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Dragon Age Thread - Bring your boxing gloves!

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    BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Elendil wrote: »
    Grand Cleric
    I am not a fan

    her insistence on sitting on the fence made the Kirkwall Powder Keg so much worse

    maybe intervening wouldn't have prevented what happened but man, she didn't even try
    Intervening not only wouldn't have prevented it, it would have caused what happened. Getting rid of Meredith would have caused her to go rogue. Getting rid of Orsino would have caused the mages to rebel, as they saw him as their only saving grace. She knew this, which is why she stayed neutral while reigning both of them in.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Grand Cleric
    I am not a fan

    her insistence on sitting on the fence made the Kirkwall Powder Keg so much worse

    maybe intervening wouldn't have prevented what happened but man, she didn't even try
    Intervening not only wouldn't have prevented it, it would have caused what happened. Getting rid of Meredith would have caused her to go rogue. Getting rid of Orsino would have caused the mages to rebel, as they saw him as their only saving grace. She knew this, which is why she stayed neutral while reigning both of them in.
    i agree that getting rid of either of wasn't exactly practical

    but she didn't really rein either of them in though

    when they start arguing, all she does is send them to their rooms

    which is a fine way to get them to stop arguing in the street, but it is completely avoiding dealing with the issue

    it just looks to me like meredith ramped up and ramped templar authority while the grand cleric sat on the sidelines

    as much as i hate to cite anders here, i think he has kind of a point re: not taking sides = taking meredith's side

    it's a tacit endorsement of meredith, and it makes sense that when the mages (ANDERS) explode, the chantry is their target because there's no indication of the grand cleric responding to the mages' complaints with anything but lip service

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    ZaylenzZaylenz Registered User regular

    Elendil wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Grand Cleric
    I am not a fan

    her insistence on sitting on the fence made the Kirkwall Powder Keg so much worse

    maybe intervening wouldn't have prevented what happened but man, she didn't even try
    Intervening not only wouldn't have prevented it, it would have caused what happened. Getting rid of Meredith would have caused her to go rogue. Getting rid of Orsino would have caused the mages to rebel, as they saw him as their only saving grace. She knew this, which is why she stayed neutral while reigning both of them in.
    i agree that getting rid of either of wasn't exactly practical

    but she didn't really rein either of them in though

    when they start arguing, all she does is send them to their rooms

    which is a fine way to get them to stop arguing in the street, but it is completely avoiding dealing with the issue

    it just looks to me like meredith ramped up and ramped templar authority while the grand cleric sat on the sidelines

    as much as i hate to cite anders here, i think he has kind of a point re: not taking sides = taking meredith's side

    it's a tacit endorsement of meredith, and it makes sense that when the mages (ANDERS) explode, the chantry is their target because there's no indication of the grand cleric responding to the mages' complaints with anything but lip service
    At the very least, she could have forced Meredith to allow the nobles to elect a new Viscount, which could have helped smooth things over. Allowing Meredith control of Kirkwall through fear isn't exactly a great plan.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Aw.

    Then what's the next game you're going to liveblog?

    Dunno. Something, I guess. Was thinking I'd play Alpha Protocol or Planescape but I wouldn't post about those in the same style. Or maybe Awakening? THat'd fit at least, but I have a feeling that Awakening doesn't have quite as many moments that would make me explode as Origins proper, much less DA2.

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    L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    Do Planescape.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Do AP. Everyone should play AP

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    AlazullAlazull Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Do AP. Everyone should play AP

    Seconded. Alpha Protocol is one game I thoroughly enjoyed and never really understood the backlash against it. It has some of the most memorable scenes, including a really awesome boss fight in Moscow.

    User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'd pick AP over Awakening any day of the week.

    Awakening is good, but there really isn't that huge, OMFG moments.

    Maybe a couple, but it's a much more subtle story.

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    I've been thinking and I think there is one somewhat good use of blood magic
    the joining ceremony for grey wardens involves drinking darkspawn blood

    And by good, worse case situation you die outright instead of slowly turning into a darkspawn a few decades down the line.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    I've been thinking and I think there is one somewhat good use of blood magic
    the joining ceremony for grey wardens involves drinking darkspawn blood

    And by good, worse case situation you die outright instead of slowly turning into a darkspawn a few decades down the line.
    Templar phylactery use is blood magic.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    So is the technical application of the Reaver spec.

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    Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Thash grape! Registered User regular
    So is the technical application of the Reaver spec.

    I think Reavers are generally considered evil, aren't they?

    Except when the protagonist picks that spec, since there are no consequences to simply not being evil while being a Reaver.

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    the consequence of being a reaver is that you are awesome

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    KarlKarl Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    I've been thinking and I think there is one somewhat good use of blood magic
    the joining ceremony for grey wardens involves drinking darkspawn blood

    And by good, worse case situation you die outright instead of slowly turning into a darkspawn a few decades down the line.
    Templar phylactery use is blood magic.

    Ah I didn't know that.

    Blood magic is still on the whole terrible though

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    what's the closest singleplayer game that provides a Bioware RPG experience besides the Bioware and Bethesda RPGs?

    The Witcher games. Hell, Witcher 1 even uses a Bioware engine.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    what's the closest singleplayer game that provides a Bioware RPG experience besides the Bioware and Bethesda RPGs?

    The Witcher games. Hell, Witcher 1 even uses a Bioware engine.

    I disagree with this, at least for Witcher 1. Your PC in Witcher 1, Geralt, at least, has a personality that cannot be influenced by the player in any way, shape, or form. You don't have choices of Kind Geralt, Sarcastic Geralt, or Angry Geralt. You just have Sexist, Asshole Geralt with no deviation from it.

    Its why I could not play more than four or five hours of that game. At no time did I ever have a chance to make Geralt an actually likable person.

    PSN|AspectVoid
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    DarcsteelDarcsteel Wildcard NC United StatesRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Aw.

    Then what's the next game you're going to liveblog?

    Dunno. Something, I guess. Was thinking I'd play Alpha Protocol or Planescape but I wouldn't post about those in the same style. Or maybe Awakening? THat'd fit at least, but I have a feeling that Awakening doesn't have quite as many moments that would make me explode as Origins proper, much less DA2.

    Go for AP. As has been said the gunplay is not that much but the story play is fasciniating and there is so much that can happen to you and just you. Your AP run will be unique to you simply because of all the options you get.

    personal recommendation. Do your first play through as a recruit (unlocks the veteran class for your next play through)

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    looking at the lists of games those devs made, I've already played most of them too - Vampire, NWN2 (which sucked btw), and Fallout.

    I haven't played KOTOR II though, is that quite a good game compared to Dragon Age/Mass Effect?

    KotOR2 is still maybe my favorite RPG of all time

    One of the characters in it is my favorite character from any game ever, but the whole cast (minus Bao-Dur I guess, though I really like him too) is head and shoulders above the first game's

    It's more flawed than DA2 is, but its strengths are super crazy

    Also it's the only game of its type where I recommend playing male over female, because Handmaiden rules and the Disciple drools

    Which is kinda ironic, since the "canonical" protagonist for most such games--Baldur's Gate, etc.--is male. Yet with Kotor2, the Exile is codified in Star Wars' EU as being female.

    EDIT: But enough about Star Wars, let's talk Dragon Age! Is it rude to just write the number on the birthday cake rather than somehow making a cake large enough to handle 897 candles?
    So is the technical application of the Reaver spec.

    I think Reavers are generally considered evil, aren't they?

    Except when the protagonist picks that spec, since there are no consequences to simply not being evil while being a Reaver.

    The flavor of that class always was confusing.

    I just imagine that a warrior protagonist who unlocks Reaver
    kills the high dragon and drinks its blood
    .

    Shadowen on
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    gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    Karl wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    I've been thinking and I think there is one somewhat good use of blood magic
    the joining ceremony for grey wardens involves drinking darkspawn blood

    And by good, worse case situation you die outright instead of slowly turning into a darkspawn a few decades down the line.
    Templar phylactery use is blood magic.

    Ah I didn't know that.

    Blood magic is still on the whole terrible though

    Blood magic is just a tool.

    Like a hammer it's harmless. As long as you don't bash someone's head in with it...

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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    as merrill said, a spirit is a spirit

    as anders demonstrates, all spirits are dicks

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Wynne never named that one spirit. What was it? Mercy? Kindness? Something like that.

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    BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    Faith

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    AcharenusAcharenus Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Sure, a hammer. Gifted to you by demons.

    Not neccessarily, it can be taught from one mage to another.

    There's alot of potential in blood magic not the least of which would be it's incredible ability to heal wounds and purge blood of taints demonstrated by every blood mage walking off impaling themselves and avernus working with the darkspawn taint.

    It's just difficult to argue that when every blood mage seems completed deranged and experiments on others. It's the really annoying part of DA2 for me, I know they kind of justify it with the whole thin veil thing but I really would of liked to see more level headed mages.

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    AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Acharenus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Sure, a hammer. Gifted to you by demons.

    Not neccessarily, it can be taught from one mage to another.

    There's alot of potential in blood magic not the least of which would be it's incredible ability to heal wounds and purge blood of taints demonstrated by every blood mage walking off impaling themselves and avernus working with the darkspawn taint.

    It's just difficult to argue that when every blood mage seems completed deranged and experiments on others. It's the really annoying part of DA2 for me, I know they kind of justify it with the whole thin veil thing but I really would of liked to see more level headed mages.

    I think that's kind of the point. The only level headed mages are the ones like Wynn who embrace the Circle and the Chantry. Those who try to reject them inevitably go mad, either with power or driven there by demonic whispers that they can't deal with. It sucks a whole lot, but that kind of seems to be the point. The world of Dragon Age sucks for the people who live there.

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    I sided with the mages every time in DA2. Just because I would look at the Chantry, in both games and go "Oh yeah, this needs to go. Needs to go hard."

    "Someone get me some nails and a list of theses."

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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Acharenus wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Sure, a hammer. Gifted to you by demons.

    Not neccessarily, it can be taught from one mage to another.

    There's alot of potential in blood magic not the least of which would be it's incredible ability to heal wounds and purge blood of taints demonstrated by every blood mage walking off impaling themselves and avernus working with the darkspawn taint.

    It's just difficult to argue that when every blood mage seems completed deranged and experiments on others. It's the really annoying part of DA2 for me, I know they kind of justify it with the whole thin veil thing but I really would of liked to see more level headed mages.

    I think that's kind of the point. The only level headed mages are the ones like Wynn who embrace the Circle and the Chantry. Those who try to reject them inevitably go mad, either with power or driven there by demonic whispers that they can't deal with. It sucks a whole lot, but that kind of seems to be the point. The world of Dragon Age sucks for the people who live there.
    But that's undercut by the fact that my playthrough was as a renegade blood mage and demons never tried to really tempt me into anything. I mean, sure it is in the fiction but its not in the actual game itself.

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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    That's because Hawke has protagium running through his veins.

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    SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I think that's kind of the point. The only level headed mages are the ones like Wynn who embrace the Circle and the Chantry. Those who try to reject them inevitably go mad, either with power or driven there by demonic whispers that they can't deal with. It sucks a whole lot, but that kind of seems to be the point. The world of Dragon Age sucks for the people who live there.

    That seems like more of a problem with DA2's "blood mage or bust" craziness than the world of Dragon Age. Excluding the protagonists, Morrigan wasn't insane or a blood mage, presumably most of the Dalish keepers are not, Bethany wasn't before being forced into the Circle, etc.

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    WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    ALso, for all of our shit-talking

    Merrill wasn't crazy so much as she was foolish

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    ALso, for all of our shit-talking

    Merrill wasn't crazy so much as she was foolish

    I dunno, man. For someone "foolish" she seemed to have an awfully clear understanding of what a spirit will do to you if it gets control. The impression I got from her, knowing how much she truly understood, was that she was just generally suicidal.

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    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    ALso, for all of our shit-talking

    Merrill wasn't crazy so much as she was foolish

    I dunno, man. For someone "foolish" she seemed to have an awfully clear understanding of what a spirit will do to you if it gets control. The impression I got from her, knowing how much she truly understood, was that she was just generally suicidal.
    Merrils perspective seems to be to treat all fade spirits as equally dangerous. So Anders think she is foolish for talking with a demon but she thinks he is more foolish for actually trusting a Justice spirit. I think on the whole she is wrong about this, some things in the Fade are more malevolent then others like we see in Wynn who is technically just the nicest abomination.
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    That's because Hawke has protagium running through his veins.
    Yeah but so does the greywarden and any mages you spec into blood mage path, which for me in Awakening included Anders which I am dissapointed did not even get mentioned in DA2 since he didn't seem to mind being a Blood Mage in Awakening.

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    BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    I think they said something about hoping to make each spec more in-depth, skill-wise, only allowing the player to select one spec, and having that spec actually be commented on in-story. That would be pretty sweet if I'm not just making things up.

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    JacquesCousteauJacquesCousteau Registered User regular
    I really wish I could get on with the dragon age and mass effect sequels as much as everyone else. This isn't me being patronizing but these threads just make me want to play the originals.

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    To each his own. I just really hate the bland silent protagonist concept.

    Its why I prefer 2 to Origins. I couldn't empathize with the Warden. I could with Hawke.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    i can understand a preference for DA:O over DA2, but I cannot understand a preference for ME1 over 2 and 3.

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    CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    What I don't get is why people get so mad about DA2. It doesn't erase Origins from existance

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    htmhtm Registered User regular
    One of the great joys of these forums is finding links to banters I missed in the game:

    God, I love Isabela.

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    Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's one of my complaints about the mage path of DA2, the game fails to show me any mages that I sympathize with.

    Not saying all mages are stupid assholes, but all mages in Kirkwall sure all. Of course, the reason these mages are assholes is because of other mages fucking up the Veil there, so... yeah.

    Wynne was also a special case, since she was technically dead when "possessed" by Faith. Spirits interact with dead humans differently than living humans. You see it repeated with Justice in DA:A and any Revenant. Spirits retain their original personality (for lack of a better word) when entering dead things.

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