We're going to be adding some advertisements to the forums! If you notice any weirdness around this or spot bad/inappropriate ads, please make a thread in the bugs forum.

Cyberpunk 2077 - It Can't Get Darker Than Night City, Right?

1919294969799

Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.

    For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.

    I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.

    I'm hoping they go with a "Transhumanism is cool!" angle, since that alone would make them stand out from other cyberpunk efforts.

    destroyah87NightslyrMoridin889
  • MassenaMassena Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.

    For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.

    I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.

    Yeah I think they junked the idea because it would be difficult to integrate into a game without a DM who can balance it out a bit. I suspect they will limit how much chrome goes in based on a more direct barrier like currency or merchant availability. Additionally, given some of the political troubles they've had, I can understand why they would be super hesitant to wade into anything like "changing your body means losing your humanity."

    I was super impressed, and mildly weirded out, during the demo video thought when they did the eye implant and the hand thing. Doing this in the first person is going to help hammer home some of the decisions you're making are being done to you and not some avatar.

    destroyah87ChiselphaneMoridin889Mr Ray
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    It's increasingly becoming the stance: To make sure that the bad bits about augs are the companies attached and not 'bodily autonomy is witchcraft'.

    Heck I've heard even Shadowrun 6th edition is changing the language to make it clear that it's a magic problem, not an empathy/becoming less 'human' one.

    NightslyrMassena3clips3Fencingsaxoverride367ElldrenHappy Little Machine
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Massena wrote: »
    Cyberpunk has always been summed up best, to me, by the phrase "high tech, low life". Sure, there's all kinds of amazing tech, and that tech is forcing reinterpretations of what it means to be human, what it means to be your own being, etc. But the story or narrative focus keeps coming back to the "ordinary" struggles of people trying to get by. Which is why something like star wars isn't cyberpunk and something like GitS threads the line enough that folks have trouble classifying it.

    The basic gist can (and usually does) have mega corps that are as strong as (or stronger than) nation states, or it can have some forms of body modification (sacred vs profane, "humanity measure", losing something indefinable but precious for practical and immediate advantage), but those are just interpretations of the basic concept of "high tech, low life". If a story is focused on how nations are moving and the politics of espionage or war, or exploration, it ain't cyberpunk. If it's about a cop doing a thing because that's the job, or a person doing work with shady organizations because they made some bad decisions in life, or the struggles of a woman trying to hold together a family and a community (in a world gone sideways), that's probably cyberpunk. Is it a world that we could see as our own, through a glass and darkly, and is the focus on "ordinary" things? Cyberpunk.

    If you go back to the roots with authors like Gibson, the heart of cyberpunk was pushback against the idea that technological progress is intrinsically linked with human progress. The classic Gibson tale is a world where life has gotten progressively worse for everyone except the mega-rich because of technological advances, and the best anyone else can do is survive.

    "The future is here; it's just not evenly distributed." -- Gibson

    As I said upthread, I think the real downfall of Cyberpunk as a genre is that reality has basically become Gibsonian cyberpunk, but without the cool shades. I mean I just had a big chat with some folks about how the best way to avoid surveillance isn't to turn off your phone, because that's too conspicuous; it's to give your phone to someone who lives with you who will go through the rote actions you'd go through on a daily basis ("spend X time checking Facebook; take the bus to class"). Because anything else is enough of a deviation that law enforcement can pick up on it. To quote the terrifying convo, "The only people who turn off their phones for long periods time to drop off the grid are criminals."

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
    NightslyrDarkPrimusCommander ZoomMegaMekAndy JoeElldren
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Massena wrote: »
    Cyberpunk has always been summed up best, to me, by the phrase "high tech, low life". Sure, there's all kinds of amazing tech, and that tech is forcing reinterpretations of what it means to be human, what it means to be your own being, etc. But the story or narrative focus keeps coming back to the "ordinary" struggles of people trying to get by. Which is why something like star wars isn't cyberpunk and something like GitS threads the line enough that folks have trouble classifying it.

    The basic gist can (and usually does) have mega corps that are as strong as (or stronger than) nation states, or it can have some forms of body modification (sacred vs profane, "humanity measure", losing something indefinable but precious for practical and immediate advantage), but those are just interpretations of the basic concept of "high tech, low life". If a story is focused on how nations are moving and the politics of espionage or war, or exploration, it ain't cyberpunk. If it's about a cop doing a thing because that's the job, or a person doing work with shady organizations because they made some bad decisions in life, or the struggles of a woman trying to hold together a family and a community (in a world gone sideways), that's probably cyberpunk. Is it a world that we could see as our own, through a glass and darkly, and is the focus on "ordinary" things? Cyberpunk.

    If you go back to the roots with authors like Gibson, the heart of cyberpunk was pushback against the idea that technological progress is intrinsically linked with human progress. The classic Gibson tale is a world where life has gotten progressively worse for everyone except the mega-rich because of technological advances, and the best anyone else can do is survive.

    "The future is here; it's just not evenly distributed." -- Gibson

    As I said upthread, I think the real downfall of Cyberpunk as a genre is that reality has basically become Gibsonian cyberpunk, but without the cool shades. I mean I just had a big chat with some folks about how the best way to avoid surveillance isn't to turn off your phone, because that's too conspicuous; it's to give your phone to someone who lives with you who will go through the rote actions you'd go through on a daily basis ("spend X time checking Facebook; take the bus to class"). Because anything else is enough of a deviation that law enforcement can pick up on it. To quote the terrifying convo, "The only people who turn off their phones for long periods time to drop off the grid are criminals."

    It's the reason that Gibson's current work has two tracks right now - near future that's mostly like ours but worse and current events told as if it was science fiction. He's got some far future stuff in The Peripheral, but even there he's mostly focusing on just what tech will be like in a decade or two.

    Phillishere on
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    One of these days, we will have a disaster with a smart house flipping out.

    Commander Zoom3clips3SynthesisNightslyrTransporterFencingsaxmanwiththemachinegunStabbity StyleBigityDonnictonJazzElvenshaeLucid_SeraphMoridin889Evigilantoverride367Elldren
  • 3clips33clips3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    One of these days, we will have a disaster with a smart house flipping out.

    With how many smart devices are already controlled by Russian or Chinese hackers, yeah it's inevitable.

    (see also: why my smart devices do not get to join wifi networks)

    Lucid_Seraph
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.

    For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.

    I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.

    I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
    DemonStacey
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    1990: "Why would all this stuff be on the net, where anybody could hack it? It's dumb and unrealistic."
    2020 (actual): "Oh."

    steam_sig.png
    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
    3clips3Stabbity StyleBigityDonnictonJazzMegaMekRhesus PositiveLucid_SeraphMoridin889Andy JoeCorsiniJoolanderlwt1973WildaliEvigilantironsizideSanguinius666264Mr RayElldrenHappy Little MachineBobble
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    One of these days, we will have a disaster with a smart house flipping out.

    With how many smart devices are already controlled by Russian or Chinese hackers, yeah it's inevitable.

    (see also: why my smart devices do not get to join wifi networks)

    Don't worry. The NSA and FBI mandated back doors required by law in every design will protect us. These are, after all, institutions famously immune to abuse and need not be impeded by oversight.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
    BigityCommander ZoomDonnictonMegaMekLucid_SeraphTheStigironsizideMr RayBobble
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.

    For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.

    I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.

    I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."

    Yea I totally agree. I hope I am remembering this correctly!

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    I wonder if losing your humanity to the implants will be an issue in the game.

    For example, you will start having cold and technical dialogue options.

    I could be mistaken but I think I remember that they said it's not a thing in the game.

    I really hope it's not. I was fine with the penalties for getting all drugged up in Witcher 3 because you could extend the toxicity meter, however I don't want to have to worry about min-maxing in this game and not having real freedom to create a character. I'm sure there'll be something in there to prevent you from becoming a toaster but I hope it's not the Deus Ex route of "hey you're oversparking your CPU widgets."

    Yea I totally agree. I hope I am remembering this correctly!

    My big hope with this game is that there is a good mix of "combat" missions and just living in the world stuff. For all the flack Rockstar gets these days, one thing they are very good at is creating a balance where not every mission is about fighting and even the fighting ones do setup to show off the setting and the motivations of the characters you are going to get into conflict with.

    DemonStacey
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    It's increasingly becoming the stance: To make sure that the bad bits about augs are the companies attached and not 'bodily autonomy is witchcraft'.

    Heck I've heard even Shadowrun 6th edition is changing the language to make it clear that it's a magic problem, not an empathy/becoming less 'human' one.

    To be fair, SR always played it off as more lore based - Pattern issue, tying into Earthdawn. The less meat you had (replaced with metal anyway), the more your Pattern changed - which made magic less effective on you (at least mana based spells vs just blowing stuff up). Once it changed too much, you basically died.

    Cybermancy/zombies was a way to bypass that death with all kinds of drawbacks. I don't recall the emphasis so much on psychosis with cyberware overall vs you just died at some point, with some social penalties towards the extreme end.

    In short, I don't think that angle was played up as much as CP. Now that the properties are seperated, that link doesn't really exist anyway.

    Bigity on
    76561198017303226.png
    Commander Zoom
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    1990: "Why would all this stuff be on the net, where anybody could hack it? It's dumb and unrealistic."
    2020 (actual): "Oh."

    A phone vs your pacemaker are a little different though. But basically yea.

    EDIT: Hell, pacemakers are wireless. Replace with 'illegal cyberarm with a gun built in'

    Bigity on
    76561198017303226.png
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    It's still dumb, and bad security, but it happens anyway. For reasons. (Simple laziness and "why not" mostly.)

    In both the games and reality, it's like people just forgot, somewhere back around 2010, the concept of airgapping and not having everything hooked up to the Matrix by default. And we don't even have decent IC protecting our Internet of Things.

    steam_sig.png
    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    @Synthesis

    re: the oshii movie I would note that while taken in toto it is definitely less than sac, I think the 5 minute tank fight sequence is the most elegant wordless examination of transhumanism in anything ever. and done entirely through implication and gunfire no less...

    if I was not on phone over Pacific I would make long effort post but it is worth a rewatch for those who have not seen it or forgotten it; doubly fascinating because the 2016 live action version slavishly steals so much from it and yet manages to totally miss the point

    and the music is sublime of course

    obF2Wuw.png
    ElvenshaeMegaMekSynthesisNightslyr
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I mean, the answer for most stuff is that they're relying on the security of both 'why would they hack my random lights' and that it's still a technical skill to hack stuff.

    It's not like most locks are some super secure, perfect security device. They just work well enough by existing.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    ugtiol2x0w631.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=6b461a1c598b0ca489fb9fdaafa4eee4fa1bff17


    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
    ElvenshaeEvilOtakuNightslyrmanwiththemachinegunMancingtomNitsualwt1973Chiselphaneironsizideoverride367Sanguinius666264Genji-GlovesMr RayBobble
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Krathoon wrote: »
    One of these days, we will have a disaster with a smart house flipping out.

    With how many smart devices are already controlled by Russian or Chinese hackers, yeah it's inevitable.

    (see also: why my smart devices do not get to join wifi networks)

    Didn’t vulnerabilities due to the Internet of Things knock out Twitter a while back?

    Although that might not be so much of a disaster these days

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    Lucid_SeraphMassena3clips3
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    @Synthesis

    re: the oshii movie I would note that while taken in toto it is definitely less than sac, I think the 5 minute tank fight sequence is the most elegant wordless examination of transhumanism in anything ever. and done entirely through implication and gunfire no less...

    if I was not on phone over Pacific I would make long effort post but it is worth a rewatch for those who have not seen it or forgotten it; doubly fascinating because the 2016 live action version slavishly steals so much from it and yet manages to totally miss the point

    and the music is sublime of course

    Solid State Society, taken in toto, is more thoughtful and philosophic than Oshii's film--not that that's necessarily a good thing. Plus, old people are taking over.

    The Multiped Tank fight is a choreographic and auditory masterpiece, but to be honest, there are moments in the Oshii film that do transhuman examination much better--but most of them do involve talking (they don't talk much during the active camouflage water fight, even if, yes, there is no giant tank in it). The Oshii film is popular for a reason--it's just not that Ghosty in the Shells, when you get right down for it.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    EDIT: Thoughts for a different thread.

    DarkPrimus on
    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    s7Imn5J.png
    Commander ZoomSyngyneBigity
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    ... but the model name is Kusanagi ...

    I guess that makes it a motokorbike?

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
    FencingsaxEvilOtakuNightslyrCommander ZoomJazzSyngyneDonnictonMegaMekPMAversNyysjanJoolanderAxen3clips3Rchanenoverride367Stabbity StyleGenji-GlovesLanlaornMr RayBobble
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.

    5gsowHm.png
    The Zombie Penguindestroyah87
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.

    I imagine that most players will inadvertently install their own cyberbike components shortly after acquiring said bike.

    ElvenshaeRhesus PositiveFencingsax
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    ugtiol2x0w631.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=6b461a1c598b0ca489fb9fdaafa4eee4fa1bff17


    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    epu23czvnvyu.jpg

    Hoo boy, someone watched themselves some Bubblegum Crisis growing up in Poland. And I ain't even mad, that's a fucking radical bike.

    wbee62u815wj.png
    MassenaNightslyrElvenshaeIanatorFencingsaxNyysjanAxenChiselphaneEvigilantAndy JoeJazzStabbity StyleSanguinius666264Genji-GlovesElldrenBobble
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    I see those little bracing wheels in the back.

    That bike is built for some acceleration.

    manwiththemachinegunMassenaNightslyrElvenshaeFencingsax3clips3JazzironsizideStabbity StyleElldrenHappy Little MachineBobble
  • QuiotuQuiotu Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.

    Are we suggesting we want something along the lines of Cyberpunk Heelys in the game?

    wbee62u815wj.png
    FencingsaxElvenshae
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    You can't escape anime, it was inside you all along.

    Commander ZoomNightslyrDonnictonFencingsaxElvenshaeschuss3clips3TheStigEvigilantAndy JoeStabbity StyleBobble
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I'm hoping for Kaneda's bike.

    PSN/XBL/Nintendo/Origin/Steam: Nightslyr 3DS: 1607-1682-2948
    Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
    Elvenshae
  • milskimilski UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ UNTZ Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm hoping for Kaneda's bike.

    That's only allowed if you can pull off the Akira Slide at some point

    You can't write me off like that! You're just a voice, pal! You don't know a DAMN THING ABOUT RACING!!
    Banzai5150MancingtomElvenshaeNightslyrEvigilantAndy Joedestroyah87CampyironsizideStabbity StyleGenji-GlovesLanlaorn
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I'm hoping for Kaneda's bike.

    That's only allowed if you can pull off the Akira Slide at some point

    that's just how motorcycles be

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I look at that bike, hear people talking about anime, and becoming cyber bikes and I think of two things, first this:

    Also this:

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    PapaganderNightslyr
  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.

    Now I need this in game.

    giphy.gif

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
    schussNightslyrironsizideTOGSolidBobble
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    There are apparently more than a few anime references in CP2077. And more than a few GitS references. Besides the bike, I guess you may come across some familiar bits of clothing too among other things.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    ElvenshaeNightslyrFencingsaxJazz
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I mean, the whole games aesethic is old school cyberpunk. It’d be weird if it didn’t have overt anime influences

    PhillishereCommander ZoomFencingsaxElvenshaeAndy Joedestroyah87Stabbity Style
  • DoublySymmetricDoublySymmetric Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Oh man that bike looks rad.

    From a Famitsu article.

    I can't get excited about this because I know that riding a motorcycle in a videogame inevitably leads to regret.

    I'm dissappointed it's not just a pair of wheels that pop out between your hands and knees to make you a cyberbike.

    @Gaddez with the Return to Oz reference that popped into my head. Those guys were CREEPY and I have no idea why my parents let me watch that so young..

    Steam - DoublySymmetric (43687993)
    Blizz ID - DoublySymm#1758
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    Even Firefly had some anime. Remember that anime commercial that causes River to flip out?

    3clips3MegaMekMassenaTynnanemnmnme
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Krathoon wrote: »
    Even Firefly had some anime. Remember that anime commercial that causes River to flip out?

    Fruityyy, Oatyyy bar!

    Make a man out of a mouse!

    BlackDragon480 on
    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    Even Firefly had some anime. Remember that anime commercial that causes River to flip out?

    Fruityyy, Oatyyy bsr!

    Make a man out of a mouse!

    Make you bust out of your blouse!

    BlackDragon480
Sign In or Register to comment.