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Cyberpunk 2077 - It Can't Get Darker Than Night City, Right?

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Posts

  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    GitS: SAC is some of my favorite media period. It largely avoids all of the things that makes anime gross and/or creepy, and is thoughtful about what it does. And, yeah, as I grow older it feels like its only more prescient.

    It's why I hope that Cyberpunk actually has something worthwhile to say. I don't mind romps, but cyberpunk as a genre - especially today - seems like it can really explore the nightmare world we're currently living in. Like, I know that Watch_Dogs 3 has something to say, even if it's going to be 110% hamfisted in that classic Ubisoft way. But there's room for more.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Yeah, the great thing about well-done scifi, especially with a realistic bent to it, is that society grows towards the issues it explores and it becomes increasingly relevant instead of merely a "what if?" thought experiment. Tech gets better, but people are still people and there's no way to tell how they'll actually respond en masse to things that should be revolutionary or tiny.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    I sometimes describe Kenji Kamiyama's work as the as the Nolan films of that particular genre. Christopher Nolan's films are among my favorite (recent) American films, and easily my favorite American superhero films--they tend to be very deliberate, masterfully produced, and manage to avoid most of the things that make superhero films grotesque and creepy.

    The other Ghost in the Shell incarnations, with different directors such as Arise, or Dreamworks' thing, are pretty different in substantial ways. Something to keep in mind (conversely, people who don't like Stand Alone Complex might like those more in turn).

    Synthesis on
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  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    During one of the interviews, I think they said you could have a character more on the Togusa side of the spectrum, with minimal cybernetics. Now we just need to mod in a Mateba.

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  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Instead of coming up with a new hacking mini game I hope they make it a huge running joke with the same puzzles that are in every rpg. Give me that pipe dream and tower of Hanoi all day.

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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Talith wrote: »
    qbi350z6lb631.jpg
    Sasquatch is the leader of the Animals – a gang from west Pacifica known for their brutality and fascination with everything corporeal. But don’t let their looks fool you. Clever, professional and efficient, they are no ordinary thugs.

    In a world full of Mantis Blade and Smart Weapons, you've got to admire someone who just says "Fuck it. I'm going to beat you to death."

    Also, something mentioned by Digital Foundry about the 2018 demo, is how much work they've put into the character rigging, and the boss fight with this Sasquatch I think really shows that off.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    This line of discussion gave me the perfect comparison. The reason folks have been interested in the "social aspects" of what we've seen of the game link in. I'm worried this Cyberpunk game, if it fails to do some solid examination on racial disparity and gender identity now that it's introduced those topics voluntarily, is going to be to the Cyberpunk genre what the ScarJo movie was to GitS. A really cool spectacle that totally fails to carry the weight of the source material.

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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Nyysjan wrote: »
    One of the funnier (black humor) parts in one of the stand alone complex series was when an old lover got rather obsessed over the teams sniper.
    And decided to make herself a perfect copy of his cybernetic body and...
    Put her brain in it.
    After some murder mysteries, detective work, and a fight scene, the team now has one dead sniper, one alive sniper, and nobody knows which of them is which.
    So they give the dead one to the police as the murderer they had been looking for, and keep the live one and when asked which one died basicly go "who cares, got a <snipers name>"
    Humor aside, the series sometimes goes pretty deep (for an action series) about the nature of identity (in a world where memories can be edited like video footage), though i admit it sometimes gets pretty navel gazy.

    This particularly eerie chapter in 2nd GIG was actually not about Saitou (the Sniper--get it? "SIGHT-O"? Harhar) but Pazu, the team's resident ex-mobster-looking covert investigator, a role he shared with Togusa (who is much more wholesome looking, and was sent to the clinic to get beat up).
    If you look carefully, you can actually see in the subsequent knife-fight that the original Pazu from the beginning of the episode is indeed the survivor, and the duplicate is not. Section 9 would also have some more elaborate forensics that could tell the difference between to two, but at the moment, those would not be accessible.

    Ah right, been a decade since i watched it so some characters apart from the Major, Batou and Togusa can get somewhat mixed in memories.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    I love GitS but it has a distinct lack of 80s montages and that makes me sad.



    The central arc of Appleseed is that a super computer, Gaia, which runs the best city on the planet after World War 4, discovers a plot to fundamentally alter the human race. Going against type, the AI violently reacts and attempts to use the latest police mobile weapons platform to obliterate its rival AI Tartarus in order to preserve the human race at all costs.

    The central conflict being that even though cyborg technology is widespread, humans are just as likely to tear down their own society as before the war, and seemingly nothing can change that other than fundamentally altering the human genome into "Bioroids".

    And just as unexpectedly, the main characters decide to fight against Gaia's plan, because things can't keep going as they are. Human nature has to change. And so the AI is shut down, the majority of humans receive stipends to become Bioroids (longer lifespan, fewer emotional swings, increased intelligence etc), while those who want to stay normal humans are allowed to without discrimination. And a "preservation of the species" act is put into place to make sure ordinary humanity remains viable incase Bioroids face unexpected illness or genetic diseases in the future.

    Then it goes back to being mostly a cop/spec ops serial story, but it was a good twist I thought.

    manwiththemachinegun on
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  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    GitS: SAC is some of my favorite media period. It largely avoids all of the things that makes anime gross and/or creepy, and is thoughtful about what it does.

    It's like they had just some regular people off the street sitting in the writing room to tell the writers "Uh, that's not how normal people act around each other" whenever someone tried to dip into the usual anime interpersonal cringery.

    5gsowHm.png
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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited June 24
    The whole "More cyber == less humanity" is a game balance mechanic. Like wizards not being allowed to wear armour.

    Cyberpunk literature of the time when Shadow run and CP2020 were created really did not bend that way at all. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, for example, is overtly transhumanist in its philosophy.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited June 24
    ED! wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    Not to jump on but I. . .don't think this:
    Darkwolfe wrote:
    The trailer has something really basic going on, the good guys are mostly white, the bad guys are black.

    is an accurate representation of what we see in the trailer. I mean the MC is white (I guess) because that's what they've chosen to go for in the marketing, but The Voodoo Boys are not "bad guys" anymore than Stout was a "bad guy" from the gameplay demo in 2018. The Animals just seem like a diverse group of juiced up shitheads.

    Really feels like a lot of sentiment regarding representation in this games (that we've seen less than 1% of) is based off that initial RPS hot-take (a take which itself reads pretty shakey).

    I'm going to be honest I'd probably stab V in the back if I was the Voodoo Boys because

    I mean V's a mercenary who knows all their secrets and if she'd go kill the gang across the street for a few creds, she'd do the same to them

    What's most infuriating about the read on these characters from RPS is that it assumes that they betray V because "of course they will; they're blaaaaack" instead of "of course they will; this is a cut-throat world and whomever is on top wins." This
    RPS wrote:
    The violent black thugs betrayed us, as the corporate white man said they would. If CD Projeckt are trying to subvert expectations – if the punchline is, but sometimes the thugs are really thugs – then it’s not one that lands.

    line is kind of infuriating because it just ignores any context that might exist, and instead imputes motive based on personal bias of the author.

    I'm fairly certain that you will be betrayed by about 65,000,000 clean cut white corporate types in this game

    If you rescue a puppy, the puppy will betray you

    The only one who won't betray you is Keanu, Keanu would never betray anyone

    override367 on
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  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    Bigity wrote: »
    No familiarity with Cyberpunk PnP's hacking, but god I hope it's better in the videogame than decking is in the Shadowrun games.

    Which version of Shadowrun decking :D

    Returns and Dragonfall. Always a chore.

    s7Imn5J.png
  • ApostateApostate Registered User regular
    Sorry but screw anyone who wants to tell me how many hours I'm allowed to work.
    The whole "More cyber == less humanity" is a game balance mechanic. Like wizards not being allowed to wear armour.

    Cyberpunk literature of the time when Shadow run and CP2020 were created really did not bend that way at all. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, for example, is overtly transhumanist in its philosophy.

    Very much this. It was there to prevent players from all turning into Dragoon full conversions. The in universe back story grew out of that. I have a feeling Pondsmith would likely approach it a little differently in retrospect. I imagine, and hope, CDP figures out a better way to balance things.

  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I have a very, very important question:

    Is there an ability in Cyberpunk PnP or confirmed in the game that would resemble...a Force Push?


    Because the idea of a magnetic katana that deflect bullets made me think of a kid who really wanted to be a Jedi and now has access to all these fancy cyber toys. So that's my dude.

    Figure netrunning covers all the mental aspects of the Force, the bullet time and double jump for reflexes/agility, so I just need something for the telekinesis.

    Maybe somebody can mod in an arm attachment that's like those sonic guns from Minority Report.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

    Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited June 25
    ...

    /pokes my old editor from when I was in magazine work on Twitter like "yo can we turn a GitS marathon into some sort of CP2077 related article"

    (the answer is "maybe")

    Lucid_Seraph on
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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    edited June 25
    Axen wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

    Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
    Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.

    And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.

    Sneaks on
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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Sneaks wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

    Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
    Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.

    And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.

    *pops cyberwood*

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
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  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Sneaks wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

    Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
    Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.

    And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.

    *pops cyberwood*

    /erection.exe

    This process may take some time.

    /viagra.exe

    NightslyrLucid_SeraphElvenshaeBobbleAndy JoeJazzDonnicton
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    This is not the Ghost in the Shell thread.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Sneaks wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    God damn it guys, now I gotta go re-watch GitS: SAC again.

    Season 3 comes out in 2020 on Netflix. Now is a good a time as any to get a refresher!

    While there is a new Ghost in the Shell series coming to Netflix, it's not related to SAC. It's going to be its own, new thing.

    Ah, well they probably shouldn't have called it Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 then.
    Stand Alone Complex director Kenji Kamiyama is also co-directing the Netflix series, which is to say he's directing half the episodes. Shinji Aramaki (Appleseed) will direct the other half.

    And to keep this at least a bit related to the cyberpunk genre as a whole instead just Ghost in the Shell, I'll point out that apparently these two co-directors are also collaborating on a Blade Runner anime.

    *pops cyberwood*

    /erection.exe

    This process may take some time.

    /viagra.exe

    (progress bar)

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Reading up on the Animals and their outlook, I may consider doing a primarily physical run with little to no hacking adjacent stuff and try and be an intelligently guided bowling ball of pain.

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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Reading up on the Animals and their outlook, I may consider doing a primarily physical run with little to no hacking adjacent stuff and try and be an intelligently guided bowling ball of pain.

    Hm. SR (not sure about CP) references how cyber has affected sports. But I never thought about smart bowling balls and knowledge chips for Physics slotted.

    76561198017303226.png
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    Not to jump on but I. . .don't think this:
    Darkwolfe wrote:
    The trailer has something really basic going on, the good guys are mostly white, the bad guys are black.

    is an accurate representation of what we see in the trailer. I mean the MC is white (I guess) because that's what they've chosen to go for in the marketing, but The Voodoo Boys are not "bad guys" anymore than Stout was a "bad guy" from the gameplay demo in 2018. The Animals just seem like a diverse group of juiced up shitheads.

    Really feels like a lot of sentiment regarding representation in this games (that we've seen less than 1% of) is based off that initial RPS hot-take (a take which itself reads pretty shakey).

    I'm going to be honest I'd probably stab V in the back if I was the Voodoo Boys because

    I mean V's a mercenary who knows all their secrets and if she'd go kill the gang across the street for a few creds, she'd do the same to them

    What's most infuriating about the read on these characters from RPS is that it assumes that they betray V because "of course they will; they're blaaaaack" instead of "of course they will; this is a cut-throat world and whomever is on top wins." This
    RPS wrote:
    The violent black thugs betrayed us, as the corporate white man said they would. If CD Projeckt are trying to subvert expectations – if the punchline is, but sometimes the thugs are really thugs – then it’s not one that lands.

    line is kind of infuriating because it just ignores any context that might exist, and instead imputes motive based on personal bias of the author.

    I'm fairly certain that you will be betrayed by about 65,000,000 clean cut white corporate types in this game

    If you rescue a puppy, the puppy will betray you

    The only one who won't betray you is Keanu, Keanu would never betray anyone

    I found that critique of the game rather silly since there'd been a discussion in this thread about how the standard cyberpunk session was: Get hired to do a job, do the job, get betrayed by the people who hired you.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    I know what I really expect from the guys everyone insists are some of the best writers in the industry is stuff from a 16 year olds' first 2020 campaign.
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    I have a very, very important question:

    Is there an ability in Cyberpunk PnP or confirmed in the game that would resemble...a Force Push?


    Because the idea of a magnetic katana that deflect bullets made me think of a kid who really wanted to be a Jedi and now has access to all these fancy cyber toys. So that's my dude.

    Figure netrunning covers all the mental aspects of the Force, the bullet time and double jump for reflexes/agility, so I just need something for the telekinesis.

    Maybe somebody can mod in an arm attachment that's like those sonic guns from Minority Report.

    Nothing immediately comes to mind for this. Though the list of cybernetics from the splat books are absurd so you could almost certainly figure out a way to jerry rig something jedi adjacent.

    2077 being two generations down the line I feel like they'll happily have throwing weapons with magnetized hands or whatever if they wanted that angle.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    I know what I really expect from the guys everyone insists are some of the best writers in the industry is stuff from a 16 year olds' first 2020 campaign.

    And yet, if no one betrayed you after a mission, ever, it'd hardly be cyberpunk at all.

    Better to have it happen early and set the stage, and then use it sparingly.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Corporate backstabbing is a cornerstone of cyberpunk. In one shadowrun campaign I think we were backstabbing three groups simultaneously

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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited June 25
    schuss wrote: »
    Corporate backstabbing is a cornerstone of cyberpunk. In one shadowrun campaign I think we were backstabbing three groups simultaneously

    Not even just corporate really, but they set the gold bar.

    Bigity on
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  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Yeah, basically someone is going to backstab you in the game, may not necessarily be the same entity either. You will inevitably side with either a gang or gangs or a corporation of some sort, at least until you grow powerful enough that you can go rogue with your confidants and just sow chaos at your leisure. So create alliances knowing that they are always tentative, and have a backup plan for whenever they turn on you, or you turn on them.

    Basically be Batman, or David Xanatos. Have a plan to make every option a win, and only trust in a rare few. That kind of Machiavellian mindset is at the heart of Cyberpunk, because the setting banks on everyone being in it for themselves.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    The other end of it is that when you start this game, you're effectively nobody. You have no standing no credibility and no reputation so people who have those things are going to use you like a disposable lighter and will continue to do so until you prove that you aren't someone who should be fucked with.

    This is the most basic component of cyberpunk.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I'm going to play through as a corpo slimeball lady-V that never gets any augmentations and puts all the points into "talk enemies down"

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    The other thing is that if you don't backstab corporations in cyberpunk things, and they don't backstab you, then... you're... really just a freelance corporate shill, congrats?

    (apparently the most recent edition of Shadowrun accidentally stepped in that one by saying that runners take jobs from corps so that eventually they can... make their own corp??? and "change things from the top?" which is the most liberterian techbro thing I've ever heard, and basically the opposite of punk)

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  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    The other thing is that if you don't backstab corporations in cyberpunk things, and they don't backstab you, then... you're... really just a freelance corporate shill, congrats?

    (apparently the most recent edition of Shadowrun accidentally stepped in that one by saying that runners take jobs from corps so that eventually they can... make their own corp??? and "change things from the top?" which is the most liberterian techbro thing I've ever heard, and basically the opposite of punk)

    Yikes

    76561198017303226.png
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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Sure making it big and replacing the people on top is a perfectly valid motivation for a shadowrunner.
    But damn.

  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    Shadowrunner, yes, lets make sure everything is nice and legal here and we have the proper paperwork submitted for your new 100% legal SIN.

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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    More slow drips from the Cyberpunk 2077 twitter:





    Pretty much just teasing us with stuff I expect we'll get a chance to see in the gameplay demo once it drops at PAX. That music though from the PS4 (static) theme is pretty moody.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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