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[Industry Thread] I shall call him...Mini Wii.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Even the Dreamcast had fewer apologists than the Vita does, it's pathetic.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Do people actually watch these gaming award shows?

    There is no where to go but up on Metacritic with Declassified at this point. That 29 has to hurt.

    I think they're lucky to be as high as they are already. Those two "4" scores seem a bit charitable. One would assume that for those publications to go lower than that would require a game that is completely broken (as in, does not boot), instead of just mostly broken (which Declassified is).

    I get the impression that the single player is easily a 1 but the multi (when you can get into a game) is worth a good 6 or 7. 4 sounds reasonable, especially given the "6 = terrible game" score system we see all over the place.

    Overall though, charging $10 more than the average game?! How many review scores are figuring that BS into it?

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  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Wow Emma stone in sleeping dogs for a 5 minute throwaway part?

    They obviously went for name over the character performance in the game there. It doesn't matter since Clem should take it.

    I expected to see spec ops in score but at least they have it for north's performance.

    It's kind of sad that they have categories for ps3/360 when they share 3/4 of the games with one exclusive each.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    The multiplayer is broken, though. Like, it doesn't work, from a technical standpoint. The reviews are all mentioning that they've only been able to play a handful of games in a multiple hour play session, due to lobbies frequently not working and inexplicable NAT errors.

  • vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    Wow Emma stone in sleeping dogs for a 5 minute throwaway part?

    They obviously went for name over the character performance in the game there. It doesn't matter since Clem should take it.

    I expected to see spec ops in score but at least they have it for north's performance.

    It's kind of sad that they have categories for ps3/360 when they share 3/4 of the games with one exclusive each.

    That's what I found silly too. Make the 360/PS3 categories have exclusives only to the console and make a Multi-platform category. I voted for Halo 4 and Journey as they were the best games only on their respective consoles.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    plufim wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Do people actually watch these gaming award shows?

    There is no where to go but up on Metacritic with Declassified at this point. That 29 has to hurt.

    I think they're lucky to be as high as they are already. Those two "4" scores seem a bit charitable. One would assume that for those publications to go lower than that would require a game that is completely broken (as in, does not boot), instead of just mostly broken (which Declassified is).

    Reading the user reviews on Amazon, I'm seriously confused. It's averaging a 4.5/5 Stars with 9 reviews currently. WTF is wrong with people?

    Vita exclusive syndrome. I picture them "enjoying" the game through gritted teeth.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the user reviews are fake.

  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    plufim wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Do people actually watch these gaming award shows?

    There is no where to go but up on Metacritic with Declassified at this point. That 29 has to hurt.

    I think they're lucky to be as high as they are already. Those two "4" scores seem a bit charitable. One would assume that for those publications to go lower than that would require a game that is completely broken (as in, does not boot), instead of just mostly broken (which Declassified is).

    Reading the user reviews on Amazon, I'm seriously confused. It's averaging a 4.5/5 Stars with 9 reviews currently. WTF is wrong with people?

    Vita exclusive syndrome. I picture them "enjoying" the game through gritted teeth.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the user reviews are fake.

    Multiple reviews by a particularly diehard SDF devotee.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    plufim wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Do people actually watch these gaming award shows?

    There is no where to go but up on Metacritic with Declassified at this point. That 29 has to hurt.

    I think they're lucky to be as high as they are already. Those two "4" scores seem a bit charitable. One would assume that for those publications to go lower than that would require a game that is completely broken (as in, does not boot), instead of just mostly broken (which Declassified is).

    Reading the user reviews on Amazon, I'm seriously confused. It's averaging a 4.5/5 Stars with 9 reviews currently. WTF is wrong with people?

    Vita exclusive syndrome. I picture them "enjoying" the game through gritted teeth.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the user reviews are fake.

    Multiple reviews by a particularly diehard SDF devotee.

    Whose Christ- excuse me, Holiday bonus depends on those scores, no doubt.

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Even the Dreamcast had fewer apologists than the Vita does, it's pathetic.

    I don't think the Vita, as a piece of hardware, needs apologists. It's unambiguously an exceptional piece of kit, surely? In terms of denialists (Ie people who think that it's somehow going to be a phenomenal success) are out of their minds, unless Sony do something completely out of character like a huge price drop.

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  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    The game music awards in these shows always go to games full of licensed music instead of original compositions. That's enough to know that it's a pile of shit.

    Who gets that award, anyway? An Associate Producer? A lawyer?

  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Even the Dreamcast had fewer apologists than the Vita does, it's pathetic.

    I don't think the Vita, as a piece of hardware, needs apologists. It's unambiguously an exceptional piece of kit, surely? In terms of denialists (Ie people who think that it's somehow going to be a phenomenal success) are out of their minds, unless Sony do something completely out of character like a huge price drop.

    Like the Dreamcast, the Vita's hardware & library does a fine job of defending itself. Unfortunately, just like the Dreamcast, the company responsible for the system wasn't in the best state financially when the system was released and so they can't fully support it the way it deserves (with advertising, an aggressive price, and moneyhats for key games & series).

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Nah apologists is right. I swear more people defend the system against perceived attacks then actually own the thing.

    Just like people came out of the woodwork years after the Dreamcast died with all sorts of vocal support.

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  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    I think the Vita is a fine piece of hardware, with a few great games, but I also think Sony is going to stop making them in a year, and try to forget it ever existed.

    Sony just didn't give it the launch it needed,not the right price, not enough marketing, not enough great games in the launch+first 6 months.

    And now it's lost all momentum, and attracting new developers to a stagnating ecosystem is just not possible without a lot of money, which Sony just doesn't have to throw around for the Vita.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    1.2 million people have pre-ordered games at Gamestop for the Wii U launch.
    GameStop patrons are more interested in Wii U than they initially were of the Wii, the retailer has revealed. Over 1.2 million individuals have pre-ordered Wii U games at GameStop, in addition to the 500,000 Wii U consoles claimed since opening up pre-orders back in September.

    That figure comes out to 2.4 games per console reserved, which GameStop has told Gamasutra is roughly twice the attach rate GameStop saw prior to the Wii launch. Top pre-orders include ZombiU, Assassin's Creed 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Scribblenauts Unlimited and New Super Mario Bros. U.

    The Wii U officially launches in North America on Sunday, November 18. On launch day, 23 different games will be available; a total of 50 games will be available within the Wii U launch window, which runs up to March 2013.

    joystiq.com/2012/11/15/report-gamestop-wii-u-game-pre-orders-at-1-2-million-double-th/

    That's a pretty impressive start for the system. I wonder if they're counting Nintendoland bundled with Deluxe models though, because that would be cheating. :p

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  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    1.2 million people have pre-ordered games at Gamestop for the Wii U launch.
    GameStop patrons are more interested in Wii U than they initially were of the Wii, the retailer has revealed. Over 1.2 million individuals have pre-ordered Wii U games at GameStop, in addition to the 500,000 Wii U consoles claimed since opening up pre-orders back in September.

    That figure comes out to 2.4 games per console reserved, which GameStop has told Gamasutra is roughly twice the attach rate GameStop saw prior to the Wii launch. Top pre-orders include ZombiU, Assassin's Creed 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Scribblenauts Unlimited and New Super Mario Bros. U.

    The Wii U officially launches in North America on Sunday, November 18. On launch day, 23 different games will be available; a total of 50 games will be available within the Wii U launch window, which runs up to March 2013.

    joystiq.com/2012/11/15/report-gamestop-wii-u-game-pre-orders-at-1-2-million-double-th/

    That's a pretty impressive start for the system. I wonder if they're counting Nintendoland bundled with Deluxe models though, because that would be cheating. :p

    That's not counting the console, that's for individual games.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Even the Dreamcast had fewer apologists than the Vita does, it's pathetic.

    What counts as being an apologist?

    Because I think the hardware is fantastic and that there are more good games than it's given credit for.

    Does that mean I'm an apologist because I don't jump on the "lol no good games" meme or am I safe because I can still see Sony has fucked up with it's pricing and marketing?

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    People coming out of the woodwork to defend it.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I think his impressions are from reading GAF. As usual PA is really level-headed.

    There are a lot of threads about the dire straights Vita is in and on just about every single page there is someone popping in to say "not sure what all the worry is about, I love my Vita dearly and have more games than I can play on it already, why is everyone talking about sales, sales don't matter! My backlog for this system is huge, and there's nothing but great stuff coming in the future!"

    It's constant, and it's generally in threads that are strictly about the sales performance of the Vita and what Sony can do to benefit their ailing system. Instead you get people ignoring the thread's primary topic of discussion to complain about how much other people talk about it. Obviously they don't like to be reminded of it, but it's not as if it's all for trolling them...it's statement of unfortunate fact.

    But this isn't a GAF treehouse, so that's not really relevant here.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    That's pretty vague.

  • BritishDavidBritishDavid Registered User regular
    If the VIta had launched at £200 with BLOPS 2 and XP that crossed over from the PS3/360 version, and 8-16 mutiplayer all those 13-18 year old kids would have gone crazy for it.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    What sporky said more or less. People here are chill about it, people in the real world usually don't know what it is or think its a PSP. People on gaf and a few other forums, violently defensive about it and willing to bring it up even in unrelated situations.

    The mental gymnastics some are showing vis a vis Black Ops Vita is shocking.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    GAF is not a good measure of anything.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Apologists have nothing to do with the system, but defending software which doesn't live up to the hype with a passion. Saw it about 4 years ago when PS3 games weren't perfect. it's at lest safe to say Grand Truismo 5 wasn't perfect now.

    To tie this to industry: does this kind of die-hard following net much for the company involved?

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  • programjunkieprogramjunkie Registered User regular
    My personal sticking point for Vita was always the insanely overpriced proprietary memory, because "fuck consumers," well, and the Dr. Strangelove-esque Red Scare about piracy.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    My personal sticking point for Vita was always the insanely overpriced proprietary memory, because "fuck consumers," well, and the Dr. Strangelove-esque Red Scare about piracy.

    Yeah, that's one of the big things for me. This PS+ deal with some of the best games on the platform being available for "free" is awesome, but I'm not going to be able to deal with that comfortably with 4 or 8 gigs. It's around $320 to get set up with just the basics.

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  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    The term "apologist" or any of its alterations shouldn't belong here in the first place. We're not discussing moral wrongdoings. We're discussing video games. That's a little extreme.

  • Descendant XDescendant X Skyrim is my god now. Outpost 31Registered User regular
    Would evangelist be a better word?

    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Lobbyist.

  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    My personal sticking point for Vita was always the insanely overpriced proprietary memory, because "fuck consumers," well, and the Dr. Strangelove-esque Red Scare about piracy.

    Yeah, that's one of the big things for me. This PS+ deal with some of the best games on the platform being available for "free" is awesome, but I'm not going to be able to deal with that comfortably with 4 or 8 gigs. It's around $320 to get set up with just the basics.

    $250 for System + Assassin's Creed: Liberation (or one of the other game bundles but AC is the best one)
    $80 for the largest Vita memory card (via Amazon)
    $15-$20 for carrying case
    $50 for a year of PS+ if you aren't already subscribed.
    $40 for Persona 4 Golden or another game of your choice if the PS+ collection & AC:L isn't enough.

    So that's $345-$440 for a powerful system and access to several high quality games. You get a lot of value for your money but it's still a lot of money when you could just go and buy a 3DS (or 3DS XL) and a game or two for $200-$250.

    And it's not surprising that there are a lot of Vita apologists on Neogaf because there are also a lot of Vita bashers there as well. Scarcely a day goes by when you don't see a new thread like "Should Sony put the Vita out of its misery?" or "Hahaha! Look how badly the Vita is selling compared to the 3DS!" Whereas here, we just have the Industry thread where most people tend to be level headed and the Vita thread which is just used by fans of the system.

    RainbowDespair on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    If the industry thread goes away, which it may at some point here depending on Waluigi, I think we will start seeing threads like those. But I think the discussion would still be pretty level-headed!

    UncleSporky on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    It would be a very sad console if it didn't have a complex system of apologetics that rivals Christian apologetics.

    The Vita apologetics has pretty much given up on claiming it isn't a sales disasters which should tell you a lot about the sales of the system. Instead, it focuses on how it has great games. They don't seem to see any connection between continuing to get great games and sales though.

    Speaking of Vita, their is a PA Report about how Sony will be screwed by Declassified.
    http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/call-of-duty-declassifed-is-horrible-but-its-sony-who-will-be-punished
    ...

    The Vita isn’t just struggling in the market, it’s drowning. Sony has had to decrease expectations for portable hardware sales multiple times, and sales are lower than they were this time last year, before the Vita was even released. In other words, Sony has released new hardware, but sales of the Vita combined with sales of the PSP can’t match the performance of just the PSP last year. That’s not a dip, that’s a death spiral.

    Developers are being sent a message with each high-profile game that’s released to tepid reviews and low sales: the Vita is toxic. Don’t go near it.

    By all accounts, everyone knew Call of Duty was going to be terrible. Very little information about the game was shared before launch. There were few previews. Very little video of the game was released. The game wasn’t sent to reviewers until after it was launched, if they got a copy at all. Sony and Activision seemed to go out of their way to try to hide the game’s existence from the press, perhaps hoping that it would sell a few copies based on the name alone before word of its lack of quality began to spread. No one talking about it was much better than everyone talking about how awful the game proved to be.
    Once again, this doesn’t really hurt Activision. The console and PC Black Ops 2 games will sell amazingly, the brand won’t be hurt by the terrible Vita game, and Nihilistic will soldier on as a company making mobile titles. On the other hand, Sony is stuck with a holiday season where stores are filled with bundles advertising a game that’s absolute shit. Sure, the $250 Vita bundle may basically give you the game for free, but having a customer’s first experience with your system be a broken, barely-there version of a popular franchise is incredibly damaging.

    What are they going to do when they go to the store, ask about Assassin’s Creed III: Liberation? Another big-name game with middling reviews. Resistance? That was abysmal as well. We can pray that a knowledgeable clerk will be able to point them towards Retro City Rampage or Gravity Rush. The best Vita games remain amazing, but sadly niche, titles like Rayman Origins or Lumines.

    Sony made a large, and very expensive, bet with the Vita. The idea was that gamers wanted a premium, console-quality experience from their handheld, along with full-priced games. It’s not a bad idea, and there may be a group of people out there who are interested in paying $50 per game for their favorite franchises in portable form.

    This all falls apart when companies fail to release high-quality versions of their games for Sony’s systems, and gamers are left with disappointment after disappointment. While Activision is ultimately responsible for the quality of their games, Sony is going to be the company that is hurt by the failure of Declassified.

    Without a single, mainstream, breakout hit for the system, developers have little reason to devote resources to the Vita. Once that decision is made, the system is all but done for except for a small number of Sony-created titles a year.

    There have already been some games that are believed to be cancelled like ZOE HD.

    Couscous on
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    I enjoy my vita. I enjoy a ton of the games. I don't really enjoy the memory card price, but I know it was a necessary evil.

    Regardless of what we, the generally clueless consumer, think... Piracy is an issue. I mean, you can't explain why so many PSP systems sold, yet no games ever did. Or the torrent freaks tracking data of PSP games getting tens of millions of downloads. Or Phantasy Star Portable coming out and twice as many people connected as who actually bought the game. There is like, hard, obvious evidence that PSP was a bastion of hard piracy. Any attempt to say otherwise is just that usual blatant consumer blindness that wants to think all companies, publishers and developers are dumb and 'omg lol piracy'.

    In fact, even if it were not true, the publishers still thought that. Things like the weird content manager and custom memory cards and such were built purely as a means of satisfying publishers. The 3ds and such? Nintendo managed to make flash card things illegal, unfortunately the same couldn't be done for modifying the PSP and similar because it was simply a software rewrite. (Also why modifying a Wii was never made illegal.)

    That being said, even if they can't afford to drop the price on the system itself, it still baffles me that they can't do a massive price cut on the memory cards. I know those things can't be particularly expensive to make and it'd at least really help out those who own the system and want to upgrade, or who simply like buying digital. I know I've personally skipped on a few PSN purchases because my memory card is pretty full of crap and I'm just not feeling motivated enough to play musical chairs with what games I have on there, currently.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    If piracy was what it took to sell the system, and you can't pirate on Vita, well...

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  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    Successful Vita strategy?

    20 bucks a month, PSN+ subscription, bayum.

    Even if people won't be able to keep up with the payments, it's a policy that would at the very least bolster hardware sales something fierce, and thus inspire at least a modicum of confidence in the product.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Have bundles ever actually helped significantly?

    Also, Ubisoft has to be considering cancelling Bioshock Vita at this point. From the few reports we have had, it hasn't actually started production. Or they could just turn the "unique" experience Levine has said he wanted to provide into a hacking minigame spinoff.

    Couscous on
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    I think bundles have been effective so much as a way to push a small bump in sales to correspond with the quality of the game its been bundled with.

    I don't think they have ever helped in the sense that it makes people think 'More value!!' or sold units in any long term way.

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Couscous wrote: »
    Also, Ubisoft has to be considering cancelling Bioshock Vita at this point. From the few reports we have had, it hasn't actually started production. Or they could just turn the "unique" experience Levine has said he wanted to provide into a hacking minigame spinoff.

    Bioshock is 2K games, not Ubisoft.

    I seriously doubt Bioshock Vita will be happening, and not just because of the poor Vita system sales. There's obviously something very wrong over there given all of the major staff members that have been quitting the Bioshock team of late.

    I'm very intrigued to see whether or not the PS+ Vita stuff helps system sales. Starting next week, a PS+ subscription in the US gets you 18 "free" games with new games regularly rotating in and old games staying yours as long as you subscribe. How long will it be before we see a console that completely embraces this kind of system and creates the cable TV equivalent for video games? Buy a PS5, pay say $50/month, and gain access to the system's entire library for as long as you pay your subscription fees. Instead of selling their games directly to gamers, companies would sell their games directly the system owners who would pay them with the money they're making from subscription fees.

    RainbowDespair on
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Will that kind of market sustain game sales, though? Cable channels still have to run ads to support themselves, and cable shows are produced on a budget - hell, they even need to do the whole bundle thing rather than a la carte to shore up the less profitable channels.

    What you are basically describing is a Spotify/OnLive kind of deal. Who makes money on that kind of arrangement? Especially if the content delivery vehicle is sold at a loss...


    ... Damn. I bet Microsoft is heading this way with their subsidized Xbox. Xbox = the future Comcast box.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    The big problem right now is that I'm never buying a single first party Vita game again. It will eventually be a plus game. Hell I'm doubting even buying P4G and various catalog games.

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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    The big problem right now is that I'm never buying a single first party Vita game again. It will eventually be a plus game. Hell I'm doubting even buying P4G and various catalog games.

    I thought you hated all Persona games after 2?

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