Hello everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster. Anyway, down to business. This is gonna be a very, very long post. Please, only serious answers.
I'll start off with some background info. My wife and I married young, and have been married for almost three years. We met online, she's English and I'm an American. I went to visit her, we hit it off, she eventually came to the States and moved in with me, and we were married fairly quickly (within 6 months of her moving to the States). Immigration process caused no real problems other than the usual governmental bullshit.
I have to admit I'm particulary anti-social, and as such, I don't get out often or have a lot of friends. This isn't to say that I'm incapable of making friends, I'm actually a very friendly guy. I'm just content without them for the most part. My wife is pretty much the opposite... she likes having, making and keeping lots of friends. However, she really doesn't have a whole lot here in the States (mainly, one best friend).
We've had our ups and our downs. Among the problems we've had:
I've been pretty into an online MMO that consumes a lot of my time for the duration of our marriage, and admittedly, it is an addiction, and I am not proud of it. I'm sure that its the #1 cause for our current strife.
After a year and a half into the marriage, she started going to the chat site that where we first met more often. I caught her having a relationship with a guy online, and she was pretty into it at the time. At the same time I noticed she started talking to this guy (who is English), she kept talking about wanting to go home to England... but by herself. This sent up a red flag for me. I had my suspicions for a short while about it her true intentions, and I managed to collect some evidence of her relationship using the auto-logger on the chat program she used, and confronted her with it. We had a big heart-to-heart about things that were wrong with the relationship, especially about how she felt like the third wheel compared to the game I was currently obsessed with. As it eventually turned out, the other guy was simultaneously wooing another woman, which hurt her coupled with the guilt of how she hurt me. We made up, and I came to trust her again.
Now, to the problem at hand:
Unfortunately, months after the above incident, I fell back into my old ways of playing the game more than I paid attention to her. Fast forward to a month ago, on the day before Valentine's of this year. To try and be more involved with me, she started playing the same MMO (and of course, she got to dress up her character as much as she wanted). She made some friends on her own through the game, and one guy in particular was a massive flirt. Now my wife likes to flirt herself, and that's fine, people do that. However, this is one of those guys who liked to push his limits, and would do certain inappropriate things when I was around. I told him I didn't like it, and when my wife found out that I had done this, she flew off the handle about me going behind her back and talking shit to her friends. Up again goes the red flag.
In my paranoia that something might hurt me again, I stumbled upon an MSN conversation with her best friend that I was not meant to see. I found out nothing was between them... but my wife wanted something to be there, and she had confided in her friend this information. Again, I confronted her, and this time, she really railed into me about how unhappy she was with me. She said she felt like I was weighing her down, and that she wanted excitement in her life, and that she had felt the past three years had been wasted. We talked and agreed to give the marriage another few months to make things between us better.
A few days ago, we got in an argument because I asked her about her MSN conversations. I'm not sure why, I think it was out of paranoia again - that I just didn't know what was going on, and that I had to. She told me that I can't trust her, and that she didn't see how things were going to work out between us. She got some clothes, and is now staying at her best friend's house.
The thing with all of this is that I know I want to reconcile with her and give her the perfect marriage she always wanted. I concede that I'm not the perfect husband, nor is my wife perfect either, and through both of our flaws I want to make this work. I concede, again, that the game is a problem, and with the events of this latest episode, logging onto it makes me literally feel sick. I've decided that I'm going to go cold turkey.
She says she needs to spend some time away from me. I'm not entirely sure this is best for either of us. In doing this, she has tried to build walls up around herself and try to become emotionally detached from me. I know that without prolonged contact with me, her feelings towards me will dull over and I'll have 0% chance of making this work again.
I've decided that contact with her needs to be almost forced... and either I'll bring her closer to me or push her away. I've decided this risk is worth taking for various reasons, but mostly because I know she still feels for me, but her head is making up excuses for her to be apart. So far it has worked. She has agreed to see me often, for at least an hour per day. We even have a dinner date tonight.
She is not happy at her friend's house, and feels liek a burden to them. She decided to look at apartments and was considering putting down a deposit for one in a bad neighborhood, but I've managed to convince her against this course of action. Entering into a new lease would not only put stress on both of our finances (she says she can afford it, I know she can't), and more stress in her life will likely make her break down. I've managed to convince her to stay at our place, and I'll move out since I have relatives in the area.
This is going to sound almost manipulative, but its more along the lines of trying to keep her within a kind of circle of my influence. That's a really bad way of putting it, but I can't think of any better analogy at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a controlling guy at all and I certainly mean her absolutely no harm at all. I am simply trying to make this work so I can prove to be a better husband and have her remember why she fell in love with me in the first place, and I think keeping her in familar surroundings (at our place, with our furniture that we bought together, along with our two cats) will help that.
I guess I'm not entirely sure what I am asking exactly. I suppose I want to know if I'm going about all this the right way into trying to make this work. I realize she will need some time to heal from the hurt I have personally caused her, and she really has put a lot more effort into this relationship than I have before her indiscretions, but we can't wait forever on this.
Please, any flames/questions/suggestions/comments/tips are welcome.
tl;dr: My wife says she wants time away from me to heal, I know its an excuse. What's the best way to make things right?
Thanks.
Posts
Also, see a marriage counselor together. You insurance may cover it and go now. A marriage counselor may help solve problems you and you're wife aren't even aware of. I wish I did and now it's too late.
1) Stop being suspicious of her. That means stop reading MSN conversations and don't ask her about them. If she's going behind your back and acting inappropriately then that's obviously a problem but there is absolutely no way you can build a trusting relationship if you're snooping.
2) Stop playing the game. I love video games but if they were interfering in my relationship I'd have no problems giving them up. What would rather have in five years? A successful marriage or a lvl 60 character?
I don't know what to say about the living situation. Try and put yourself in her shoes though. I don't know how thrilled I would be if I found out my gf was reading my chat logs. Ultimately you have no control over how your wife acts, only how you act. You want to provide an environment that will make her want to come back, rather than trying to force her to come back.
Messing around on you is not putting more effort into the relationship, even if you have a problem with playing a game too much. It's not right for her to mess around on you, stop being so hard on yourself.
Remember when Ben Afleck told Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting that he hoped he would drive upto the house one day, and Matt wouldn't even be there? My hope for you both is that you disappear from the net and come back in several months having both given it your all to repair the marriage.
Second, stop playing the fucking game and spend time with your wife. I've been there, and you know what? A good relationship beats the hell out of running Molten Core every week. Start getting out of the house and doing stuff together. But don't expect to be an MMOG addict and still have successful relationships with RL humans. If you want to save your marriage, you need to start deleting some characters (or at least dump them on PlayerAuctions).
Third, stop snooping. If you're really worried that she's cheating use condoms, but don't invade her privacy.
Otherwise, you will not be able to concentrate on doing this and the counseling.
The biggest problem I notice is that every time that we have problems (every 3-4 months?), I become a better person...... for as long as it takes to fix things, and then I digress.
If you're in the same boat as me, your wife is tired of temporary fixes and needs a permanent fix. I know I'll have to fix myself permamnently one day but I can't help but try to put it off untill a later day, when I realize the easy livin' is over for good
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of doom
#1) Get your priorities straightened out: wife goes before internet gaming
#2) Stop snooping: it reeks of lack of trust and no relationship can work without it
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This will be a good start.
Delete your toons, or whatever you have to do, to just get offline.
Get marraige counseling as well, you both will need it to start actually working towards what you want.
Good luck dude, hope it works out well for you and your wife
Sorry to be blunt but I have friends like this and their wives are all great girls who really deserve a better life..
The bottom-line question is do you prefer video games to pussy. If you can answer that honestly, one way or the other, you'll know what you need to do.
I was in this same almost exact situation. So exact I'd swear it was written about me except my GF isn't from England and she didn't go stay somewhere else when we had our problem.
First, you've got to quit playing that fucking game. Time and time again I have seen MMO's destory relationships including almost my own. What I did was cancel the card I used to pay for my account, my chacrters where still there but there was no way I could play. You mentioned finances but do you have a job? If you do why not get a second part time one? More money never hurts and honestly you need to find something to occupy your time.
MMO's severaly cripple your social life and getting that second or first job will get you back out in the real world making more RL friends. I didn't have a job at all and getting one and working mass overtime really helped kick my habit as I simply didn't have time to play even if I wanted too. Once I got everything back under control I was able to come back and still play my MMO but now I have a lot more restraint, a happier GF and an actual social life.
Second, My GF did the same thing as your wife, talked to other guys online, even tried playing with me. What happened in her case is when she did start playing she started falling into the same trap as me, not wanting to go out, not working etc. Thank God I noticed it fast and got her to kick it.
I found out the same way you did by reading a logged chat and I was fucking crushed. I even ended up in a nut house for it for 2 days. If you AND her are intrested in making it work you need to have a good long lengthy talk. Trust is going to be hard, to this day almost 2 years later sometimes I have this need to snoop in a purse or try to read her e-mail. It's always there like a splinter in your mind (Matrix refrences FTW) and it's really hard for me anyway not to do but you have to learn to not do it. It's going to take actual work and effort but in the end if you can reconcile it'll make your realtionship that much stronger.
I don't want to throw a stick in the gears, but your story mirrors my marriage to a T. After I realized my errors and corrected them, she wouldn't come back. I wish you the best - that you can work through these issues and your wife can as well.
I'm pretty naive about relationships, but it seems hypocritical to talk about her emotional detatchment when it's pretty clear you don't talk to her. Why else would you feel the need to "stumble on" :P her MSN logs? I'm not blaming you for her transgressions - she's responsible for her own actions- but something led to that and festered unexposed.
To me it sounds like you look to the short term: is she cheating? How do I keep her close? How do I get her back?
You're right, if you don't talk about it chances are she's not coming back. But STOP trying to manipulate her and going behind her back. Be honest. Tell her that if she goes you're scared you'll lose her forever. If she needs space you should respect that while making your own wishes clear.
If you guys do get back together are you honestly going to make changes? Will it be any different? Is getting back together even the best thing or are you just scared of having no one?
I had mixed feelings when I was told to show her this thread. It could have been seen both as a reaching out from me and one hell of an embarassment for her. I showed her the thread anyway despite this, she has the URL and will continue reading it as it progresses. I doubt she'll make an account here and reply, but she's more than welcome to if she likes.
We had just had dinner, and she wasn't wearing her rings. She had said: "When I walked out the door, I walked out on us." That pretty much killed me. But I think there's still hope for us, even though she can't see it right now. The absolute last thing she wants to do right now is file divorce papers. I still fear that she'll seek comfort... and not through me. But I need to remain faithful, and even if she does do something rash as a rebound thing, I want her to know that I do not fault her in any way. As much as my fears and doubt and paranoia pushes her away, she knows that I only want the best for her. I may or may not be the best, the only thing I can do is improve from where I'm at.
Concerning marriage counseling. I brought that up well before I posted this thread, and she said first that she doubted we had the money for it, and when I told her I'd spare no expense for it, she said that she didn't see how it would help.
As for the game itself, I shattered the CDs, and shredded the CD Keys. I had her dispose of both. I also gave her my account, and she has changed the password, and is welcome to do whatever she wants with it, whether its sell it for some cash or whatever. I don't know what she'll be doing with hers - she started playing the game for me, and she has still been on it. I'm not sure what she still wants out of it.
We still talk on MSN, but its clear she's uncomfortable with doing so. I know my wife better than anyone, and I know she is naturally a very strong person, and she's really had my back and been a hard shoulder to lean on when things went to shit. But when it has come to relationships with other people, I've noticed she'd rather escape from her problems rather than face them, especially if they're particulary close to her. Without elaborating, her mom, for example. If my wife reads this reply, she'll know what I mean. As such, she tends to only respond with very short phrases, and tries to avoid telling me exactly how she feels. She's guarding herself, I understand this, but she really needs to lower it if she feels there's going to be any hope of salvaging this. I know deep down, she truly wants to... If not, she wouldn't still embrace me and kiss me in tears and I'd already have divorce papers served.
I realize that this situation really is one of those "too little, too late" things on my part... But I'm not entirely sure that's the case. I certainly don't think I was the "bad guy" in this relationship - if you take it at face value, her actions were far worse than mine. She admits this, and she keeps saying she really doesn't want to hurt me again... and its one of the reasons she currently doesn't want to be around me. But the thing is, I want to forgive her, and I'm not sure that I can if she doesn't give me the chance to do so. I don't care about being hurt, as right now, this pain of not having her by my side is far greater than anything I could ever experience.
Ultimately, the success of our marriage depends on my next few actions... because if I didn't have my issues, her's wouldn't exist. I'm so tired of the "What Ifs?" and I want to get to the "What Nows?". I know she's frightened of settling into the same old routine that she now resents with all her mind, body and soul... But that doesn't mean I love her any less, and it doesn't mean I'm not going to try to make things better. For those of you who have said that I've really treated her more as a pet than a wife, I thank you. I don't take these comments as an attack. For all I know, I probably have - but when it came to the negative aspects of our relationship only. For sure, we've had some fucking great times, times that really offset the negative aspect of the relationship for me, as I'm more than certain it did for her. We've just hit a breaking point where we really, truly need to figure shit out, and I'm not trying to downplay the situation at all by making it sound less serious. And I would love nothing more than to provide those times for her again, or at the very least, see that she gets them whether or not it'll be with me. In the end, as long as she gets her happiness, I'll be happy too. But I won't let her just sit there and be miserable and continue to focus on how bad her life has been, she needs to get working on it, and she needs to hit the ground running.
On another note, I haven't been able to eat or sleep, almost at all. This week, I had a cumulative 8 hours of sleep. I've eaten maybe a bag of chips, a Taco Bell Chalupa, and half of a 6-inch Subway snadwich. And I've been told that's normal, but its certainly making my own perspective on this situation worse. Waking up every twenty minutes thinking I hear her voice or see her face and rushing to the window or the next room and ending up disappointed is certainly not good for me. Any recommendations or remedies for overcoming these physical ailments I'm experiencing would be helpful, I'm sure for both of us.
Thanks again everyone.
I try to avoid pharmaceuticals wherever possible. In my experience they do more harm than good.
As far as the game goes, well done. Good luck for the future though: I have obsessive tendencies too and they usually just transfer to something else.
Honestly, I don't know if your marriage is salvageable. I really kind of doubt that your addiction to this game is the root of the problem. I think it's an easy target, and maybe even a manifestation of the real problems. I think it's obvious that you're both lacking something in the relationship and are looking for it elsewhere, you in your game and her in her psuedo-online relationships. I'm sorry, but the "need time to heal" thing is bullshit. You need time to heal when you've ended a relationship, not when you're trying to save one. Maybe she's ended it without quite realizing or admitting it yet.
I think there are definite problems with respect on both ends. Sure, spending all your time playing a game is shitty, but it doesn't even begin to excuse having online relationships with guys. One thing I've found is that early on in relationships after people have moved in together, there's a disconnect with attention. Generally, the guy seems to have something he likes doing, like video games or watching sports, and the woman has made the guy her hobby. My wife was the same way. It really helps for her to find things she can do while you're doing your thing, then later you can spend time together. You both have to have your own time.
One thing that would really help is for her to go out and meet some new friends so she can have that part of her life. It's not your job to fulfill all of her needs and you just won't be able to. My wife likes watching certain local bands and goes out with her friends to do it all the time. I don't particularly like them, so I stay home and get some gaming done. Occasionally one will do the other. It works out great.
There are also trust issues that need to be worked on. You admittedly have reason not to trust her, but for this to work, you're going to have to anyway. Yes, you may get hurt again, and if so then it's time to think about ending it. You can't stop it by playing police officer. Either it happens or it doesn't. I'm kinda of the "give them enough rope to hang themselves with" school. It's worked out well enough so far.
I'd also recommend something me and my wife do, what we call "date night". We try to do it about once a week, usually Friday night. Generally it's a time for us to put our other things aside and do something together for a few hours, even something as simple as getting a movie off of PPV and watching it together. Sometimes it's just talking about things with no interruptions. It works out pretty well and gives us that together time we both need. There's also the possibility that she had an unrealistic expectation of marriage. Marriage is not spending every waking moment staring deep into each others' eyes. If she expected that "new relationship" feeling to last for the rest of your lives, she set herself up for disappointment. Marriages are a far different beast than normal relationships. You have to find your groove where self and other meet and keep them in it.
I think doing these should help, but you always need to be ready to consider the possibility that you two just aren't meant for the long haul. Don't try to save the marriage for the marriage's sake. I wish you luck, because it's not going to be easy.
Look: I don't know where you are in the faith thing: but I am a Christian, working toward being a pastor. (at 9 credits a semester...) That said, within my worldview there is additional advice I would give beyond behavior modification- just not here. PM me for that anytime.
Difficult.
It gets harder to change a belief as it grows. In this case, it's been growing for a while. There's the rebreak of trust, adding on a ton of extra baggage, and in this case the nature of the disagreement means she has had time to grow away from you and no longer depend on you for emotional support.
That's a hard one to come back from. Bad relationships are like bad drugs, once you go through what it takes to break through the addiction, you get pretty damn wary of ever doing it again.
Right now, there is no evidence that you've changed. Sure you broke some stuff, ensured you couldn't get that specific experience back again, but you can rebuy new things. You can get new stuff. Without time and opportunity, it is impossible to prove internal change. I don't buy it myself actually. Too soon. You haven't even begun to hit the shakes yet, where your head craves sweet stimulation and nothing else seems to do the trick. You haven't been through spontaneous reoccurance, where the impulse hits you hard out of the blue after being dry for a while. More importantly, perhaps you haven't addressed why it is that you become involved in these things to begin with. All you know right now is that it was bad, and so you removed it.
That's not enough. And what would be enough you don't have right now, because it takes time to prepare. Right now, all you have is empty promises. Promises are not a usuable good, they do not fulfill or create a need. Moreover, it is an empty promise stacked on another empty promise: that you can change, and that she will be satisfied with that change. Because you have broken trust once already, you will need something tangible- something real, progressive and undeniable - as evidence that you are capable of keeping your word. You're promising a lot, there needs to be some assurances you can deliver.
So with that in mind, I would say that forcing an action right now would be seriously disadvised. To enter into negotiations now would also force an evaluation of what is actually present in the offering - currently at zero value. If you do force the issue now, you can guarentee a loss, because anything you ask for is more than what you currently have.
Emotion and frustration often demand aggressive action, but you need to set that aside for now. In many ways, your issues (as you've presented them) revolve around a lack of self-control. Considering it is your innate character being put to the test, now would be a good time to demonstrate that you have that control. You can put an active demonstration of self-control there on the negotiation table and it will be a real, tangible thing you can offer. It's a start.
You know, if you were completely fucked right now, I'd tell you - I'm good like that. But I don't think you are, not completely. Yeah, you're hanging by a thread, and really it could go at any time. But what tells me you have half a prayer in this situation is the stall for time. The decision to not do anything rash. That's excellent. The stall is an action that belies any words that may exist, because giving time is a type of investment. Interestingly enough, the time being given to you is similar in nature to your own offer of self-control. Your offer requires time, her offer gives time. How much time is up for debate.
Hopefully, it will allow you to gather at least some shred of evidence that you can make good on your intentions. Let's take the 'I can change' promise, and set it to the side for now. That's a toughy, and let's take the second, 'I can change into something that would satisfy you.'. As you can see, it's a two parter.
Again, let's take the first part and set it aside. The next bit requires that you know what would satisfy her. You said in your post "I know my wife better than anyone..." but do a quick self-check to see if that isn't a touch of hyperbole, or if perhaps it's just something you hope is true. You've been spending a lot of time away lately, and people's interests change. What was satisfying before may not be satisfying now, and your promise demands that you be in that loop. Are you really exciting enough for her? Do you know what would make her heart flutter and her pulse race? Do you know what she is expecting out of life, or what she wants tomorrow for breakfast?
I would hope that you have these answers. In fact, I would hope that you have at least one hundred of them. One hundred things you know your wife personally wants, likes or dislikes. A hundred things is enough to establish that you know more things about your wife than you can retain at any given time. I would write these things down. It's easy enough to think you can do it, most people can do about twenty at a run before they start really thinking. Try it, see how far you get. Is it hard? Yes, but not nearly as hard as winning back a wife. Hopefully it will get you thinking about what it is exactly, aside from attention, that she's been getting somewhere else.
The next task is similar, but far more serious - one hundred things you love about your wife. One hundred distinctly different intimate details. This is hard to do, even for those in a healthy relationship. It takes time and effort. Don't give up until you're finished, and by all means, keep going if you have more. This exercise has two reasons, the first being that your wife has enough of your interest that you have dedicated a solid portion of your thinking to her. The second being that in your fight with addiction, you are going to need a long list of things worth fighting for. I want you to keep that list in an easily accessable place, somewhere you can read it if you feel yourself slipping. Remember how much of a pain in the ass it was to write, and how goddamn desperate you were when you wrote it. This is one of many secrets to the magic of One Hundred Things: it preserves the mindset of its writer enough to allow almost perfect recall back to an emotive moment.
So - if you've you've been following along so far, you now have at least six pages of handwritten evidence to suggest that you are capable of keeping your promise, and are willing to make a genuine and sincere effort to follow through. This is a real, tangible good which can now be placed on the table to bargain for something else. In my opinion, the next thing to go for is time. You need time to prove that you can break your habit, and you need time to prove that you can pay attention to your wife in a meaningful way. Even after all that effort, you need to keep in mind that it is no guarentee. I can't speak for your wife, and I can't make a call to see if negotiations are in good faith, or if she's just saving you from too much pain all at once by not dropping the hammer. Whatever you come up with, you must understand that your efforts do not entitle you to anything. They are only a part of your offer, and that offer can be refused.
The last piece of advice I would give you is in regards to expectations. It would be foolhardy to expect the same relationship you once had back again. It will be different and unusual, and sometimes that can be frustrating. This is okay, because your old relationship had its issues which resulted in certain choices along the way - some choices which you don't want to happen again. Be aware of falling back into old habits, not just about gaming, but those regarding comfort and complacency. Be concious of the need to build new experiences together. Of all the things you do, spending time doing active things will strengthen the bond between you as you start to enage life together as a team again instead of the more indiviualistic approach that crept in from before. Because emotions and distrust will be running rampant, you need to be aware that your impulses may not be the right answer for what the situation demands.
When rebuilding a healthy relationship, (or indeed even when just within one) there are nine principles that govern our willingness to form a healthy bond with another person. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfullness and self-control. Ask yourself, especially when angry or upset, whether or not what you are about to do conforms with these ideals. A good action will abide by all of them, a lesser action only a few, and a negative or hurtful action won't correspond to any. Be fair and just in all things, and with patience life will open it's door to you.
Good luck.