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[Industry Thread] I shall call him...Mini Wii.

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Posts

  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    Turkey wrote: »
    Turkey wrote: »
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    I think the best part is when women make female characters and base them on their own experiences, yet they get blasted for it. The extreme scrutiny is an unfortunate side effect of them being a minority in nearly all western media (books possibly being the sole exception).

    Being female does not mean you can make a non offensive female character. The thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are shared by the whole culture...not just one gender. I know I am guilty of silly male stereotypical thoughts and behaviors in my own life as a result of reacting to implied standards of behavior I have picked up from the culture at large and if I based a character on myself that included this I would get criticised for that too. Or at least I should be.

    I guess I take issue with men being the ones to determine how a woman should write.

    If you are focusing on gender instead of evaluating the argument you are committing the crime you despise.

    Argument first.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Turkey wrote: »
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    I think the best part is when women make female characters and base them on their own experiences, yet they get blasted for it. The extreme scrutiny is an unfortunate side effect of them being a minority in nearly all western media (books possibly being the sole exception).

    Being female does not mean you can make a non offensive female character. The thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are shared by the whole culture...not just one gender. I know I am guilty of silly male stereotypical thoughts and behaviors in my own life as a result of reacting to implied standards of behavior I have picked up from the culture at large and if I based a character on myself that included this I would get criticised for that too. Or at least I should be.

    Yeah, I think in general our society has gotten so sensitive about stereotypes that even when a stereotype is used as a character quirk it is deemed offensive.

    Like, I too think about myself and some of my cultural upbringing that could be deemed stereotypical. I think the problem is that stereotypes(or rather cultural/social habits) aren't a negative thing in themselves.

    It just a lot of time in the media, especially when it comes to underrepresented groups, its made out to be like every person in this group is this way or does that thing. Compiled with the fact that a lot of the times we tend to be ignorant of other peoples cultures and why they do things or have certain habits, it can be portrayed in a way that gives off a negative vibe.

  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Er.
    Stereotype's as a descriptor or as an explanation of where or why something has been acquired are neutral...

    But I would not say the specific content are neutral. They can very much be harmful. It's far too complex an issue to claim such a blanket statement. Each stereotype needs to be evaluated individually for worth.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/22/3679248/assassins-creed-3-liberation-and-ps-vita-bundle-hitting-amazon-for
    An Assassin's Creed 3 PlayStation Vita bundle is hitting Amazon.com today for $179.99, and will feature a white PS Vita, a 4GB memory card and copy of Assassin's Creed 3: Liberation for the handheld device.

    Also included in the Thanksgiving deal is download code for PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, 30-day code for PlayStation Plus and a $10 Gift Card toward Assassin's Creed 3 on Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 consoles, an Amazon representative told Polygon.
    We are seeing a decent number of Vita bundles this holiday season.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Er.
    Stereotype's as a descriptor or as an explanation of where or why something has been acquired are neutral...

    But I would not say the specific content are neutral. They can very much be harmful.

    That's why I said it would be better to say what I was talking about as cultural habits.

    I feel that stereotypes usually come from a general misunderstanding of culture.

    Basically, someone looks at something other people do without understanding it and then overblows it. Not to mention a lot of the times its protrayed as "These people do something in a way that is different from myself aren't they so silly/dumb."

    Then you have stereotypes that have nothing to do with culture at all.

    Dragkonias on
  • TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    Turkey wrote: »
    Turkey wrote: »
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    I think the best part is when women make female characters and base them on their own experiences, yet they get blasted for it. The extreme scrutiny is an unfortunate side effect of them being a minority in nearly all western media (books possibly being the sole exception).

    Being female does not mean you can make a non offensive female character. The thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are shared by the whole culture...not just one gender. I know I am guilty of silly male stereotypical thoughts and behaviors in my own life as a result of reacting to implied standards of behavior I have picked up from the culture at large and if I based a character on myself that included this I would get criticised for that too. Or at least I should be.

    I guess I take issue with men being the ones to determine how a woman should write.

    If you are focusing on gender instead of evaluating the argument you are committing the crime you despise.

    Argument first.

    Part of the value of having people of minority groups creating content is that they can share their own perspectives and experiences in their work. Maybe some of their viewpoints are negative from the majority's point of view, and they can share that. However, the group in power should not be the one to determine whether something is 'bad' or not. When discussing minority issues, the person being such does matter.

    OneAngryPossumCommodore75
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    It's a valid concern. I don't remember well, but I believe it was mythbusters where they did an episode where they tested drunk driving vs. driving while talking on the phone. As you say, the main problem with people on the phone (They would ask you questions) is that people lost concentration on the road, and in general people on the phone drove more dangerously than people that had a few drinks.

  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    How is this different giving attention to a passenger you're driving with? Actually, this seems less dangerous than conversing; no temptation to make eye contact, or hand gestures taking your hand off the wheel.

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Conversations take less thinking. You're actively trying to play a video game while driving. That sounds like a bad idea considering people can't drive already.

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    How is this different giving attention to a passenger you're driving with? Actually, this seems less dangerous than conversing; no temptation to make eye contact, or hand gestures taking your hand off the wheel.

    It's a matter of concentration. Conversing with someone while doing something else is an action that most people should be able to handle, but when there is someone else in the car you have a second set of eyes hopefully watching things. When talking on a handset, you suddenly have a hand off the wheel, and reactions are slowed. When texting or doing other tasks, your mind is taken off the task around you.

    Personally, if I have people in the car with me and traffic is getting dicey, I ask them to shut up.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
    Commodore75
  • TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Conversations take less thinking. You're actively trying to play a video game while driving. That sounds like a bad idea considering people can't drive already.

    God help us if the game is a difficult one.

    urahonky
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Er.
    Stereotype's as a descriptor or as an explanation of where or why something has been acquired are neutral...

    But I would not say the specific content are neutral. They can very much be harmful.

    That's why I said it would be better to say what I was talking about as cultural habits.

    I feel that stereotypes usually come from a general misunderstanding of culture.

    Basically, someone looks at something other people do without understanding it and then overblows it.

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199805/where-bias-begins-the-truth-about-stereotypes
    Psychologists once believed that only bigoted people used stereotypes. Now the study of unconscious bias is revealing the unsettling truth: We all use stereotypes, all the time, without knowing it. We have met the enemy of equality, and the enemy is us.

    Thought = stereotypes.

    The important point to take away is "changing the wording does not change the problem". We must change the content of our unconscious automatic thoughts via conscious evaluation. Think of it like programming yourself.

    Calling something a habit implies uncontrollability, which is false. It is very much possible to change your underlying thoughts. In their entirety. It's merely hard, which is not the same as impossible and the only appropriate answer is "well I better make a start then".
    Turkey wrote: »
    Turkey wrote: »
    Turkey wrote: »
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    I think the best part is when women make female characters and base them on their own experiences, yet they get blasted for it. The extreme scrutiny is an unfortunate side effect of them being a minority in nearly all western media (books possibly being the sole exception).

    Being female does not mean you can make a non offensive female character. The thing about cultural stereotypes is that they are shared by the whole culture...not just one gender. I know I am guilty of silly male stereotypical thoughts and behaviors in my own life as a result of reacting to implied standards of behavior I have picked up from the culture at large and if I based a character on myself that included this I would get criticised for that too. Or at least I should be.

    I guess I take issue with men being the ones to determine how a woman should write.

    If you are focusing on gender instead of evaluating the argument you are committing the crime you despise.

    Argument first.

    Part of the value of having people of minority groups creating content is that they can share their own perspectives and experiences in their work. Maybe some of their viewpoints are negative from the majority's point of view, and they can share that. However, the group in power should not be the one to determine whether something is 'bad' or not. When discussing minority issues, the person being such does matter.

    I'm not talking about control I'm talking about debate. I misunderstood what your issue was.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    It's a valid concern. I don't remember well, but I believe it was mythbusters where they did an episode where they tested drunk driving vs. driving while talking on the phone. As you say, the main problem with people on the phone (They would ask you questions) is that people lost concentration on the road, and in general people on the phone drove more dangerously than people that had a few drinks.

    Most people think they can multitask way better then they actually can, and won't actually be distracted by looking at a phone for a second, or changing the radio, putting on some makeup, etc. But studies keep showing over and over that when people are put in driving simulators, or test tracks and asked to do those secondary tasks while driving that their reaction time gets significantly less. even just a conversation can slow reactions a bit, so I would think that trying to play a game would hurt it more then that.

    people should just focus on driving while they drive, but I guess driving the same stretch of road every day makes people bored. I'd rather be bored then dead.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    It got mentioned in a RPS interview recently: that there is an important difference between feminist and anti-sexist narrative.

    Also, when did "man" became neutral?

    Exactly.

  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    Nice article with the guy who made Conker, his time at Rare, change and cancelled titles.

    Microsoft really axed a lot of good ideas it seems but sadly we knew that.

  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    In retrospect I feel like my enthusiasm is causing me to stray from the purpose of this thread so I'm going to stop now.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • TurkeyTurkey So, Usoop. TampaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2012
    @Morninglord - My bad, I sometimes make a mess of my posts and muddle what I'm trying to say. :)

    Edit -
    Foomy wrote: »
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    It's a valid concern. I don't remember well, but I believe it was mythbusters where they did an episode where they tested drunk driving vs. driving while talking on the phone. As you say, the main problem with people on the phone (They would ask you questions) is that people lost concentration on the road, and in general people on the phone drove more dangerously than people that had a few drinks.

    Most people think they can multitask way better then they actually can, and won't actually be distracted by looking at a phone for a second, or changing the radio, putting on some makeup, etc. But studies keep showing over and over that when people are put in driving simulators, or test tracks and asked to do those secondary tasks while driving that their reaction time gets significantly less. even just a conversation can slow reactions a bit, so I would think that trying to play a game would hurt it more then that.

    people should just focus on driving while they drive, but I guess driving the same stretch of road every day makes people bored. I'd rather be bored then dead.

    We have easy access to podcasts about nearly anything as well. If people are getting bored on the road, they should fill up that playlist and get a cheap FM adapter!

    Turkey on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    My dad used to chew gum to keep him awake.

    There are methods to keep yourself alert while doing a difficult task that don't involve active attention.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • ArchsorcererArchsorcerer Registered User regular
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    It got mentioned in a RPS interview recently: that there is an important difference between feminist and anti-sexist narrative.

    Also, when did "man" became neutral?

    Exactly.

    I don't mean it as a default character in a videogame (which is a problem) but WTF does "man with tits" means?

    XBL - ArchSilversmith

    "We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    How is this different giving attention to a passenger you're driving with? Actually, this seems less dangerous than conversing; no temptation to make eye contact, or hand gestures taking your hand off the wheel.

    A passenger is going to understand why you're delaying your responses or speaking with shorter responses.

    Commodore75
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Lorek wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    This female leads thing has kinda been dragging on this week, I don't even remember what the source is anymore.

    There's an article up on Gamasutra regarding these guys who have an idea for audio-only based games for iOS platforms, so that playing games while driving is safer. Being that I'm a firm believer that any distraction while driving can be a danger, this idea is still dumb.

    Also I am now aware that there are jackasses playing mobile apps while driving. I'd like to punch each of them in the face and snap their phones in two. God.

    Audio-only as in no graphics and just sound? Or Audio-Only as in voice controlled games?

    Yeah as in, voice-controlled and ear-received content. The idea is to let people keep their hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. Still, the attention needed to give to the games would be a danger, I argue. Something you listen to relatively passively like the radio or your iPod tunes isn't that bad, because you don't have to interact with it. As soon as interaction becomes a factor, concentration is taken away from the driving.

    I'm a bit of a hardass when it comes to bad drivers, admittedly. I've been one degree removed from too many situations of someone being fucking idiotic behind the wheel.

    How is this different giving attention to a passenger you're driving with? Actually, this seems less dangerous than conversing; no temptation to make eye contact, or hand gestures taking your hand off the wheel.

    A passenger is going to understand why you're delaying your responses or speaking with shorter responses.

    They also have a vested interest in keeping an eye on whats going on so they know when they should just shut up or when a topic is too attention grabbing. And if they don't the driver should tell them to stop.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
    Commodore75
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Cade wrote: »
    Nice article with the guy who made Conker, his time at Rare, change and cancelled titles.

    Microsoft really axed a lot of good ideas it seems but sadly we knew that.

    Skimming that article, you can really see how Microsoft changed the corporate culture. I don't think Nintendo operates with that much middle management, even today. .. For better or worse.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    It got mentioned in a RPS interview recently: that there is an important difference between feminist and anti-sexist narrative.

    Also, when did "man" became neutral?

    Exactly.

    I don't mean it as a default character in a videogame (which is a problem) but WTF does "man with tits" means?

    The character acts as we expect a man to act but just happens to be female. If you could swap the gender and never notice? Man with tits.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Cade wrote: »
    Nice article with the guy who made Conker, his time at Rare, change and cancelled titles.

    Microsoft really axed a lot of good ideas it seems but sadly we knew that.
    Chris Seavor: It was. It was quite a brave move I thought. I was surprised when they said yeah, okay. There are some bits in it where I look back now and I go, oh god, I don't know how we got away with that. I think Live & Reloaded was more dumbed down than the original Nintendo one, which is ironic.
    The censorship of the Xbox version was always kind of fucking hilarious.

    Also how they went from getting tired of being seen as a Nintendo metoo which result in Conker to a studio that is basically just doing Kinect games that are kind of similar in concept to Nintendo mii games.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    I can't say I ever got the appeal of Conker.

    I mean some bits were funny...others were just gross.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I think there's an unspoken issue here in that, quite frankly, I haven't seen ANY depiction of a female that has satisfied the majority of people. It's like there's no middle ground between "man with tits" and "female stereotype" and I think a lot of developers are just plainly not sure how to make a character "female" without just taking a "male" character and making it girly.

    Of course, the whole thing is pretty funny when you consider how fucking flat the characterization of most male characters is: is it any wonder they suck at female characters?

    It got mentioned in a RPS interview recently: that there is an important difference between feminist and anti-sexist narrative.

    Also, when did "man" became neutral?

    Exactly.

    I don't mean it as a default character in a videogame (which is a problem) but WTF does "man with tits" means?

    You misunderstand me. I'm agreeing with your statement of how it's bizarre that "man with tits" (a term I've seen used on multiple occasions, though perhaps not as crude) is even a thing; as if these are traits only a man has. Though if, from the context I've seen it used, it seems to indicate a female character who, other than her appearance and voice, has no traits that actually makes her female instead of a superficial pallette swap of a male character. In this case, male would be the default because videogames are already full of male characters.

    The whole thing is bullshit though, in my opinion. As I've said, it's sexist to assume only male characters can act a certain way. (Apparently women can't be stoic, one-liner spitting badasses). But beyond that, I'm really not sure how you take a character like that and make it "legitimately" female without invoking stereotypes. Like, as soon as you go "she needs to be more girly" you've completed failed at avoiding stereotypes, because by it's nature, anything you add to her that is described as "girly" is a stereotype!

    BrocksMulletArchsorcererSmrtnikSCREECH OF THE FARGCommodore75
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    That's why honestly, I think people just need to focus on writing better characters in general.

    BrocksMulletArchsorcerer
  • DarmaniDarmani Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
  • DarmaniDarmani Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    I will defend Other M's Samus even if she was a riff over the emotionally withdrawn woman, scarred by tragedy, and not the supreme player insertable badass touted up by Retro Studios

    Look back carefully de-emphasizing (as Sakamoto noted) the prime cycle. Samus was more a survivor than superwarrior, Even the first game didn't end "happily ever after." No princess rescued. No kingdomed saved. You barely made it out after killing the main boss. THIS is the only element that lends maturity to the metroid franchise above and beyond other Nintendo properties. Its a world that feels born out of victories and losses, not a fairytale eternally retold.

    I am not saying it was executed well. Of the four plot threads only one wasn't dropped in the narrative juggling act. But in Other M we have Samus reminiscing about her days as space marine, regretting her solo career or questioning it, repulsed by being used by an alien, confused by a scifi ethical dilemma, distrustful of a witness and lots of things. Its the little things that add up to a female character that feels more defined by her internal attributes than external things. I mean her monologue after finding the girl the second time. You rarely have women say that on TV unless its a womens issue, this was more a broad considerations of the implications of mad science gone awry. Most of the time people seemed pissed more that the suit vanished and reappeared now (that makes her a magical girl some sneer) that she had feelings of regret and grief and feared the monster she's fought and hunted constantly after it betrayed her trust and ate her parents in front of her only to return again able to threaten her (now she's all weak) and of course breaking metroid fan taboo #2, established in 1997 to deal with all the shitty fanfiction that made her all girly, actually giving a shit about the baby metroid (she's nothing more than a sack of maternal instincts now, ignore that choogle disgusted her and even the term The Baby invites a sense of disassociation as if she has complex feelings she's just working through that yes are in the realm of maternal relationships... for an alien monster that loved her unconditionally and sacrificed its life to save her and altered and is a part of her now that she was initially sent to blindly killed because it was naturally dangerous but especially due to war on Drug'esque order to prevent further exploitation by the Space Pirates...but she shouldn't think about that because feelings aren't badass)
    Even the career regret is about not having people in her life and after accomplishing her raison d'etre wondering what's next or the price it cost her to pursue the life she lead and what purpose it fulfilled. Ya know Bale's batman actually QUIT being batman, the original movie one threatened to like twice. Spiderman as well. But not Samus and certainly not because she seriously has no clue how to live alone forever.

    Now some MIGHT say the second half of other m also in the narrative confirms Samus's choices, validates her independence, actions, indicates she's not at fault, and isn't alone and those who have gone before still reside in her to give her strength and her actual resolve is to save others even when the rules say she shouldn't try. The larger than life hero she holds in esteeem sacrifices himself for her belieiving in her power. That she's the one to hold to that last sliver of hope and try the best to save everyone. Even if she fails she'll keep on ahead.

    I think post Mass Effedt losing some of its fad tinted luster (it was practically example 1 for the perfection of Bioware and Western gaming and hardcore gaming done right post MEII)that going back to Other M and not expecting the second coming of Femmeshep and realize its NOT a western shooter/action/rpg you can totally see where it fails but in the context of what its doing not some wildly overthetop expectations of "The Huntress" That was the legend. This was the actual woman. Not a chosen space changeling altered by sage bird space angels and granted by prophecy to dispel the sapient evil energy of the universe. but an ex-marine who went PMC for a self-righteous quest, achieved it, and now reflecting on the consequences of her actions in a universe built to attack and direct her, not set op to make her look awesome.

    I still believe M:OM will be the equivalent of Zelda's Windwaker, vindicated by history. Or at least Uncharted 1

    Darmani on
  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Granted, women have just as broad tastes in which characters appeal to them as men do. Take MMORPGs for example. The female player base is quite divided between women who want their characters to be dressed modestly/appropriately for combat and those who enjoy wearing skimpy clothing. As long as you make a female character who has half a brain and a reason to exist beyond pure male titillation (or totally uninteresting love interest), she'll likely appeal to at least some women. Of course, the half a brain and reason to exist issue seems to be a problem for a lot of game development teams, and can also be an issue if the developers listen to the troglodyte crowd (an exceedingly loud but small group) that objects to any female character who is even remotely empowered or who doesn't meet their own personal standard of perfect beauty.

    What we need is stronger characterization and better characters in general. My husband hates most of the stoic military-type male characters that are supposed to appeal to him, too. Along with asking for more and better female characters, we should be asking for more diverse and interesting male characters. More game companies need to start hiring actual writers to create characters, and we could use more games that aren't straight-up male power fantasies. They have their place, but we could use less of them.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
    BrocksMulletTurkeyLockedOnTarget
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    My dad used to chew gum to keep him awake.

    There are methods to keep yourself alert while doing a difficult task that don't involve active attention.

    I use conservative talk radio... something that can make me laugh/get mad. Gaming in the car? That's a terrifying thought.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    Question about the wiiU talk, sorry if it's been asked or answered, didn't see it. So supposedly someone is complaining that the CPU is slow. Then they go into clock speeds. Is this a case like with the new pc CPU's where clock speed isn't always an indicator of performance, especially comparing say a 2.3 ghz processor from today to a 3.5 GHz from 6 years ago?

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Tommatt wrote: »
    Question about the wiiU talk, sorry if it's been asked or answered, didn't see it. So supposedly someone is complaining that the CPU is slow. Then they go into clock speeds. Is this a case like with the new pc CPU's where clock speed isn't always an indicator of performance, especially comparing say a 2.3 ghz processor from today to a 3.5 GHz from 6 years ago?

    It's definitely more efficient per cycle then the powerpc on say a 360, but it also seems to either have less cores, or be significantly slower clock speed. so the overall power of the chip is less. the WiiU has a better gpu and more ram, but a slower cpu. So it should be able to put out really nice visuals, but things like physics or lots of npcs on the screen at once will cause problems. It will just takes time for devs to figure out how to best use the WiiU's resources, and makes porting from other platforms harder.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Foomy wrote: »
    Tommatt wrote: »
    Question about the wiiU talk, sorry if it's been asked or answered, didn't see it. So supposedly someone is complaining that the CPU is slow. Then they go into clock speeds. Is this a case like with the new pc CPU's where clock speed isn't always an indicator of performance, especially comparing say a 2.3 ghz processor from today to a 3.5 GHz from 6 years ago?

    It's definitely more efficient per cycle then the powerpc on say a 360, but it also seems to either have less cores, or be significantly slower clock speed. so the overall power of the chip is less. the WiiU has a better gpu and more ram, but a slower cpu. So it should be able to put out really nice visuals, but things like physics or lots of npcs on the screen at once will cause problems. It will just takes time for devs to figure out how to best use the WiiU's resources, and makes porting from other platforms harder.

    Honestly, consider how the visual quality of games progresses over the life of consoles. Right now, at launch, Assassin's Creed 3 on the Wii U looks as good (and may run smoother, hard to tell) as the 360 version 7 years after the system launched. If I had to guess, I'd say the Wii U will continue to get prettier, but we'll see I suppose.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Athenor wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Nice article with the guy who made Conker, his time at Rare, change and cancelled titles.

    Microsoft really axed a lot of good ideas it seems but sadly we knew that.

    Skimming that article, you can really see how Microsoft changed the corporate culture. I don't think Nintendo operates with that much middle management, even today. .. For better or worse.

    I know it's the stereotype to cluck and sigh about how much Microsoft has fucked with Rare, but the company really did kill loads and loads of great ideas in favor of Kinect n' avatars, and ran off pretty much all of the long-timers.

    Glad to see Seavor is doing OK.

    Edit: Huh, Conker N64 apparently sold a million. That's more than I would have guessed for a raunch-fest released at the end of the largely family-oriented system's life.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    Cade wrote: »
    Nice article with the guy who made Conker, his time at Rare, change and cancelled titles.

    Microsoft really axed a lot of good ideas it seems but sadly we knew that.

    Skimming that article, you can really see how Microsoft changed the corporate culture. I don't think Nintendo operates with that much middle management, even today. .. For better or worse.

    I know it's the stereotype to cluck and sigh about how much Microsoft has fucked with Rare, but the company really did kill loads and loads of great ideas in favor of Kinect n' avatars, and ran off pretty much all of the long-timers.

    Glad to see Seavor is doing OK.

    Being a long time follower of Rare, it's not a stereotype if it's the truth. Nintendo and the Stampers had a bit of a falling out over money and the development process, but whatever Rare's development styles were like in the Nintendo age, it was NOTHING like what Microsoft was used to.

    I mean, hell.. What kind of company fires one of their most critically acclaimed game developers because he happened to be working as an artist at the time on the official ledgers?

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Aw crap, we actually could have gotten Conker 2.
    ... And somehow we ended up doing Live & Reloaded. I'm still not sure how that happened. I'm still not sure that we shouldn't have done Conker 2. In fact I'm certain we should have done.

    Why do you feel that way?

    Chris Seavor: I started designing it and we were going to do it. They just wanted it quickly. It was coming to the end of the life cycle of the Xbox, and there was talk of them going, look, can we just shift this over to the 360, which was a year away? I was really against that because I just couldn't face spending another two years on a game we'd already spent a year and a half on. So I guess it was probably my fault.

    Now, I would have gone, absolutely. Let's take a step back and make the graphics look as good as we can. It would have done all right I think. From the amount of messages I get every day saying please make Conker 2 I'd say it would have been a better move, but hey. There you go.

    What kind of game would it have been?

    Chris Seavor: It would have been a straight sequel. It would have been the day after or the week after. I designed quite a lot of it. The story is all done. That was all nailed.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    It's that GPGPU architecture making devs salty.

    They'll all suddenly love it though once the other consoles hit!

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Zephiran wrote: »
    It's that GPGPU architecture making devs salty.

    They'll all suddenly love it though once the other consoles hit!

    Nintendo's been using the exact same core rendering engine pipeline since the N64. The new version supports programmable shaders and other things that the Unreal Engine needs, but it's still the same core piece, bumped up in power.

    It's not like people didn't see this coming.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Edit: Huh, Conker N64 apparently sold a million. That's more than I would have guessed for a raunch-fest released at the end of the largely family-oriented system's life.

    I actually think the late in life and family orientated thing helped each other out. Bunch of kids who got the N64 when they were young were in the older rebellious/whatever stage to find Conker perfectly appealing to them. It probably helped that it didn't really look like a raunch-fest to a disinterested parental glance.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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