There actually are many people that do say the same things about movie "critics." Just look up Earl Dittman, or better, that critic that was not a real person and was just a Sony marketing tool. They're often called Quote Whores and the same gist is generally applied to them that tends to come up in the video game journalism debate, that they're junket junkies.
"So and so of USA Today calls it a tour de force"
BTW anyone that uses tour de force should be flayed alive.
Is that what you got from my post or are you being more broad? I'm a bit of an odd duck (to put it mildly...) and no, marketing in general doesn't work on me. I'm a cynical jerk, so I see an ad and it doesn't even matter what it is or what it's for; it gets brushed off immediately. If I'm interested in something it's because I did my own research, not because I saw a shiny picture.
Plus, I use adblock and don't have cable. Where am I going to see ads?
Marketing works just as well, if not better, on people who don't think that marketing works on them.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
The delayed reviews combined with poor scores it seems to be getting don't bode well for Warfighter. Luckily, ORC shows how important reviews are to most people plus the all important day one sales are over with!
The fact that the ads looked painfully generic didn't help. Neither did Activision carpet-bombing the airwaves for ads for CODBLOPS2 starting pretty much the day after MW3 came out.
Is that what you got from my post or are you being more broad? I'm a bit of an odd duck (to put it mildly...) and no, marketing in general doesn't work on me. I'm a cynical jerk, so I see an ad and it doesn't even matter what it is or what it's for; it gets brushed off immediately. If I'm interested in something it's because I did my own research, not because I saw a shiny picture.
Plus, I use adblock and don't have cable. Where am I going to see ads?
Marketing works just as well, if not better, on people who don't think that marketing works on them.
to a degree yes;
I really enjoyed bud light ads a few years ago but I will never in a million years buy bud light. Will i necessarily chastise some who drinks bud light? Yes. But my impression of the brand isn't the same as it is for some thing like charmin or clorox or tmobile where their ads have turned me into a hate filled monster that would kill puppies in satanic sacrifice to have their products disappear forever.
although, i think I'm the opposite of the person you describe where I care very much about advertisements as a form of entertainment/product information.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
I think they've said that it depends on how people take to Connor. Since everyone thought Ezio was the man, they kept him around for more games.
Some clarity: There was no legal action taken from Intent. We asked Eurogamer to remove cruel content about a staff member. They obliged.
Also, Cook seems to not be acting really thin skinned .
[Hi guys, Dave Cook here, I have to clarify that at the time I didn't see the hashtag thing as an issue, but earlier on when it was called into question I saw what people were driving at.
I also earlier today pledged my PS3 to the Sick Kids Save Point charity, which means it's going to a children's hospital instead. I amn't keeping it.
As for marketing and PR, almost everybody thinks they are above it. It is a bias that people have. "But I am really above it!" is exactly what everybody with the bias thinks for no real reason.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
I think they've said that it depends on how people take to Connor. Since everyone thought Ezio was the man, they kept him around for more games.
Connor's got some big ass shoes to fill. Ezio was the most likeable game protagonist ever.
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
I think they've said that it depends on how people take to Connor. Since everyone thought Ezio was the man, they kept him around for more games.
Connor's got some big ass shoes to fill. Ezio was the most likeable game protagonist ever.
Not to mention Ezio never killed any 'Muricans like that Connor bastard!
Seriously, I'm still amused that Ubisoft keeps covering up the fact that you'll be killing colonists too.
Seriously, I'm still amused that Ubisoft keeps covering up the fact that you'll be killing colonists too.
The average person would probably, unfortunately, take that as Ubi pushing it as a selling point if they mentioned it. Honestly it IS for me, though :P
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
I think they've said that it depends on how people take to Connor. Since everyone thought Ezio was the man, they kept him around for more games.
Connor's got some big ass shoes to fill. Ezio was the most likeable game protagonist ever.
Pfffft... Q*Bert... HA! Ezio Auditore is my home boy.
Why, because his initial establishing character scene is that he's a drunken lout that sleeps with anything that'll hold still long enough for him to stick his dick in?
you said you quit doing that
Yeah, I never see commercials at all and even I'VE seen Wreck It Ralph trailers.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
Most likely. Expect the AC B-team to work on the next two games or so, giving the A-team the chance to reimagine everything from the ground up again. That's how it worked with AC3, who's team started work in Jan/Feb of 2010 (which was only a few months after AC2 launched). Corey May is credited as the lead writer for AC, AC2, and AC3, but only helped with the other games to ensure thematic consistency. Jeffrey Yohalem was the lead writer for Brotherhood. Darby McDevitt for Revelations.
I prefer this to Activision's alternating development scheme for CoD.
Speaking of Qbert - I wonder who actually owns him now? He was a Gottleib game and the last game of his was the PSOne version by Hasbro of all companies (it was a great game BTW).
Speaking of Qbert - I wonder who actually owns him now? He was a Gottleib game and the last game of his was the PSOne version by Hasbro of all companies (it was a great game BTW).
Apparently a holding company called Gottlieb Development LLC that isn't shy about loaning him out.
Q-Bert is on PSN. Sony did a remake of it for the iPod and the website says they own the rights. However, there was a Dreamcast game by Atari so they must have gotten the rights somehow. http://www.sonypictures.com/mobile/qbert/
Pfffft... Q*Bert... HA! Ezio Auditore is my home boy.
Also, are there really no MoH:Warmans reviews anywhere? I couldn't find any Tuesday or yesterday...
Sites are taking their time and probably more stuff will be available later. But I saw a thread collecting the scores available. 5.5 seems to be the average of the numbers.
I think a 6-hour forgettable campaign and the horrible GUI seem to be the main culprits along with a big day-one patch. The MP seems to be ok with the buddy system a great idea.
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"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Reviewers didn't get copies of Warmakering until the release day, because of that ridiculous day 1 patch. That's why you're not seeing many reviews yet.
Hearing reports of layoffs at Turbine, now. Boston developers getting hit hard this week.
sad, but not that shocking to me.
Their handful of ftp mmos can't be pulling in a ton of money, and I haven't heard of them working on anything other than LOTR expansions.
and I would bet they've even stopped on making the expansions after this last one. Warner Brothers is probably chopping the studio down into a size just big enough to keep the games running until they stop bringing in a profit.
I'm more saddened by Eurogamer's capitulation in changing the article than anything else.
The loss of an interesting writer too.
Hope RPS pick up Rab for some more pieces alongside Cardboard Children.
He can do better than RPS. They are as bad, if not worse, at selling out their integrity.
Please don't treat them as some kind of last bastion of good games journalism.
Furthermore, were I at Eurogamer I would have pulled the article too. For the sole purpose of manufacturing the Streisand effect. Had it stayed up, there would be no mirroring of the article and it wouldn't have snowballed like this. I don't think they did this, though.
And I don't think for a second Eurogamer were afraid of litigation. And John Walker is talking out of his ass when he blames this on impenetrable UK libel law. Our libel laws are far reaching but not confusing, nor oppressive. Anyone backing down from speculative lawsuits is doing so out of ignorance of the law, not deference. I've been challenged on plenty of my articles in the past, it is part and parcel of being a journalist - just as malpractice suits are part of being a doctor - the bottom line is that if Eurogamer had any balls (or one qualified journalist on staff) they would have laughed off the suit as ridiculous. It would never have gone to court, it wouldn't have even got anywhere near.
Noone in this story comes off with any respect left, except Rab himself. Every comment I've seen on the issue, even from people who are supposedly on the 'good side' of this thing, like John or the rest of the RPS guys, has been morally sound but totally ignorant of reality.
You think games journalism is bad because of this? This is the tip of the iceberg. Corruption is the least of our worries.
edit: by suit I mean the imagined suit that people initially thought was real. No actual suit has been filed (for the reasons I just said), which makes their capitulation even more spineless and dumb.
This Zynga stuff is really reminding me of the period pre-Atari crash. New market, oversaturation, filled with crap...it's eerily similar.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
I feel kinda bad for Boston now. That's the fourth studio that has had layoffs, you guys have said. That can't be all that good.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
The big problem with video games journalism is one that isn't really going to go away any time soon, and that's the problem of access. Specifically, the time and money investment to consume a game makes the journalism and criticism surrounding video games much more easily controlled by the advertising and production companies.
The big problem with video games journalism is one that isn't really going to go away any time soon, and that's the problem of access. Specifically, the time and money investment to consume a game makes the journalism and criticism surrounding video games much more easily controlled by the advertising and production companies.
No. The biggest problem are the barriers to entry. As was mentioned in the SA thread, there are hardly any regulations on games journalists now that all the magazines have closed. Most of them are internet bloggers. That means no training, no qualifications, no quality control and no legal arbitration. It's what Shawn Elliot wisely said all those years ago - Games journalists are inaccurately named. They are professional enthusiasts. Gamers who became writers, not the other way around.
Which is part of the reason why so many were surprised at the quality of Forbes' coverage of the Mass Effect 3 ending debate. That is the quality of games journalism we could have were the journalists actually, you know, journalists.
I like Giant Bomb because they both keep themselves from letting devs influence them too much while still embracing the fact that they are fans with bias.
The big problem with video games journalism is one that isn't really going to go away any time soon, and that's the problem of access. Specifically, the time and money investment to consume a game makes the journalism and criticism surrounding video games much more easily controlled by the advertising and production companies.
Yeah, unfortunately that's not something we're likely to get away from.
I like Giant Bomb because they both keep themselves from letting devs influence them too much while still embracing the fact that they are fans with bias.
Counterpoint: Their unboxing vids. Whether they give the games good or bad reviews, or give the free stuff to charity or not, doesn't matter. They film the shit they get from PR scum.
And I've met a fair amount of PR scum. I used to be PR scum. That's all we ever wanted. One video showing a box of cool Halo merchandise being watched by X amount of people is far more valuable than if no-one ever saw the stuff and the Giant Bomb review was merely inflated as a result.
I like Giant Bomb too but they are as much a part of the machine as anybody else. Their cheap & cheerful, rough-around-the-edges style of presenting is a nice distraction, but the only worthwhile content on their site are the quicklooks, the one place that has no editorial control (except when it does but let's not hate on them too much right now)
This Zynga stuff is really reminding me of the period pre-Atari crash. New market, oversaturation, filled with crap...it's eerily similar.
Only if Zynga = Atari, meaning that they are the dominant video game platform holder and software manufacturer in the game industry. As big as Zynga is, I would say they represent a very small section of the overall game industry. You couldn't say that about 1983 Atari.
I think the only thing crashing in this case is Zynga's style of social games.
Posts
"So and so of USA Today calls it a tour de force"
BTW anyone that uses tour de force should be flayed alive.
Respectfully disagree from decades of personal experience, but I fully agree that's the norm. It's funny to watch it actually unfold in front of you.
It really depends on how far "marketing" goes. Is simply hearing about a game and thinking it sounds cool/good considered falling for marketing?
The fact that the ads looked painfully generic didn't help. Neither did Activision carpet-bombing the airwaves for ads for CODBLOPS2 starting pretty much the day after MW3 came out.
Someone got paid to make sure you heard about that game. So yes.
to a degree yes;
I really enjoyed bud light ads a few years ago but I will never in a million years buy bud light. Will i necessarily chastise some who drinks bud light? Yes. But my impression of the brand isn't the same as it is for some thing like charmin or clorox or tmobile where their ads have turned me into a hate filled monster that would kill puppies in satanic sacrifice to have their products disappear forever.
although, i think I'm the opposite of the person you describe where I care very much about advertisements as a form of entertainment/product information.
Hmm, well alright then.
Moving along. Is the plan for Assassin's Creed 3 to have a couple of followups like AC2 did? I thought I remember hearing Ubi liked the way it worked out, but now I can't find it.
I think they've said that it depends on how people take to Connor. Since everyone thought Ezio was the man, they kept him around for more games.
Also, Cook seems to not be acting really thin skinned .
As for marketing and PR, almost everybody thinks they are above it. It is a bias that people have. "But I am really above it!" is exactly what everybody with the bias thinks for no real reason.
Connor's got some big ass shoes to fill. Ezio was the most likeable game protagonist ever.
Not to mention Ezio never killed any 'Muricans like that Connor bastard!
Seriously, I'm still amused that Ubisoft keeps covering up the fact that you'll be killing colonists too.
The loss of an interesting writer too.
Hope RPS pick up Rab for some more pieces alongside Cardboard Children.
The average person would probably, unfortunately, take that as Ubi pushing it as a selling point if they mentioned it. Honestly it IS for me, though :P
son we are gonna have words
Also, are there really no MoH:Warmans reviews anywhere? I couldn't find any Tuesday or yesterday...
Speaking of which, good goddamn has Disney been advertising it like crazy. It'll probably do pretty darn well at the box office.
Why, because his initial establishing character scene is that he's a drunken lout that sleeps with anything that'll hold still long enough for him to stick his dick in?
you said you quit doing that
Yeah, I never see commercials at all and even I'VE seen Wreck It Ralph trailers.
Most likely. Expect the AC B-team to work on the next two games or so, giving the A-team the chance to reimagine everything from the ground up again. That's how it worked with AC3, who's team started work in Jan/Feb of 2010 (which was only a few months after AC2 launched). Corey May is credited as the lead writer for AC, AC2, and AC3, but only helped with the other games to ensure thematic consistency. Jeffrey Yohalem was the lead writer for Brotherhood. Darby McDevitt for Revelations.
I prefer this to Activision's alternating development scheme for CoD.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Apparently a holding company called Gottlieb Development LLC that isn't shy about loaning him out.
http://www.sonypictures.com/mobile/qbert/
It's getting hammered, 5/10 for most reviews. A complete and utter turd considering 7/10 is "average" anymore.
Sites are taking their time and probably more stuff will be available later. But I saw a thread collecting the scores available. 5.5 seems to be the average of the numbers.
I think a 6-hour forgettable campaign and the horrible GUI seem to be the main culprits along with a big day-one patch. The MP seems to be ok with the buddy system a great idea.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
The nose is the telling bit.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Whoa - where'd you hear that?
(Kevin Fanning used to work at Harmonix, Volition, and Turbine)
sad, but not that shocking to me.
Their handful of ftp mmos can't be pulling in a ton of money, and I haven't heard of them working on anything other than LOTR expansions.
and I would bet they've even stopped on making the expansions after this last one. Warner Brothers is probably chopping the studio down into a size just big enough to keep the games running until they stop bringing in a profit.
He can do better than RPS. They are as bad, if not worse, at selling out their integrity.
Please don't treat them as some kind of last bastion of good games journalism.
Furthermore, were I at Eurogamer I would have pulled the article too. For the sole purpose of manufacturing the Streisand effect. Had it stayed up, there would be no mirroring of the article and it wouldn't have snowballed like this. I don't think they did this, though.
And I don't think for a second Eurogamer were afraid of litigation. And John Walker is talking out of his ass when he blames this on impenetrable UK libel law. Our libel laws are far reaching but not confusing, nor oppressive. Anyone backing down from speculative lawsuits is doing so out of ignorance of the law, not deference. I've been challenged on plenty of my articles in the past, it is part and parcel of being a journalist - just as malpractice suits are part of being a doctor - the bottom line is that if Eurogamer had any balls (or one qualified journalist on staff) they would have laughed off the suit as ridiculous. It would never have gone to court, it wouldn't have even got anywhere near.
Noone in this story comes off with any respect left, except Rab himself. Every comment I've seen on the issue, even from people who are supposedly on the 'good side' of this thing, like John or the rest of the RPS guys, has been morally sound but totally ignorant of reality.
You think games journalism is bad because of this? This is the tip of the iceberg. Corruption is the least of our worries.
edit: by suit I mean the imagined suit that people initially thought was real. No actual suit has been filed (for the reasons I just said), which makes their capitulation even more spineless and dumb.
No. The biggest problem are the barriers to entry. As was mentioned in the SA thread, there are hardly any regulations on games journalists now that all the magazines have closed. Most of them are internet bloggers. That means no training, no qualifications, no quality control and no legal arbitration. It's what Shawn Elliot wisely said all those years ago - Games journalists are inaccurately named. They are professional enthusiasts. Gamers who became writers, not the other way around.
Which is part of the reason why so many were surprised at the quality of Forbes' coverage of the Mass Effect 3 ending debate. That is the quality of games journalism we could have were the journalists actually, you know, journalists.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
Yeah, unfortunately that's not something we're likely to get away from.
Counterpoint: Their unboxing vids. Whether they give the games good or bad reviews, or give the free stuff to charity or not, doesn't matter. They film the shit they get from PR scum.
And I've met a fair amount of PR scum. I used to be PR scum. That's all we ever wanted. One video showing a box of cool Halo merchandise being watched by X amount of people is far more valuable than if no-one ever saw the stuff and the Giant Bomb review was merely inflated as a result.
I like Giant Bomb too but they are as much a part of the machine as anybody else. Their cheap & cheerful, rough-around-the-edges style of presenting is a nice distraction, but the only worthwhile content on their site are the quicklooks, the one place that has no editorial control (except when it does but let's not hate on them too much right now)
Only if Zynga = Atari, meaning that they are the dominant video game platform holder and software manufacturer in the game industry. As big as Zynga is, I would say they represent a very small section of the overall game industry. You couldn't say that about 1983 Atari.
I think the only thing crashing in this case is Zynga's style of social games.
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