Which is better, GW2 or WoW5?

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    GW2 has a very fun, exploration filled levelling experience. It also has phenomenal DAoC style 3 realm PvP in WvWvW. It does not have what an MMO veteran would consider a very good PvE end game. I love GW2, and I'm an MMO junkie, and it has done some fantastic things, and the combat is very fun, and the classes are fun enough that I(who usually doesn't make many alts) already have 2 80s, and will probably level up more.

    But the only thing that will keep me playing long term is the lack of a subscription, the WvWvW, the structured PvP, and that my friends and I sometimes do dungeons together which can be fun because we're playing together, in spite of the fact that they're VERY hit and miss with the boss design.

    Short version is: If you like PvE end game, WoW is probably going to suit you better, if you like PvP end game DAoC style, GW2. But honestly, if you just like good video games, buy GW2 and level one character up and explore the world. There's nothing forcing you to keep paying/playing if you get your fill.

  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    I don't get the "end game" argument. I think it might just depend on the individual.

    I find the dungeons in GW2 to be more interesting than WoW, even if there are some rough edges in some cases. I think this is mostly due to the combat system in GW2 (dodging/mobility, lack of trinity, and the way boon/conditions are handled), rather than the actual boss design, although there are some very fun fights as a result of boss design. I also like that "trash" is not just trash but a significant fight, and that there are environmental hazards/traps to consider.

    Sure, there is no tier progression to hold a carrot in front of us, but I am actually very happy to be 80 and feel very little pressure to "keep up". I can just work on dungeons over the next few months to get various cool looking equipments, and set my own goals based on my character build and which skins look cool, rather than having a ladder I must climb to get to the most challenging content.

    Also, now that they have worked out a lot of the bugs, high-end dynamic events can be a blast. I can see myself wandering around doing those (ideally with some NICE guys/gals) for karma points periodically, especially if they add new ones over time as they have hinted they will.

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  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    I played Asheron's Call for five years.

    Since then, every MMO has lost my interest in short order. WoW was no exception - a tremendously boring game for me.

    I played GW1 for a long time, and enjoyed it, but not as much as AC.

    GW2 is giving me that 'first days of AC' feeling, which I didn't think was possible anymore. I really, really like it so far.

    drunkenpandaren
  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    I don't get the "end game" argument. I think it might just depend on the individual.

    I think a lot of that comes from people who either started playing MMO's in the WoW era, or started late in the previous generation.

    Having started long before that, "end game" has a different meaning to me. That's not content you grind over and over at the level cap; end game is when you unsubscribe.

  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Registered User regular
    GW2 has a lot of quality of life improvements that would benefit WoW. Stuff like having bank access from the crafting stations, depositing resources from anywhere in the world, the waypoint system, the way resource nodes are phased so everyone has their own and you're not competing over them, etc. The combat is more dynamic and interesting, there's a lot of attention to detail, and the scenery is fantastic. It encourages cooperation instead of punishing it. There's also no monthly fee so one doesn't feel like they have to play or they're wasting their money. I think their quest system is a step up over WoW's and I'd like to see it expanded on. The dynamic event system adds another dimension to the game although it can be repetitive sometimes. It has potential though. The level scaling is interesting. I can go back to low level zones and they're still useful. GW2 uses the phasing mechanic sparingly and I'd say more appropriately. WoW tends to overuse it to the detriment of the game experience.

    It's not perfect. The dungeons are not entirely balanced and still buggy. Skills could stand another tuning pass(which they're working on I think?) and some of the content bugs out occasionally and stops working although to be fair, I see evidence of them working hard to correct a lot of that. They push out new patches regularly. GW2's skill system is....interesting. I'm not entirely sure whether I like it or not. The possibilities for different builds and synergies is interesting but at the same time it feels kind of limiting. If there's a skill I don't like I can't switch it for something else without swapping out the entire weapon and losing access to all the other skills for that weapon type. On the other hand I'm not overwhelmed trying to find hot keys for everything the way I do with WoW. Too many skills can be just as bad as too few or not enough interesting choices. It's a new game so it doesn't have as much content as WoW. That being said it still has an impressive amount for a new MMO. The content is a little more challenging than WoW(a plus in my opinion).

    WoW does pve style raiding and small group content very well. GW2 has the massive three way realm vs realm pvp. WoW is a more polished game. The new expansion is fantastic and I'm hearing a lot of good things about the new 5 man dungeons. It's also a 7+ year old game so if you're tired of it, well, it's probably not going to have as much life as a new game. It remains to be seen whether some of the game mechanic changes they made will work out or not.

    GW2 is more graphics intensive than WoW and requires a better system if you want to participate in the group pvp type content and large dynamic events without having your fps take a plunge.

    Final analysis, WoW has the edge for pve content, especially small group content but it's an older game. GW2 might not keep you interested long term but it's still a lot of fun. It should keep you busy for a couple months and I'd say it's well worth the money spent. Not having a monthly fee means you can come back and pick it up at any time. As long as ArenaNet keeps working like they are the game is only going to get better.

  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    Purely from a monetary:time spent standpoint it's well worth it. (provided you consider both games to be equal in "fun")

    I've put over 300+ hours into GW2 already and still only paid the initial $60 price of the game. I also just today got my main to 80, while I have 7 alts ranging from lvl 5 to 35. There is a plethora of stuff to do and I've barely hit the tip of the iceberg (for reference I only have 58% map completion on my lvl 80 main which has over 150 hours on it. Granted i'm not the most efficient player but that's still well worth the price of admission.)

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    (for reference I only have 58% map completion on my lvl 80 main which has over 150 hours on it. Granted i'm not the most efficient player but that's still well worth the price of admission.)

    To expand on this, the areas you're missing are likely a lot of the starter areas for races you didn't play. When you go and do them, it's still interesting to play, because the dynamic events and tasks are different and themed for that race, and also you get your level scaled down so you're not just 1 shotting every enemy and still need to think. You'll still basically have the best gear possible for the area, but you won't be an uber god going back to kick puppies.

  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention dungeons. WoW has GW2 beat in that area as well, the dungeons in GW2 are just not that great

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    I don't get the "end game" argument. I think it might just depend on the individual.

    I find the dungeons in GW2 to be more interesting than WoW, even if there are some rough edges in some cases. I think this is mostly due to the combat system in GW2 (dodging/mobility, lack of trinity, and the way boon/conditions are handled), rather than the actual boss design, although there are some very fun fights as a result of boss design. I also like that "trash" is not just trash but a significant fight, and that there are environmental hazards/traps to consider.

    Sure, there is no tier progression to hold a carrot in front of us, but I am actually very happy to be 80 and feel very little pressure to "keep up". I can just work on dungeons over the next few months to get various cool looking equipments, and set my own goals based on my character build and which skins look cool, rather than having a ladder I must climb to get to the most challenging content.

    Also, now that they have worked out a lot of the bugs, high-end dynamic events can be a blast. I can see myself wandering around doing those (ideally with some NICE guys/gals) for karma points periodically, especially if they add new ones over time as they have hinted they will.

    I love GW2, and am still playing it, with 2 80s and a 3rd on the way. I play all the content in the game, WvW, SPvP, dungeons, etc. The dungeons in GW2 are just not that great. There are a few really good standout fights, like the last boss of SE story, the last boss of CoF story that do interesting things, but outside that, most of the bosses are cakewalks that just have one big thing to dodge and then you just hammer away because they have faaaaaaar too much health.

    Many of the "trash" packs are the same thing. Some of them are crazy hard and force you to pull out all the stops, which is fine, but some of them are easy as hell but have enough health you take 3 to 4 minutes on one pack, which is just a joke.

    Nobody who is only interested in PvE end game will stick to GW2 for a long time, that was my point. It's not a knock on the game as a whole, it's just a warning that if you don't like PvP, you may enjoy the hell out of the ride to 80 in GW2, but after you're there for a little while, you're not going to stick. Like I said before though, even if you are a PvE only player, I'd still suggest playing GW2, just because it's not a sub game, and you can just enjoy playing a new game, exploring a new world, and when you get to 80 and finish the personal story you can consider that "beating the game" for yourself if you so choose.

    shryke
  • SirsonSirson Registered User regular
    Wow is much better for me. In a solid WoW guild so I am pretty biased. I'm more of a "PvE" type guy too.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    For me GW2 was a GREAT leveling experience. Varied and fun environments with a new leveling system. The story quests are fun, but can be very buggy, and everything was great. Until I got max level.

    The grinding in this game are magnitudes higher than any other MMO I can think of right now. Sure the grinding is "optional" but it is really the only thing the game offers to PvEers end game and so I do not consider it "optional". The RoI is very low. It is a personal preference here. The game also pushes you to spend real money for the most basic of quality of life improvements (bank and bag space). You CAN spend in game gold on these items but last I looked the conversion rate was steadily decreasing so it would take a looong time.

    It is nice that the game is becomming less buggy though. I took a break from WoW and jumped in to see if I could complete my 100% of Orr zones and I was finally able to.



    WoW is WoW. Not much has really changed in MoP. It is essentially the same game but they have just added in a few big quality of life improvements that people have been asking for.

    The central hub city is located almost smack dab in the middle of the content. There are many many factions with fun dailies (at least for now) spread across the map and not in one central location. The dalies unlock in hubs located across the map so even if your grinding out faction you will only run into those grinding that same faction at that same time.

    Heroic dungeons are back to Wrath levels. They even lowered the requirements to get into them yesterday so you can get in from quest gear alone.

    The story quests they added in are a fun little comical diversion and flesh out the story on why you are in a particular instance or zone.

    Harvest moon WoW style.

    Pokemon WoW style.

    Achieves, titles, mounts are account wide. etc etc

    Again in the end the choice between these games are personal preference.

  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    I've been playing GW2 for about 3 weeks or so and played WoW up until I lost time/interest during Cataclysm. Steamlined would be the best way to describe GW2. That covers what I love about it and what I find lacking so far.

    It's a lot easier to wander around and find some content to chip away at in GW2. This cannot be understated. That said, a few things have been jarring so far.

    You don't get a lot of context for stuff. A human rogue in WoW would know that they're a volunteer soldier in the Stormwind militia helping to rebuild the kingdom after 3 wars before completing their first kobold killing quest, that as a rogue they were working under Stormwind Intelligence by level 10, and that the bandits plaguing the area are disgruntled masons and woodworkers that have put their engineering skills to build a warship to attack Stormwind by level 15. I'm level 31 or so on my highest level character, a thief, and only recently have started getting a sense of where a stealthy rat bastard type fits into the factions fighting the big bads and why I'm buddy buddy with the captain of the guards. This would be even more weird if I was playing a necromancer and wondering why the farmers are perfectly fine with undead minions wandering through their wheat fields. I get the feeling you don't get an opening spiel about not all demons necessarily being evil or the need to stay in control or else other warlocks will kill you if you go corrupt that a lock can get by level 2 in WoW.

    There's clearly lore in the world, but you don't get much sense of it. the world building isn't as honed and practiced as in WoW. I still have no idea why the game is called Guild Wars.

    There also doesn't seem to be much to do in terms of side activities besides the standard crafting, pve, or pvp. Exploration seems to be about it. No mounts to collect and non-combat pets seem to be a cash shop only deal. As such, I don't see this gripping me the way WoW did once I reach max level but I only picked it up to kill time between other games anyway.

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  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    I've been playing GW2 for about 3 weeks or so and played WoW up until I lost time/interest during Cataclysm. Steamlined would be the best way to describe GW2. That covers what I love about it and what I find lacking so far.

    It's a lot easier to wander around and find some content to chip away at in GW2. This cannot be understated. That said, a few things have been jarring so far.

    You don't get a lot of context for stuff. A human rogue in WoW would know that they're a volunteer soldier in the Stormwind militia helping to rebuild the kingdom after 3 wars before completing their first kobold killing quest, that as a rogue they were working under Stormwind Intelligence by level 10, and that the bandits plaguing the area are disgruntled masons and woodworkers that have put their engineering skills to build a warship to attack Stormwind by level 15. I'm level 31 or so on my highest level character, a thief, and only recently have started getting a sense of where a stealthy rat bastard type fits into the factions fighting the big bads and why I'm buddy buddy with the captain of the guards. This would be even more weird if I was playing a necromancer and wondering why the farmers are perfectly fine with undead minions wandering through their wheat fields. I get the feeling you don't get an opening spiel about not all demons necessarily being evil or the need to stay in control or else other warlocks will kill you if you go corrupt that a lock can get by level 2 in WoW.

    There's clearly lore in the world, but you don't get much sense of it. the world building isn't as honed and practiced as in WoW. I still have no idea why the game is called Guild Wars.

    There also doesn't seem to be much to do in terms of side activities besides the standard crafting, pve, or pvp. Exploration seems to be about it. No mounts to collect and non-combat pets seem to be a cash shop only deal. As such, I don't see this gripping me the way WoW did once I reach max level but I only picked it up to kill time between other games anyway.

    I had the complete opposite experience to that, I could not tell you a damn thing about WoW lore as I couldn't be asked to read through the text after the first few levels.

    However in GW2 I have a much better sense of my character and what she is dealing with as an Asuran and it's amazing. I get a much better idea of the world around me and what the various factions are trying to do, whereas in WoW I couldn't tell you a damned thing beyond some of the raid bosses. I hear people complain a lot of not knowing what is going on in GW2 which seems odd to me since every story quest and dungeon spells it out pretty clearly. Even the standard quests aren't hard to grasp without even speaking to the heart npc's because you can actively see the ebb and flow of the actions and the various things you can do in each quest to progress in it all infer pretty heavily what is going on without speaking to a single npc.

    If you want more detail though you can get it from the npc's in the normal fashion.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, I mean, my main is a Sylvari, and I've taken it to nearly level 50. Of the story quests I've done, there's a very clear story proression that also spells out where the Sylvari came from. I've now joined the Vigil, and again, very clearly explained what they do, and my first mission for them very clearly explained what I'm doing and why. Story and context, at least for the personal quest, are very clear simply from listening to the discussions between characters and talking a bit to characters before or after a mission.

    Maybe it's different on a race by race basis? I've heard human and Norn aren't very good on the personal quest/story side compared to Sylvari, Asura and Charr.

    -Loki- on
  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    I remember when they were throwing around the idea of 'Destiny Quests' or whatever in WoW and came to the conclusion that everyone would have the same story. Granted they didn't have much in terms of branching stories in MMOs when it came out. But that is for a different topic.

    I'm really just not playing WoW for the sake for not playing WoW. I love the WoWs and I probably would love the MoPs but playing it would just make me not play anything else. Kinda like what Guild Wars 2 is doing to me right now.

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  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Yeah, I mean, my main is a Sylvari, and I've taken it to nearly level 50. Of the story quests I've done, there's a very clear story proression that also spells out where the Sylvari came from. I've now joined the Vigil, and again, very clearly explained what they do, and my first mission for them very clearly explained what I'm doing and why. Story and context, at least for the personal quest, are very clear simply from listening to the discussions between characters and talking a bit to characters before or after a mission.

    Maybe it's different on a race by race basis? I've heard human and Norn aren't very good on the personal quest/story side compared to Sylvari, Asura and Charr.

    That's because Humans and Norns are boring. I mean it's humans and big humans, where is the fun in that?

    Asura are the best, this is fact and not at all a completely biased opinion. There is concrete factual evidence showing that Intelligence is based on a ratio of size with the smaller sizes being far more intelligent.

    Granted we are having some outliers in the data as our skritt sampling keeps running off with the equipment, but I assure you the data is sound.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    As to the OP, while I don't play WoW, I'll comment on what makes GW 2 worth it for me.

    The ability to play for 20-30 minutes and accomplish something. Like, literally 20-30 minutes.

    Sometimes at night I want to get a bit of a GW 2 fix in, and it's 10pm and I really should get some sleep because work and whatever. So I log in, take note of what zone I'm in, go have a look at the checkpoints, and see that I have a few that have unfound Points of Interest, Tasks or Vistas near it. So I warp over there, and spend 5 minutes climbing a mountain. I get to the top, activate the Vista, enjoy the cutscene and get some experience for it. Then I jump down (carefully), run over to a undiscovered Point of Interest, have a look around the area (it's worth doing - the world they built is amazing), and get some experience for doing this. Then run over to a Task, and spend the last 10 minutes picking through scrub for stuff, shooting monsters in the face with my awesome longbow, stealing rum, whatever, and get a large boost of experience for donig that.

    If along the way, I see some people in a dynamic event fighting some cool huge boss, I'll stop by, drop a couple of spirits to help them out, and fire some volleys of arrows into its face. This nets me even more experience, gold and karma. I can log off knowing I explored the world and got some actual in game reward for it, finished off a task, and maybe stopped by a cool fight and helped kill a huge boss, without even knowing that boss was going to be there or even needing to go into a town to start these quests. It just organically happens as you go.

    On the weekend, when I have more time, I can invest a few hours in some personal quests, exploring a new zone, putting in some wuvwuv time (the PvP really is exceptional) or helping friends with something. But the game scratches two itches - having some longer term tasks that I can do when I have more free time, and also having smaller goals that still actually reward you that can be done in a very short amount of time.

    -Loki- on
  • KryhsKryhs Registered User regular
    As a non-pvp'er, any bonus points on either side are moot to me. I do not care if WvWvW is great, I do not care if sPvP is great. They sound like excellent content for people who DO like it, though.

    Also, where is the dungeon finder in GW2? It's 2012, come on... It's not that I'm too lazy, it's that I've had to manually find groups since EQ1 and it's something we should just be past by now. Hell, most games ARE, so what's GW2's deal?

    I'll echo what others have said. MoP is more of the same WoW, just newer. That's great to me, though. I haven't logged in to GW2 since MoP came out, but I will eventually. I liked what I played (got up to 41). I LOVE hunting for vistas, challenge points, POI's, etc.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Kryhs wrote: »
    As a non-pvp'er, any bonus points on either side are moot to me. I do not care if WvWvW is great, I do not care if sPvP is great. They sound like excellent content for people who DO like it, though.

    Also, where is the dungeon finder in GW2? It's 2012, come on... It's not that I'm too lazy, it's that I've had to manually find groups since EQ1 and it's something we should just be past by now. Hell, most games ARE, so what's GW2's deal?

    I'll echo what others have said. MoP is more of the same WoW, just newer. That's great to me, though. I haven't logged in to GW2 since MoP came out, but I will eventually. I liked what I played (got up to 41). I LOVE hunting for vistas, challenge points, POI's, etc.

    You'd think we'd be past it, but SWTOR launched without one too. That's the game I was flashing back to when I realised GW2 didn't have one. I was like "Both big new MMOs this year? Fucking seriously?".

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    I kind of think the lack of dungeon finder in GW2 is more because their intent is that explorable dungeons are meant for organized groups. They've stated that outright, as their stance is kind of we don't care if pugs can't beat explorables, because that's not who they're for. Then you're left having pugs with a dungeon finder for story mode only, which is really meant to only run once, and you realize the cost to develop the dungeon finder is kind of pointless.

    Now if the explorables were meant to be run daily and by pugs like wow, no doubt a dungeon finder should exist. Really, it's more than clear that the pvp end game of WvW is the thing they expect to retain people between expansions, because from a pve perspective, saving up for a legendary is about the only thing that will keep you playing.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    That is just a plain horrible stance to have. Absolutely horrible.

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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    That is just a plain horrible stance to have. Absolutely horrible.

    I also don't think its their stance. They just said today/yesterday that they plan to update the LFG system because they think its sorely lacking.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    It was a dev post on the official forums from Colin Johanson, as quoted below:

    The post he was replying to, from some random dude read: "So what your saying is that a player with average skill or a PUG should just avoid explorer modes...."

    Johanson said:
    As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case
    Pretty cut and dry.

    That being said, here is a quote from Robert Hrouda regarding LFG support, indicating they are at least intending to make it better:
    We’re very aware our LFG system is lacking, an it’s high on our list of things to rework. We have some other very pressing issues to handle first, but as someone who built/runs dungeons, and often PUG them, I dislike our current obscure and non-informative system, and re-building it is high on my list of things-to-flail-my-arms-about-to-talented-people-who-can-do-something-about-it, so that they do something about it.

    Hrouda also went on to say that they have plans for improving the dungeons in general, but they'd be talking about it soon and he couldn't say anything publicly about the plans yet, so who knows.

    Joshmvii on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    shryke wrote: »
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

    They do actually.

    To elaborate it's not a good system by any means, but it does exist.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

    They do actually.

    To elaborate it's not a good system by any means, but it does exist.

    If it exists, nothing about it is intuitive or user friendly.

  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

    They do actually.

    To elaborate it's not a good system by any means, but it does exist.

    If it exists, nothing about it is intuitive or user friendly.

    Which is why it's 'not a good system by any means'.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

    They do actually.

    To elaborate it's not a good system by any means, but it does exist.

    If it exists, nothing about it is intuitive or user friendly.

    Which is why it's 'not a good system by any means'.

    I'm staring at it right now. I refuse to conceded it even qualifies as a system.

    It's a window that doesn't do anything.

  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    -Loki- wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    They don't even have a flag yourself for LFG as far as I can determine. There IS no LFG system at all, which is pretty terrible.

    They do actually.

    To elaborate it's not a good system by any means, but it does exist.

    If it exists, nothing about it is intuitive or user friendly.

    Which is why it's 'not a good system by any means'.

    I'm staring at it right now. I refuse to conceded it even qualifies as a system.

    It's a window that doesn't do anything.

    You have to mark yourself as LFG first, then others can see you in the little window.

    I concede it's not a good system, but it is actually a system, and it does exist.

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  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    GW2 definitely needs a functional LFG tool of some description. It's good to see the devs are clearly aware of that.

    However, I hope they avoid the WoW-style auto-dungeon-group thing. That was somewhat toxic to the entire dungeon-going experience in WoW for me, and for many other people also.

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    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    GW2 definitely needs a functional LFG tool of some description. It's good to see the devs are clearly aware of that.

    However, I hope they avoid the WoW-style auto-dungeon-group thing. That was somewhat toxic to the entire dungeon-going experience in WoW for me, and for many other people also.

    And for everyone else, it was a huge boon. LFG is insanely popular.

  • naengwennaengwen Registered User regular
    I think you're making too big a deal of it.

    Insanely popular? Sure, in that you were hardly able to do dungeons without it after it's implementation. That's sort of the problem; those folks people used to get along with on servers just hit a button instead.

    But it didn't hurt me, really. Didn't help much, either - I was getting into dungeons just fine before dungeon finder. After it came in, the game was the same game it used to be, only with less talking.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    naengwen wrote: »
    I think you're making too big a deal of it.

    Insanely popular? Sure, in that you were hardly able to do dungeons without it after it's implementation. That's sort of the problem; those folks people used to get along with on servers just hit a button instead.

    But it didn't hurt me, really. Didn't help much, either - I was getting into dungeons just fine before dungeon finder. After it came in, the game was the same game it used to be, only with less talking.

    No, I'm really not. It's a hugely popular and universally used feature. Blizzard has stated before it's basically one of the things, if not the thing, they've included in the game that they've got the most positive feedback for.

    shryke on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Life before LFD was not some magic storybook setting where groups were common and chatty love-ins.

    I basically sat in the main hub and did chat spam while looking through the old LFG window. The group talked because I needed one or two guildies to fill things out.

    Basically, your evidence is anecdotal and thus inherently flawed.

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    shryke
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I do think it's probably really easy to underestimate how important a group finder function is. See: the two major new releases this year launching without one. I don't think WoW's completely blind, cross-server PuG system is ideal though, at least not for small group stuff.

    I will say that I think they have (finally) done a good job in MoP of creating an experience that's both friendly for new/casual/whatever type of players and potentially compelling for the serious crowd.

    Having done some challenge modes now, they are legitimately hard. Not like, hard for the average WoW player but easy for somebody competent, legit difficult. Requiring serious coordination and thought. It's weird to think we'll never outgear them, too.

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  • PoketpixiePoketpixie Registered User regular
    If manually putting a group together is so awesome why did everyone switch to using WoW's LFG tool the second it was implemented? Because manually putting a group together sucks. It's inefficient. It means sitting around a zone while you wait more often than not and that's not fun. That's time you could be spending playing the game! But no, you're sitting there waiting to get into a group. Sometimes you spend the entire night spamming for a group and never get to the dungeon at all. I remember doing that back when I played EQ. It freakin' sucked. And if people can pick and choose then they're going to start setting criteria for who they'll accept. If your class is the unpopular one or they don't think you're (over)geared enough then you're out of luck.

    Sure LFG is not ideal but let's not pretend manually putting a group together is the bees knees either.

  • Enosh20Enosh20 Registered User regular
    Poketpixie wrote: »
    If manually putting a group together is so awesome why did everyone switch to using WoW's LFG tool the second it was implemented?
    and we have a winner
    I played swtor for a long time, I still remember the night I was spamming for 2h in chat for a group (making one, not looking for one), sure finding the other dps was easy, but gl with the tank and healer, when i decided to go "fuck it won't work today" I looked at the clock and saw that 2h passes, 2 god damn hours

    this shit isn't fun and shouldn't be happening in 2012

    Avynte
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    because in mmos as in life, people take the path of least resistance whether or not it is ultimately the most rewarding

    I don't really think anybody wants to return to the days when you had to sit in city chat waiting for a group to come along, especially if you didn't play a tank/healer. But this idea where the whole group content we experience in a multiplayer game is one in which communication is 1) unnecessary and/or 2) usually obnoxious isn't ideal either. I mean LFR's horrible; mechanically I guess I'm pushing buttons and "playing" a game, but holy shit it's mindless.

    I dunno, it's hard to design a system that incentivizes people to communicate and work together without actually requiring that they do it. Obviously the technical means exist for it not to be required, but some baseline interaction between players ought to be the goal. Maybe if you had some kind of sliding difficulty that rewarded performance (timed runs, optional bosses, etc) in a way that is more granular than WoW currently does it.

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  • citizen059citizen059 hello my name is citizen I'm from the InternetRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    My favorite part of manually looking for group members: when you spend 20 minutes trying to assemble a group because people who join you can't wait longer than three minutes before dropping back out. Sometimes they're even nice enough to say "sry joining another grp lol".

    Or when you and a friend are LFG, someone spams that their group needs two more people...so you send them a message, you send them an invite, whatever you can do...and you're met with silence. Minutes go by as you try in vain to join them, only to see them continue to spam the LFG chat and then eventually leave with two players that aren't you.

    Yeah, anything that can be done to automate the process, I'm fine with.

    citizen059 on
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Of course, Fort Aspenwood has literally like 1000 people from PA playing on it...so, there's like...you know...people to play with.



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