Man, last night in ranked I had the worst Amumu. I've been seeing a lot of Amumu bans, so people are starting to think that if he's not banned he should always be picked. However, if the other team picks Shyvana and knows what they're doing, then yeah, not so much.
The Amumu starts off the game by wasting his smite to steal their big wraith while they take our red uncontested. Then I leash blue for him but don't put damage on it. He gets executed by blue buff because of having no smite, and blames me.
Then he spends the whole game attempting to counter jungle with Amumu while Shyvana wards and takes almost every single blue and red buff on the map. He never ganks mid once, and I think he ganked top unsuccessfully once. Not sure he ever went bot. It didn't help at all that our bot lost a little bit, our top lost sooooo hard to a Kennen as Jax, and I was just going even on farm with Kat(I was Elise, who sucks mid anyway. I thought I was going top initially but the team raged because somebody after me had "called top."
I've just never seen an Amumu understand his champion less, lol.
Mummy is constantly in the top 3 on lolking in winrates. He's got severe weaknesses, with being incredibly susceptible to counter jungling, and a near game long reliance on blue, but damn his ganks are evil, and the ult is amazing. It still kills me that a lot of mummy's don't get that the stun is channeled, and just move after pressing R.
As for the "Kayle isn't a carry" discussion, I hate it, yeh it says support, but I'm going to take her into the jungle and you'll like it. If I play her as a "support", the carry better be on their game or i become carry.
But who cares, I think that I may need to come out with a video in support of SivHD's Hecarim addiction.
He needs a Brony skin.
Amumu is a terrific champion, but if you first pick him, and the other jungle knows what they're doing, you're probably in trouble, unless you get enough successful ganks to overcome the exp/gold you're going to miss from your jungle being gone, and if your mid can overcome probably losing every blue buff if the other jungle/mid are stronger than you.
Hecarim is my pick into Amumu usually. I gank just as well as he does, I can counter jungle him easily, and when it's time to team fight, I can initiate on his team before he can on to mine if I so choose.
Forever Zefirocloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2012
I'm not sure what to think of Zed after watching people play him, he seems like a worse Lee Sin
Q
LS - ranged skillshot that damages, can activate to dash to enemy
Zed - ranged skillshot that damages, pierces to hit enemies behind
W
LS - a dash to allied units that also shields, second use gives armor + lifesteal/spellvamp
Zed - creates shadow that replicates Q and E, can swap spots with shadow
E
LS - PBAoE damage, second cast slows movement and AS
Zed - PBAoE damage that slows
R
LS - roundhouse kick that damages and knocks up enemies
Zed - teleport to enemy and do damage
Forever Zefiro on
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Lee sin is king of mobility, Zed is clearly meant to be a champ that has clones that his entire kit revolves around, with good use of W/R keeping enemies unaware of which one of him is the real one.
Lee sin is king of mobility, Zed is clearly meant to be a champ that has clones that his entire kit revolves around, with good use of W/R keeping enemies unaware of which one of him is the real one.
Actually they aren't clones, they're literally shadows, they look like him but you're never gonna get confused because they have no health bars at all.
All I see of him is a dull but effective assassin with sickening burst and a gimmick.
I figured to enemies they looked like him. If that's not the case, then his swapping places stuff is purely for mobility and not trickery, which is okay I guess, but not nearly as good. It's funny timing he's coming out right now, with froggen and others doing the lee sin AD mid thing lately. This guy is going to be a menace against APs, who have little to no armor. Poor Talon.
Lee sin is king of mobility, Zed is clearly meant to be a champ that has clones that his entire kit revolves around, with good use of W/R keeping enemies unaware of which one of him is the real one.
Actually they aren't clones, they're literally shadows, they look like him but you're never gonna get confused because they have no health bars at all.
All I see of him is a dull but effective assassin with sickening burst and a gimmick.
The shadow clone thing is less of a gimmick and more utility. I was zoning the crap out of a teemo because I was maxing my E (the aoe burst) and using my clones as a delivery system. I would send in clone, use E immediately to do decent damage and slow teemo, then hit him with both Q, and if he stuck around he got another E (very short cooldown). If I needed to finish him off I could teleport to the clone and ult him. But generally I was safe from his counter attack.
It's also great when you are trying to escape, you use your clone and dash to it immediately and then use your E to slow them where you used to be. (Because your clone is where you used to be now)
It's also great for landing long range Q's (Throw clone immediately Q for the extra distance)
He is very interesting and feel a bit tricky to get used to, but once you start utilizing his shadow (A couple points early is good to get it out more often, plus the coolodwn decreases with every enemy you hit with your E by 1 second)
I've got a few things to do today but I'll stream some more play with him later. The shadows are definitely not about confusing the enemy and more about his mobility and utility.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
So new TT - what's the meta, how should you approach it for lanes, junglers, etc? Tried a few bot games on it to see the changes last night and it seems neat but I have no idea how to approach it for a real game scenario.
Funnily enough, my experience is that nobody believes that Nidalee can play any role but support. I've yet to be able to play her top due to dodging because "we already have a support omg" or some such nonsense.
Weird, I think she's a much stronger top than a support, she's still a really solid bruiser post 6 and can at least farm safely before that. A friend I queue with a lot has been using her a bunch lately mostly succesfully
Also, gotta say I agree with Styrofoam that veigar is in a pretty bad place right now. You pretty much need to pick DFG up eventually to do your job, and it was great when it was actually like, good outside of it's nuke. He still wasn't a particularly strong champ then and is definitely worse off now. It's too bad because he has fantastic skins.
I honestly could care less where Veiger is at. I was just dicking around raising my alternate and wanted a cheap champion that could blow people up badly. Veiger may have issues, but doing burst damage or making use of his E is 'not' one of them. His E is such good CC it's stupid.
What I like abou support Nidalee is you can go AP and just chuck spears the entire damn game. Plus, throwing that many around, you're bound to do something good at some point even if you're not good with skillshots. If skillshot champs are your bread and butter like me though, woof. Nothing I like better than stepping out of bottom lane, kitty hopping to the side of middle lane, and then planting a spear into AP mids side to get ba kill/back. Nidalee makes a pretty damn good ganker when he spear can chunk a carry for the majority of their life bar.
You know, i've never thought about it before now, but I might build an abyssal scepter as an MR item on Hecarim. Usually I'd go FoN or Maw, but Abyssal would actually work fine on him. He has good ratios on his W and R. Especially if my mid wasn't building one.
If they're going with Zed as a name they better have some good lines for him and he better do the dance that Travolta did.
His lines are all pretty standard shadowy ninja stuff. Although all his emotes (except the laugh) summon a shadow to interact with which is pretty neat.
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After watching a lot of Diana, I am firmly convinced that her first 3 items should be Abyssal, Zhonya's, Nashor's in some combination.
nashor's is terrible don't buy it on diana
+3
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Speaking of Nashors, I've been fooling around with TF->Nashor's->GA on Jax (traditionally, I'd go TF->GA->Pots/Tank). It was recommended in a guide written by a 2100 Korean dude. I've been surprised at how effective CDR/ASpd/AP/Mana is on him considering the low cost. Anybody else tried this?
I always hear that Nahor's is terrible point blank, but I don't understand it.
it has stats that are terrible in combination on 95% of the cast, and is made obsolete by blue buff on the other 5%
it's also very expensive and doesn't give a huge power boost so it's never the best option to spend your money on because you could have gotten a better item
I always hear that Nahor's is terrible point blank, but I don't understand it.
Mana regeneration is very expensively priced, to the point that the only good mana regen items are Doran's Ring (very cheap), Chalice (toooons of stats in one slot), and Philo (which would be pretty shit without the gp10). Nashor's gives you a lot of mana regeneration, but it doesn't give it to you until you've passed the laning phase and don't really care about it anymore.
On paper in the land of theorycraft, Nashor's is not a bad item. It's incredibly cost-effective for the stats it gives. However there are a few problems in the actual logistics of it that you need to account for.
The first is that you need to want AS to use it, but not AD or Crit or any other traditional auto-attack stats. This means that it's purely a hybrid item, and as such immediately suffers the same way all hybrid items do: it is often far more meaningful to buy pure stats rather than hybrid stats. The number of characters who could remotely be considered hybrid auto-attackers is already small, and the number that actually benefit from going hybrid is smaller (that number is 0).
The mana regen on Nashor's is also awkward. Returning to the small list of characters who could be considered hybrid auto-attackers, none of them really have what you would call mana issues - or if they do it's because you're playing them as more of a caster, in which case an item like Athene's or RoA is probably better for them. Nashor's has no survivability stats on it raising the problem of "when do I start to build it?" - I invite you to build a Stinger top lane and see how well that advances any lead you have.
People really, really like the idea of Nashor's. Probably because it is the worst item in the game and people want to make it work. Every time you get a character who has AP interact with their autos in some way - most recently Elise and Diana, but characters like Orianna experience this as well - people go "oh man what about Nashor's! finally someone Nashor's is good on!". Unfortunately this is like looking at Kha'zix's passive and seeing it has an AP ratio and going "oh man AP kha'zix burst assassin here I go!". You are fixating on a single point of the character's kit and buying an item that only really buffs that part, rather than buying items that buff all of their abilities.
I always hear that Nahor's is terrible point blank, but I don't understand it.
Those people are wrong. The real problem with it was that there are so few champions that need AS, AP, and CDR in a way that synergize well. AS and AP work for AP modified auto attackers, but CDR is for more skills which interrupts auto attacks often. or at the least negates the need for AS.
That doesn't mean it isn't good. On Kayle or Teemo it provides essential AP, AS, and CDR. For Kayle this makes it easy to get to 40% CDR without losing offensive power. 40% CDR keeps her e up all the time, and she has .4 AP scaling on her e modified auto attacks(similar to teemo). In addition having her ult up faster can be a really big deal.
For teemo everything is valuable. More AS means more AP modified AA's, more AP means more damage, more CDR means more shrooms, more MP5 means you can still be effective when using all those shrooms. In addition, blue doesn't really cut it for teemo since he needs to be placing shrooms consistently throughout the match.
But I've seen a pro do support Anivia, and I'm fairly certain that's terrible
Why is it terrible though? What concretely makes it bad? I could see it working out decently
You have a stun, a way to manipulate positioning and a zone control tool. Nothing in her kit makes me think that she couldn't do the job, especially considering that her base values are all amazing.
She is super mana intensive and so cannot keep up sustained harass. She is super squishy and is easily focused down in a double lane. Her stun is hard to hit.
Anivia's biggest advantages are wave clear and team fight AoE. But you don't get any of that without items, you just get the wall.
E ia Gangplanks movespeed buff thing. Support Plank is rather interesting, he has harass and his buff and can transition into another carry later.
Best kind of support, and why I love Nunu.
Carry not up to par? Grats, now you're the carry.
Nunu is good because with an extra 2k gold from his w its hard for your carry to not be up to par. Not sure how you could effective change from support to carry on him.
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
I definitely haven't tested it enough to know for sure, but doesn't Jax scale exceptionally well with All of those stats? He has built in on-hit that scales with AP and increases his stun+aa immunity by 24% uptime. The only other damage options seem to be PD or Guinsoo's, right?
Posts
Amumu is a terrific champion, but if you first pick him, and the other jungle knows what they're doing, you're probably in trouble, unless you get enough successful ganks to overcome the exp/gold you're going to miss from your jungle being gone, and if your mid can overcome probably losing every blue buff if the other jungle/mid are stronger than you.
Hecarim is my pick into Amumu usually. I gank just as well as he does, I can counter jungle him easily, and when it's time to team fight, I can initiate on his team before he can on to mine if I so choose.
Wait
You can use abilities when hit by Amumu's ult? How have I never noticed that before?
you usually use your Q a lot, and I don't trust that weak pinky finger to control that key
so yeah I just extend my index for R, D, and F
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
You can still nuke the hell out of him with DPS powers if you're in range, though.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
it looks accurate, description is a snare with no AA's. When did that change, I thought it was a 2.5s stun, but it's a 2s snare+no AA?
Joe's Stream.
It's always been that since I've been playing (summer 2010)
Used to be 2.5 but they nerfed it like two years back when they nerfed galio's down to 2 too
Joe's Stream.
Q
LS - ranged skillshot that damages, can activate to dash to enemy
Zed - ranged skillshot that damages, pierces to hit enemies behind
W
LS - a dash to allied units that also shields, second use gives armor + lifesteal/spellvamp
Zed - creates shadow that replicates Q and E, can swap spots with shadow
E
LS - PBAoE damage, second cast slows movement and AS
Zed - PBAoE damage that slows
R
LS - roundhouse kick that damages and knocks up enemies
Zed - teleport to enemy and do damage
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Actually they aren't clones, they're literally shadows, they look like him but you're never gonna get confused because they have no health bars at all.
All I see of him is a dull but effective assassin with sickening burst and a gimmick.
The shadow clone thing is less of a gimmick and more utility. I was zoning the crap out of a teemo because I was maxing my E (the aoe burst) and using my clones as a delivery system. I would send in clone, use E immediately to do decent damage and slow teemo, then hit him with both Q, and if he stuck around he got another E (very short cooldown). If I needed to finish him off I could teleport to the clone and ult him. But generally I was safe from his counter attack.
It's also great when you are trying to escape, you use your clone and dash to it immediately and then use your E to slow them where you used to be. (Because your clone is where you used to be now)
It's also great for landing long range Q's (Throw clone immediately Q for the extra distance)
He is very interesting and feel a bit tricky to get used to, but once you start utilizing his shadow (A couple points early is good to get it out more often, plus the coolodwn decreases with every enemy you hit with your E by 1 second)
I've got a few things to do today but I'll stream some more play with him later. The shadows are definitely not about confusing the enemy and more about his mobility and utility.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I honestly could care less where Veiger is at. I was just dicking around raising my alternate and wanted a cheap champion that could blow people up badly. Veiger may have issues, but doing burst damage or making use of his E is 'not' one of them. His E is such good CC it's stupid.
What I like abou support Nidalee is you can go AP and just chuck spears the entire damn game. Plus, throwing that many around, you're bound to do something good at some point even if you're not good with skillshots. If skillshot champs are your bread and butter like me though, woof. Nothing I like better than stepping out of bottom lane, kitty hopping to the side of middle lane, and then planting a spear into AP mids side to get ba kill/back. Nidalee makes a pretty damn good ganker when he spear can chunk a carry for the majority of their life bar.
From what I can tell the shadows aren't targetable at all. They don't take damage, don't have health, minions ignore them, etc.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Zed the redneck ninja.
I agree. Zed is a terrible name and people with it should feel bad.
Also, losing a game where you get a 20 stacks Mejai on support Lux is the saddest thing.
Steam: Drokmir
Agreed, the name is atrocious for a ninja. Even just changing it to something like "Zen" or something would have been much better.
I can't help but think of Pulp Fiction every time I hear the name.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Joe's Stream.
His lines are all pretty standard shadowy ninja stuff. Although all his emotes (except the laugh) summon a shadow to interact with which is pretty neat.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
nashor's is terrible don't buy it on diana
awwwwwww sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
Delph you have yet to answer the most important questions. DOES HE DUNK!?! IF YES, HOW HARD?
Joe's Stream.
it has stats that are terrible in combination on 95% of the cast, and is made obsolete by blue buff on the other 5%
it's also very expensive and doesn't give a huge power boost so it's never the best option to spend your money on because you could have gotten a better item
PSN: BrightWing13 FFX|V:ARR Bright Asuna
Mana regeneration is very expensively priced, to the point that the only good mana regen items are Doran's Ring (very cheap), Chalice (toooons of stats in one slot), and Philo (which would be pretty shit without the gp10). Nashor's gives you a lot of mana regeneration, but it doesn't give it to you until you've passed the laning phase and don't really care about it anymore.
Wit's End is pretty sick on Jax, though.
The first is that you need to want AS to use it, but not AD or Crit or any other traditional auto-attack stats. This means that it's purely a hybrid item, and as such immediately suffers the same way all hybrid items do: it is often far more meaningful to buy pure stats rather than hybrid stats. The number of characters who could remotely be considered hybrid auto-attackers is already small, and the number that actually benefit from going hybrid is smaller (that number is 0).
The mana regen on Nashor's is also awkward. Returning to the small list of characters who could be considered hybrid auto-attackers, none of them really have what you would call mana issues - or if they do it's because you're playing them as more of a caster, in which case an item like Athene's or RoA is probably better for them. Nashor's has no survivability stats on it raising the problem of "when do I start to build it?" - I invite you to build a Stinger top lane and see how well that advances any lead you have.
People really, really like the idea of Nashor's. Probably because it is the worst item in the game and people want to make it work. Every time you get a character who has AP interact with their autos in some way - most recently Elise and Diana, but characters like Orianna experience this as well - people go "oh man what about Nashor's! finally someone Nashor's is good on!". Unfortunately this is like looking at Kha'zix's passive and seeing it has an AP ratio and going "oh man AP kha'zix burst assassin here I go!". You are fixating on a single point of the character's kit and buying an item that only really buffs that part, rather than buying items that buff all of their abilities.
That doesn't mean it isn't good. On Kayle or Teemo it provides essential AP, AS, and CDR. For Kayle this makes it easy to get to 40% CDR without losing offensive power. 40% CDR keeps her e up all the time, and she has .4 AP scaling on her e modified auto attacks(similar to teemo). In addition having her ult up faster can be a really big deal.
For teemo everything is valuable. More AS means more AP modified AA's, more AP means more damage, more CDR means more shrooms, more MP5 means you can still be effective when using all those shrooms. In addition, blue doesn't really cut it for teemo since he needs to be placing shrooms consistently throughout the match.
She is super mana intensive and so cannot keep up sustained harass. She is super squishy and is easily focused down in a double lane. Her stun is hard to hit.
Anivia's biggest advantages are wave clear and team fight AoE. But you don't get any of that without items, you just get the wall.
Nunu is good because with an extra 2k gold from his w its hard for your carry to not be up to par. Not sure how you could effective change from support to carry on him.
and this is why itemization needs to be changed drastically, particularly on the ADC side.
Joe's Stream.