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Sub-sub-sub-Sublimusssss!

SublimusSublimus Artist.nowhereRegistered User regular
edited August 2013 in Artist's Corner
Hello all. I've been drawing a lot more, and as such, I have some stuff to post!

For now though, I'll just post this one piece that I need some help on. (I'll upload some other stuff when I get home from work.)

So, this started out as a piece where I was like "whatever, good enough. I just need to finish something, anything, So I trudged on it for a looong time (long for me, short attention span and all). But I'm at a point where Im kind of like, "wait, this design is terrible and makes no sense at all!" This may have come on because I've been thinking a lot more about design lately.

The original "concept" was just generic soldier guy. Terrible, I know. But I just wanted to finish something. I put a thing on his soldier thinking "asymmetry is good design!" But it looks stupid and non functional, and it no reason to be there. The helmet looks cool enough, but it kinda looks like a pilot helmet, and this guy doesn't look like a pilot, really. So it too makes little sense. The color make no sense and were more a product of my being bad at painting and just picking any colors that look OK.

So I ditched the shoulder lamp thing, but kept the asymmetry a little bit. Decided he was kind of like a stealth commando. So I toned the colors down (yeah sure the bright orange may be no good for stealth, but the contrast looks cool). Gave hime some 'nades, and changed the helmet.


Anyways, I just wanted to pop in my redesign here and get some feedback to see if I should paint up the new one (which I like a lot better) or just keep polishing the turd. Considering I should maybe tweak the pose a little bit, maybe I should just redraw the guy. I don't know! I need some advice...

sidebyside.jpg

Sublimus on
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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Aaaaand, here are some other WIPs, doodles, and otherwise unclassified work...

    dwarf_barkeep.jpg

    Falcon_Assassin.jpg

    RockeyShore.jpg

    landingZone.jpg

    CreepyCanyon.jpg

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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Your characters are looking rather stiff and blocky. You're drawing the characters as if they're being seen straight-on, at every elevation of the character (i.e. "floor-level" at the feet, "eye-level" at the head), which causes them to look rather flat. Try drawing a character while considering that it's an object in space, with the rules of perspective applied.

    As an example:
    44078027fk0.jpg

    I'd suggest you draw the body first, try to get a strong gesture out of it, and then try adding clothes on top that don't interfere with the gesture, too.

    NightDragon on
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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Thanks ND! I agree, the characters are really stiff. I think a lot of it has to do with the boring static poses I've been putting them in, but probably also what you have mentioned. I've tried considering perspective when drawing them out I guess I just need to push it more!

    Also, I forgot to post this guy, haha. RAMSHARK!

    RamShark.jpg

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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    Alright well my internet is being King of Dicks apparently, but I will not be deterred from posting the image I wanted, dammit!

    If you search "character perspective" on Google, this is the image I found and tried to post.

    Sub.jpg

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    AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Here, ND, You have to include the 'http://' :

    44078027fk0.jpg

    New forum syntax is picky picky

    Agentflit on
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    What....what.....I did that! And then when I came back to this thread, it just had the image name in text under the spoiler....(though maybe that was just because my internet was being stupid, I don't know)....thanks for posting it for me, regardless! :P

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, ND. When I first checked the thread, your image was working fine. Probably your internet.

    Edit: Either that, or you're crazy. IDK

    Sublimus on
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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Still beating this one into the grave.

    "Fuck! It's not cool enough! Fuckit, add a robot arm..."

    gen3_soldier2.jpg

    Sublimus on
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    NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    that is one long ass robot arm!

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Zerg, Yeah. I took some liberties with it. Thanks for commenting!

    Here are some random doodles.

    Ackbar.jpg

    dealwithit.jpg

    muto.jpg

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Any tips on making him look more jumping and less crouching?

    lilArmyDude.jpg

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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    I think it would do wonders if you referenced these poses. There's no shame in it man.

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    Toji SuzuharaToji Suzuhara Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    Is he coming down from a jump? It's not instantly clear which way he's going, but you should emphasize the inertia of the massive gun thing in whichever way he's heading. Having his legs split with one foot lower than the other would help make it not look like a crouch, too.

    AlphaFlag_200x40.jpg
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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    mustang: yeah, I'm trying to work more ref into my work. I've gone so long without using it that I don't always know where to get it. So I couldn't really find a ref of the pose I wanted.. :/

    Toji: I guess I was thinking he was at the apex of the jump. But I've had other mention having one leg a little lower.

    Thanks both of you!

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    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    When worst comes to worst I take take a photo of myself using a tripod and a remote shutter. Which avoids the embarassing option of getting someone to take a photo of you in a ridiculous pose.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Time to jump on my bed with a trash can on my shoulders then!

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Finished this thing. I guess. Just wanted it done...
    gen3_soldier.jpg

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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    Are you happy with it?

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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Don't touch it anymore, do some gesture drawings. In My opinion stiffness is something that has to be fix like teaching kids not to be afraid of a cold pool. Stiffness tends to come from a lack of confidence than a lack of skill. You're being too measured, careful and slow, and you need to trust your knowledge and hand to make wild poses and push the curves.

    Do some stuff and don't let yourself get stuck on one dude for a month.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Sublimus wrote: »
    Finished this thing. I guess. Just wanted it done...

    Angle between the eyes and the gun don't match - he's looking forward and shooting about 45 degrees off to the side of what he's looking at.
    Gun's flat to the page and he's halfway between than and looking at us.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    @magictoaster. Yes and no. The main problem with this thing from the beginning was that it wasn't very interesting or thought out. I changed it up mid way through to make it at least a little interesting, but without redrawing the whole thing I don't think I can be completely happy with it. But I the reason why I took to 'final' despite thinking that about it was that I feel like I need more practice with the final steps, and need to get into the habit of taking things to final. So I'm happy that I finished it, but think maybe I should have found something more worth taking to finish.

    @iruka I agree. Stiffness is an issue with all of my stuff. I think a big part of that is confidence, like you said. I didn't want to spend as much time on this thing as I did, but like I said, I just wanted to finish something. But I think I should be a bit more judicious, and only take things worth taking to final all the way. (I find it hard to know what to finish though.)

    @tastyfish A very good point! I messed that one up, haha

    Thanks for all of the input guys! It means a lot.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Hello people! I know I kind of come and go a lot on these boards, but I wanted to share more recent work.

    I just lost my job at Zynga so now I'm dipping my toes in the freelance water to see what it's all about.

    Anyway, I hope to update more, and get back in the habit of drawing more (didnt get to draw a whole bunch at Zynga).

    Anyway here is some stuff. Hopefully better than the last time I posted. C&C most welcome!

    Gargoyale.jpg

    swordgob.jpg

    oldpirate.jpg

    Cheers!

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    tapeslingertapeslinger Space Unicorn Slush Ranger Social Justice Rebel ScumRegistered User regular
    Marked improvement! Love that dragon especially.

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    IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Sorry about the losing the zynga job, that sucks!

    The pirate looks great, it seems like you are gaining some sureness in your work. The places where your rendering is smooth and sure look the best. Your looser rendering isn't quite confident enough to come off as purposeful, so the background of the dragon pic looks more unfinished than far away. I would maybe play with some different blending methods.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Thanks for the replies!

    @Iruka, I agree. "Implying detail" by drawing loose is not yet working for me, haha.Probably because I just draw characters on blank bg's too much. I have a few things I'm working on now that will give me some good practice with it. Thanks again!

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Here is something I did for a client. Hopefully the bg isn't as shitty. I think part of the problem was in my mind when trying to imply detail I figured you could just fudge it. But really you still have to draw it, just in a lot less detail.

    GAK_ChimpBuilders.png

    And here is a doodle from last night's hang out! So much fun on the hang outs. Next time I'll talk more. :)


    gobking.png

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    ScosglenScosglen Registered User regular
    Sublimus wrote: »
    Here is something I did for a client. Hopefully the bg isn't as shitty. I think part of the problem was in my mind when trying to imply detail I figured you could just fudge it. But really you still have to draw it, just in a lot less detail.

    GAK_ChimpBuilders.png

    I'm not very concerned about the background. The much bigger issue I see with this image is how all of the figures blend together and are not clearly separated in space. There is some minor rim-lighting that I'm guessing was meant to help combat this, but it doesn't really address the problem, and if you're at the point where your silhouettes don't read clearly without using rim-lighting then you have big problems regardless.

    A clearer lighting model and some subtle atmospherics could have helped separate the figures some more.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Thanks for the advice scosglen! Lighting is definitely a weak point of mine. Color too. Hell painting in general! haha.

    Maybe I should post a work in progress instead of 'finished' work. oh jeeze.... OK. Here is something I'm working on, looks like most of the same issues will be in this one too unless I do something about it.

    God this things sucks, and I usually don't like posting wips bc they look like shit. But, time to air out the dirty laundry, I guess.

    Bandits.png

    There is a lot about this one I don't like. Skin tones are all wrong. Front guys left (his) axe is funny looking. and the two back guys look pretty stiff. :(

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    MyGfsDogMyGfsDog Registered User regular
    Haha, the ramshark made me laugh. See me laughing? Hahaha! Anyways, I think that the soldier guy from the very top could use slightly thinner upper legs. Just a tad. Right now he's looking a little stubby.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Thanks for the comments GFsDog!

    Here is an update to the bandits thing. Plus a pencil sketch. I realized I miss pencil, haha. I should do more.

    Bandits2.png

    victarion.jpg

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Update on the barbarian thing. Plus some random stuff.

    Bandits3.png

    TheHound.jpg

    kneelinglady.jpg

    drventure.jpg

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    MyGfsDogMyGfsDog Registered User regular
    VVVENTUUUURRRRE!!

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    Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator Mod Emeritus
    I think you could really stand to do more thumbnailing before going this far into the multi-figure compositions, and work out how to organize the figures in terms of broader compositional ideas and shapes.

    Right now these sort of have the look of someone setting up a tripod pointed at a bunch of guys in an empty room, and then dropping a greenscreen'd in BG behind them, rather than being really integrated into the environment or the situation in a meaningful, deliberate way.

    A good example of what I mean by broad compositional shapes would be Frazetta's work- specifically, in how often he sets up his composition to form triangular shapes. That's not to say all your compositions need to be triangles, but it serves as a good demonstration of how organizing around a simple idea can create a lot of power in a composition in a lot of different ways.

    Take this one- the chains, the arms, and the tapering up lead upward coil of the snake all serve to lead the eye up to that snake head, forming a triangle. The fact the triangle is so symmetrical makes the composition feel powerful, and solid.
    http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.php?loc=ffcolr32.jpg
    The back of the horse and the woman, and the front legs of the horse create a triangle that lead up to the woman's face. He could have just made her on riding a horse normally, it's back parallel to the ground; but he designed this pose specifically to strengthen the composition in this way.
    http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.php?loc=frank_frazetta_madamederringer.jpg
    The motion of the left man's body, and the right giant's leg and torso form a triangle with the apex being the upraised ax. The fact this traingle is off-balance makes the picture as a whole feel a bit off-balance, in keeping with the dynamic nature of the action- it's not an even fight, so it's not an even triangle.
    http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.php?loc=snow_.jpg
    The clouds, the mountains, and the foreground rocks all form a series of triangles leading towards the knight. Beyond just drawing the eye, it also exaggerates the perspective a bit to give a feeling of speed.
    http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.php?loc=f_40.jpg
    How do you make a crazy dragon monster not dominate your composition? Make him be the legs of the triangle, leading up to your characters. (NSFW)
    http://frankfrazetta.org/viewimage.php?loc=frank_frazetta_jongarfightsback.jpg

    I could go on all day pointing out all the triangle compositions he uses, but I think you get the idea. (Go through that gallery and try to spot them yourself, it's something that it's hard to unsee once you know to look for it.) Whether you're a fan of Frazetta or not, you can see that part of what made what he did so popular and enduring is having this strong, abstract guiding principle working for him- even in paintings with tons and tons of figures and details, that basis is always there.

    So next time you start a picture, it's worth doing some (or a ton) of thumbnails working out how to organize your figures with such a guiding principle yourself, rather than treating the picture simply as a series of separate, individual objects more or less placed adjacent to each other. In a composition, everything relates to everything else, and must be treated as a whole to be effective.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Wow, Bacon. Thanks for the write up! Great examples. I always liked Frazetta's work, but I never looked at it in that way. Composition was clearly always in the front of his mind. In hindsight, I definitely had a mindset of just making sure all of the content was there, without thinking too much about the best/most artistic way of presenting all of the info.

    I think even some thumbnails after the fact might be good for me.

    Thanks again!

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Some random junk from the past week or so.

    mechquad.jpg

    uburorc.jpg

    knightstudy.jpg


    and this thing, which I pretty much hate. But whatever...

    vulcan_town.jpg

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Hey dudes!

    Here is a new illo in the works. No NDA on this on so I'll try and update as I go, so I can have you hawks looking over my shoulder and pecking at me when I mess up!

    Here are the characters. Described by client as;

    "The first might be a female dwarf in Valkyrie-esk battle armor. She has an axe or hammer in had that might still have blood on it.

    Behind her is a "wizard," which I put in quotes because he's really just some guy who found a magic wand and decided to call himself a wizard. He's actually quite burly and looks more like a fighter or barbarian. He's probably wearing robes that are too small for him. He has a wand, but only minimal control over it, so it might be doing something like sprouting flowers.

    Way in the back, near the right edge of the painting is a monkey, dressed in fine clothing and wearing a monocle. He has a backpack full of maps. He has one map out and is carefully scrutinizing it."

    AD_characters.jpg

    And a quick thumb of the proposed layout.

    AD_thumb.jpg

    Feel free to leave feedback!

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    Progress on this thing. Small change to the wizard guy was asked by the client.

    Abstract_Dungeon1.jpg

    And some other random bits.

    hunsketch.jpg

    mansion.jpg

    xesa_barb_lines.jpg

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    Red RaevynRed Raevyn because I only take Bubble Baths Registered User regular
    I am not feeling this fantasy trilogy. Over all, I don't see a relationship between the characters. One is ready for action and scowling off screen, another is disinterestedly looking at a map, and the third is looking in yet another direction (which I believe would just be a wall of rock, if we're looking from inside a cave?) and sort of doing nothing. In the thumbnail both dwarf and mage seem to be looking inside, but now it looks like she is inside looking deeper and he's outside looking to the right. Some ideas would be to have the monkeyman peeking up from his map at the disturbance (he could be annoyed, curious, surprised etc), or the mage's wand backfiring in the process of trying to assist the dwarf.

    The values seem to have gotten washed out, with that good contrast in the thumbnail replaced by a whole lot of middle grey. The ceiling over the top felt stronger as well.

    The dwarf's face looks really male to me. I know dwarven women can be a bit stout or even hairy, but I think it is the blocky facial features in human proportion. The angular jaw and square chin in particular are quite masculine. Her stance is pretty awkward (if you aren't mid-combat why start with a backhand, and is she left-handed on purpose?) and her right hand's fingers seem unnaturally large. Most importantly, if you hold up string or a piece of paper to measure her arms then straighten it out, she'd be nearly dragging her knuckles along the ground.

    Keep fiddling! Your middle stages of polish look good (the fabric, armor details, hair) but they'd be better served by a more cohesive starting point.

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    SublimusSublimus Artist. nowhereRegistered User regular
    @Red-Raevyn Thanks for the crit! You're right-on with a lot of the issues. A lot of it is a carry over from the stuff @angel_of_bacon brought up too.

    Made some adjustments. I think it's much better already. hope the client doesn't mind.

    Abstract_Dungeon2.jpg

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    ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    I think the little cartographer monkey man is a pretty neat design.

    I agree with Red Raevyn about the values, right now everything is pretty much at a midtone and is looking muddy. If you squint your eyes and look, you're not going to see much separation between your characters. There'd be hardly any at all if you removed that rim-lighting on the dwarven lady.

    Another result of just sticking to the midtones, is that your lighting is going to be just as washed out. At the moment it looks like the sun might be behind the characters, but really it looks more like it's just a boring overcast day.

    I went in with an overlay layer and quickly punched up a few value differences to help the separation and show you what I mean.

    Abstract_Dungeon2.jpg~original

    Also, I've quickly scribbled in a few more foreground and background elements. Remember, the more overlap there is in a composition, the greater the illusion of depth with be.

    Keep up the good work.

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