[Industry Thread] I shall call him...Mini Wii.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    I've seen actual, physical LoTR slots games in casinos.

    It was weird.

    Dude Im in Biloxi, and when I saw the machine I immediately thought of Tolkien being pissed about it.

    Its one big, gaudy ass machine. This answers my question about his reaction.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Huh.

    01.jpg
    Microsoft is giving Xbox Live subscribers Karaoke for the holidays, a pay-per-hour service that will stream songs through the console for the purposes of singing out loudly (and probably poorly). The service takes advantage of The Karaoke Channel's library to provide over 8,000 tunes for crooners to choose from.

    Instead of having you pay for individual songs, you can put down Microsoft Points for temporary access to Karaoke's full library, in blocks of 2, 6, and 24 hours. The songs are streamed rather than downloaded, with lyrics scrolling on the screen while your avatar does his or her best Barry Manilow or Tina Turner impression (at least that's our plan). SmartGlass intergration and achievements are included, with the service expected to arrive "in time for the holidays."

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/20/karaoke-streams-sing-along-songs-on-xbox-live-pay-per-hour/

    That's the first time I've heard of a service like this on a console.

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  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Huh.

    01.jpg
    Microsoft is giving Xbox Live subscribers Karaoke for the holidays, a pay-per-hour service that will stream songs through the console for the purposes of singing out loudly (and probably poorly). The service takes advantage of The Karaoke Channel's library to provide over 8,000 tunes for crooners to choose from.

    Instead of having you pay for individual songs, you can put down Microsoft Points for temporary access to Karaoke's full library, in blocks of 2, 6, and 24 hours. The songs are streamed rather than downloaded, with lyrics scrolling on the screen while your avatar does his or her best Barry Manilow or Tina Turner impression (at least that's our plan). SmartGlass intergration and achievements are included, with the service expected to arrive "in time for the holidays."

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/20/karaoke-streams-sing-along-songs-on-xbox-live-pay-per-hour/

    That's the first time I've heard of a service like this on a console.

    Well in the US anyway.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Huh.

    01.jpg
    Microsoft is giving Xbox Live subscribers Karaoke for the holidays, a pay-per-hour service that will stream songs through the console for the purposes of singing out loudly (and probably poorly). The service takes advantage of The Karaoke Channel's library to provide over 8,000 tunes for crooners to choose from.

    Instead of having you pay for individual songs, you can put down Microsoft Points for temporary access to Karaoke's full library, in blocks of 2, 6, and 24 hours. The songs are streamed rather than downloaded, with lyrics scrolling on the screen while your avatar does his or her best Barry Manilow or Tina Turner impression (at least that's our plan). SmartGlass intergration and achievements are included, with the service expected to arrive "in time for the holidays."

    http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/20/karaoke-streams-sing-along-songs-on-xbox-live-pay-per-hour/

    That's the first time I've heard of a service like this on a console.

    That's legit. Well played, MS.

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  • AllforceAllforce Registered User regular
    That's pretty awesome, especially with the SmartGlass enabled. More things need SmartGlass or the equivalent, I've been using my phone to control YouTube on the PS3 and it's amazing.

  • skeldareskeldare Gresham, ORRegistered User regular
    Would need to see how much MS wants to charge per hour for that. Especially if there's a minimum of 2 hours.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    Would need to see how much MS wants to charge per hour for that. Especially if there's a minimum of 2 hours.

    That's a minimum of two hours of getting drunk. I don't think people are going to complain.

    ... yes I'm making an assumption about Karaoke. It's at least 85% true.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Kryhs wrote: »
    The "all consoles have issues at launch!" reply is getting tired. That assumes (and then wastes time) that people complaining about it are only after Nintendo. It's stupid and every console should be judged separate. I had issues with my 360 when I got it. It was irritating. I did not have any issues with my Wii when I got it, it was a fine launch. Doesn't make me any less happy to see Nintendo stumbling, for no reasons other than my own.

    There is something to be said about enthusiasm. There was much more of that during both the launches of the Wii and the Xbox 360.

    Could the WiiU turn out to be a perfectly respectable console? Of course! And the enthusiasm expressed for the Wii at launch didn't keep many people from feeling disappointed with it in the long run. But the fact is, the launch itself is a thing, and a generally "Eh, that came out? Interesting," kind of attitude is hardly something to celebrate. Likewise, the notion that all consoles contended with this is bullshit.

    But the day isn't over, and there's still time for that enthusiasm, I guess.

    Orca wrote: »
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Crippleware? I like that term, especially for TOR. Your character literally cannot run without paying Bioware, and my biggest complaint with the game was that movement/travel was too damn slow.

    Fuckin' falsehood alert: F2P players get Sprint and vehicles at higher levels (~10 for Sprint, 25 for first vehicle, etc.). This is exactly the way the game was when it released.

    Paid players can get them earlier (like, level 1 for Sprint).

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  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Crippleware? I like that term, especially for TOR. Your character literally cannot run without paying Bioware, and my biggest complaint with the game was that movement/travel was too damn slow.

    Fuckin' falsehood alert: F2P players get Sprint and vehicles at higher levels (~10 for Sprint, 25 for first vehicle, etc.). This is exactly the way the game was when it released.

    Paid players can get them earlier (like, level 1 for Sprint).

    That was an incorrect statement, but crippleware really is an apt descriptor of free-to-play TOR. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I finished a quest and one of the rewards was behind a pay wall. And it just gets better from there. reduced experience, increased vendor prices, cap on credits, unexpandable inventory, no bank, gear soulbinding on a timer, 2 auctions at a time, etc, etc. I think they forgot that people actually have to enjoy playing the game to want to give them money.

    Etiowsa on
  • KryhsKryhs Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Kryhs wrote: »
    The "all consoles have issues at launch!" reply is getting tired. That assumes (and then wastes time) that people complaining about it are only after Nintendo. It's stupid and every console should be judged separate. I had issues with my 360 when I got it. It was irritating. I did not have any issues with my Wii when I got it, it was a fine launch. Doesn't make me any less happy to see Nintendo stumbling, for no reasons other than my own.

    There is something to be said about enthusiasm. There was much more of that during both the launches of the Wii and the Xbox 360.

    Could the WiiU turn out to be a perfectly respectable console? Of course! And the enthusiasm expressed for the Wii at launch didn't keep many people from feeling disappointed with it in the long run. But the fact is, the launch itself is a thing, and a generally "Eh, that came out? Interesting," kind of attitude is hardly something to celebrate. Likewise, the notion that all consoles contended with this is bullshit.

    But the day isn't over, and there's still time for that enthusiasm, I guess.

    Oh absolutely. I didn't address that at all, and the lack of really any sort of "The WiiU is awesome!" is both unsurprising and satisfying.

  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    I wholly endorse "Crippleware" being a term to use in the future. I'm not sure if TOR should be the launching point for it though, because TOR is just bad F2P policy.

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  • quarthinosquarthinos Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    nvm. I wasn't being constructive.

    quarthinos on
  • BlendtecBlendtec Registered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Crippleware? I like that term, especially for TOR. Your character literally cannot run without paying Bioware, and my biggest complaint with the game was that movement/travel was too damn slow.

    Fuckin' falsehood alert: F2P players get Sprint and vehicles at higher levels (~10 for Sprint, 25 for first vehicle, etc.). This is exactly the way the game was when it released.

    Paid players can get them earlier (like, level 1 for Sprint).

    That was an incorrect statement, but crippleware really is an apt descriptor of free-to-play TOR. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I finished a quest and one of the rewards was behind a pay wall. And it just gets better from there. reduced experience, increased vendor prices, cap on credits, unexpandable inventory, no bank, gear soulbinding on a timer, 2 auctions at a time, etc, etc. I think they forgot that people actually have to enjoy playing the game to want to give them money.

    Supposedly you can only roll on up to 3 items a day too. So basically 1 instance run. Means you can't group for quests either if anything drops then you have to roll on. I played when it was $15/month and couldn't really justify it, I can't imagine going back to it in the state it currently is. How hard is it to copy what Turbine did with DDO and LotRO?

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I wish more games would copy LOTRO's F2P model.

    It's really good, I can only imagine it is profitable for them somehow, but at the same time it never really feels like you're being punished if you don't spend money.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    Blendtec wrote: »
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Crippleware? I like that term, especially for TOR. Your character literally cannot run without paying Bioware, and my biggest complaint with the game was that movement/travel was too damn slow.

    Fuckin' falsehood alert: F2P players get Sprint and vehicles at higher levels (~10 for Sprint, 25 for first vehicle, etc.). This is exactly the way the game was when it released.

    Paid players can get them earlier (like, level 1 for Sprint).

    That was an incorrect statement, but crippleware really is an apt descriptor of free-to-play TOR. I couldn't stop laughing the first time I finished a quest and one of the rewards was behind a pay wall. And it just gets better from there. reduced experience, increased vendor prices, cap on credits, unexpandable inventory, no bank, gear soulbinding on a timer, 2 auctions at a time, etc, etc. I think they forgot that people actually have to enjoy playing the game to want to give them money.

    Supposedly you can only roll on up to 3 items a day too. So basically 1 instance run. Means you can't group for quests either if anything drops then you have to roll on. I played when it was $15/month and couldn't really justify it, I can't imagine going back to it in the state it currently is. How hard is it to copy what Turbine did with DDO and LotRO?

    The more details I hear about this the more it factually becomes the most nickel & diming scheme to exist.

    And I agree; Turbine's system is a solid blueprint of what to do. Shit, you could even use City of Heroes' mess of a system and still come out on top.

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  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    All this TOR talk has me thinking on the differences between games designed to be ftp from the start and ones that change to it later, And I think it basically boils down to this:

    FtP designed games build a sold core of gameplay for free, then decide what they can add after that to add more value for a small price
    Games that change later are already all built so instead they have to decide what to take away from the free part.

    so unless they do it just right games that go FtP later on can just not feel right anymore from all the little things they had to take away unless you pay.

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  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    Kryhs wrote: »
    The "all consoles have issues at launch!" reply is getting tired. That assumes (and then wastes time) that people complaining about it are only after Nintendo. It's stupid and every console should be judged separate. I had issues with my 360 when I got it. It was irritating. I did not have any issues with my Wii when I got it, it was a fine launch. Doesn't make me any less happy to see Nintendo stumbling, for no reasons other than my own.

    That's just people being justifiably jaded by early adoption. I'm certainly guilty of it. My launch PSX, PS2 and 360 all had issues. Those were the only 3 consoles that I got at launch though. By the time I got burned on the 360 I decided I'd never early adopt a disc based console again.

    To be perfectly honest, the reason I didn't bother pre-ordering a WiiU was because I was concerned the initial run of consoles would have issues.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    EA is kind of all over the place when it comes to FTP. Sometimes their FTP feels reasonable (like Mass Effect for smartphones), other times it feels hideously oppressive (The Simpsons: Tapped Out). It's hard to tell whether TOR's FTP feels wrong because of how it was placed on there after the fact or because EA overreached.

    Of course the company might be feeling pretty bold because their financials have gotten a very hefty boost thanks to the practice.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    EA is kind of all over the place when it comes to FTP. Sometimes their FTP feels reasonable (like Mass Effect for smartphones), other times it feels hideously oppressive (The Simpsons: Tapped Out). It's hard to tell whether TOR's FTP feels wrong because of how it was placed on there after the fact or because EA overreached.

    Of course the company might be feeling pretty bold because their financials have gotten a very hefty boost thanks to the practice.

    How fucking funny is it that a game with horrible F2P policy is subtitled "Tapped Out"?

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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Foomy wrote: »
    All this TOR talk has me thinking on the differences between games designed to be ftp from the start and ones that change to it later, And I think it basically boils down to this:

    FtP designed games build a sold core of gameplay for free, then decide what they can add after that to add more value for a small price
    Games that change later are already all built so instead they have to decide what to take away from the free part.

    so unless they do it just right games that go FtP later on can just not feel right anymore from all the little things they had to take away unless you pay.

    While I think it's probably easier to design a game from the ground up as F2P rather than convert it later, LOTRO was a subscription based game before it went F2P.

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  • Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    (Except for those dang Sarah Mclaughlin animal commercials)

    Ugh, I can't stand those commercials! I'll come in from a different room to change the channel if I hear that song start.
    Cantido wrote: »
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    I've seen actual, physical LoTR slots games in casinos.

    It was weird.

    Dude Im in Biloxi, and when I saw the machine I immediately thought of Tolkien being pissed about it.

    Its one big, gaudy ass machine. This answers my question about his reaction.

    The Beau Rivage was where I saw it! It took up about half a wall.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    EA is kind of all over the place when it comes to FTP. Sometimes their FTP feels reasonable (like Mass Effect for smartphones), other times it feels hideously oppressive (The Simpsons: Tapped Out). It's hard to tell whether TOR's FTP feels wrong because of how it was placed on there after the fact or because EA overreached.

    Of course the company might be feeling pretty bold because their financials have gotten a very hefty boost thanks to the practice.

    How fucking funny is it that a game with horrible F2P policy is subtitled "Tapped Out"?

    Not to mention that the game does every damn thing the intro makes fun of:



    On another topic: this is anecdotal to the extreme of course, but someone in the Sony Smash Bros. thread said that their Best Buy only got in two copies of the game.

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  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I just started TOR as F2P and all this makes me think I'll probably uninstall it. I sort of missed when I used to play WoW and thought it would be fine to try but so far it's just been frustrating. Last logout I did I was stuck in the geometry of a pipe anyways.

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    EA is kind of all over the place when it comes to FTP. Sometimes their FTP feels reasonable (like Mass Effect for smartphones), other times it feels hideously oppressive (The Simpsons: Tapped Out). It's hard to tell whether TOR's FTP feels wrong because of how it was placed on there after the fact or because EA overreached.

    Of course the company might be feeling pretty bold because their financials have gotten a very hefty boost thanks to the practice.

    How fucking funny is it that The Simpsons is subtitled "Tapped Out"?

    Fixed that one for ya.

    Skull2185an_alt
  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    I wouldn't take that into too much consideration, not until we hear about the general conditions of stores stocking on the game. This is definitely a killer-app product so Sony is gonna go full on with it. Or, they will if they're smart.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    EA is kind of all over the place when it comes to FTP. Sometimes their FTP feels reasonable (like Mass Effect for smartphones), other times it feels hideously oppressive (The Simpsons: Tapped Out). It's hard to tell whether TOR's FTP feels wrong because of how it was placed on there after the fact or because EA overreached.

    Of course the company might be feeling pretty bold because their financials have gotten a very hefty boost thanks to the practice.

    How fucking funny is it that The Simpsons is subtitled "Tapped Out"?

    Fixed that one for ya.

    They've actually returned to hilarious this season.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    IGF 2013 is going to have a new category, "Excellence in Narrative." That is pretty cool. :^:

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  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    I just started TOR as F2P and all this makes me think I'll probably uninstall it. I sort of missed when I used to play WoW and thought it would be fine to try but so far it's just been frustrating. Last logout I did I was stuck in the geometry of a pipe anyways.

    The game is honestly better than WoW (2 year WoW subscriber talking) but the F2P is a mess. I tried to play it (F2P... I just can't justify paying $15 a month for a single video game any more) but it just didn't feel right.

  • KryhsKryhs Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I just started TOR as F2P and all this makes me think I'll probably uninstall it. I sort of missed when I used to play WoW and thought it would be fine to try but so far it's just been frustrating. Last logout I did I was stuck in the geometry of a pipe anyways.

    The game is honestly better than WoW (2 year WoW subscriber talking) but the F2P is a mess. I tried to play it (F2P... I just can't justify paying $15 a month for a single video game any more) but it just didn't feel right.

    The single player leveling (which is what it was) was amazing. Just... awesome. I've not had more fun recently than when I leveled my marauder. Everything outside of that? Absolutely not (8 year WoW subscriber). The end game was atrocious and barely there, but I gave it a chance and let my sub renew after the free month. It wasn't worth it.

    I was looking forward to the F2P version so I could pal around with some friends, but after reading about how EA is handling it I have no desire to reward that kind of terrible behavior. I had gotten the game re-downloaded and patched up last week, and instead I uninstalled it yesterday.

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Yeah, I would say rather than being better it is a different focus.

    WoW has transitioned into a state where the entire experience is the end game, and everything else is focused around getting you there ASAP. This sacrifices a lot in the leveling experience, but is better for the long term health of the game because it retains players even after they're done leveling.

    TOR is still in its formative state where the larger focus is on the leveling up to cap though. Now, if it wants to achieve any real longevity beyond people leveling through the 1-50 content to see each story, they'll probably need to shift over to a more end game focused architecture at some point, and they've been trying to since launch. They're just not there yet.

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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    But the whole thing with all the voicework and story choices wouldn't really add much to the end game which is normally pretty repetitive so why play end-game TOR instead of WoW?

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Good F2P games reward people for spending money and only uses the stick to nudge people in that direction. D&D Online and LOTRO are the best western examples of this.

    Bad F2P games make the game not fun for those not subscribing and does so in a very insulting manner. TOR and Hellgate: London are the perfect examples of this.

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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    I think my favorite TOR F2P fact is that free players are limited in how many hotbars they can have.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Kryhs wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Kryhs wrote: »
    The "all consoles have issues at launch!" reply is getting tired. That assumes (and then wastes time) that people complaining about it are only after Nintendo. It's stupid and every console should be judged separate. I had issues with my 360 when I got it. It was irritating. I did not have any issues with my Wii when I got it, it was a fine launch. Doesn't make me any less happy to see Nintendo stumbling, for no reasons other than my own.

    There is something to be said about enthusiasm. There was much more of that during both the launches of the Wii and the Xbox 360.

    Could the WiiU turn out to be a perfectly respectable console? Of course! And the enthusiasm expressed for the Wii at launch didn't keep many people from feeling disappointed with it in the long run. But the fact is, the launch itself is a thing, and a generally "Eh, that came out? Interesting," kind of attitude is hardly something to celebrate. Likewise, the notion that all consoles contended with this is bullshit.

    But the day isn't over, and there's still time for that enthusiasm, I guess.

    Oh absolutely. I didn't address that at all, and the lack of really any sort of "The WiiU is awesome!" is both unsurprising and satisfying.

    Well the Wii U is kinda awesome.

    There's a small handful of really fun games and the tablet and stuff is super cool, it's been a really enjoyable new toy to play with.

    There's some problems but you guys are talking about this thing like it's some piece of shit and this launch sucks and...no? Not really guys.

    skeldare
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Speaking of F2P games, Planetside 2 launched today and so far its F2P design is on the good side of the fence rather than the bad. We'll see how things hold up in the future.

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    The Wii U is so full of awesome that most people with it are too busy to go online to complain about it.

    Well, after it was done patching and such. Plenty of time to complain during that. That really hit something here with the off tv play and miiverse.

    Whether or not they can get this message out to a broad audience or not like they did with Wii and Wii Sports though is another issue entirely.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    But the whole thing with all the voicework and story choices wouldn't really add much to the end game which is normally pretty repetitive so why play end-game TOR instead of WoW?

    That is probably something they should have considered during development, because end game content is what keeps MMOs going.

    Even GW2 seems to be figuring out that their "there is no such thing as end game!" formula is unrealistic.

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Someone smart will eventually figure out a way to procedurally generate end game content for MMOs.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Speaking of F2P games, Planetside 2 launched today and so far its F2P design is on the good side of the fence rather than the bad. We'll see how things hold up in the future.

    I hope this is a good omen for SOE.

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