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Thank you for helping America; now kindly fuck off

ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
edited March 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
So, 60 Minutes and CBS news initially covered this story.

In a nutshell, when we initially invaded Iraq, we got about 100,000 native Iraqis to help us out. Now that we've fucked everything up so thoroughly, they've been forced to flee for their and their families' lives, into areas like Syria and Jordan, which can't really afford to support them. They're there on temporary visas, and aren't allowed to have jobs. Many of them are asking for asylum from the U.S., and our response has been, generally, "thank you for helping; now kindly fuck off."

Xenophobes will say that they should go back to their own country, because we're there to establish democracy for them. However, we told them we would make everything okay, we hired them to help us, and now, because of our fuckups, they're stuck. Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer. Should cover their relocation and help them settle in nicely.

Thanatos on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    This is only mediocre anger and bitterness.

    Doesn't live up to the hype.

    Shinto on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2007
    They should have learned the first two times we did it.

    There's an old saying in Texas...

    Doc on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    So, 60 Minutes and CBS news initially covered this story.

    In a nutshell, when we initially invaded Iraq, we got about 100,000 native Iraqis to help us out. Now that we've fucked everything up so thoroughly, they've been forced to flee for their and their families' lives, into areas like Syria and Jordan, which can't really afford to support them. They're there on temporary visas, and aren't allowed to have jobs. Many of them are asking for asylum from the U.S., and our response has been, generally, "thank you for helping; now kindly fuck off."

    Xenophobes will say that they should go back to their own country, because we're there to establish democracy for them. However, we told them we would make everything okay, we hired them to help us, and now, because of our fuckups, they're stuck. Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer. Should cover their relocation and help them settle in nicely.

    This is a correct statement.

    Find a way to do it.

    Go.

    MVMosin on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    They should have learned the first two times we did it.

    There's an old saying in Texas...
    Yeah, this is what really pisses me off. It sends the message to people in the Middle East "don't help America, they'll just screw you in the end." Is that really the kind of message we want to be sending?

    If we take care of these people, it sends a message that America takes care of the people that help us. This encourages people to help us in the Middle East, instead of making talking to Americans an automatic death-warrant. Hell, by not helping these people, we're helping the terrorists to win.

    I wish this administration would stop just paying lip service to actually fighting the terrorists/insurgents and do things that would actually help us win the battle of hearts and minds that they like to talk about so much.

    Thanatos on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Okay, then how do we do it?

    MVMosin on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Okay, then how do we do it?
    The same way we did it during Vietnam: Congress passes a law establishing an emergency visa program for people who've helped the U.S. in Iraq, and now fear for their life because of it. We fly them to the U.S., place them in temporary housing until we can place them in communities. It wouldn't be easy, but it could work.

    Thanatos on
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    Al SimmonsAl Simmons Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Honestly at this point I think the battle for hearts and minds is long over. Those guys are going to hate the US forever imo, and the ones that act like they don't are just paying lip service 'till we gtfo.

    I guess the problem with paying for relocation, etc. is that it leads to a feeling of entitlement for every victim of every world conflict in some way involving the USA from now until the end of time. Not saying we don't come off like asses in this instance, but it isn't like everything would be peachy over there if every disenfranchised Iraqi got a free apartment for a year and a PS3.

    Al Simmons on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Okay, then how do we do it?
    The same way we did it during Vietnam: Congress passes a law establishing an emergency visa program for people who've helped the U.S. in Iraq, and now fear for their life because of it. We fly them to the U.S., place them in temporary housing until we can place them in communities. It wouldn't be easy, but it could work.

    No, no, no, not how does the country do it, I mean what can we do?

    MVMosin on
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    Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    It's disgusting, the US and UK started this war, but both will only take 200 refugees each. Sweden is the only western country to accept Iraqis as refugees. As we've made sch a cock-up we should help all Iraqis, not those who've specifically helped us.

    Anarchy Rules! on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Al Simmons wrote: »
    Honestly at this point I think the battle for hearts and minds is long over. Those guys are going to hate the US forever imo, and the ones that act like they don't are just paying lip service 'till we gtfo.

    I guess the problem with paying for relocation, etc. is that it leads to a feeling of entitlement for every victim of every world conflict in some way involving the USA from now until the end of time. Not saying we don't come off like asses in this instance, but it isn't like everything would be peachy over there if every disenfranchised Iraqi got a free apartment for a year and a PS3.
    And I would agree with you, if it weren't for the fact that these people are refugees who fear for their lives solely because they helped the U.S. We told them everything would be fine,we asked for their help, and they gave it.

    Thanatos on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Okay, then how do we do it?
    The same way we did it during Vietnam: Congress passes a law establishing an emergency visa program for people who've helped the U.S. in Iraq, and now fear for their life because of it. We fly them to the U.S., place them in temporary housing until we can place them in communities. It wouldn't be easy, but it could work.
    No, no, no, not how does the country do it, I mean what can we do?
    Write your congressmen.

    Thanatos on
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    NevNev Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    We're the only ones who accept them? Hah! And we're not even in this war.

    Nev on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MVMosin wrote: »
    Okay, then how do we do it?
    The same way we did it during Vietnam: Congress passes a law establishing an emergency visa program for people who've helped the U.S. in Iraq, and now fear for their life because of it. We fly them to the U.S., place them in temporary housing until we can place them in communities. It wouldn't be easy, but it could work.
    No, no, no, not how does the country do it, I mean what can we do?
    Write your congressmen.

    I'm going to pay my congressmen some fucking visits.
    Al Capone wrote:

    You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word.

    MVMosin on
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    Al SimmonsAl Simmons Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well, in the end I guess we are dealing with military funding (I think), and if they can't be bothered to spend money to have proper health care for their own troops, then I guess those people are pretty far down the list.

    Not like the money couldn't be there, but I highly doubt it ever will be since the moment you spend it on that some general is gonna complain about why are we spending money babying Iraqi civilians (I'm sure it will be put that way) when he can't get funds for fixing the problems exposed by the weekly news story of military unpreparedness.

    Al Simmons on
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer. Should cover their relocation and help them settle in nicely.

    As long as their relocation is handled better than the Bosnian or Kurdish refugees who were dumped in my hometown I'd be all for it, but if it's another case of "Hey, welcome to America. Here's a check and an apartment...uh...later I guess." then fuck that.

    I guess my point is I'm all for bringing in the refugees but only if they're actually going to have assistance that includes helping them become integrated with the alien society they'll find themselves in and not just sticking them in new apartments and walking away.

    HappylilElf on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    As a refugee from another US-instigated war, I must say that a check and a flat is more than enough.

    In fact, if a foreigner wants to live here, the only help he needs is for everyone to refrain from harassing him for being a foreigner.

    MVMosin on
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    randombattlerandombattle Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    As a refugee from another US-instigated war, I must say that a check and a flat is more than enough.

    In fact, if a foreigner wants to live here, the only help he needs is for everyone to refrain from harassing him for being a foreigner.

    Would be pretty hard now considering all the hate for "all them damn terrorists over there" that America is all about now. Gotta support our troops you know.

    randombattle on
    itsstupidbutidontcare2.gif
    I never asked for this!
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    As a refugee from another US-instigated war, I must say that a check and a flat is more than enough.

    In fact, if a foreigner wants to live here, the only help he needs is for everyone to refrain from harassing him for being a foreigner.

    Ah man, are you from the Balkans?

    Shinto on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    There's plenty of large middle eastern communities in the US many of them made up largely of refugees from various nations. it wouldn't be too hard to find a place these people would be accepted. Help em find a place to fit in and give em some startup cash and thats about it.

    nexuscrawler on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    There's plenty of large middle eastern communities in the US many of them made up largely of refugees from various nations. it wouldn't be too hard to find a place these people would be accepted. Help em find a place to fit in and give em some startup cash and thats about it.

    Will tells me that DC has a neighborhood for people from everywhere we've had a military intervention in the last 60 years.

    Shinto on
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    TalonZahnTalonZahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer.

    And I thought I was the only one who blamed pretty much every problem in the world today on Baby Boomers.

    TalonZahn on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    TalonZahn wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer.

    And I thought I was the only one who blamed pretty much every problem in the world today on Baby Boomers.

    Welcome home.

    Shinto on
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    My gut reaction to this is similar to the veteran health care one. The enormity of the problem is being greatly exaggerated in the run up to next year's elections.

    I'm not completely cynical anout it, it does sound like some shitty U.S. dealings. And I support helping these guys out if they really were on our side. But I'm more inclined to believe in both cases that the issue is being blown out of proportion because it makes a good scandalous story and it helps solidfy a Dem in office in '09.

    Yar on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    TalonZahn wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer.

    And I thought I was the only one who blamed pretty much every problem in the world today on Baby Boomers.
    Welcome home.
    I am merely the Padawan to Shinto's Jedi Master of blaming things on the Baby Boomers.

    Thanatos on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    My gut reaction to this is similar to the veteran health care one. The enormity of the problem is being greatly exaggerated in the run up to next year's elections.

    I'm not completely cynical anout it, it does sound like some shitty U.S. dealings. And I support helping these guys out if they really were on our side. But I'm more inclined to believe in both cases that the issue is being blown out of proportion because it makes a good scandalous story and it helps solidfy a Dem in office in '09.
    Well, the numbers I heard were 100,000 Iraqis who helped us, who were forced to flee the country. With them, we've got 400,000 family members, for a total of 500,000. Of the ones who requested to come to America, we've processed ten.

    Thanatos on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    TalonZahn wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer.

    And I thought I was the only one who blamed pretty much every problem in the world today on Baby Boomers.
    Welcome home.
    I am merely the Padawan to Shinto's Jedi Master of blaming things on the Baby Boomers.

    I'm merely an Obi-Wan Kenobi of boomer hate. Irond Will is like the Yoda of it.

    Shinto on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    I'm eager to see a Sith label.

    MVMosin on
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Canada sort of has the same "problem" in Afghanistasn - just several orders of magnitude less.

    Okay, it was one guy who was a translator and got injured in an attack, and people asked why he wasn't also flown to Landstuhl for treatment.

    THe U.S. is taking approximately 7,000-8,000 refugees, isn't it?

    Andrew_Jay on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Canada sort of has the same "problem" in Afghanistasn - just several orders of magnitude less.

    Okay, it was one guy who was a translator and got injured in an attack, and people asked why he wasn't also flown to Landstuhl for treatment.

    THe U.S. is taking approximately 7,000-8,000 refugees, isn't it?
    They said "7,000," and then when people said "but what about the 100,000 Iraqis who worked for us, who now have a death warrant because of it?" they said "there are no quotas."

    We've taken in 10.

    I think actions speak louder than words.

    Thanatos on
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I was going to say that taking in even 7,000-8,000 refugees is pretty big deal for the U.S., comparing it to the 4,000 or so Sudanese prior to 9/11.

    Then I remembered Vietnam.

    The U.S. accepted more than 800,000 of the "boat people".

    Andrew_Jay on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Canada sort of has the same "problem" in Afghanistasn - just several orders of magnitude less.

    Okay, it was one guy who was a translator and got injured in an attack, and people asked why he wasn't also flown to Landstuhl for treatment.

    THe U.S. is taking approximately 7,000-8,000 refugees, isn't it?
    They said "7,000," and then when people said "but what about the 100,000 Iraqis who worked for us, who now have a death warrant because of it?" they said "there are no quotas."

    We've taken in 10.

    I think actions speak louder than words.

    How many have applied to come here?

    Shinto on
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    ;;plKDj(fhGt;;plKDj(fhGt __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    No nation has ever told America to fuck off with out turning into a cesspool of crime, corruption and fuckuppetry.

    ;;plKDj(fhGt on
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    No nation has ever told America to fuck off with out turning into a cesspool of crime, corruption and fuckuppetry.
    Cute.

    Trite and poor reading comprehension.

    Andrew_Jay on
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    TalonZahnTalonZahn Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    TalonZahn wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Personally, my solution is to fund their relocation by taking $20 off of every Social Security check of every baby boomer.

    And I thought I was the only one who blamed pretty much every problem in the world today on Baby Boomers.
    Welcome home.
    I am merely the Padawan to Shinto's Jedi Master of blaming things on the Baby Boomers.

    I'm merely an Obi-Wan Kenobi of boomer hate. Irond Will is like the Yoda of it.

    I will date myself, but I am the child of the Baby Boomers. In fact a child of the first year open to the title of Baby Boomer.

    While trying to NOT derail the thread..... I can say unabashedly, I blame every, single, problem we have today directly on the Baby Boomer generation and their lack of foresight combined with their inane need to self satisfy. It will only get worse until they all die or are removed from any position of authority/decision making.

    On topic....

    The "Boat People" also not only got to come here because we douched them, they got all kinds of breaks. Loans or grants for starting businesses, compensation for basically coming here, no income tax for X amount of time, and several other aid packages were made available.

    I don't see how they can't offer the same.

    TalonZahn on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    No nation has ever told America to fuck off with out turning into a cesspool of crime, corruption and fuckuppetry.

    Uh...

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    MVMosin wrote: »
    As a refugee from another US-instigated war, I must say that a check and a flat is more than enough.

    In fact, if a foreigner wants to live here, the only help he needs is for everyone to refrain from harassing him for being a foreigner.

    The seven year old that crapped by the corner of the apartment building he was living in because he came from a shelled city that had no working plumbing during his memory and thus didn't know any better and the mother who didn't understand what the problem was at first tells me otherwise. :P

    If you're used to a world that functions similar to the one you find youself in, yeah, I can definately see it not being a problem. The Bosnia they came here from really wasn't though. And although it's not the same as Iraq by any means I can still see culture shock causing some pretty major problems for people.

    HappylilElf on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    No nation has ever told America to fuck off with out turning into a cesspool of crime, corruption and fuckuppetry.

    :lol:

    "Daddy, why can't dat man wead? Is der something wong with him?"

    MVMosin on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    I was going to say that taking in even 7,000-8,000 refugees is pretty big deal for the U.S., comparing it to the 4,000 or so Sudanese prior to 9/11.

    Then I remembered Vietnam.

    The U.S. accepted more than 800,000 of the "boat people".
    If there's one thing America has, it's space.

    Lots and lots of space.

    Thanatos on
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    supabeastsupabeast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    There's plenty of large middle eastern communities in the US many of them made up largely of refugees from various nations. it wouldn't be too hard to find a place these people would be accepted. Help em find a place to fit in and give em some startup cash and thats about it.

    Will tells me that DC has a neighborhood for people from everywhere we've had a military intervention in the last 60 years.

    DC isn't that big. But we do have one for all the El Salvadorans who've been let in since the Earthquake.

    But yeah, this situation is bullshit. Bush & Co. really should have learned from Vietnam, but then again, if they learned anything from that war this one wouldn't have ended up so fucked up. I'm up for a modified version of Thanatos's suggestion; rescind the Bush tax cuts for all the states that voted for him and used the money to support all the Iraqis allies we've screwed over.

    supabeast on
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    MVMosinMVMosin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Canada sort of has the same "problem" in Afghanistasn - just several orders of magnitude less.

    Okay, it was one guy who was a translator and got injured in an attack, and people asked why he wasn't also flown to Landstuhl for treatment.

    THe U.S. is taking approximately 7,000-8,000 refugees, isn't it?
    They said "7,000," and then when people said "but what about the 100,000 Iraqis who worked for us, who now have a death warrant because of it?" they said "there are no quotas."

    We've taken in 10.

    I think actions speak louder than words.

    How many have applied to come here?

    MVMosin on
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