I am also curious as to how they are going to change the ladder. I wonder if they will try a new system that goes off of individual skill some how...how many kills and assists you get vs deaths. Or "how you positively impacted the game regardless of a win or loss". For example if you go 21/3 and you team is just a bunch of retards and you lose. Maybe you will still get some ELO because YOU should not have lost that game if you had 1 or 2 not full retards on your team. Thus, even if you lose games your ELO will increase until you are "matched" with people of your skill level. Then you will win games more easily etc. Or..i dunno stuff
Despite a lot of the belly aching we hear about the ELO system, there isn't anything you can do to 'fix' it. W/L is the ONLY stat that matters, and if you try to use something else, like KDA, people will never play support and do absolutely stupid things to get a kill when they should give it to someone else.
And really, you can see the skill difference between even as little as 100 elo. The elo system isn't perfect, but it works.
W/L is really the only thing that matters, but I can see some ELO adjustments due to AFK'ers, I can also see changes in the matchmaking system that start to grou more "honorable" people together, as well as those with better peripheral stats, like # of wards placed, KDA ratio, etc. I know that the LevaerBuster system has been updated to not only detect AFK's, but to also measure the amount of contribution that you make (from riot support). In short, I think that a small ELO forgiveness if you get stuck with an AFKer, plus a high priority vs. low priority queue where the high priority q only meets non-asshats/honorables, and people who know how to ward/contribute to a team.
The ELO system is flawed right now (although its the best around), because a single afk'er drastically reduces your ELO, and trolls havea disproportianate effect on the rest of the team. I think that a small reduction in elo loss with an afk'er and different q/matchmaking prioritization based on "honor" and periphery stats would be a good way to change ladder.
I can definately see trying to set a prioritization mechanism for grouping honorable teammates together. I think that's a solid idea. AFKs/Leavers affect both teams evenly over a large enough sample size, so their actual ELO impact is high in one single game, but spaced out over a series of a hundred games they should be statisicly irrelevant.
The only thing that I'd like to see is a game restart option. If both sides agree that one person being afk from the start isn't a fair game, why shouldn't they have the option to restart? I think it'd be really healthy for the game, and be a surefire way to prove yourself an honorable opponent.
The only drawback I see from a matching honourable guys together point of view is that because honour from friends counts for effectively nothing and honour ribbons (and by exentention the match making presumably) are based on a ratio of thumbs up to games played players who play with friends often have a harder time getting into honourable brackets.
True, but if you're playing primarily with friends (enough to make a statistical difference) you're somewhat insulated from the more abrasive elements of the community anyway.
I'm definitely a believer in the elo system, only because I recognize that sometimes I'm not the reason I win, so when I have a leaver, or all lanes feed, etc., I know that that's the minority of games. Like, if you truly belong way higher than you are, you should be carrying every game so hard it's unreal. I'm just above 1300 now, after ~100 ranked games, and I'll admit I don't play my best champs at all times, and try out new things even in ranked, but I know I belong where I am, or maybe a bit above.
I lose games I do well in, I win games I don't do that well in, and when I carry hard I usually win easily. /shrug
Just build regular tanky-bruiser and proceed to absolutely destroy their mid, who is a squishy caster that can't burst you. Just make sure you hit your Qs.
I'm definitely a believer in the elo system, only because I recognize that sometimes I'm not the reason I win, so when I have a leaver, or all lanes feed, etc., I know that that's the minority of games. Like, if you truly belong way higher than you are, you should be carrying every game so hard it's unreal. I'm just above 1300 now, after ~100 ranked games, and I'll admit I don't play my best champs at all times, and try out new things even in ranked, but I know I belong where I am, or maybe a bit above.
I lose games I do well in, I win games I don't do that well in, and when I carry hard I usually win easily. /shrug
This is a very healthy attitude for playing in the system, and one of the best foundations for performing better and setting yourself up to learn from your mistakes.
Just a quick thought about top, if you do decide to play that role in the future, remember that if the jungler has to come up to gank you he's spending time and map prescence to camp there. If you can ward and avoid dying to the gank, or alert your jungler for assistance, you can capitlize on the situation and continue to snowball. This is one of the reasons that teemo is such a frustrating champion top, because if he gets far enough ahead not even three people are enough to catch him.
Half the problems with this game can be solved with a better item system. LoL's current system is pretty much trash.
Doran's items aren't too strong for their cost, but have little to no downside for getting two of them. This pushed out tons of items for options.
Tier 1 items (Long Sword, Regeneration Charm) are trash, there's rarely a reason to go back for them before you can upgrade them. The only exceptions being Chainmail, Negatron, and Vamp (sometimes 3 NMM works on Irelia).
Tier 2 items are split between mid-game items (Spirit Visage) and recipe items (Zeal). Mid-game items should be options to either give you more oomph in laning phase, or be useful items for support, or a way to help negate a failed lane; as is, they simply don't give you enough of buff when you consider that you're going to be weaker in the late game, and are competing against Doran's stacks and gp10. There are some gems in Aegis of the Legion and Wit's End, but they retain their usefulness in the late game.
Tier 3 items (Infinity Edge, Maw of Malmortius) are either too good, or too cheap. You very rarely see anything other than boots, tier 3 items, or tier 2 items that are in the recipe to tier 3.
What I'd like to see is a buff to all those 1k-2.5k items that aren't a part of recipes, and a nerf to the ones that are. I'd also like to see team-fight items like Locket and Aegis be made cheaper (and possibly weaker) so that support players aren't exempted from a third of the game.
LoL has so many moving parts that it's really difficult to gauge effects of major changes. So when Riot starts talking about overhauling multiple things all at once I get antsy :P.
it doesn;t get me antsy, it makes me excited. i'm tired of the euro-meta, the protect the kog/vayne/corki/ez strats, the toxicity of mid, the weakness of the jungle (I run exp quints so I can stay close to the same level as everyone else), and the boring itemization on 0cs support.
I hope it all gets changed, and I hope that Riot keeps on top of the changes and adjusts them into a somewhat level playing field.
I actually think that AP'ers items are going to be changed a bit, but mostly the Jungle and Support.
I also hope that the typical 0cs supports get ratios that allow them to readily cover any lane.
any word on whether they're changing oracles to be time limited?
Well they're buffing the gold income of supports. Which I think is a better solution.
I think a lot will improve simply with more item diversity.
the question is *how* are they boosting 0cs gold? they seem to have a deep seated hatred for the gp5's (philo in particular), so taking a gamble here, I wouldnt be surprised to see gp5's dissappear.
Maybe they'll go into a gold splitting mechanism if you're withing exp range.
I doubt gp5 is going anywhere. They have no problem with 0cs support and I don't see how you make it work entirely without that. I wouldn't be surprised to see increased assist gold as well.
Splitting gold is a very iffy strategy. There are only 4 income streams, and it will never be optimal to split the gold. If they end up doing that, my thought is you will see a return to 1-1-1-1+roamer strategy, with the roamers being the characters we see in support roles now. I figure that means AD carries will be limited to only the characters with dashes and blinks, or maybe you put them mid.
It's interesting to think about, and I'm excited to see what they have come up with.
Well they're buffing the gold income of supports. Which I think is a better solution.
I think a lot will improve simply with more item diversity.
the question is *how* are they boosting 0cs gold? they seem to have a deep seated hatred for the gp5's (philo in particular), so taking a gamble here, I wouldnt be surprised to see gp5's dissappear.
Maybe they'll go into a gold splitting mechanism if you're withing exp range.
That gold splitting method is more or less how Smite operates, haven't played enough of it to really have an opinion but what little I did the system seemed to work.
Honestly I'd love them to test out something where the supports got a portion of the carries CS gold, almost like 'assist CS' would be interesting to see how that worked.
I'd also love them to make tri-lanes somewhat viable, they're one of the funnest things to watch in DOTA.
Well they're buffing the gold income of supports. Which I think is a better solution.
I think a lot will improve simply with more item diversity.
the question is *how* are they boosting 0cs gold? they seem to have a deep seated hatred for the gp5's (philo in particular), so taking a gamble here, I wouldnt be surprised to see gp5's dissappear.
Maybe they'll go into a gold splitting mechanism if you're withing exp range.
That gold splitting method is more or less how Smite operates, haven't played enough of it to really have an opinion but what little I did the system seemed to work.
Honestly I'd love them to test out something where the supports got a portion of the carries CS gold, almost like 'assist CS' would be interesting to see how that worked.
I'd also love them to make tri-lanes somewhat viable, they're one of the funnest things to watch in DOTA.
I think that eschewing the last hitting mechanism as the SOLE source of gold from minions would go a long way. Yes, last hitting gets you more gold, but the rest of the people in your lane will also receive some gold, exp range is prbly a good rule of thumb.
It would definitely blow apart the 1-1-2-1 stagnant meta, and shake up the league.
I don't see how. There are a lot of reasons the lanes are set out the way they are right now. Assuming you want someone in every lane (duh) and a jungle you're going to have some variant of the current set up no matter what.
0
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
Soloqueue teams are like Card Hands. Sometimes you get atrocious hands and you just have to deal with it. Play it out to the best of your ability and hope for a better hand next round and you'll grow as a player for it.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
"We're looking at trying to push boots + 3 away from being the only start"
Well then maybe you shouldn't have put massive mobility creep into the game then, Morello.
I always thought that boots+3pots was just down to having nothing else worth spending cash on and movespeed being OP when you have an advantage in it over your opponent.
Hence why DOTA makes boots cost almost all your starting money.
"We're looking at trying to push boots + 3 away from being the only start"
Well then maybe you shouldn't have put massive mobility creep into the game then, Morello.
they've painted themselves into a bit of a corner"
* The shitfest that is top lane
* A weaker jungle which gives less gold, less exp.
* 0cs support, with GP/5 items that go well on ... just about everyone.
* What I've been reading is that they're looking at different items for supports that will give them a decent income (note, not referred to as GP/5's. the problem is that they aren't good JUST on supports, but good everywhere)
* Jungle exp/gold doesn't keep pace with a solo lane. hell, it doesnt keep pace with a half lane. you need the nearly ganks, or you aren't useful.
I think that giving supports better ways to earn money besides gp5's, fixes that. either in split-gold sharing masteries or items.
Making the jungle a bit harder (almost s1, but not quite) and cranking up the exp/gold in the jungle would fix that...
as for top lane... uggggg... maybe a bot, mid, middle-ishtop, and then an extra (hard) jungle north of top with nasties and buffs.
LoL has so many moving parts that it's really difficult to gauge effects of major changes. So when Riot starts talking about overhauling multiple things all at once I get antsy :P.
it doesn;t get me antsy, it makes me excited. i'm tired of the euro-meta, the protect the kog/vayne/corki/ez strats, the toxicity of mid, the weakness of the jungle (I run exp quints so I can stay close to the same level as everyone else), and the boring itemization on 0cs support.
I hope it all gets changed, and I hope that Riot keeps on top of the changes and adjusts them into a somewhat level playing field.
I actually think that AP'ers items are going to be changed a bit, but mostly the Jungle and Support.
I also hope that the typical 0cs supports get ratios that allow them to readily cover any lane.
any word on whether they're changing oracles to be time limited?
The initial shake up will certainly be interesting, but it might leave us with even more stagnation and toxicity once a new meta forms. Riot hasn't been good at predicting what big changes will do in the past.
I'm being pessimistic, hopefully the S3 changes accomplish what Riot's trying to do. Worst case it'll be fun at first with people trying new strats right after the changes hit.
Soloqueue teams are like Card Hands. Sometimes you get atrocious hands and you just have to deal with it. Play it out to the best of your ability and hope for a better hand next round and you'll grow as a player for it.
If you can say "At least I learned something" and mean it, then that's an OK game
Cuts down some nearby long grass in the hopes of finding rupees. Grants 10g (+1 p/level).
Gold increased by 50% from long grass in enemy jungle.
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
that would be interesting... maybe they'd make a blink dagger instead, but it's sooooo useful of a spell offensively and defensively, plus it leads to some of the better cast moments.
Cuts down some nearby long grass in the hopes of finding rupees. Grants 10g (+1 p/level).
Gold increased by 50% from long grass in enemy jungle.
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
that would be interesting... maybe they'd make a blink dagger instead, but it's sooooo useful of a spell offensively and defensively, plus it leads to some of the better cast moments.
The game is balanced around flash, with the understanding that pretty much everyone is taking it. Maybe they should just give everyone flash and then 2 additional summoners.
Removing flash would destroy a huge chunk of the characters in this game.
Lots of little things but what it amounts to is that whoever gets the first tiny advantage is going to ruin the other guy's day.
Its an incredibly unforgiving lane that has led to insane power creep. Culprits include the distance to the lane, the size of the lane and its removal from anything important.
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
Morello has said they're going to buff the other summoners but not change flash at all. I am fine with this, since flash is a core part of the game now and makes the game more interesting because you can use it to make Big Plays.
Cuts down some nearby long grass in the hopes of finding rupees. Grants 10g (+1 p/level).
Gold increased by 50% from long grass in enemy jungle.
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
that would be interesting... maybe they'd make a blink dagger instead, but it's sooooo useful of a spell offensively and defensively, plus it leads to some of the better cast moments.
Oh it is and yeah, it can be exciting, but to me it's just overpoweringly good. I mean people complain about Ez being picked every game, flash is picked literally every game by around 7-8 players minimum, if not EVERY PLAYER. It's made the summoner spells into 'Flash+whatever you want'
Having said that I think summoner spells while a cool idea kinda are never going to be balanced, some things are desired in games like this and a spell will either give you that (Ignite/heals kill/survival power Flash and ghosts positioning power) and be strong or be oddball utility (like promote, which to me is the definition of a good summoner in that it basically helps define your playstyle and helps you do one small task) that will never be picked.
I like the lane but it snowballs really hard. Very few times you'll see top lane go even. One champion or the other will get a small advantage and then snowball it into a massive advantage. I personally think bottom lane is more "toxic" because of it's setup and the difficulty in ganking it.
Cuts down some nearby long grass in the hopes of finding rupees. Grants 10g (+1 p/level).
Gold increased by 50% from long grass in enemy jungle.
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
Onoes not this again. (Riot teased the removal of flash for an entire year at one point.)
0
eeSanGI slice like a goddamn hammer.Registered Userregular
One way to fix Flash: Turn it into a single-target gap closer that does no damage. Only usable on enemies. That way it's the aggressive initiator Riot always wanted it to be instead of the best god damn escape.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Posts
True, but if you're playing primarily with friends (enough to make a statistical difference) you're somewhat insulated from the more abrasive elements of the community anyway.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
I lose games I do well in, I win games I don't do that well in, and when I carry hard I usually win easily. /shrug
This is a very healthy attitude for playing in the system, and one of the best foundations for performing better and setting yourself up to learn from your mistakes.
Just a quick thought about top, if you do decide to play that role in the future, remember that if the jungler has to come up to gank you he's spending time and map prescence to camp there. If you can ward and avoid dying to the gank, or alert your jungler for assistance, you can capitlize on the situation and continue to snowball. This is one of the reasons that teemo is such a frustrating champion top, because if he gets far enough ahead not even three people are enough to catch him.
Doran's items aren't too strong for their cost, but have little to no downside for getting two of them. This pushed out tons of items for options.
Tier 1 items (Long Sword, Regeneration Charm) are trash, there's rarely a reason to go back for them before you can upgrade them. The only exceptions being Chainmail, Negatron, and Vamp (sometimes 3 NMM works on Irelia).
Tier 2 items are split between mid-game items (Spirit Visage) and recipe items (Zeal). Mid-game items should be options to either give you more oomph in laning phase, or be useful items for support, or a way to help negate a failed lane; as is, they simply don't give you enough of buff when you consider that you're going to be weaker in the late game, and are competing against Doran's stacks and gp10. There are some gems in Aegis of the Legion and Wit's End, but they retain their usefulness in the late game.
Tier 3 items (Infinity Edge, Maw of Malmortius) are either too good, or too cheap. You very rarely see anything other than boots, tier 3 items, or tier 2 items that are in the recipe to tier 3.
What I'd like to see is a buff to all those 1k-2.5k items that aren't a part of recipes, and a nerf to the ones that are. I'd also like to see team-fight items like Locket and Aegis be made cheaper (and possibly weaker) so that support players aren't exempted from a third of the game.
I think a lot will improve simply with more item diversity.
it doesn;t get me antsy, it makes me excited. i'm tired of the euro-meta, the protect the kog/vayne/corki/ez strats, the toxicity of mid, the weakness of the jungle (I run exp quints so I can stay close to the same level as everyone else), and the boring itemization on 0cs support.
I hope it all gets changed, and I hope that Riot keeps on top of the changes and adjusts them into a somewhat level playing field.
I actually think that AP'ers items are going to be changed a bit, but mostly the Jungle and Support.
I also hope that the typical 0cs supports get ratios that allow them to readily cover any lane.
any word on whether they're changing oracles to be time limited?
Joe's Stream.
the question is *how* are they boosting 0cs gold? they seem to have a deep seated hatred for the gp5's (philo in particular), so taking a gamble here, I wouldnt be surprised to see gp5's dissappear.
Maybe they'll go into a gold splitting mechanism if you're withing exp range.
Joe's Stream.
It's interesting to think about, and I'm excited to see what they have come up with.
That gold splitting method is more or less how Smite operates, haven't played enough of it to really have an opinion but what little I did the system seemed to work.
Honestly I'd love them to test out something where the supports got a portion of the carries CS gold, almost like 'assist CS' would be interesting to see how that worked.
I'd also love them to make tri-lanes somewhat viable, they're one of the funnest things to watch in DOTA.
I think that eschewing the last hitting mechanism as the SOLE source of gold from minions would go a long way. Yes, last hitting gets you more gold, but the rest of the people in your lane will also receive some gold, exp range is prbly a good rule of thumb.
It would definitely blow apart the 1-1-2-1 stagnant meta, and shake up the league.
Joe's Stream.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Well then maybe you shouldn't have put massive mobility creep into the game then, Morello.
Hence why DOTA makes boots cost almost all your starting money.
Forage for Gold
20s cooldown
Cuts down some nearby long grass in the hopes of finding rupees. Grants 10g (+1 p/level).
Gold increased by 50% from long grass in enemy jungle.
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
Speaking of summoners I heard rumors of removing flash, which I so badly want to be true.
they've painted themselves into a bit of a corner"
* The shitfest that is top lane
* A weaker jungle which gives less gold, less exp.
* 0cs support, with GP/5 items that go well on ... just about everyone.
* What I've been reading is that they're looking at different items for supports that will give them a decent income (note, not referred to as GP/5's. the problem is that they aren't good JUST on supports, but good everywhere)
* Jungle exp/gold doesn't keep pace with a solo lane. hell, it doesnt keep pace with a half lane. you need the nearly ganks, or you aren't useful.
I think that giving supports better ways to earn money besides gp5's, fixes that. either in split-gold sharing masteries or items.
Making the jungle a bit harder (almost s1, but not quite) and cranking up the exp/gold in the jungle would fix that...
as for top lane... uggggg... maybe a bot, mid, middle-ishtop, and then an extra (hard) jungle north of top with nasties and buffs.
Joe's Stream.
The initial shake up will certainly be interesting, but it might leave us with even more stagnation and toxicity once a new meta forms. Riot hasn't been good at predicting what big changes will do in the past.
I'm being pessimistic, hopefully the S3 changes accomplish what Riot's trying to do. Worst case it'll be fun at first with people trying new strats right after the changes hit.
If you can say "At least I learned something" and mean it, then that's an OK game
that would be interesting... maybe they'd make a blink dagger instead, but it's sooooo useful of a spell offensively and defensively, plus it leads to some of the better cast moments.
Joe's Stream.
Then they nerfed it because it was too strong or some such.
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
The game is balanced around flash, with the understanding that pretty much everyone is taking it. Maybe they should just give everyone flash and then 2 additional summoners.
Removing flash would destroy a huge chunk of the characters in this game.
Its an incredibly unforgiving lane that has led to insane power creep. Culprits include the distance to the lane, the size of the lane and its removal from anything important.
Oh it is and yeah, it can be exciting, but to me it's just overpoweringly good. I mean people complain about Ez being picked every game, flash is picked literally every game by around 7-8 players minimum, if not EVERY PLAYER. It's made the summoner spells into 'Flash+whatever you want'
Having said that I think summoner spells while a cool idea kinda are never going to be balanced, some things are desired in games like this and a spell will either give you that (Ignite/heals kill/survival power Flash and ghosts positioning power) and be strong or be oddball utility (like promote, which to me is the definition of a good summoner in that it basically helps define your playstyle and helps you do one small task) that will never be picked.
I like the lane but it snowballs really hard. Very few times you'll see top lane go even. One champion or the other will get a small advantage and then snowball it into a massive advantage. I personally think bottom lane is more "toxic" because of it's setup and the difficulty in ganking it.
Onoes not this again. (Riot teased the removal of flash for an entire year at one point.)
Slice like a god damn hammer. LoL: Rafflesia / BNet: Talonflame#11979
I don't think this will ever happen. Characters with no escape at all would be in a very bad position.
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