Man I love reading about high-level fighting game shit. That might sound sarcastic, but it's sincere!
I come so close to groking it, but I always just sort of skim along the surface, picking out bits and pieces
It's like taking two years of Spanish and trying to read some Gabriel Garcia Marquez. You get enough to tell the text is great. It feels like the true greatness is barely beyond your grasp, but you still sorta innately sense that it's actually way beyond your grasp.
It's a cool feeling! I usually only run into it in foreign languages and math.
There's probably a German word for that sensation.
Yeah, I really love learning about high-level play.
I don't think I'll ever have the execution to do the things I read about or talk about (I'd have to devote way more time than I'm willing to give a single video game), but the theory is a whole lot of fun for me to participate in.
She reminds me a lot more of Dizzy from GG than a vortex character like Ibuki.
So like Dizzy she is probably hot garbage until you master her and she becomes a real terror.
Current opinions from people who are actually good at fighting games seem to be pretty down on Rise. I'd like her to be a great character; but if she is like Dizzy, that's not much consolation for me.
So, for those who are curious, here are my problems with how Rise plays in P4U. I'll spoiler it for those who don't give a shit about fighting games.
So Rise is supposed to be an "oki" character (short for "okizeme"), which means her typical gameplan is to get her opponent into a knockdown state so she can (hopefully) trap them with ambiguous crossups when they stand up. A good example of this type of character is Ibuki from Street Fighter 4.
Okay, so, that's a little more technical that what I typically play, but I figured I'd give it a shot. Except the tools she has to enable this gameplan (or any gameplan) just aren't very good.
Her normals are okay, but she does pretty low damage and most of them don't have good range.
She doesn't have much in the way of decent projectiles. Her 5C and j.C are tiny, slow and not much good for zoning or keep-away. The Scan status from her D normals provides a really nice buff, but I feel like it doesn't last nearly as long as it should. Especially since the D normals have long startups, do basically negligible damage, are easily blocked and give your opponent plenty of time to hit your Persona.
On the plus side, her skill attacks and supers are mostly pretty good. Arrow Rain is the obvious standout, being her best ranged and best oki option (and it gets even better when the opponent is scanned). Platinum Disc is nice, but it has a surprisingly short range (it would be really nice to have it go full screen while the opponent is scanned). Hysterical Slap does decent damage and does a ground bounce instead of a knockdown, so if I ever got good at doing actual combos I could probably take good advantage of that. However, Tetrakarn and Makarakarn just aren't good enough for the risk involved in activating them (I haven't used them much myself, but nobody on the Dustloop forums seems to like the shields in their current form). Live on Stage is a cool idea for super and can do a whole lot of damage, but I hate that the rhythm-game nature of it makes the damage unreliable AND runs out the clock (I actually lost to a Time Out while fighting Speed because that damn song lasted for so long). Rock You seems good in theory, but the music notes don't do anything unless you detonate them yourself, and most of the detonation options are close-range. The only reliable ranged option is her 5B, which is REALLY unsafe if it doesn't hit the opponent.
But again, most of her best options are at mid and close range. And unlike most characters who function well at that range, she doesn't have any mobility options outside of the generic tools everyone else has. Hell, even Yukari has a couple nice mobility skills, and she's mostly a zoning character. Speaking of which, Rise's zoning kinda sucks, too. Like I said before, her fireballs are too small and don't last long enough to be very effective for that role; and Platinum Disc can be pretty easily avoided and/or punished by an opponent who remembers how to jump (even more than most horizontal projectiles). So not only does Rise have a hard time getting in on characters like Yukiko, but she's also going to have a hard time trading punches against characters who love to be at close/mid-range (like Yu).
She just seems to require a whole lot of work for not a lot of damage.
I agree with all of what you wrote, but my biggest issue is her rhythm game. How hard would it have been to make the symbols in the circles line up with my fightstick buttons, and labeled as such instead of A/B/C/D terminology?
Last time I played a fighting game was a barbecue at a buddy's house. He had a Dreamcast, with whichever Marvel vs. Capcom came out on the Dreamcast.
You could pick three characters for your team. I picked a guy that looked like a Lego, and two other people. I can't remember who the other two were, because all I did was some move where the Lego dude whipped out a table cloth. I would do that move, over and over, like a demon with a pitchfork. I would cackle, unceasingly.
I had a trick where I could get Izanagi attacking from behind you and I could make a unblockable situation
Ugh why does no one play fighting games around here
Yu is ridiculous
Every time I see one online I just kind of groan because I know it's going to be a situation where I need to break out all kinds of crazy tricks to do any kind of damage, and my opponent can pretty much be asleep and they're still probably going to win
i liked the original p4a because my friend could just NOT figure out the timing on getting away from kanji's command grab and i got him with it again and again and AGAIN
i liked the original p4a because my friend could just NOT figure out the timing on getting away from kanji's command grab and i got him with it again and again and AGAIN
i liked the original p4a because my friend could just NOT figure out the timing on getting away from kanji's command grab and i got him with it again and again and AGAIN
Which one?
His ground-based one is pretty damn tricky, especially since he has super-armor during the startup (so you probably aren't going to just hit him out of it). That's the one that Speed did most of his damage with once his aerial grab stopped being effective.
Rise's IAD j.B is really good. Like, every time you think about pressing 5B you should probably just IAD j.B instead. And her corner lockdown seems pretty nuts.
Rise's IAD j.B is really good. Like, every time you think about pressing 5B you should probably just IAD j.B instead. And her corner lockdown seems pretty nuts.
They should've sent a poet
+1
masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
I love fighting games so much
I'm pretty ass at them but everything about watching them and playing a match where there's an even skill level is so much fun.
I have a pretty strong understanding of fighting game shit on a mental level but actually putting all that shit into practice is where my rain shorts out
You jump, and then hit him in the face when he whiffs
i never said my friend was good
To be fair to your friend, you don't have a lot of margin for error when dealing with Kanji.
Even if you know what you're doing, slipping up once and getting hit by This'll Hurt will take off around a third (or sometimes even a half) of a characters' HP. Just from that one grab.
How is Arc System Works with long-term tweaking to a game? Those sort of issues Stilts has with Rise, couldn't they be fixed with some patch tweaks?
Good though they tend to alternate patches with new versions of the game that you have to buy (but also contains new characters) to get the latest balance tweaks. Which is what Ultimax is.
It is also well well well worth listening to the.commentary. They both get so fucking into what is happening and the whole atmosphere is real infectious
It is such a fantastic finals
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
if there was a way to just mute all fighting game commentators, that'd be good. real good
I know so little about fighting game culture that I thought the commentary I heard was really helpful
I imagine that me admitting this is like hearing somebody say that football commentary is illuminating
Fighting game commentators tend to fall back on the rhetorical trick of saying "oh!" over and over whenever something interesting happens.
It can be somewhat grating.
Ah! There's the rub!
I don't really know what "interesting" means, in a context I'm unfamiliar with. Like, it's two characters doing superficially similar animations/movements. But that "Oh!" is enough for me to realize that it's not the same move, the same animation. That this particular context is worth paying attention to.
I totally get how that's frustrating to more experienced folks, don't get me wrong. Like I said, I feel the same about football commentary.
Posts
Yeah, I really love learning about high-level play.
I don't think I'll ever have the execution to do the things I read about or talk about (I'd have to devote way more time than I'm willing to give a single video game), but the theory is a whole lot of fun for me to participate in.
Current opinions from people who are actually good at fighting games seem to be pretty down on Rise. I'd like her to be a great character; but if she is like Dizzy, that's not much consolation for me.
I'll probably just start using Yukari as my main.
I had a trick where I could get Izanagi attacking from behind you and I could make a unblockable situation
Ugh why does no one play fighting games around here
I agree with all of what you wrote, but my biggest issue is her rhythm game. How hard would it have been to make the symbols in the circles line up with my fightstick buttons, and labeled as such instead of A/B/C/D terminology?
You could pick three characters for your team. I picked a guy that looked like a Lego, and two other people. I can't remember who the other two were, because all I did was some move where the Lego dude whipped out a table cloth. I would do that move, over and over, like a demon with a pitchfork. I would cackle, unceasingly.
I was undefeated.
Yu is ridiculous
Every time I see one online I just kind of groan because I know it's going to be a situation where I need to break out all kinds of crazy tricks to do any kind of damage, and my opponent can pretty much be asleep and they're still probably going to win
Everything else was just button mashing
You mean jumping and punishing?
Which one?
His ground-based one is pretty damn tricky, especially since he has super-armor during the startup (so you probably aren't going to just hit him out of it). That's the one that Speed did most of his damage with once his aerial grab stopped being effective.
You jump, and then hit him in the face when he whiffs
i never said my friend was good
Took me a while to realize that even normal grabs get you while crouched in P4A.
They should've sent a poet
I'm pretty ass at them but everything about watching them and playing a match where there's an even skill level is so much fun.
As I understand it, Marie can make it rain
To be fair to your friend, you don't have a lot of margin for error when dealing with Kanji.
Even if you know what you're doing, slipping up once and getting hit by This'll Hurt will take off around a third (or sometimes even a half) of a characters' HP. Just from that one grab.
Once you learn how to turtle him he runs out of options very quickly, though
This grand final set during EVO 2014 was so good
Yeah, that's one for the ages
He got A LOT more neutral tools in U.
"32 minutes? Oh, my, no. I'm curious, but I ain't 32-minutes-curious."
Good though they tend to alternate patches with new versions of the game that you have to buy (but also contains new characters) to get the latest balance tweaks. Which is what Ultimax is.
Yukiko vs Mitsuru, which is, like, the most stereotypical finals you could choose.
Still pretty cool, though.
It is worth every minute, the build up for the whole series is great.
But maybe save it till you can have it on in the back while you do something else.
Skip to 13:15 and watch the last round specifically.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
That is the most baller way to end a grand finals.
I know so little about fighting game culture that I thought the commentary I heard was really helpful
I imagine that me admitting this is like hearing somebody say that football commentary is illuminating
As far as I can tell, the first tournament Ultimax will be in is the Northeast Championships in December.
http://shoryuken.com/2014/09/29/atlus-providing-1500-bonus-to-persona-4-arena-ultimaxs-prize-pool-at-northeast-championships-15/
It is absolutely worth the time investment
It is also well well well worth listening to the.commentary. They both get so fucking into what is happening and the whole atmosphere is real infectious
It is such a fantastic finals
I was in the crowd.
It was worth the flight, that's for damn sure.
Fighting game commentators tend to fall back on the rhetorical trick of saying "oh!" over and over whenever something interesting happens.
It can be somewhat grating.
Ah! There's the rub!
I don't really know what "interesting" means, in a context I'm unfamiliar with. Like, it's two characters doing superficially similar animations/movements. But that "Oh!" is enough for me to realize that it's not the same move, the same animation. That this particular context is worth paying attention to.
I totally get how that's frustrating to more experienced folks, don't get me wrong. Like I said, I feel the same about football commentary.
Just funny to see it from the other side, is all