It's an extremely disingenuous false equivalence to compare a complex narrative game featuring clearly realistic characters and situations and human interactions made in 2019 to something like Excitebike or Pac-Man. "Are ALL games really political?" is a separate discussion but if you're claiming Cyberpunk 2077 isn't or won't be political because Tetris or whatever clearly isn't, or can't be, you're simply wrong, or arguing in bad faith.
It's an extremely disingenuous false equivalence to compare a complex narrative game featuring clearly realistic characters and situations and human interactions made in 2019 to something like Excitebike or Pac-Man. "Are ALL games really political?" is a separate discussion but if you're claiming Cyberpunk 2077 isn't or won't be political because Tetris or whatever clearly isn't, or can't be, you're simply wrong, or arguing in bad faith.
Then don't use the word "inherently" when that's not what you mean.
You know. I don't care if you buy the game but this joyus revalry you take in gaslighting people who do care about these things is really quite disturbing.
You do you. Buy it enjoy it. But stop trying to tell us that our feelings and concerns are not really real for whatever reason you feel you need to correct our unfortunate understanding of our own lived experience.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
This jacket stuff is bullshit. They completely wimped out by giving up on the awesome jacket in the concept art. That should be the thing they were giving out/selling at E3.
This jacket stuff is bullshit. They completely wimped out by giving up on the awesome jacket in the concept art. That should be the thing they were giving out/selling at E3.
I'd super dig if they'd leaned more into the fact that Europe mostly has its shit more together in this setting and is a cultural influence.
Gimme the same bullet proof winter coat and scarf my PC wears in the TTRPG and stuff.
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
What jacket stuff? Is it the street samurai jacket?
*Walks in to show off new Cyberpunk 2077 jacket and stops in his tracks*
If anybody wants to see it I can take some pictures later...
Don’t just want pictures, If you didn’t get it at E3 I would like to know where I can nab one of decent quality to go next my Deus Ex Jackets.
From E3, and it doesn't specifically look like the one from the trailers, outside of the logo on the back. It's just an awesome branded reversible jacket with the samurai logo on the back of the black side, and the Cyberpunk 2077 logo on the back of the yellow side.
Though if you want a fairly accurate representation of the jacket that the main character wears, there are cosplay sites selling pretty decent reproductions minus the lighting effects for around $130.
Also I've been waiting literally since 2012 to make a better OP for this game so hopefully CDPR does some more bonheaded shit that makes everyone angry for another 20 pages or whatever, because I'm tired of waiting! Leopard Print Jacket Man will get his rightful place at the top of the OP if I have anything to say about it...
+1
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I do not find it at all credible that a major western country (especially one with strongly conservative leanings) publisher of video games would not be aware of one of the largest political upheavals in gaming that had been happening for years, no.
I'm not trying to dogpile (no pun intended) but where are you getting this? And it should be noted that Conservatism is not the same everywhere.
Is defending conservative ideals really the hill you want to die on at this particular moment?
That's a (intentionally?) pretty bad read of my comment. Darkewolfe (and others) has repeatedly insisted that CDPR is "at best" alt-right tolerant. I simply asked for evidence of this, with the caveat that conservatives do not necessarily look the same cross borders.
I do not find it at all credible that a major western country (especially one with strongly conservative leanings) publisher of video games would not be aware of one of the largest political upheavals in gaming that had been happening for years, no.
I'm not trying to dogpile (no pun intended) but where are you getting this? And it should be noted that Conservatism is not the same everywhere.
Is defending conservative ideals really the hill you want to die on at this particular moment?
That's a (intentionally?) pretty bad read of my comment. Darkewolfe (and others) has repeatedly insisted that CDPR is "at best" alt-right tolerant. I simply asked for evidence of this, with the caveat that conservatives do not necessarily look the same cross borders.
What jacket stuff? Is it the street samurai jacket?
I found an image on Reddit, but I'll take pictures of mine later.
All in on that yellow. Well if you're going to commit. . .commit.
Well that's the great thing about it being reversible, if you want it to be yellow then it can be. It's completely reversible down to the zipper flipping over.
I do not find it at all credible that a major western country (especially one with strongly conservative leanings) publisher of video games would not be aware of one of the largest political upheavals in gaming that had been happening for years, no.
I'm not trying to dogpile (no pun intended) but where are you getting this? And it should be noted that Conservatism is not the same everywhere.
Is defending conservative ideals really the hill you want to die on at this particular moment?
That's a (intentionally?) pretty bad read of my comment. Darkewolfe (and others) has repeatedly insisted that CDPR is "at best" alt-right tolerant. I simply asked for evidence of this, with the caveat that conservatives do not necessarily look the same cross borders.
What jacket stuff? Is it the street samurai jacket?
I found an image on Reddit, but I'll take pictures of mine later.
All in on that yellow. Well if you're going to commit. . .commit.
Well that's the great thing about it being reversible, if you want it to be yellow then it can be. It's completely reversible down to the zipper flipping over.
I don’t like yellow but honestly it doesn’t bother me that much, I think deus ex hr kinda got me used to the “ aesthetic choice of having one super dominant color ( is there a technical term for that?) and from what I’ve seen it didn’t carry over to the actual gameplay where as almost everything in most parts of deus ex was a shade of gold with black.
The actual first Deus Ex jacket is mainly black but the inside trim is laced with black and gold pattern and comes with a inside waistcoat that detaches.
It works very well together but hey it’s the cyberfuture and if your a fixer with a neon blue zebra jacket then more power to you.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
This jacket stuff is bullshit. They completely wimped out by giving up on the awesome jacket in the concept art. That should be the thing they were giving out/selling at E3.
I'd super dig if they'd leaned more into the fact that Europe mostly has its shit more together in this setting and is a cultural influence.
Gimme the same bullet proof winter coat and scarf my PC wears in the TTRPG and stuff.
I mean, I think portraying Europe as this super progressive society has its own problems.
This jacket stuff is bullshit. They completely wimped out by giving up on the awesome jacket in the concept art. That should be the thing they were giving out/selling at E3.
I'd super dig if they'd leaned more into the fact that Europe mostly has its shit more together in this setting and is a cultural influence.
Gimme the same bullet proof winter coat and scarf my PC wears in the TTRPG and stuff.
I mean, I think portraying Europe as this super progressive society has its own problems.
It’s not progressive. I just mean it didn’t have the collapse that America had.
The EU is a big power and it’s fashion brands are trend setters.
+1
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
This jacket stuff is bullshit. They completely wimped out by giving up on the awesome jacket in the concept art. That should be the thing they were giving out/selling at E3.
I'd super dig if they'd leaned more into the fact that Europe mostly has its shit more together in this setting and is a cultural influence.
Gimme the same bullet proof winter coat and scarf my PC wears in the TTRPG and stuff.
I mean, I think portraying Europe as this super progressive society has its own problems.
It’s not progressive. I just mean it didn’t have the collapse that America had.
The EU is a big power and it’s fashion brands are trend setters.
Sorry, when you said having its shit together, I conflated it with the other topic at hand.
Fencingsax on
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
Please remember that Europe is pretty different from area to area.
Unlike the US which is, of course, completely homogeneous.
PSN: Honkalot
+24
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Q: "So is Keanu more of a cameo?"
A: "*laughs* Oh no! Oh no! He is basically like a second protagonist."
edit- In case you can't currently watch the video here is a breakdown of some of the best bits.
You can complete the game as (mostly) human. The exceptions are the cyber-eye and the grip mod that lets you climb.
There is no reputation system. V is a freelancer and can work for anyone. Though there will be missions you could take that may put you in opposition to another faction during that mission.
You can steal vehicles.
There are several vehicles you can own and store in your garage and summon whenever you want.
No vehicle customization, but they are discussing it internally.
Clothing doesn't affect how people react to you, but you will have certain missions in which you need to dress the part.
Many buildings are enterable, but most are not. Any building you can enter however has content in it.
There are six Districts, each broken down in to sub-districts.
Most Districts have their own "police" force. In a Corp dominated district Corp Security would be policing. In a Gang dominated district the Gang enforces order.
Flying cars are not pilotable, but you will ride in them.
Multiple endings.
Your background choices will open or close certain missions. Most of the game's content is playable the first time through however.
Background will also have an effect on dialogue choices when dealing with certain people.
Can you save Jackie? No comment.
Everybody has their own local networks because the old internet blew up and collapsed society. Old internet is still there behind the Blackwall and is something of a Cthulhian domain run by rogue AI. Will you visit it? Gotta play the game to find out.
You can GTA through crowds.
You can go pretty much full cyborg if you want.
Different Augs can give you access to new areas you may not have been able to reach otherwise.
You can mod weapons.
No Cyber-Gwent
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+8
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Just decided to swing back by here after some thought.
Just as a general thing this place has become a little bit uncomfortable. And, especially for allies, I think we really have to be careful about how much we speak for the people we are allies of. Not every member of a given community feels the same way about this particular topic or any other. And when allies are speaking so very strongly about a topic in defense of a community it can make things very uncomfortable for certain members of that very community they are trying to speak for who don't fully agree.
Support is great. Just maybe careful when speaking for others is all.
And sorry if anything I said contributed to any of the negative environment in the past few days.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I have no idea how game development works, but that they were able to pull all that together in a year with Keanu is something else. I'm sure they had a "Johnny Silverhand" all lined up if this didn't work out but that's pretty impressive either way.
Also interesting that he's not a cameo like Charles Dance in W3 (though he did a great Emhyr).
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I really, really hope that its possible the player can save Jackie. That was something that bugged me about the latest video, I really hate the idea of losing that level of agency in the game. Some of my favorite moments in gaming are (Deus Ex spoilers)
Saving your brother in Deus Ex or the pilot in HR.
I'm guessing you can; it would feel slightly un-CDPR to not be able to. Also, the way he says "I'm sorry. . ." when giving you the chip in the taxi makes it seem like there's a whole lot more there that we can discover.
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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The_SpaniardIt's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
One of the things we want to do in the final game (which we couldn't show in the demo yet, because as you mentioned it's a work in progress) is to give the players as many options of customization in the beginning of the game as we can.
For example, we want to do this thing where, as you create your character, after you choose the body type, you can, for example, use physical traits as you build your face that could be assigned to a man or a woman.
Gamasutra: Or nonbinary?
Tomaskiewicz: Or nonbinary. The idea is to mix all of those up, to give them to the players, as they would like to build it. Same goes for the voice. We wanted to separate this out, so the players can choose it freely. This is something we are still working on, it's not as easy as it sounds.
This is one part of it. In terms of how we depict the characters within the setting itself, of course, yes, we are paying a lot of attention to it, we do not want anyone to feel like we are neglecting this, or treating it wrongly.
One of the things we want to do in the final game (which we couldn't show in the demo yet, because as you mentioned it's a work in progress) is to give the players as many options of customization in the beginning of the game as we can.
For example, we want to do this thing where, as you create your character, after you choose the body type, you can, for example, use physical traits as you build your face that could be assigned to a man or a woman.
Gamasutra: Or nonbinary?
Tomaskiewicz: Or nonbinary. The idea is to mix all of those up, to give them to the players, as they would like to build it. Same goes for the voice. We wanted to separate this out, so the players can choose it freely. This is something we are still working on, it's not as easy as it sounds.
This is one part of it. In terms of how we depict the characters within the setting itself, of course, yes, we are paying a lot of attention to it, we do not want anyone to feel like we are neglecting this, or treating it wrongly.
I'll believe they've turned a new stone when we've seen release and it's free of bullshit.
I would rather be accused of intransigence than tolerating genocide for the sake of everyone getting along. - @Metzger Meister
what Warframe did, and let me use the technically masculine options to create an androgynous character who uses the technically female VO options... yeah. hell yeah. Or, like, make a super femme character who uses the male VO. Or any combo thereof. Which you can do in Warframe, 'least after you get to Neptune.
like, listen. Game companies are Lorge. Especially ones like CDPR. And in this case, they've got Mike Pondsmith breathing down their necks, AND now Keanu Reeves, and both of them have a pretty decent track record with trans folks (MP altered the rules for CP2020's 2005 edition in a way that made it wayyy easier to get gender confirmation surgery; Keanu Reeves has been working mostly with a pair of transgender women for... uh... well, as long as he's been working with the Wachowski Sisters now). So if public outrage doesn't do it, Keanu giving them sad puppy eyes might? Or threatening to walk if they don't shape the fuck up.
The point is, that a game company isn't one dumbass, it's a whole fuckton of people, who often have dissenting opinions. I have cautious (very cautious, but) optimism here.
(And, again: I'm a nonbinary/agender/genderqueer/uhhhh gender?? i hardly know 'er! asexual bir--- I'm fucking queer okay, I don't need to give you receipts. And while I ABSOLUTELY do not speak for every queer person ever, I can at least speak for *me*, and what I have is cautious optimism.)
I do at least applaud their efforts and attempt. We'll see how it all shakes out. I think the reason many developers and publishers have not touched this aspect of gender identity or sexuality is that there's a myriad of ways to really screw this up. And it's way easier to go 'we're not touching this subject matter' rather than making an attempt and failing miserably. I think the last major game I remember even trying to add someone fluid in the story was Dragon Age Inquisition and Krem... who I think was done remarkably well.
Posts
http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
Stop being a prick.
You do you. Buy it enjoy it. But stop trying to tell us that our feelings and concerns are not really real for whatever reason you feel you need to correct our unfortunate understanding of our own lived experience.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Yeah I’ve seen some of the cosplay reproductions which vary drastically in quality be interested to see some piccys of the E3 jacket.
I used to have a diesel Jacket that had a blue glow light panel back some 20+years ago.
The sole reason I bought it because it was Cyberpunkish. I’m a sucker for a good jacket.
I'd super dig if they'd leaned more into the fact that Europe mostly has its shit more together in this setting and is a cultural influence.
Gimme the same bullet proof winter coat and scarf my PC wears in the TTRPG and stuff.
I found an image on Reddit, but I'll take pictures of mine later.
That's a (intentionally?) pretty bad read of my comment. Darkewolfe (and others) has repeatedly insisted that CDPR is "at best" alt-right tolerant. I simply asked for evidence of this, with the caveat that conservatives do not necessarily look the same cross borders.
All in on that yellow. Well if you're going to commit. . .commit.
Well that's the great thing about it being reversible, if you want it to be yellow then it can be. It's completely reversible down to the zipper flipping over.
I don’t like yellow but honestly it doesn’t bother me that much, I think deus ex hr kinda got me used to the “ aesthetic choice of having one super dominant color ( is there a technical term for that?) and from what I’ve seen it didn’t carry over to the actual gameplay where as almost everything in most parts of deus ex was a shade of gold with black.
It works very well together but hey it’s the cyberfuture and if your a fixer with a neon blue zebra jacket then more power to you.
I mean, I think portraying Europe as this super progressive society has its own problems.
It’s not progressive. I just mean it didn’t have the collapse that America had.
The EU is a big power and it’s fashion brands are trend setters.
Sorry, when you said having its shit together, I conflated it with the other topic at hand.
Unlike the US which is, of course, completely homogeneous.
Q: "So is Keanu more of a cameo?"
A: "*laughs* Oh no! Oh no! He is basically like a second protagonist."
edit- In case you can't currently watch the video here is a breakdown of some of the best bits.
You can complete the game as (mostly) human. The exceptions are the cyber-eye and the grip mod that lets you climb.
There is no reputation system. V is a freelancer and can work for anyone. Though there will be missions you could take that may put you in opposition to another faction during that mission.
You can steal vehicles.
There are several vehicles you can own and store in your garage and summon whenever you want.
No vehicle customization, but they are discussing it internally.
Clothing doesn't affect how people react to you, but you will have certain missions in which you need to dress the part.
Many buildings are enterable, but most are not. Any building you can enter however has content in it.
There are six Districts, each broken down in to sub-districts.
Most Districts have their own "police" force. In a Corp dominated district Corp Security would be policing. In a Gang dominated district the Gang enforces order.
Flying cars are not pilotable, but you will ride in them.
Multiple endings.
Your background choices will open or close certain missions. Most of the game's content is playable the first time through however.
Background will also have an effect on dialogue choices when dealing with certain people.
Can you save Jackie? No comment.
Everybody has their own local networks because the old internet blew up and collapsed society. Old internet is still there behind the Blackwall and is something of a Cthulhian domain run by rogue AI. Will you visit it? Gotta play the game to find out.
You can GTA through crowds.
You can go pretty much full cyborg if you want.
Different Augs can give you access to new areas you may not have been able to reach otherwise.
You can mod weapons.
No Cyber-Gwent
Just as a general thing this place has become a little bit uncomfortable. And, especially for allies, I think we really have to be careful about how much we speak for the people we are allies of. Not every member of a given community feels the same way about this particular topic or any other. And when allies are speaking so very strongly about a topic in defense of a community it can make things very uncomfortable for certain members of that very community they are trying to speak for who don't fully agree.
Support is great. Just maybe careful when speaking for others is all.
And sorry if anything I said contributed to any of the negative environment in the past few days.
More Mike Pondsmith is always a treat.
The city looks so dang cool.
Not for the stupid money a couple of chancers have put them on eBay for, but still.
Steam | XBL
Also interesting that he's not a cameo like Charles Dance in W3 (though he did a great Emhyr).
http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
I'll let you touch mine, maybe even try it on. 8-)
Oh no, how many hours will I have to spend in line to play it...
Cyberpunk designer says CDPR is working on transgender character options
I'll believe they've turned a new stone when we've seen release and it's free of bullshit.
Warframe Spoilers, of all things?
like, listen. Game companies are Lorge. Especially ones like CDPR. And in this case, they've got Mike Pondsmith breathing down their necks, AND now Keanu Reeves, and both of them have a pretty decent track record with trans folks (MP altered the rules for CP2020's 2005 edition in a way that made it wayyy easier to get gender confirmation surgery; Keanu Reeves has been working mostly with a pair of transgender women for... uh... well, as long as he's been working with the Wachowski Sisters now). So if public outrage doesn't do it, Keanu giving them sad puppy eyes might? Or threatening to walk if they don't shape the fuck up.
The point is, that a game company isn't one dumbass, it's a whole fuckton of people, who often have dissenting opinions. I have cautious (very cautious, but) optimism here.
(And, again: I'm a nonbinary/agender/genderqueer/uhhhh gender?? i hardly know 'er! asexual bir--- I'm fucking queer okay, I don't need to give you receipts. And while I ABSOLUTELY do not speak for every queer person ever, I can at least speak for *me*, and what I have is cautious optimism.)
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/