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[TRENCHES] Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - Democracy

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Posts

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    If I ever run a business there will be no smoke breaks. You can indulge your addiction on your own time. I also wouldn't provide heroin or cocaine breaks.

    You wouldn't happen to be posting from work, would ya?
    Taking a lil internet break on company time.

    nope. Can't get to these kinds of sites at work.

    steam_sig.png
  • JohnnyricoMCJohnnyricoMC Registered User regular
    About smoking on the job: it'd be a much better system if you were forced to punch(RFID) out to leave any exit so the employer knows exactly how long you're inside. Then, all the minutes you spend smoking, you'll have to work longer. That way smokers have to work just as long as non-smokers, but they end up being on the premises longer.

  • ApolloinApolloin Registered User regular
    There is this project management concept called 'The Mythical Man/Hour' which is a huge freaking eyeopener if you actually make the effort to internalise it. As a former project manager I found it quite scary initially, but it has served me pretty well in the long run. At the core of the concept is the paradigm shift away from counting hours and towards tracking productivity.

    Project Managers have a tendency to believe that if a task is logged at 30% complete and has a duration of 10 weeks then it could be brought in within 3.5 weeks if only the amount of staff working on it could be doubled. Following this logic to the point of absurdity, a AAA shooter that took 100 people 2 years to complete could be brought in within a week if only the company would assign 10,400 people to the project.

    In reality, most creative tasks rely on a period of iteration and a period of inspiration. The iteration can be figured out based on extrapolation, but the inspiration just happens when it happens. When it comes to finding that inspiration sitting at your desk is no more productive than having a shower, a nap, watching a movie or taking a smoke break. If only we could convince management that people are basically honest and would rather do well at their job than badly at it, we could probably get rid of a lot of bullshit about getting in on time, leaving on time and the number of times we go for a pee, browse imgur or take a smoke break. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't fundamentally honest, so it kinda breaks down at that point.

    STILL. The point is that it's best to track your employees productivity and not their attendance. It is simplicity itself to take micro-breaks whilst sat at your desk. Everybody does it. Anyone who thinks that their workers are productive seven to ten hours each workday is basically fooling themselves and nobody else. So, if your coworker smokes but meets all his targets, worry about hitting all yours rather than tracking his smoke breaks.

    Commander Zoom
  • JetstreamGWJetstreamGW Registered User regular
    Apolloin wrote: »
    There is this project management concept called 'The Mythical Man/Hour' which is a huge freaking eyeopener if you actually make the effort to internalise it. As a former project manager I found it quite scary initially, but it has served me pretty well in the long run. At the core of the concept is the paradigm shift away from counting hours and towards tracking productivity.

    Project Managers have a tendency to believe that if a task is logged at 30% complete and has a duration of 10 weeks then it could be brought in within 3.5 weeks if only the amount of staff working on it could be doubled. Following this logic to the point of absurdity, a AAA shooter that took 100 people 2 years to complete could be brought in within a week if only the company would assign 10,400 people to the project.

    In reality, most creative tasks rely on a period of iteration and a period of inspiration. The iteration can be figured out based on extrapolation, but the inspiration just happens when it happens. When it comes to finding that inspiration sitting at your desk is no more productive than having a shower, a nap, watching a movie or taking a smoke break. If only we could convince management that people are basically honest and would rather do well at their job than badly at it, we could probably get rid of a lot of bullshit about getting in on time, leaving on time and the number of times we go for a pee, browse imgur or take a smoke break. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't fundamentally honest, so it kinda breaks down at that point.

    STILL. The point is that it's best to track your employees productivity and not their attendance. It is simplicity itself to take micro-breaks whilst sat at your desk. Everybody does it. Anyone who thinks that their workers are productive seven to ten hours each workday is basically fooling themselves and nobody else. So, if your coworker smokes but meets all his targets, worry about hitting all yours rather than tracking his smoke breaks.

    This is obvious, and yet nobody will ever agree with you in a practical setting (until it's forced upon them anyway).

    That's kinda sad. Oh well. At least overtime pays well ;)

  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Do overweight people get free burger breaks whenever they get hungry? And during those breaks can they lurk outside the lunchroom and drip grease into everyone else's food?

  • AsharadAsharad Registered User regular
    Apolloin wrote: »

    Project Managers have a tendency to believe that if a task is logged at 30% complete and has a duration of 10 weeks then it could be brought in within 3.5 weeks if only the amount of staff working on it could be doubled. Following this logic to the point of absurdity, a AAA shooter that took 100 people 2 years to complete could be brought in within a week if only the company would assign 10,400 people to the project.

    This was proven, and in the computer game industry, by Daikatana. I mean, there were a lot of problems, but Romero kept saying, throughout the whole development process, that he couldn't understand why it was taking so long, since they had ten times more people working on it than worked on Doom.

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Do overweight people get free burger breaks whenever they get hungry? And during those breaks can they lurk outside the lunchroom and drip grease into everyone else's food?

    Actually if you work at a restaurant odds are you never have to buy lunch or dinner.

    When I was a busboy in high school I gained ten pounds because at the end of the day it was basically take home everything they couldn't freeze.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
    Commander Zoom
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    edited October 2012
    Do overweight people get free burger breaks whenever they get hungry? And during those breaks can they lurk outside the lunchroom and drip grease into everyone else's food?
    Wow, that was an awesome jump, I thought you'd never make it over that shark!

    Stupid oversimplification.
    Breaks are a necessity for a productive work force, what they do on those breaks is up to them. It doesn't matter if the person is working 6 hours or 24 hours, they're going to lose focus and ability throughout the day if they aren't given an adequate work/rest schedule. It's the failing of the gaming industry that so many studios and companies think that removing break times will increase productivity. The term "smoke break" is just a common name for these breaks.

    Also, caffeine addicts are allowed "coffee breaks" in most workplaces.

    Also the concept discussed above likely comes from "The Mythical Man-Month". Which is coined the concept as Brook's Law

    Dedwrekka on
    Commander ZoomApolloin
  • JohnnyricoMCJohnnyricoMC Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    The term "smoke break" is just a common name for these breaks.
    Toilet breaks produce far more epiphanies than nicotine breaks. So everyone should go to the crappers at work more often, but treat the crapper rooms with respect and they'll remain clean.
    Also, caffeine addicts are allowed "coffee breaks" in most workplaces.

    Over here in Europe, we just buy a mug, go fill 'er up with that brown goodness and take it to our cubicle/desk and get back to work..

  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Do overweight people get free burger breaks whenever they get hungry? And during those breaks can they lurk outside the lunchroom and drip grease into everyone else's food?
    Wow, that was an awesome jump, I thought you'd never make it over that shark!

    Stupid oversimplification.
    Breaks are a necessity for a productive work force, what they do on those breaks is up to them. It doesn't matter if the person is working 6 hours or 24 hours, they're going to lose focus and ability throughout the day if they aren't given an adequate work/rest schedule. It's the failing of the gaming industry that so many studios and companies think that removing break times will increase productivity. The term "smoke break" is just a common name for these breaks.

    Also, caffeine addicts are allowed "coffee breaks" in most workplaces.

    Also the concept discussed above likely comes from "The Mythical Man-Month". Which is coined the concept as Brook's Law

    I have no problem with breaks. Obviously everyone needs breaks. But looking back through the thread, what people are talking about is smokers getting breaks other people don't get because they (and probably the boss) smoke. In that situation, either no one gets a break except the smokers, or everyone gets some breaks but the smokers gets extras. That's what I and rest of the thread are arguing against. You can do whatever you want on your break. But everyone should get the same amount of break time as everyone else, regardless of what character flaws they choose to indulge in. The grease thing was unfair, sure. I have no right to tell people they can't smoke and blow it in my face anymore than they can tell me to not fart. It just makes them jerks that they do it. And that is their right. Getting bonus breaks is not.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    I personally do not smoke and find cigarette smoke disgusting, but if other people want to smoke in their own time and space that's their business. However, I have worked retail and retail-like jobs (marketing research, basically survey-taking) with smokers, and some of them absolutely will use their addiction as an excuse to take multiple breaks which non-smokers would be looked askance at for taking.

    That is the issue here; nobody is saying that people shouldn't have breaks at work or that non-smokers don't goof off and waste time in other ways. It's more that some (again take note of that word, some not all) smokers will goof off and waste even more time over and above what average people will by going off to smoke and expect to be indulged in this as a matter of course.

    "If he gets to disappear for 10-15 minutes every couple hours to smoke a cigarette, can I take 10-15 minutes every couple hours to go take a walk around the building, or just lean against a wall staring at the sky?"

    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
    RatherDashing89
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Apolloin wrote: »
    There is this project management concept called 'The Mythical Man/Hour' which is a huge freaking eyeopener if you actually make the effort to internalise it. As a former project manager I found it quite scary initially, but it has served me pretty well in the long run. At the core of the concept is the paradigm shift away from counting hours and towards tracking productivity.

    Project Managers have a tendency to believe that if a task is logged at 30% complete and has a duration of 10 weeks then it could be brought in within 3.5 weeks if only the amount of staff working on it could be doubled. Following this logic to the point of absurdity, a AAA shooter that took 100 people 2 years to complete could be brought in within a week if only the company would assign 10,400 people to the project.

    In reality, most creative tasks rely on a period of iteration and a period of inspiration. The iteration can be figured out based on extrapolation, but the inspiration just happens when it happens. When it comes to finding that inspiration sitting at your desk is no more productive than having a shower, a nap, watching a movie or taking a smoke break. If only we could convince management that people are basically honest and would rather do well at their job than badly at it, we could probably get rid of a lot of bullshit about getting in on time, leaving on time and the number of times we go for a pee, browse imgur or take a smoke break. Unfortunately a lot of people aren't fundamentally honest, so it kinda breaks down at that point.

    STILL. The point is that it's best to track your employees productivity and not their attendance. It is simplicity itself to take micro-breaks whilst sat at your desk. Everybody does it. Anyone who thinks that their workers are productive seven to ten hours each workday is basically fooling themselves and nobody else. So, if your coworker smokes but meets all his targets, worry about hitting all yours rather than tracking his smoke breaks.

    This is obvious, and yet nobody will ever agree with you in a practical setting (until it's forced upon them anyway).

    That's kinda sad. Oh well. At least overtime pays well ;)

    The problem is perfectly illustrated by the story attached to the comic: those kind of arbitrary measures of 'productivity' grow out of environments where people don't have established backgrounds and may not have any attachment to the job or desire to do it well, or where the company simply feels they're expendable (due to simple skill sets or labor market conditions) and is trying to squeeze out an extra couple bucks on the margin.

    Then the people who progress through that environment (like the writer) get accustomed to that shit and find that it's easiest to just keep passing it on once they get into positions of leadership. In this way, a culture forms that is almost impossible to get rid of.

    New industries avoid this because the culture simply doesn't have time to form; we saw this as the internet and tech industries exploded and every office in silicon valley had a ping pong table and a keg. It'll be interesting to see how long it takes that culture to go away, and how many companies manage to hold onto it.

    WRT the prison experiment thing: the saying that power corrupts has always been wrong. What power does is reveal. It's easy to be a crusader for workplace justice when workplace justice would improve your personal circumstances. What we see from the story in the OP is that the writer was always a selfish asshole, it was just easier to justify when he was lower on the food chain.

    NREqxl5.jpg
    do you lack faith, brother?
    or do you believe?
  • ApolloinApolloin Registered User regular
    First of all, I'm not joining the dogpile on smokers. I personally don't believe that smoke breaks have a negative effect on productivity in creative workplaces, unless they are an hour long or happen every half-hour. THAT SAID...

    Although I started as a Tester and Customer Service rep for a tiny company I eventually wound up a Game Designer working for one of the big boys. Whilst most of the egregious abuses of good practice, ethics and human rights happened during the earlier part of my career, it was whilst I was at my last job in the Industry that I actually took up smoking so that I could participate in the impromptu design meetings that took place whenever the Lead Designer and his Senior Designers went for a smoke-break.

    I don't think my productivity suffered, but all sorts of other things did, obviously! I still feel it was a good decision, career wise, though...

  • Ori KleinOri Klein Registered User regular
    Story is basically "I hated assholes. Now I'm an asshole. And I'm ok with it". Ok, good for you. Just don't look surprised when a sucker punch find you one day, ok? Ok.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    When I became the boss I didn't turn into an asshole. And the smokers at that place spent around 3 hours outside, and their productivity was utter shit. They did smoke with the boss.

    So there's all that.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
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