Sten: Why are you here?
Leliana: What do you mean?
Sten: Women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting.
Leliana: I have no idea how to answer this...
Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.
Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?
Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?
Leliana: What are you talking about? They don't wish to be men.
Sten: They shouldn't. That can only lead to frustration.
Leliana: Sten...no, never mind. Let's drop this.
Even if Sten would eventually show approval for such a position, which I doubt, it's still very telling about the wonderful close-minded teachings of the Qun.
0
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
Anyway, I don't think Morrigan has been lying to me so far, but I'll talk more about her and Flemeth when I kill the old woman (and in-character I have decided it's inevitable; I'll elaborate on why later). This may be a while; I am not even close to strong enough.
Instead I am gonna talk about sex.
I can't help comparing Dragon Age to Mass Effect; I'm a big Mass Effect fan. In particular I end up comparing Dragon Age to the first Mass Effect; they're both relatively contained stories for what they are, etc. They're introducing us to these universes and these people.
Anyway so I banged Zevran yesterday and I couldn't help, a few hours later, comparing that sex scene to the equivalent scenes in ME1. In ME1 the direction of the sex scenes places visual emphasis on the outline of the bodies, and all actual eroticism is mostly implied; we see the curve of a back, a hand on a thigh, a face pressed against a neck. It's all rather artsy and ambient as sex scenes go
In Dragon Age, though
The direction places most of the focus on the expression of the characters involved, a more confident and more immediately grabbing approach. Zevran himself wasn't a big focus save as a physical presence who framed my Warden, and almost all of the attention was on her, particularly on her face, and all I could think was "Holy shit she looks like she is enjoying herself." It wasn't any more explicit than Mass Effect but it managed to convey a heightened sense of eroticism - or maybe intimacy, I guess - in establishing sex as a very personal connection that your Warden gets lost in for a time. And this scene was longer, too.
The differences in how they approach sex are interesting, and I think I prefer Dragon Age's by far (though ME's approach to sex improved immensely in the sequels)
Although, and I need to say this because it bugs me every time I see it:
Whoever's in charge of making this call (not blaming BioWare or EA, or any one person, but somewhere in there the decision is getting made and it's wrong) needs to stop being afraid of boobs. You spend all this time with very intimate, close-up images of my Warden enjoying sex, and she's WEARING A BRA THE WHOLE TIME. I know some ladies wear bras when they're doin' it but come on
End result:
Dragon Age is the second game (after ME3) that I think would be improved by a very tastefully applied nudity mod
This is interesting to me because the only thing I thought when watching the "sex scene" in Dragon Age was "holy mother of god this animation is horrifically awful and this music makes me want to rip off my ears and jesus why hasn't it ended yet"
This is interesting to me because the only thing I thought when watching the "sex scene" in Dragon Age was "holy mother of god this animation is horrifically awful and this music makes me want to rip off my ears and jesus why hasn't it ended yet"
Yeah, uh, DA scenes are the worst. I try to keep a straight face but that music is unbelievably cheesy and then the whole thing is just awkwardly set up and there's that one part where the warden's facial expression makes me burst into laughter try as I might to contain it. Those scenes are bizarre and stilted in any Bioware formulation so it's best that they leave it as brief and implied as possible instead of producing such luridly embarrassing scenes as Origins exemplifies.
My main thoughts during my characters romance scene were "Why are we getting it on in front of the entire camp?" and "Did we honestly just walk over to Morrigan's tent to have sex in front of her? Why?"
Except that one time they invaded Thedas which they will inevitably do again. Gotta spread dat Qun.
And I disagree, brainwashing is not as black and white as that. Peeps are indoctrinated until they agree with the Qun and will defend it to the death. The indoctrination is key here, no matter if they seem to coherently and rationally defend the Qun afterwards. Doesn't make it any less of a brainwash.
The distinguishing factor of indoctrination is that you refuse or are unable to critically examine your positions. You can't be coherent and rational towards opposing arguments if you're indoctrinated.
And yeah, the qunari do plan to spread the qun across the world. That's a long term goal though, they don't have the time, resources, or want to hunt down every single person that wants to leave.
They can present those coherent arguments because they've been brainwashed with them over and over. That does not mean they actually evaluate those arguments and viewpoints critically. While they had coherent arguments in favour of the Qun, the Qunari I talked to seemed to dismiss any counter-arguments straight away. I doubt there was any critical examination of them afterwards.
I mean, seriously
Re-education camps.
You're just defining any decision to follow the qun as "brainwashing", no matter how they reached that decision.
I'm curious, -Tal, why are you ignoring the fact that the Qunari invaded , slaughtered thousands, captured more, and putting the adults in death camps where they work in mines until they die while their children are sent to re-education camps? All without any kind of provocation. The first anyone in Thedas had heard of Qunari was when their ships landed in Par Vollen and they started doing this shit.
Because that's just a normal friday night for Cerberus :P
Except that one time they invaded Thedas which they will inevitably do again. Gotta spread dat Qun.
And I disagree, brainwashing is not as black and white as that. Peeps are indoctrinated until they agree with the Qun and will defend it to the death. The indoctrination is key here, no matter if they seem to coherently and rationally defend the Qun afterwards. Doesn't make it any less of a brainwash.
The distinguishing factor of indoctrination is that you refuse or are unable to critically examine your positions. You can't be coherent and rational towards opposing arguments if you're indoctrinated.
And yeah, the qunari do plan to spread the qun across the world. That's a long term goal though, they don't have the time, resources, or want to hunt down every single person that wants to leave.
They can present those coherent arguments because they've been brainwashed with them over and over. That does not mean they actually evaluate those arguments and viewpoints critically. While they had coherent arguments in favour of the Qun, the Qunari I talked to seemed to dismiss any counter-arguments straight away. I doubt there was any critical examination of them afterwards.
I mean, seriously
Re-education camps.
You're just defining any decision to follow the qun as "brainwashing", no matter how they reached that decision.
I'm curious, -Tal, why are you ignoring the fact that the Qunari invaded , slaughtered thousands, captured more, and putting the adults in death camps where they work in mines until they die while their children are sent to re-education camps? All without any kind of provocation. The first anyone in Thedas had heard of Qunari was when their ships landed in Par Vollen and they started doing this shit.
Because that's just a normal friday night for Cerberus :P
Yeah, but at least Cerberus provided the Normandy II and lash/smash powers. All I got from the Qunari was Sten, a warrior who couldn't get two specializations. He's directly inferior to Ohgren, drunk dwarf who's wife left him for a rock and she turned lesbian after marrying him!
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
+2
L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
Sten has a banter with every non-Shale female member where he is like "y u want be man?" At them
I bet if Sten found out Shale was a chick, his head would explode.
Sten: Shale, do you wish you were a man?
Shale: A what? A soft, squishy creature? I think not!
Sten: That is...unfortunate.
Shale: Why would you wish to be a soft squishy creature?
Sten: I do no...*SQUISH*
Shale: Hmm. I thought I saw one of those flying evil creatures right here. I must have been mistaken.
Sten: Why are you here?
Leliana: What do you mean?
Sten: Women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting.
Leliana: I have no idea how to answer this...
Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.
Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?
Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?
Leliana: What are you talking about? They don't wish to be men.
Sten: They shouldn't. That can only lead to frustration.
Leliana: Sten...no, never mind. Let's drop this.
Even if Sten would eventually show approval for such a position, which I doubt, it's still very telling about the wonderful close-minded teachings of the Qun.
Sten: Why are you here?
Wynne: I beg your pardon?
Sten: Women are artisans, or merchants. Or farmers, though you don't seem particularly... earthy. They have no place in war.
Wynne: I can't even begin to tell you what's wrong with that idea.
Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.
Wynne: I do not understand. Do the Qunari have no female mages? No female warriors?
Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?
Wynne: Do you believe I wish to be a man?
Sten: You cannot wish to be a man. It will lead you only to frustration.
Wynne: Hmm. I believe this discussion does the same. Let us speak no more of it, Sten.
Sten: As you wish.
Sten: Why are you here?
Morrigan: Excuse me?
Sten: Obviously you are no priestess. But shouldn't you be... running a shop, or a farm somewhere, rather then fighting?
Morrigan: You think to tell me my place, Qunari? You are very brave.
Sten: It is not done.
Morrigan: But it is done. Do not be such a blind fool.
Sten: I speak the truth. It is not I who am blind.
Morrigan: Look around you, then. you see women throughout this land, fighters and mages both.
Sten: That has yet to be proven.
Morrigan: Which? That they fight? Or that they are female?
Sten: Either.
Morrigan: So I am not truly a woman to you? Hmm. 'Tis good to know.
In short, Sten made me side with Morrigan on something. Fuck Sten.
Though it does raise the horrifying question of "if they chain up and cut out the tongue of their male mages, what do they do with the women ones?" unless mages are just seen as "mage" and not "male" or "female"
My main thoughts during my characters romance scene were "Why are we getting it on in front of the entire camp?" and "Did we honestly just walk over to Morrigan's tent to have sex in front of her? Why?"
Those were my thoughts exactly. "Hey guys, would you all mind taking five and wearing ye old headphones or something?"
There's a bit of sexual tension in that Morrigan-Sten conversation
MorriganxSten OTP
Morrigan: So are you going to continue staring at me as if I am covered in eels?
Sten: Eels would be something.
Morrigan: Prudery! How charming. I expected paranoia. This is much better. I prefer to be stared at lustfully, if at all.
Sten: Keep trying, then.
Morrigan: Oh? Then shall I demonstrate an act or two? And you may tell me hot or cold?
Sten: I'll save time. Cold.
Morrigan: (Chuckles) You are a tease.
Morrigan: So have you changed your mind, Sten? I dream about you and I, if you must know.
Sten: You would, even were I interested in a small thing like you. The Qunari act is... unpleasant.
Morrigan: Unpleasant? Unpleasant how? Now I really am interested.
Sten: Deadly.
Morrigan: And what if I didn't mind? I enjoy a little... animation.
Sten: You'd be less animated afterward.
Morrigan: It sounds as if I am arousing your passions already, my dear Sten.
Sten: Parshaara. Why do you pester me?
Morrigan: (Chuckles) Because 'tis amusing, that is why.
Morrigan: You seem so deep in thought, my dear Sten. Thinking of me, perhaps? The two of us, together at last?
Sten: Yes.
Morrigan: I... what did you say?
Sten: You will need armor, I think. And a helmet. And something to bite down on. How strong are human teeth?
Morrigan: How strong are my teeth?
Sten: Qunari teeth can bite through leather, wood, even metal given time. Which reminds me, I may try to nuzzle.
Morrigan: Nuzzle?
Sten: If that happens, you'll need an iron pry bar. Heat it in a fire, first, or it may not get my attention.
Morrigan: Perhaps it would be better if we did not proceed.
Sten: Are you certain? If it will satisfy your curiosity...
Morrigan: Yes. Yes, I think it is best.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Qunari LI for DA3.
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
This is interesting to me because the only thing I thought when watching the "sex scene" in Dragon Age was "holy mother of god this animation is horrifically awful and this music makes me want to rip off my ears and jesus why hasn't it ended yet"
Yeah, uh, DA scenes are the worst. I try to keep a straight face but that music is unbelievably cheesy and then the whole thing is just awkwardly set up and there's that one part where the warden's facial expression makes me burst into laughter try as I might to contain it. Those scenes are bizarre and stilted in any Bioware formulation so it's best that they leave it as brief and implied as possible instead of producing such luridly embarrassing scenes as Origins exemplifies.
No lie, I'd side with Tevinters against the Qunari in a heartbeat.
Also, awkward DA sex scenes, yeah... they're certainly...something.
Anyway, I don't think Morrigan has been lying to me so far, but I'll talk more about her and Flemeth when I kill the old woman (and in-character I have decided it's inevitable; I'll elaborate on why later). This may be a while; I am not even close to strong enough.
Instead I am gonna talk about sex.
I can't help comparing Dragon Age to Mass Effect; I'm a big Mass Effect fan. In particular I end up comparing Dragon Age to the first Mass Effect; they're both relatively contained stories for what they are, etc. They're introducing us to these universes and these people.
Anyway so I banged Zevran yesterday and I couldn't help, a few hours later, comparing that sex scene to the equivalent scenes in ME1. In ME1 the direction of the sex scenes places visual emphasis on the outline of the bodies, and all actual eroticism is mostly implied; we see the curve of a back, a hand on a thigh, a face pressed against a neck. It's all rather artsy and ambient as sex scenes go
In Dragon Age, though
The direction places most of the focus on the expression of the characters involved, a more confident and more immediately grabbing approach. Zevran himself wasn't a big focus save as a physical presence who framed my Warden, and almost all of the attention was on her, particularly on her face, and all I could think was "Holy shit she looks like she is enjoying herself." It wasn't any more explicit than Mass Effect but it managed to convey a heightened sense of eroticism - or maybe intimacy, I guess - in establishing sex as a very personal connection that your Warden gets lost in for a time. And this scene was longer, too.
The differences in how they approach sex are interesting, and I think I prefer Dragon Age's by far (though ME's approach to sex improved immensely in the sequels)
Although, and I need to say this because it bugs me every time I see it:
Whoever's in charge of making this call (not blaming BioWare or EA, or any one person, but somewhere in there the decision is getting made and it's wrong) needs to stop being afraid of boobs. You spend all this time with very intimate, close-up images of my Warden enjoying sex, and she's WEARING A BRA THE WHOLE TIME. I know some ladies wear bras when they're doin' it but come on
End result:
Dragon Age is the second game (after ME3) that I think would be improved by a very tastefully applied nudity mod
This is interesting to me because the only thing I thought when watching the "sex scene" in Dragon Age was "holy mother of god this animation is horrifically awful and this music makes me want to rip off my ears and jesus why hasn't it ended yet"
I guess
I guess I just tend to dissect things a lot, and the portrayal of sex in art is always interesting
Also re: Sten
Sten is a dickbag and if he says something else about my sword/womanness combo I'm going ot break my foot off in his ass
But he's not stupid
I got his sword back through intimidation, murder, and willingness to rip people's arms off. If he ever doubted his convictions about me, he would not say so; if he ever decided I was not a woman, he damn sure wouldn't say so, given how I have demonstrated I'd be able to kill him
And I can live with that
If any qunari later on in the series give me lip, though, there's going to be some mother fucking blood
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Though it does raise the horrifying question of "if they chain up and cut out the tongue of their male mages, what do they do with the women ones?" unless mages are just seen as "mage" and not "male" or "female"
For some reason I can't find the exact tweet, but when I asked David Gaider this question, he basically said there are no female mages, mages are only 'bas' ('thing', I think?).
Though to be clear on something earlier, I wasn't saying the sex scene was good, I was just saying there's a huge disconnect between the very explicit tone of it and my Warden wearing a bra
It made the scene worse than it would have been otherwise, and according to Alistair, who I was apparently screwing Zevran directly in front of, the scene was pretty bad
Like, Traynor-showering-in-her-underwear bad
0
ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
You guys and your Qunari hate.
Sten was the best DA:O companion, the Arishok was a great man-ox and Sarebaas did the right thing.
Embrace the Qun, as I did, and you'll understand.
+1
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I agree with you Wyborn, in terms of concept the DA love scenes are more explicit, and it's more jarring to see the undies. They really should have just gone all the way, or used strategic body positioning to hide the nekkid or something.
I'm fine with sex scenes; if that's what you want to do with your game, fine. Sex has a place in art, certainly, and I do like that sex is just a component of relationships in Dragon Age
The fact that he comes across as eminently smoochable, and has good dialogue as relates to that, and is so super cute, means that at least something about these relationships was handled well, even if it's just him being attractive
Posts
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Yes, but...
You know, this conversation is starting to feel strangely familiar.
Even if Sten would eventually show approval for such a position, which I doubt, it's still very telling about the wonderful close-minded teachings of the Qun.
This is interesting to me because the only thing I thought when watching the "sex scene" in Dragon Age was "holy mother of god this animation is horrifically awful and this music makes me want to rip off my ears and jesus why hasn't it ended yet"
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Seems to me like he does both.
Aliens vs. Predator.
Yeah, uh, DA scenes are the worst. I try to keep a straight face but that music is unbelievably cheesy and then the whole thing is just awkwardly set up and there's that one part where the warden's facial expression makes me burst into laughter try as I might to contain it. Those scenes are bizarre and stilted in any Bioware formulation so it's best that they leave it as brief and implied as possible instead of producing such luridly embarrassing scenes as Origins exemplifies.
I bet if Sten found out Shale was a chick, his head would explode.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Because that's just a normal friday night for Cerberus :P
Yeah, but at least Cerberus provided the Normandy II and lash/smash powers. All I got from the Qunari was Sten, a warrior who couldn't get two specializations. He's directly inferior to Ohgren, drunk dwarf who's wife left him for a rock and she turned lesbian after marrying him!
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Sten: Shale, do you wish you were a man?
Shale: A what? A soft, squishy creature? I think not!
Sten: That is...unfortunate.
Shale: Why would you wish to be a soft squishy creature?
Sten: I do no...*SQUISH*
Shale: Hmm. I thought I saw one of those flying evil creatures right here. I must have been mistaken.
In short, Sten made me side with Morrigan on something. Fuck Sten.
Though it does raise the horrifying question of "if they chain up and cut out the tongue of their male mages, what do they do with the women ones?" unless mages are just seen as "mage" and not "male" or "female"
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Those were my thoughts exactly. "Hey guys, would you all mind taking five and wearing ye old headphones or something?"
MorriganxSten OTP
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
No lie, I'd side with Tevinters against the Qunari in a heartbeat.
Also, awkward DA sex scenes, yeah... they're certainly...something.
I guess
I guess I just tend to dissect things a lot, and the portrayal of sex in art is always interesting
Also re: Sten
Sten is a dickbag and if he says something else about my sword/womanness combo I'm going ot break my foot off in his ass
But he's not stupid
I got his sword back through intimidation, murder, and willingness to rip people's arms off. If he ever doubted his convictions about me, he would not say so; if he ever decided I was not a woman, he damn sure wouldn't say so, given how I have demonstrated I'd be able to kill him
And I can live with that
If any qunari later on in the series give me lip, though, there's going to be some mother fucking blood
For some reason I can't find the exact tweet, but when I asked David Gaider this question, he basically said there are no female mages, mages are only 'bas' ('thing', I think?).
Between the qunari and the humans this world is awful to the max
Only -Tal likes them and remember -Tal is also a Cerberus apologist.
It made the scene worse than it would have been otherwise, and according to Alistair, who I was apparently screwing Zevran directly in front of, the scene was pretty bad
Like, Traynor-showering-in-her-underwear bad
Sten was the best DA:O companion, the Arishok was a great man-ox and Sarebaas did the right thing.
Embrace the Qun, as I did, and you'll understand.
But they need to be handled very well
I'm sorry
I can't agree with a man who says that Alistair is not just eminently smoochable, and he has a haircut which gives +5 to dreaminess
see Varric
Dis. agree.
(on the contrary, Varric would be way radder if he allowed you to smooch him)
If I wasn't allowed to have Alistair's babies, there would be no justice
...
okay well...four is better than two so shut up
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I don't want to smooch him
I just want to run my fingers through his chest hair
mmmmm.
Then you better not