right now. What I think is true is that the toolset of Protoss falls in the high-risk, high-reward bucket:
+ Forcefield allows you to get away with a lot with little, but if you fuck them up you die.
+ Warpgate allows you to launch high-damage attacks at the cost of large amounts of resources (comparatively speaking) if they fail.
+ Mamaship recall is similar to forcefield in that you can do guaranteed damage, but the fuck-up cost is high.
Which leads people down certain, narrow play styles and can be frustrating to play or play against.
I enjoy it more than pvz, probably just because there is less of it. so tired of pvz.
I think I'd rather watch pvp, cause at least the game doesn't drag on for so long.
also because it's so much about positioning and area control and stuff like that. colossus positioning involves about 5 seconds as the battle is starting. tank positioning is a methodical process that builds over time.
the tvt on daybreak, mkp vs mvp last night, shows this. because of area control w/ tanks and a couple of drops mvp goes from down a base to up a base because mkp just can't get in and do damage when he wants to (specifically because he wants to counter when he realizes the drop in his base is gonna fuck him up). mvp took the forward base as his third because it allowed him to get into position to defend the usual third more easily and then he took that as his 4th.
also early game tvt has more variety than any other matchup imo. it's insane.
I MADE A POST ABOUT THIS EXACT IDEA LIKE EIGHTEEN FUCKING MONTHS AGO
AND NOBODY THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD THEN
I FUCKING HATE YOU ALL
Nobody want's to agree with a guy who wears a monocle
I thought it was meeks but I knew someone had mentioned it
oddly I thought about it just last night, no joke.
glad it was you :P
I think I'm lucky, because I enjoy watching every match up.
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