No -Tal, I instantly got that you are saying the characters I most deeply enjoyed out of any of Bioware's games are shit. You don't have to explain like I'm a dummy!
(Garrus, Tali, Alistair, Zevran, Leliana, and Thane 4 LYFE)
No -Tal, I instantly got that you are saying the characters I most deeply enjoyed out of any of Bioware's games are shit. You don't have to explain like I'm a dummy!
(Garrus, Tali, Alistair, Zevran, Leliana, and Thane 4 LYFE)
I will not brook any insinuation that Aveline is not the literal best.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
No -Tal, I instantly got that you are saying the characters I most deeply enjoyed out of any of Bioware's games are shit. You don't have to explain like I'm a dummy!
(Garrus, Tali, Alistair, Zevran, Leliana, and Thane 4 LYFE)
I will not brook any insinuation that Aveline is not the literal best.
Did you just say Isabella isn't the best? I will fight you
No -Tal, I instantly got that you are saying the characters I most deeply enjoyed out of any of Bioware's games are shit. You don't have to explain like I'm a dummy!
(Garrus, Tali, Alistair, Zevran, Leliana, and Thane 4 LYFE)
I will not brook any insinuation that Aveline is not the literal best.
Did you just say Isabella isn't the best? I will fight you
Isabela's the best, no doubt, but Aveline is too, and Aveline's unlikely friendship with Isabela makes her even bester.
Okay, I spoilered the response for spoilers and because it's long. Enjoy.
Mordin is older then you, a Salarian which would make sex even more awkwardly incompatible (not to mention their penchant for mating agreements) and he seems like more of a career over romance kind of guy.
Kasumi never got over Keiji, and likes characters like Jacob.
Grunt is a one dimensional krogan; not much there to even romance. Wrex would have been a better thing to put in this list because he is both strong, deeper in character/motivation, and unromancable.
Legion is an AI in a robotic shell. He only attained full individual awareness just prior to dying, and was never interested and at best perplexed by organic mating in general.
Zaeed is a one dimensional gun toting badass, who simply fills a gap in the crew for specific mercenary skills, and is not an especially deep character. He's also old and not much of a looker anymore.
Javik is millenia old, a lot more alien in mannerisms and skillsets then aliens of Shepard's cycle, and there is once again a question of incompatible physiology and desire. Javik is basically space Hitler with few redeeming qualities who exists to contradict Liara's romanticized notions of the Protheans being benevolent scholar kings and not warmongering imperialists. For drama.
Vega is an okay guy and I was under the (I suppose) mistaken impression that he could be romanced by one or both Shepards. If not, I still don't really see what qualities about him make him 'strong'. I mean, he has to ask Shepard a lot about the burdens of the N7 program and leadership in general because he failed to keep his squad alive in the past and he regrets that.
EDI is with Joker and is also an AI, who is still gradually trying to understand concepts like love and courtship that she refers to Shepard, the stronger character, over Joker for answers.
Sten is a Qunari. Even if they are physically compatible, the height issue would make it awkward, it would be extremely difficult to manage a long term relationship of any description given Sten's commitments, and the Warden has great difficulty understanding such a foreign, all encompassing philosophy which runs parallel to what they've been taught in the Andrastian faith and which has been proven by bitter history to be a violent clash of cultures.
Dog is a fucking Dog. I don't even know why you would put him/her on the list. Obviously disgusting and incompatible.
Shale is made of rock, she is a dwarven female who might not be particularly inclined to any race or gender anymore after centuries of being a golem, and she doesn't have much respect or love for organics.
Varric is probably the only strong character on your list I can agree with because he has business to attend to first before pleasure, and he knows the stakes of getting into a relationship with an individual as dangerous/charismatic/eventually rich as Hawke. He might not be into humans or homosexuality if your male. He might be a guy who likes a girl in every port and prefers to keep Hawke seperate from that out of respect for Hawke. It is sad, because he's a great character, but it makes sense.
Aveline was married when you meet her, loses her husband traumatically in the opening of the game, and takes a while to overcome that; a normal human response to grief. She isn't really going to run into your arms. And she might be like Varric, more into other things and more respecting you that having romantic attraction to ethier gender of Hawke. And of course she meets that guard guy and gets into a relationship with him eventually so she ends up taken again. I wouldn't call her strong because of how she handles that romance with him and how blunt she is when it comes to decision making and law enforcement.
Bethany is your sister. Once again, it's kind of hard to justify this without it being creepy and wrong and potentially damaging to the gene pool. And I'd hardly call her a strong character given her emotional response to the Templar's crap. And she spends most of the latter stages of the game in Templar jail.
Carver is a DLC character wrapped up in his own stuff and for all we know already betrothed in an arranged marriage or something. I don't know as much about him so I can't comment but he doesn't strike me as deep or romance material, and Bioware was too lazy to make him one after the fact because he's DLC.
EDIT: Got Carver mixed up with Sebastian, that Noble archer guy. Carver is your brother, so he's the same as Bethany in regards to sex and isn't very strong because he's always relying on the elder Hawke sibling for guidance with life decisions and can't be easily reasoned with when he gets some idea or other stuck in his thick warrior head.
Corehealer on
+1
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
1. Let's talk about what makes an effective romance in interactive media.
2. Man, that Morrigan, I bet she got spiders.
3. You know, 2H weapons are actually....
4. Sten, rip his arms off.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Okay, I spoilered the response for spoilers and because it's long. Enjoy.
Mordin is older then you, a Salarian which would make sex even more awkwardly incompatible (not to mention their penchant for mating agreements) and he seems like more of a career over romance kind of guy.
Kasumi never got over Keiji, and likes characters like Jacob.
Grunt is a one dimensional krogan; not much there to even romance. Wrex would have been a better thing to put in this list because he is both strong, deeper in character/motivation, and unromancable.
Legion is an AI in a robotic shell. He only attained full individual awareness just prior to dying, and was never interested and at best perplexed by organic mating in general.
Zaeed is a one dimensional gun toting badass, who simply fills a gap in the crew for specific mercenary skills, and is not an especially deep character. He's also old and not much of a looker anymore.
Javik is millenia old, a lot more alien in mannerisms and skillsets then aliens of Shepard's cycle, and there is once again a question of incompatible physiology and desire. Javik is basically space Hitler with few redeeming qualities who exists to contradict Liara's romanticized notions of the Protheans being benevolent scholar kings and not warmongering imperialists. For drama.
Vega is an okay guy and I was under the (I suppose) mistaken impression that he could be romanced by one or both Shepards. If not, I still don't really see what qualities about him make him 'strong'. I mean, he has to ask Shepard a lot about the burdens of the N7 program and leadership in general because he failed to keep his squad alive in the past and he regrets that.
EDI is with Joker and is also an AI, who is still gradually trying to understand concepts like love and courtship that she refers to Shepard, the stronger character, over Joker for answers.
Sten is a Qunari. Even if they are physically compatible, the height issue would make it awkward, it would be extremely difficult to manage a long term relationship of any description given Sten's commitments, and the Warden has great difficulty understanding such a foreign, all encompassing philosophy which runs parallel to what they've been taught in the Andrastian faith and which has been proven by bitter history to be a violent clash of cultures.
Dog is a fucking Dog. I don't even know why you would put him/her on the list. Obviously disgusting and incompatible.
Shale is made of rock, she is a dwarven female who might not be particularly inclined to any race or gender anymore after centuries of being a golem, and she doesn't have much respect or love for organics.
Varric is probably the only strong character on your list I can agree with because he has business to attend to first before pleasure, and he knows the stakes of getting into a relationship with an individual as dangerous/charismatic/eventually rich as Hawke. He might not be into humans or homosexuality if your male. He might be a guy who likes a girl in every port and prefers to keep Hawke seperate from that out of respect for Hawke. It is sad, because he's a great character, but it makes sense.
Aveline was married when you meet her, loses her husband traumatically in the opening of the game, and takes a while to overcome that; a normal human response to grief. She isn't really going to run into your arms. And she might be like Varric, more into other things and more respecting you that having romantic attraction to ethier gender of Hawke. And of course she meets that guard guy and gets into a relationship with him eventually so she ends up taken again. I wouldn't call her strong because of how she handles that romance with him and how blunt she is when it comes to decision making and law enforcement.
Bethany is your sister. Once again, it's kind of hard to justify this without it being creepy and wrong and potentially damaging to the gene pool. And I'd hardly call her a strong character given her emotional response to the Templar's crap. And she spends most of the latter stages of the game in Templar jail.
Carver is a DLC character wrapped up in his own stuff and for all we know already betrothed in an arranged marriage or something. I don't know as much about him so I can't comment but he doesn't strike me as deep or romance material, and Bioware was too lazy to make him one after the fact because he's DLC.
About Carver:
He's your brother. I think you're talking about Sebastian(?).
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Core makes a lot of good points, though. Several of the characters you list are entirely one-note.
Grunt, Javik, and Zaeed in particular. Hell, Javik is just Zaeed but a little more so. Vega isn't terrible, but he's still pretty shallow in the characterization as compared to nearly every other character in the Mass Effect series, including Traynor and Cortez.
Okay, I spoilered the response for spoilers and because it's long. Enjoy.
Mordin is older then you, a Salarian which would make sex even more awkwardly incompatible (not to mention their penchant for mating agreements) and he seems like more of a career over romance kind of guy.
Kasumi never got over Keiji, and likes characters like Jacob.
Grunt is a one dimensional krogan; not much there to even romance. Wrex would have been a better thing to put in this list because he is both strong, deeper in character/motivation, and unromancable.
Legion is an AI in a robotic shell. He only attained full individual awareness just prior to dying, and was never interested and at best perplexed by organic mating in general.
Zaeed is a one dimensional gun toting badass, who simply fills a gap in the crew for specific mercenary skills, and is not an especially deep character. He's also old and not much of a looker anymore.
Javik is millenia old, a lot more alien in mannerisms and skillsets then aliens of Shepard's cycle, and there is once again a question of incompatible physiology and desire. Javik is basically space Hitler with few redeeming qualities who exists to contradict Liara's romanticized notions of the Protheans being benevolent scholar kings and not warmongering imperialists. For drama.
Vega is an okay guy and I was under the (I suppose) mistaken impression that he could be romanced by one or both Shepards. If not, I still don't really see what qualities about him make him 'strong'. I mean, he has to ask Shepard a lot about the burdens of the N7 program and leadership in general because he failed to keep his squad alive in the past and he regrets that.
EDI is with Joker and is also an AI, who is still gradually trying to understand concepts like love and courtship that she refers to Shepard, the stronger character, over Joker for answers.
Sten is a Qunari. Even if they are physically compatible, the height issue would make it awkward, it would be extremely difficult to manage a long term relationship of any description given Sten's commitments, and the Warden has great difficulty understanding such a foreign, all encompassing philosophy which runs parallel to what they've been taught in the Andrastian faith and which has been proven by bitter history to be a violent clash of cultures.
Dog is a fucking Dog. I don't even know why you would put him/her on the list. Obviously disgusting and incompatible.
Shale is made of rock, she is a dwarven female who might not be particularly inclined to any race or gender anymore after centuries of being a golem, and she doesn't have much respect or love for organics.
Varric is probably the only strong character on your list I can agree with because he has business to attend to first before pleasure, and he knows the stakes of getting into a relationship with an individual as dangerous/charismatic/eventually rich as Hawke. He might not be into humans or homosexuality if your male. He might be a guy who likes a girl in every port and prefers to keep Hawke seperate from that out of respect for Hawke. It is sad, because he's a great character, but it makes sense.
Aveline was married when you meet her, loses her husband traumatically in the opening of the game, and takes a while to overcome that; a normal human response to grief. She isn't really going to run into your arms. And she might be like Varric, more into other things and more respecting you that having romantic attraction to ethier gender of Hawke. And of course she meets that guard guy and gets into a relationship with him eventually so she ends up taken again. I wouldn't call her strong because of how she handles that romance with him and how blunt she is when it comes to decision making and law enforcement.
Bethany is your sister. Once again, it's kind of hard to justify this without it being creepy and wrong and potentially damaging to the gene pool. And I'd hardly call her a strong character given her emotional response to the Templar's crap. And she spends most of the latter stages of the game in Templar jail.
Carver is a DLC character wrapped up in his own stuff and for all we know already betrothed in an arranged marriage or something. I don't know as much about him so I can't comment but he doesn't strike me as deep or romance material, and Bioware was too lazy to make him one after the fact because he's DLC.
About Carver:
He's your brother. I think you're talking about Sebastian(?).
Ya, I noticed and fixed that.
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Core makes a lot of good points, though. Several of the characters you list are entirely one-note.
Grunt, Javik, and Zaeed in particular. Hell, Javik is just Zaeed but a little more so. Vega isn't terrible, but he's still pretty shallow in the characterization as compared to nearly every other character in the Mass Effect series, including Traynor and Cortez.
nope all of those characters are fantastic and well-developed
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Well don't get my wrong Wyborn, I like Grunt and Javik. I just think "strong characterization" is overstating what they are. They're fun because they're one-note.
is it possible that you did not fully explore them because you knew you couldn't bang them
Lies. I talk to everyone always. I couldn't stop myself if I wanted to.
You're the one who hates talking to people because "cutscenes, gross."
woah
woah
hold up
what brings to you make such an accusation
You had stated some time ago that you wished all companion dialog was the same as how they did Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2.
oh yeah, I loved that they actually followed through with that in ME3
but that's not the same as "cutscenes, gross" and I specifically wanted that only for ship dialogue, in favor of more extensive out-of-ship interactions, which also happened in ME3
Well don't get my wrong Wyborn, I like Grunt and Javik. I just think "strong characterization" is overstating what they are. They're fun because they're one-note.
describe each of them in one note
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
Core makes a lot of good points, though. Several of the characters you list are entirely one-note.
Grunt, Javik, and Zaeed in particular. Hell, Javik is just Zaeed but a little more so. Vega isn't terrible, but he's still pretty shallow in the characterization as compared to nearly every other character in the Mass Effect series, including Traynor and Cortez.
nope all of those characters are fantastic and well-developed
They are all big GODDAMN heroes.
Yup.
None of them is terrible; they all do their jobs. And many of them are great. But I can't agree that all of them are strong or deep characters. Romancing might even work with a few more of them then might normally if you fudge it a bit, but it would be pushing it, and that would not necessarily make them worse, but better.
Intimacy is probably one of the best ways to create drama, to get to know a character and become invested in them. People would probably care a lot less about Tali in her suit without her amazing character development, which is developed better in part thanks to her optional romance. She has clear motivations that become clearer and more defined with time, and more well known through romance.
And you can really feel happy for her and yourself when you give her back the homeworld.
Corehealer on
0
ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Okay, I spoilered the response for spoilers and because it's long. Enjoy.
Mordin is older then you, a Salarian which would make sex even more awkwardly incompatible (not to mention their penchant for mating agreements) and he seems like more of a career over romance kind of guy.
Kasumi never got over Keiji, and likes characters like Jacob.
Grunt is a one dimensional krogan; not much there to even romance. Wrex would have been a better thing to put in this list because he is both strong, deeper in character/motivation, and unromancable.
Legion is an AI in a robotic shell. He only attained full individual awareness just prior to dying, and was never interested and at best perplexed by organic mating in general.
Zaeed is a one dimensional gun toting badass, who simply fills a gap in the crew for specific mercenary skills, and is not an especially deep character. He's also old and not much of a looker anymore.
Javik is millenia old, a lot more alien in mannerisms and skillsets then aliens of Shepard's cycle, and there is once again a question of incompatible physiology and desire. Javik is basically space Hitler with few redeeming qualities who exists to contradict Liara's romanticized notions of the Protheans being benevolent scholar kings and not warmongering imperialists. For drama.
Vega is an okay guy and I was under the (I suppose) mistaken impression that he could be romanced by one or both Shepards. If not, I still don't really see what qualities about him make him 'strong'. I mean, he has to ask Shepard a lot about the burdens of the N7 program and leadership in general because he failed to keep his squad alive in the past and he regrets that.
EDI is with Joker and is also an AI, who is still gradually trying to understand concepts like love and courtship that she refers to Shepard, the stronger character, over Joker for answers.
Sten is a Qunari. Even if they are physically compatible, the height issue would make it awkward, it would be extremely difficult to manage a long term relationship of any description given Sten's commitments, and the Warden has great difficulty understanding such a foreign, all encompassing philosophy which runs parallel to what they've been taught in the Andrastian faith and which has been proven by bitter history to be a violent clash of cultures.
Dog is a fucking Dog. I don't even know why you would put him/her on the list. Obviously disgusting and incompatible.
Shale is made of rock, she is a dwarven female who might not be particularly inclined to any race or gender anymore after centuries of being a golem, and she doesn't have much respect or love for organics.
Varric is probably the only strong character on your list I can agree with because he has business to attend to first before pleasure, and he knows the stakes of getting into a relationship with an individual as dangerous/charismatic/eventually rich as Hawke. He might not be into humans or homosexuality if your male. He might be a guy who likes a girl in every port and prefers to keep Hawke seperate from that out of respect for Hawke. It is sad, because he's a great character, but it makes sense.
Aveline was married when you meet her, loses her husband traumatically in the opening of the game, and takes a while to overcome that; a normal human response to grief. She isn't really going to run into your arms. And she might be like Varric, more into other things and more respecting you that having romantic attraction to ethier gender of Hawke. And of course she meets that guard guy and gets into a relationship with him eventually so she ends up taken again. I wouldn't call her strong because of how she handles that romance with him and how blunt she is when it comes to decision making and law enforcement.
Bethany is your sister. Once again, it's kind of hard to justify this without it being creepy and wrong and potentially damaging to the gene pool. And I'd hardly call her a strong character given her emotional response to the Templar's crap. And she spends most of the latter stages of the game in Templar jail.
Carver is a DLC character wrapped up in his own stuff and for all we know already betrothed in an arranged marriage or something. I don't know as much about him so I can't comment but he doesn't strike me as deep or romance material, and Bioware was too lazy to make him one after the fact because he's DLC.
About Carver:
He's your brother. I think you're talking about Sebastian(?).
Ya, I noticed and fixed that.
Wooooord.
e: I agree with @Cambiata. Those characters are fairly flat, but that makes them so much better with all the deepiness some of the other characters have.
Extreaminatus on
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Well don't get my wrong Wyborn, I like Grunt and Javik. I just think "strong characterization" is overstating what they are. They're fun because they're one-note.
Gaider actually joked about the lack of a Varric Romance
They mentioned having the interrogation end with Varric meeting back up with Hawke and explaining that he’d told them everything. ‘Everything?’ ‘Don’t worry. I skipped the part about us…’
Well don't get my wrong Wyborn, I like Grunt and Javik. I just think "strong characterization" is overstating what they are. They're fun because they're one-note.
Characterization doesn't necessarily mean 'complexity'. Good characterization should allow you to extrapolate how any given character will react to a variety of situations. Grunt and Javik have that strong presence, much more so than other Bioware characters.
I mean, take Morrigan for instance. Even knowing everything there is to know about her, some of her reactions are absolutely baffling and aren't really predictable. Ditto Oghren, Kaiden, Ashley, etc. They're very weakly characterized in that sense and tend to fit into the plot more than react as they would.
They're not deep, but they are pretty strongly characterized. And those kinds of characters tend to be the ones everyone loves and remembers anyways! (See: Carth vs. HK-47)
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
'Hey. Do you hear that hum? Is that just me? Check out my pecks'.
'I only forget to recycle the Normandy's air filtration system when I become very interested in something'.
'There is only duty. There is only the Qun. I hate all of you chaotic bashtoks'.
'Bark'. = Translation: 'I left a surprise in Morrigan's underthings'.
'I hate birds. I hate you. Can I squish you'?
'Something about business, something about a story, something about how stupid the Coterie is, something about jokes'.
'Come on Hawke, give it a rest would you? Your going to get me in trouble'.
'Something about mages. Something about how crap you are with your mom'.
'Something about overshadowing. Something about how crap you are with your mom'.
Corehealer on
+1
ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
All the recent DA talk has got me interested in playing again. Don't have my discs but I do have the product keys so at least I can download them from Origin.
Didn't realize DA:O weighed in at a massive 15GB though. Seriously, where does it all go?
Posts
You crazy, -Tal. You crazy.
I also got to reload the save and let him show up in DA2 a washed out nobody after I chose to help Loghain instead. And that was also AWESOME.
Case in point, everyone's favourite turian, Garrus.
I mean you may not end up wanting to do anything differently but then again
you might.
Mordin, Kasumi, Grunt, Legion, Zaeed, Javik, Vega, EDI, Sten, Dog, Shale, Varric, Aveline, Bethany, Carver
No -Tal, I instantly got that you are saying the characters I most deeply enjoyed out of any of Bioware's games are shit. You don't have to explain like I'm a dummy!
(Garrus, Tali, Alistair, Zevran, Leliana, and Thane 4 LYFE)
I'm just saying the ones you can't are too often better for it to be a statistical anomaly
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Did you just say Isabella isn't the best? I will fight you
But I'm not gonna fight anybody about it
Who is a good boy
He is
Yes he is
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
You don't get to drop this emoticon, Spoit
Not now
Not ever
It is a stain upon your honor and will be there until you die
Bethany: nice!
Carver: whiny!
Super strong characterization there.
Okay, I spoilered the response for spoilers and because it's long. Enjoy.
Kasumi never got over Keiji, and likes characters like Jacob.
Grunt is a one dimensional krogan; not much there to even romance. Wrex would have been a better thing to put in this list because he is both strong, deeper in character/motivation, and unromancable.
Legion is an AI in a robotic shell. He only attained full individual awareness just prior to dying, and was never interested and at best perplexed by organic mating in general.
Zaeed is a one dimensional gun toting badass, who simply fills a gap in the crew for specific mercenary skills, and is not an especially deep character. He's also old and not much of a looker anymore.
Javik is millenia old, a lot more alien in mannerisms and skillsets then aliens of Shepard's cycle, and there is once again a question of incompatible physiology and desire. Javik is basically space Hitler with few redeeming qualities who exists to contradict Liara's romanticized notions of the Protheans being benevolent scholar kings and not warmongering imperialists. For drama.
Vega is an okay guy and I was under the (I suppose) mistaken impression that he could be romanced by one or both Shepards. If not, I still don't really see what qualities about him make him 'strong'. I mean, he has to ask Shepard a lot about the burdens of the N7 program and leadership in general because he failed to keep his squad alive in the past and he regrets that.
EDI is with Joker and is also an AI, who is still gradually trying to understand concepts like love and courtship that she refers to Shepard, the stronger character, over Joker for answers.
Sten is a Qunari. Even if they are physically compatible, the height issue would make it awkward, it would be extremely difficult to manage a long term relationship of any description given Sten's commitments, and the Warden has great difficulty understanding such a foreign, all encompassing philosophy which runs parallel to what they've been taught in the Andrastian faith and which has been proven by bitter history to be a violent clash of cultures.
Dog is a fucking Dog. I don't even know why you would put him/her on the list. Obviously disgusting and incompatible.
Shale is made of rock, she is a dwarven female who might not be particularly inclined to any race or gender anymore after centuries of being a golem, and she doesn't have much respect or love for organics.
Varric is probably the only strong character on your list I can agree with because he has business to attend to first before pleasure, and he knows the stakes of getting into a relationship with an individual as dangerous/charismatic/eventually rich as Hawke. He might not be into humans or homosexuality if your male. He might be a guy who likes a girl in every port and prefers to keep Hawke seperate from that out of respect for Hawke. It is sad, because he's a great character, but it makes sense.
Aveline was married when you meet her, loses her husband traumatically in the opening of the game, and takes a while to overcome that; a normal human response to grief. She isn't really going to run into your arms. And she might be like Varric, more into other things and more respecting you that having romantic attraction to ethier gender of Hawke. And of course she meets that guard guy and gets into a relationship with him eventually so she ends up taken again. I wouldn't call her strong because of how she handles that romance with him and how blunt she is when it comes to decision making and law enforcement.
Bethany is your sister. Once again, it's kind of hard to justify this without it being creepy and wrong and potentially damaging to the gene pool. And I'd hardly call her a strong character given her emotional response to the Templar's crap. And she spends most of the latter stages of the game in Templar jail.
Carver is a DLC character wrapped up in his own stuff and for all we know already betrothed in an arranged marriage or something. I don't know as much about him so I can't comment but he doesn't strike me as deep or romance material, and Bioware was too lazy to make him one after the fact because he's DLC.
EDIT: Got Carver mixed up with Sebastian, that Noble archer guy. Carver is your brother, so he's the same as Bethany in regards to sex and isn't very strong because he's always relying on the elder Hawke sibling for guidance with life decisions and can't be easily reasoned with when he gets some idea or other stuck in his thick warrior head.
Bethany is cool because her dialog with Isabella is hilarious.
1. Let's talk about what makes an effective romance in interactive media.
2. Man, that Morrigan, I bet she got spiders.
3. You know, 2H weapons are actually....
4. Sten, rip his arms off.
Lies. I talk to everyone always. I couldn't stop myself if I wanted to.
You're the one who hates talking to people because "cutscenes, gross."
It just so happens that they are better characters for it
woah
woah
hold up
what brings to you make such an accusation
4
4
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
444444444444444444444
About Carver:
Grunt, Javik, and Zaeed in particular. Hell, Javik is just Zaeed but a little more so. Vega isn't terrible, but he's still pretty shallow in the characterization as compared to nearly every other character in the Mass Effect series, including Traynor and Cortez.
Lots of people in this topic
Are selling lots of characters short
Ya, I noticed and fixed that.
You had stated some time ago that you wished all companion dialog was the same as how they did Kasumi and Zaeed in ME2.
nope all of those characters are fantastic and well-developed
oh yeah, I loved that they actually followed through with that in ME3
but that's not the same as "cutscenes, gross" and I specifically wanted that only for ship dialogue, in favor of more extensive out-of-ship interactions, which also happened in ME3
describe each of them in one note
They are all big GODDAMN heroes.
Yup.
None of them is terrible; they all do their jobs. And many of them are great. But I can't agree that all of them are strong or deep characters. Romancing might even work with a few more of them then might normally if you fudge it a bit, but it would be pushing it, and that would not necessarily make them worse, but better.
Intimacy is probably one of the best ways to create drama, to get to know a character and become invested in them. People would probably care a lot less about Tali in her suit without her amazing character development, which is developed better in part thanks to her optional romance. She has clear motivations that become clearer and more defined with time, and more well known through romance.
Wooooord.
e: I agree with @Cambiata. Those characters are fairly flat, but that makes them so much better with all the deepiness some of the other characters have.
Ha ha, Javik even does it for you dude.
Vengance unrelenting.
Grunt is FIGHT.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Characterization doesn't necessarily mean 'complexity'. Good characterization should allow you to extrapolate how any given character will react to a variety of situations. Grunt and Javik have that strong presence, much more so than other Bioware characters.
I mean, take Morrigan for instance. Even knowing everything there is to know about her, some of her reactions are absolutely baffling and aren't really predictable. Ditto Oghren, Kaiden, Ashley, etc. They're very weakly characterized in that sense and tend to fit into the plot more than react as they would.
They're not deep, but they are pretty strongly characterized. And those kinds of characters tend to be the ones everyone loves and remembers anyways! (See: Carth vs. HK-47)
'Something about Keiji and how awesome I am'.
'I am Krogan'!
'Goddamn Mess. Goddamn Shitty Rifle. Goddamn Armies. Goddamn Heroes. Goddamn waxing nostalgic'.
'Vengeance unrelenting'.
'Hey. Do you hear that hum? Is that just me? Check out my pecks'.
'I only forget to recycle the Normandy's air filtration system when I become very interested in something'.
'There is only duty. There is only the Qun. I hate all of you chaotic bashtoks'.
'Bark'. = Translation: 'I left a surprise in Morrigan's underthings'.
'I hate birds. I hate you. Can I squish you'?
'Something about business, something about a story, something about how stupid the Coterie is, something about jokes'.
'Come on Hawke, give it a rest would you? Your going to get me in trouble'.
'Something about mages. Something about how crap you are with your mom'.
'Something about overshadowing. Something about how crap you are with your mom'.
Didn't realize DA:O weighed in at a massive 15GB though. Seriously, where does it all go?