Man why does everyone keep going on about the "ultimate demon technique." What a dumb name...I mean, they're demons. It'd be like if we had the "ultimate human technique." People name their stuff after things unlike themselves, we got monkey style and tiger style and stuff like that. Someone's probably even got a demon technique. It doesn't sound cool when you're just talking about yourself.
I recall once seeing an anime OAV or movie from the late 80s or early 90s that had a quiet Japanese town where all the inhabitants were former teenage or young adult heroes/magical girls who had settled down and when the bad guys from another dimension overwhelmed the main characters and started rampaging through the town the middle aged residents started shouting things like the above while throwing spears made of noodles, precision guided shoes, and the like as the counterattack.
This kind of diction is frequently used to poke fun of action tropes and given the series I'm inclined to think Disgaea is probably having fun with it instead of just playing it seriously.
In other news, I had my first game over last night. In retrospect shooting the neutral npc even when she was going berserk and attacking me was not the right choice to make.
I kind of want to make a push to using monsters this time around, since I always neglected them. Now that I just unlocked her I am reminded that I made a novel attempt with Desco in D4, but never made any serious attempts at maximizing magic-change or anything fancy like that.
For newbies: I've been looking at guide after guide both on gamefaqs and youtube, and I think the main problem with 90% of these guides is they make many assumptions that you understand why you should do things like they suggest. So I thought I would explain a few things in basic terms and definitions that might help you understand why you want to listen to them.
SUPER Innocence Farming:
This assumes you have the farm unlocked, which occurs when you unlock innocent hunter squad(requirement for this is to subdue 10 innocents. just do item world with a bunch of junk innocents (NOT your good ones) until it unlocks) and reached chapter 9 for the innocent aid squadron to unlock.
The State of an innocent can be one of these:
(Frownie Face :bigfrown: ) (black letter indicates number) - Means its unsubdued and the number allowed in this 'stack' of innocence is not maxed.
(Frownie Face with a Star :bigfrown: ) (yellow number indicates number) - Means its unsubdued but the stack is 'full'
(Smiley Face ) (black letter indicates number) - Subdued, but stack is not full - Subdued and not full
(Smiley Face ) Yellow number indicates number - Subdued and stack is full. - Subdued and full
Now, in managing innocence you can put as many stacks of subdued innocence together in an item and 'merge' them (The + button) into one stack. However you don't want to do this without some consideration.
unsubdued innocence cannot be merged.
Lets say you have two subdued, and maxed stacks of 30 Statistician innocents. We want more of these, So we have two choices. First, if you don't have any other unsubdued innocents you have to take this route, and put both stacks into the farm until they breed. They should produce a few innocents of the same kind. (Don't fill up the farm with other innocent types..just put in the statisticians). Now you have the original two maxed stacks of 30 innocents, and 1 stack of about 2 unsubdued statistician innocents. Otherwise look through your inventory and pull all the Statisticians off the items and into the warehouse.
Now, pick a low level item...a thimble will do just fine since its cheap and the monsters will be very low level. Do NOT attach your statisticians to the thimble yet. Go into item world for the thimble and get to level 10, the innocent town. Talk to the top NPC, and have him switch his route for this item to innocent enhancements, then exit the item. You don't want to subdue innocents in an item that has not yet been switched to the innocent enhancement route. It will mean a difference between a stack of one unsubdued innocents becoming a stack of 1 subdued innocent vs one unsubdued becoming 40 subdued innocents.
I'm going to deviate a moment and talk about squad grinding then come back to innocents:
SUPER SQUAD Grinding:
Now some preparation. Take your highest level character and put it in the capture squad. hopefully you have some prisoners to spend...if not you can just grind some using the capture squad. Level 3-4 is a small level that has only 3 enemies in it, right near your entry point. use your highest level character to capture these three units. repeat until you have a few dozen prisoners.
Return to your base, go to the squad NPC, move the cursor down to the interrogation squad, press the button to go into the details and turn in units here until you unlock the 'interogate all prisoners at once' option, then go into the capture squad and drop prisoners into it until you get level 3, that lets you capture at a range of 3.
go back into level 3-4. now your highest level character can use Capture skill level 2, which will make this level go much faster...you just walk up to the middle one and use skill 2, and it gets all three of them.
You want to do this a few times and put some more points into interrogation squad so you can interrogate every prisoner in one cycle of 5 'special' attacks. Prisoners who have been interrogated completely will give you more 3 times more points when you add them to a squad to buff its skills.
Now, you want to use the cheat shop to raise the star level to a point that your highest level character can still capture those three creatures every time on the first attempt using capture 2. Repeat this a bunch of times and max out the innocent HUNTER squad. Then level the Innocent AID squad ONLY to level 7. Do not get that 'innocents are born subued' rank.
This isnt that hard. I got to the desired levels in less than an hours worth of grinding 3-4 with the monster levels no higher than 7 or 8 stars in the cheat shop (level 45-50). (Don't forget to lower the stars before you continue your story mode).
Okay, back to SUPER innocents.
So back to our single stacks of 1 or 2 innocents each. go through all your items in your inventory to see if you have any statisticians you missed, pull them off the items, pick your thimble and put all the stacks of unsubdued statisticians that will fit on your thimble together. Make sure you have filled up the innocent aid and hunter squads with people so you get the max bonus, and that the hunter squad is filled with people that have good movement and decent level/stats. you would have picked up the 'deathblow innocents' skill along the way so really you just need someone that can one turn his way across the level to an innocent and smack him. Go into item world of your thimble again. subdue innocents as you go down another 10 levels...you should get most or all of the stacks along the way, and when you come out again, those stacks of 1-2 will now be stacks of 25-45, most of them will be unmaxed.
Now, go back to the farm. Take your highest maxed subdued stack of Statisticians and put them in the farm ONLY with one of your stacks of subdued innocents you just got that is NOT maxed. merge them. Now you have a much larger stack that is NOT maxed, and is in fact, 'powered up' to have a larger maximum stack. remove this one, and repeat with your next highest maxed subdued stack, merge it with a subdued unmaxed stack...repeat this until you have several roughly equal stacks of unmaxed subdued innocents. These should go into the farm together to produce more unsubdued (but higher starting amounts) of the same kind of innocents. eventually the stacks in the farm will max out by themselves...take the unsubdued innocents put them on the same innocent route thimble and go through another 10 levels, subduing them along the way.
At this point, you repeat the process of turning large subdued max stacks into larger subdued UNMAXED stacks until they hit the limit (900 a stack for Statisticians).
After this, you probably want to do the same process with Broker and Mentor type innocents as these tend to be the most valuable ones to have maxed on your characters, especially when you are power grinding.
EDIT: I said Mentor, but I meant Manager. Statisticians give bonus XP, Managers give bonus Mana, Brokers give bonus HL.
SUPER Early Game information:
The first thing you want to do when you start this game is assign a subclass to every character you have available to you.
These are the classes you want to rank up to first:
Warrior or Valkyrie - 3 stars
Mage - to 3 stars
Healer - 3 stars
Maid - 3 stars
Martial Artist - 3 stars
When you have hit the recommended star level on your subclass on the characters you are using the most, switch to one you have not covered yet. You don't need every character you use to have all of them (yet!) but you want at least one to hit these numbers.
After you hit all threes in those, you can turn in the quests at the shop, and unlock more classes, your next goal is this:
Archer 2 star
Magic knight 4 star
armor knight 2 star
Thief 2 star
Gunner 2 star
Gunner and Maid 2 star get you Professor: Get Professor to Rank 2. This unlocks sage.
Get all these and you now have access to every class in the game except one that isnt available until post game.
Now you want to pick whatever subclass you desire...max it and move on with every character. The purpose of this is that each subclass you max, gives you a bonus to your ability growth when you reincarnate, and the bonus gets bigger with each star level.
SUPER Early Character leveling (level 1-100).
if you hit a point that you feel your characters are underleveled, go to the item shop, and buy 100 - 200 unopened sodas. Set the cheat shop to max XP growth, go into level 2-1. take your most used 8-9 characters, move then to the left of the starting point, surrounding the yellow geopanel. the monsters should not move when you end a turn. Every turn, have your all your characters drink a soda, then end the turn. repeat this until you are out of unopened soda, and opened soda. your characters will gain a level every few drinks depending on your cheat shop bonus. There are other ways to improve the xp gain from the sodas, but its still not worth doing higher than level 100 or so.
SUPER Next grinding of levels point. 120+
Level 4-2, with the cheat shop raising the star level to 16. This will produce level 99 monsters. It's a long standing thing in the Disgaea series that level 99 monsters are worth the same amount of experience as level 300 monsters. So killing them (Fire spells work best since they are mushrooms), gives you plenty of xp to boost your levels just killing them normally. You can speed this up by using tower grinding since the xp is given to all the characters on the tower, not just one. Look up how to tower grind on youtube.
One thing to bear in mind is that the gendered classes have different evilities. For example, Clerics get an evility that makes their bow attacks be based on RES instead of ATK, while Clergy get an evility that makes their staff attacks be based on RES. Clergy also get an evility that triples the experience they get from healing, which is pretty incredible early on.
Once you have the capture farm running with 20 stars (monsters are about level 105 in 3-4), you can instead of dumping them into squads, turn them into essences. This is all normal game, not post game...there are maps available where you can use the higher rank capture to capture 9 at a time, which is obviously better but it does not really unlock until you are in the post game and have access to money maps or higher martial training levels.
Do NOT use these essences in the pocket netherworld. Instead, level your maid until she has the skill that lets you use one item on a group of 5 people...Use the Dark Assembly to merge all these shards of power, and have her use the merged items in a battlefield on the 5 characters you want to buff with the stats. Remember, when you reincarnate while you retain a certain amount of stats from the previous life, you do lose a lot so this is more a thing you want to do over a long period of time...go capture when you want time to pass quickly (like waiting for innocents to breed), do 10 runs of 3-4 at 20 stars, check on innocents, repeat...just remember you can only hold like 128 prisoners before it maxes out, so periodically go interrogate them, then turn them into stat items. the merging of these items is just to make your inventory easier to manage and to make applying them later quicker since you will have hundreds of them.
The Dark Assembly:
Mana, unless you are specifically farming it, tends to grow very disproportionally. You don't want to waste it. Go back and capture farm enough prisoners at as high level as possible and max out the Dark Assembly squad...make sure you have enough characters to fill it completely. When its completely maxed you generally will never fail a bill. This will come in super handly post game as well, so its worth doing early.
The Cheat Shop and farming in general:
The Key here is to SPECIALIZE. If you are going to XP grind, Do everything to buff that. Put 900 Statisticians on the character that will be doing the most damage, put him in the Squad XP boot camp so that 10 other characters will also be leveled up pretty well. Set the Cheat shop to 0% everything else, put it all into XP, pass the 3x XP on the next map so the leader of the boot camp squad is getting craploads of XP and its passing also to its members. Mana grinding? Same thing except replace the word XP with Mana, and Statisticians with Managers.
Just Don't forget to set the cheat shop back to normal before you continue normal gaming.
Equipment:
Okay, now your inventory is going to get huge. All this crap you pick up from bonus items, random items you find in chests, stuff you get back from doing netherworld research...it piles up. While the game has a very handy 'sort' button that may seem very tempting to press, Hold off on that for a minute. The inventory system is a bit smarter then its given credit for. Lets say the last time you went through your inventory looking for specific innocents was 3 days ago. lots of new stuff has been added to the inventory tab = all....but its all at the bottom of the list. That means, you dont have to go through every item, just the new stuff. Start at the bottom then work your way upward until you are caught up...THEN you can hit the sort button....this way its easy to tell where the new items start piling up again...once you sort it, they get mixed in with the item type, and the new items start pilling up at the bottom again for later review.
Don't feel like you need to get the latest weapon available from the shop, as soon as it comes out. Just start watching yourself in battlefields...is your main starting to take more damage then normal? is he taking more turns to kill something? maybe its time to do an upgrade cycle. and it doesnt have to be the most expensive...if you check the difference of 3 million HL cost items may only be 20-40 atk and soon enough those top level items will probably start dropping from chests anyway.
So looking into what Azith posted, I was interested in what was going on with items. Apparently using an item gives 1/8th of xp needed until next level.
Putting cheat shop to 200% XP, passing the 3X XP bill, and sitting on the 50% bonus xp panel in 2-1 will make you level up every single time you use an item.
So looking into what Azith posted, I was interested in what was going on with items. Apparently using an item gives 1/8th of xp needed until next level.
Putting cheat shop to 200% XP, passing the 3X XP bill, and sitting on the 50% bonus xp panel in 2-1 will make you level up every single time you use an item.
Huh. Didn't know that, but interesting for early game.
Something missing in the grinding above is that magichange is a freebie effective doubling of all exp and mana gained (tower/team attacks split exp/mana), so you should basically always be doing it while grinding. Only thing to be aware of is that it overwrites the weapon(s), so leave your statisticians/managers in your armor.
And since eventually, you can dual wield magichange, and GIANT dual wield magichange, you can quintuple your grinding efficiency, at least in regards to monsters.
So temporarily reincarnate generics into monsters while you're grinding, while also using a few premiere permanent monsters (Usalia, Desco, Metalia, and Priere are highly recommended because they're all great units) who you can let get massively overleveled so that their personal 'equipment' stats when magichanged can let even level 1 dudes kill things to slingshot them back to to the correct level.
I'm still not postgame yet, and its not really needed for me to go over that, since most guides assume exclusively you are already in it and overleveled. I've never really pushed the post game in disgaea much before, but this time its so damn convienent on the switch that im bringing it to work to grind out some prisoners or do a subduing run of innocents during my lunch. I'm just over 900 Statisticians but don't want to empty the farm yet...its faster to breed new ones with two high stacks So I'll try and hold out till i have 3 stacks of 900 each so i can put one of them on my main, and keep the other two as brood mothers, then move over to managers or brokers While i start playing with xp Leveling.
So looking into what Azith posted, I was interested in what was going on with items. Apparently using an item gives 1/8th of xp needed until next level.
Putting cheat shop to 200% XP, passing the 3X XP bill, and sitting on the 50% bonus xp panel in 2-1 will make you level up every single time you use an item.
Huh. Didn't know that, but interesting for early game.
Use Unopened Sodas, which turn into Opened Sodas after using once, get to use 2 items per 1 item bought. Also maids get to use multiple items per turn so they are easier to level this way. This was how the PS4 demo was cracked wide open and people got to crazy high levels and such.
1) make sure there is no invul panels or no color change panels. This basically negates doing a full geopanel clear and you can just skip trying to blow everything up.
You can throw an enemy at an invulnerability geopanel to kill the panel. There is no "no color change" in Disgaea 5.
The trick is to use the wrestler overlord, give him the evility that increases his throwing range, use the character world to boost his throwing range even further, and then use him to deploy your entire team wherever on the map you want.
man this game went downhill sharply once they decided to make every map a bunch of small connected platforms
That is my single most loved change after playing the first game (only other one I've played). Maps were way too big and random floating platforms in the middle of nowhere that screwed me out of getting full clears or geo combos suuuuucked. Small maps rule for descending the item world quickly.
For newbies: I've been looking at guide after guide both on gamefaqs and youtube, and I think the main problem with 90% of these guides is they make many assumptions that you understand why you should do things like they suggest. So I thought I would explain a few things in basic terms and definitions that might help you understand why you want to listen to them.
SUPER Innocence Farming:
This assumes you have the farm unlocked, which occurs when you unlock innocent hunter squad(requirement for this is to subdue 10 innocents. just do item world with a bunch of junk innocents (NOT your good ones) until it unlocks) and reached chapter 9 for the innocent aid squadron to unlock.
How does this work? If innocents are on an item when it levels up something happens? Why not use the good ones here?
For newbies: I've been looking at guide after guide both on gamefaqs and youtube, and I think the main problem with 90% of these guides is they make many assumptions that you understand why you should do things like they suggest. So I thought I would explain a few things in basic terms and definitions that might help you understand why you want to listen to them.
SUPER Innocence Farming:
This assumes you have the farm unlocked, which occurs when you unlock innocent hunter squad(requirement for this is to subdue 10 innocents. just do item world with a bunch of junk innocents (NOT your good ones) until it unlocks) and reached chapter 9 for the innocent aid squadron to unlock.
How does this work? If innocents are on an item when it levels up something happens? Why not use the good ones here?
I think the theory is because if you subdue innoncents with the hunter squad once you've leveled it, they get a big multiplier. While true, the numbers on the innocents is really low for the early part of the game, so I'd argue it's pretty minor.
For newbies: I've been looking at guide after guide both on gamefaqs and youtube, and I think the main problem with 90% of these guides is they make many assumptions that you understand why you should do things like they suggest. So I thought I would explain a few things in basic terms and definitions that might help you understand why you want to listen to them.
SUPER Innocence Farming:
This assumes you have the farm unlocked, which occurs when you unlock innocent hunter squad(requirement for this is to subdue 10 innocents. just do item world with a bunch of junk innocents (NOT your good ones) until it unlocks) and reached chapter 9 for the innocent aid squadron to unlock.
How does this work? If innocents are on an item when it levels up something happens? Why not use the good ones here?
Its not just the hunter squad.
You don't want to waste your good and rare unsubdued innocents on the first 10 levels of an item because setting the item to 'innocent enhancement route' gives an ADDITIONAL bonus to the hunter and aid squads when you subdue an innocent.
subduing a single stack of 1 innocent without a route set yields 1 subdued innocent.
Subduing a single stack of 1 innocent with the route set to innocent enhancement + max hunter squad (doing the subduing) + level 7 aid squad = 30 subdued innocents. its literally a return of like x30 what the size of the stack is.
Later when you have two stacks of 500 subdued innocents in the farm, they breed a stack of 30-60 innocents, so taking those going through the above = much faster innocent production.
Between repeated reincarnations and item worlding, my throwaway research team is now roughly twenty levels ahead of the team that I actually use in combat.
The Cheat shop options give no bonus for subclass farming correct? Special skill xp, weapon xp and normal xp are not what contributes to star level? if not, then what does to speed up star farming?
Next, what does a reincarnation cycle look like? I'd like to do it, but i get this feeling if i do it now, its not the best time. Should i be saving all my magic extracts to use after i reincarnate or before? arent i going to lose most of those stats from reincarnation?
From what I've read it seems destroying items provides the most class xp. Thieves can create boxes based on their level, so you can get a high level thief to make them for you and then tower attack it as a way to grind.
You also get more class xp from mass slaughtering lower level enemies than if you combined them all into one higher level enemy, even though that combined enemy provides more XP/HEL/MANA than the individual small frys. This means item world dives slaughtering everything and breaking items are worthwhile as far as entertaining methods of grinding classes go.
Drinking tons of soda also provides xp. Casting espoir, heal, and support spells, as well as debuffs can be a way to grind those spells and class rank as well.
This is looks like it's for post-game grinding:
There are several ways to master all classes with characters to gain that
vaunted 10,000,000 base stat boost.
-Magichange onto a strong sage, and let the sage clear out Carnage Dimension,
Double Fake with Land Decimator, on a setting as strong as you can manage.
Even without +Job Mastery Evilities, you can get this down to a single clear
mastering any class. Generics can turn into a monster, do this as needed,
then reincarnate into whatever your desired class is.
-Run Martial Training 4 in Carnage Dimension. At one star's difficulty, you
can master most classes in as few as two runs, Job Mastery Evilities
permitting. Anyone can learn 3x3 attacks, either by using a Fire/Star
Scroll and levelling up the range at the Skill Shop, or by giving them a bow
and using the Fire Dragon Gods skill. Simply give the desired character your
strongest gear and let 'em roll the baddies over.
-Use Geo Blast to pop high level geo symbols in 20 star Carnage Dimension
Item Worlds. A single use of this skill should master a class, but will tap
out your Mr. Gency supply, unless you're strong enough to clear the enemies
in the Item World you're doing this in.
The geo blast method is the fastest of those ways exponentially, and since you can get them from the post-game alchemy stuff, you're not in any actual danger of running out.
That's also a place where you should be using magichange x4. Two characters with geo blast, each with four more characters magichanged onto them, and wham. That's 10+ characters you're mastering per stage, with the caveat that it only gets you 98% of the way mastered for the 'high level' classes like sages or dragon kings. You spend easily 4-5 as much time just changing the subclass for all of them than you do actually mastering them. Which is also why human uniques are kind of a pain in the postgame. Generics you can temporarily reincarnate to whatever monster.
I'm doing that last one right now. It's ridiculously fast. I don't know what they mean about tapping out your Mr. Gency supply though...you can make them through alchemy and with a maxed out alchemy squad I get one Gency for every turn spent in combat. I get them as fast as I use them.
But yeah basically:
- unlock carnage dimension
- with fully maxed out alchemy, create a carnage eclair
- with fully maxed out skill squad, put a pirate with geo blast as the leader and add the others you want to level
- enter the carnage eclair hoping for geo symbols
- geo blast all of them with different characters
- Mr. Gency out, change classes if mastered and dive back in
I don't know if it's worth trying to grind class XP before this point in the game, it's just so slow otherwise.
- with fully maxed out alchemy, create a carnage eclair
You can skip this step by using the Enryngi evility that spits out mushroom soup while in a carnage map.
I found it way easier to use alchemy, since you can do it the moment you unlock the carnage dimension. I had maxed alchemy already, and did not have any investment in any mushroom guys, especially the level required to be able to tank hits in the carnage dimension.
I think that method is more for getting a Carnage Arcadia and eventually Trapezohedron.
Just started playing 4 tonight as my first Disgaea game. So far I'm extremely charmed even though I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Was doing pretty good too until the fight with Emizel at the end of chapter 1. Literally the first thing he did was oneshot Valvatorez with a fire spell. I beat the mission eventually, but only after all of my units except for 3 died.
Also I made a thief and gave her a gun! I think she hit one person with it! And it did like 3 damage! I don't know what I'm doing!
Just started playing 4 tonight as my first Disgaea game. So far I'm extremely charmed even though I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Was doing pretty good too until the fight with Emizel at the end of chapter 1. Literally the first thing he did was oneshot Valvatorez with a fire spell. I beat the mission eventually, but only after all of my units except for 3 died.
Also I made a thief and gave her a gun! I think she hit one person with it! And it did like 3 damage! I don't know what I'm doing!
For what it's worth, I'd put 4 just behind the first in terms of story and characters. 5 is a bit weaker in the intraparty antics and a few of the story beats get repetitive. Less backstory to anyone but Killia too it feels like.
I'll be honest, thieves are not nearly as easy to set up as just giving a fighter an axe and telling them to go nuts (or a mage, and the spell effects get amazingly over the top by endgame)
I'll be honest, thieves are not nearly as easy to set up as just giving a fighter an axe and telling them to go nuts (or a mage, and the spell effects get amazingly over the top by endgame)
Sounds like a plan to me.
Oh yeah, and my thief can't even steal. I think I got a steal skill from completing a mission? It's in my inventory and I don't know what to do with it to make it usable.
Just started playing 4 tonight as my first Disgaea game. So far I'm extremely charmed even though I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.
Was doing pretty good too until the fight with Emizel at the end of chapter 1. Literally the first thing he did was oneshot Valvatorez with a fire spell. I beat the mission eventually, but only after all of my units except for 3 died.
Also I made a thief and gave her a gun! I think she hit one person with it! And it did like 3 damage! I don't know what I'm doing!
For what it's worth, I'd put 4 just behind the first in terms of story and characters. 5 is a bit weaker in the intraparty antics and a few of the story beats get repetitive. Less backstory to anyone but Killia too it feels like.
I'll be honest, thieves are not nearly as easy to set up as just giving a fighter an axe and telling them to go nuts (or a mage, and the spell effects get amazingly over the top by endgame)
I think 4 has the best overall story and characters, but it definitely flags pretty badly at the end while 1 and 2's weak parts are the aimless rambling middles with much stronger endings. Just cut out all that awful shit with Flonne, and redo pretty much the entire last chapter. So fucking awful. I don't know what made them so enamored of the ridiculous escalations at the end of the game. Probably thought they were being funny. They were not.
I'll be honest, thieves are not nearly as easy to set up as just giving a fighter an axe and telling them to go nuts (or a mage, and the spell effects get amazingly over the top by endgame)
Sounds like a plan to me.
Oh yeah, and my thief can't even steal. I think I got a steal skill from completing a mission? It's in my inventory and I don't know what to do with it to make it usable.
Stealing is done using Hand items, generally, though apparently Thieves eventually get a skill to steal without needing a Hand.
I played quite a bit this weekend, and thought i would sum up the pre-post-game leveling path, having reached level 9999 (with one character at least, most of the rest around 5-6000).
I have not yet Reincarnated any characters. But having finally unlocked the carnage dimension storyline quest (and getting my ass KICKED by it), thats next on my list.
Relevent points:
-You do not need more than 1 stack of 900 statisticians. it doesnt hurt to have more, but a character equipping statisticians while just a unit, not a leader of the xp boot camp squad will not gain extra xp.
-You do not really NEED manager innocents if you can get the two evility bonuses from char world on your farming character. I'm not sure if i just got lucky with both of these showing up one right after the other, or if its normal).
Level 1-100. Unopened soda trick in 2-1 when i felt i needed a boost above the storyline fights. The only DLC character im using is Metallia, and shes *SO* OP, especially once she unlocks the 'World is Metallia's' ability. (Shes my 9999).your goal is to get to the point where Metallia + a professors int buff + a sages double attack buff can kill everything in her skills radius on 4-2 with 16 stars.
Levels 100-1000 Once you can do this, put metallia into the boot training as leader (and all the characters you want to level as units) with as big a stack of Statisticians you can make in her equipment (you have been buffing your subdued innocents right? having 900 stats makes this very quick). after 2-3 clears of 4-2 Metallia will be several hundred levels up, and all the other characters only a bit behind and she can do it herself without the professor or sage. You can continue this to decent effect past level 1000 but its quicker to shift your target.
Level 1000+ Run Metallia through the char world a few times, and always check what evilities are offered as the bonus.. what you want are the +100% and +200% mana gained evilities (This saves you from having to farm manager innocents). put both of them on her, then switch the cheat shop to full mana (and put her into the channeling squad to spread around the wealth), and farm enough mana to unlock Martial training 1,2,and 3. switch back to XP in the shop/squad and farm martial training 3, again, you may need to buff metallia with your sage/professor to make this a one shot kill on the whole group, but it will only take a few kills to get her buffed to the point she can do it on her own.
When you get metallia to level 3-4000, you now have a character that can force its way through any dark assembly bill you want to pass. farm mana to unlock martial training 4 and 5. Martial training 5 at 20 stars in the shop will be your farming point back in the xp squad/shop maxed out. You can get to 9999 from here. the other characters in your squad may fall behind a bit, metallia at 9999 and the squad at about level 5k.
Finish the game story, start doing any bills in the assembly that unlock new levels, do the challenge quests, unlock asagi....eventually get the carnage dimension storyline to unlock.
If someone wants to write a good guide to reincarnation, That would be great.
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Not Japanese, but actually rooted in a lot of the same tropes as Disgaea 5, special techniques to be mastered and all...
SUPER Innocence Farming:
This assumes you have the farm unlocked, which occurs when you unlock innocent hunter squad(requirement for this is to subdue 10 innocents. just do item world with a bunch of junk innocents (NOT your good ones) until it unlocks) and reached chapter 9 for the innocent aid squadron to unlock.
The State of an innocent can be one of these:
(Frownie Face :bigfrown: ) (black letter indicates number) - Means its unsubdued and the number allowed in this 'stack' of innocence is not maxed.
(Frownie Face with a Star :bigfrown:
(Smiley Face
(Smiley Face
Now, in managing innocence you can put as many stacks of subdued innocence together in an item and 'merge' them (The + button) into one stack. However you don't want to do this without some consideration.
unsubdued innocence cannot be merged.
Lets say you have two subdued, and maxed stacks of 30 Statistician innocents. We want more of these, So we have two choices. First, if you don't have any other unsubdued innocents you have to take this route, and put both stacks into the farm until they breed. They should produce a few innocents of the same kind. (Don't fill up the farm with other innocent types..just put in the statisticians). Now you have the original two maxed stacks of 30 innocents, and 1 stack of about 2 unsubdued statistician innocents. Otherwise look through your inventory and pull all the Statisticians off the items and into the warehouse.
Now, pick a low level item...a thimble will do just fine since its cheap and the monsters will be very low level. Do NOT attach your statisticians to the thimble yet. Go into item world for the thimble and get to level 10, the innocent town. Talk to the top NPC, and have him switch his route for this item to innocent enhancements, then exit the item. You don't want to subdue innocents in an item that has not yet been switched to the innocent enhancement route. It will mean a difference between a stack of one unsubdued innocents becoming a stack of 1 subdued innocent vs one unsubdued becoming 40 subdued innocents.
I'm going to deviate a moment and talk about squad grinding then come back to innocents:
SUPER SQUAD Grinding:
Now some preparation. Take your highest level character and put it in the capture squad. hopefully you have some prisoners to spend...if not you can just grind some using the capture squad. Level 3-4 is a small level that has only 3 enemies in it, right near your entry point. use your highest level character to capture these three units. repeat until you have a few dozen prisoners.
Return to your base, go to the squad NPC, move the cursor down to the interrogation squad, press the button to go into the details and turn in units here until you unlock the 'interogate all prisoners at once' option, then go into the capture squad and drop prisoners into it until you get level 3, that lets you capture at a range of 3.
go back into level 3-4. now your highest level character can use Capture skill level 2, which will make this level go much faster...you just walk up to the middle one and use skill 2, and it gets all three of them.
You want to do this a few times and put some more points into interrogation squad so you can interrogate every prisoner in one cycle of 5 'special' attacks. Prisoners who have been interrogated completely will give you more 3 times more points when you add them to a squad to buff its skills.
Now, you want to use the cheat shop to raise the star level to a point that your highest level character can still capture those three creatures every time on the first attempt using capture 2. Repeat this a bunch of times and max out the innocent HUNTER squad. Then level the Innocent AID squad ONLY to level 7. Do not get that 'innocents are born subued' rank.
This isnt that hard. I got to the desired levels in less than an hours worth of grinding 3-4 with the monster levels no higher than 7 or 8 stars in the cheat shop (level 45-50). (Don't forget to lower the stars before you continue your story mode).
Okay, back to SUPER innocents.
So back to our single stacks of 1 or 2 innocents each. go through all your items in your inventory to see if you have any statisticians you missed, pull them off the items, pick your thimble and put all the stacks of unsubdued statisticians that will fit on your thimble together. Make sure you have filled up the innocent aid and hunter squads with people so you get the max bonus, and that the hunter squad is filled with people that have good movement and decent level/stats. you would have picked up the 'deathblow innocents' skill along the way so really you just need someone that can one turn his way across the level to an innocent and smack him. Go into item world of your thimble again. subdue innocents as you go down another 10 levels...you should get most or all of the stacks along the way, and when you come out again, those stacks of 1-2 will now be stacks of 25-45, most of them will be unmaxed.
Now, go back to the farm. Take your highest maxed subdued stack of Statisticians and put them in the farm ONLY with one of your stacks of subdued innocents you just got that is NOT maxed. merge them. Now you have a much larger stack that is NOT maxed, and is in fact, 'powered up' to have a larger maximum stack. remove this one, and repeat with your next highest maxed subdued stack, merge it with a subdued unmaxed stack...repeat this until you have several roughly equal stacks of unmaxed subdued innocents. These should go into the farm together to produce more unsubdued (but higher starting amounts) of the same kind of innocents. eventually the stacks in the farm will max out by themselves...take the unsubdued innocents put them on the same innocent route thimble and go through another 10 levels, subduing them along the way.
At this point, you repeat the process of turning large subdued max stacks into larger subdued UNMAXED stacks until they hit the limit (900 a stack for Statisticians).
After this, you probably want to do the same process with Broker and Mentor type innocents as these tend to be the most valuable ones to have maxed on your characters, especially when you are power grinding.
EDIT: I said Mentor, but I meant Manager. Statisticians give bonus XP, Managers give bonus Mana, Brokers give bonus HL.
SUPER Early Game information:
The first thing you want to do when you start this game is assign a subclass to every character you have available to you.
These are the classes you want to rank up to first:
Warrior or Valkyrie - 3 stars
Mage - to 3 stars
Healer - 3 stars
Maid - 3 stars
Martial Artist - 3 stars
When you have hit the recommended star level on your subclass on the characters you are using the most, switch to one you have not covered yet. You don't need every character you use to have all of them (yet!) but you want at least one to hit these numbers.
After you hit all threes in those, you can turn in the quests at the shop, and unlock more classes, your next goal is this:
Archer 2 star
Magic knight 4 star
armor knight 2 star
Thief 2 star
Gunner 2 star
Gunner and Maid 2 star get you Professor: Get Professor to Rank 2. This unlocks sage.
Get all these and you now have access to every class in the game except one that isnt available until post game.
Now you want to pick whatever subclass you desire...max it and move on with every character. The purpose of this is that each subclass you max, gives you a bonus to your ability growth when you reincarnate, and the bonus gets bigger with each star level.
SUPER Early Character leveling (level 1-100).
if you hit a point that you feel your characters are underleveled, go to the item shop, and buy 100 - 200 unopened sodas. Set the cheat shop to max XP growth, go into level 2-1. take your most used 8-9 characters, move then to the left of the starting point, surrounding the yellow geopanel. the monsters should not move when you end a turn. Every turn, have your all your characters drink a soda, then end the turn. repeat this until you are out of unopened soda, and opened soda. your characters will gain a level every few drinks depending on your cheat shop bonus. There are other ways to improve the xp gain from the sodas, but its still not worth doing higher than level 100 or so.
SUPER Next grinding of levels point. 120+
Level 4-2, with the cheat shop raising the star level to 16. This will produce level 99 monsters. It's a long standing thing in the Disgaea series that level 99 monsters are worth the same amount of experience as level 300 monsters. So killing them (Fire spells work best since they are mushrooms), gives you plenty of xp to boost your levels just killing them normally. You can speed this up by using tower grinding since the xp is given to all the characters on the tower, not just one. Look up how to tower grind on youtube.
EDIT: Not enough Supers.
Stat grinding.
Once you have the capture farm running with 20 stars (monsters are about level 105 in 3-4), you can instead of dumping them into squads, turn them into essences. This is all normal game, not post game...there are maps available where you can use the higher rank capture to capture 9 at a time, which is obviously better but it does not really unlock until you are in the post game and have access to money maps or higher martial training levels.
Do NOT use these essences in the pocket netherworld. Instead, level your maid until she has the skill that lets you use one item on a group of 5 people...Use the Dark Assembly to merge all these shards of power, and have her use the merged items in a battlefield on the 5 characters you want to buff with the stats. Remember, when you reincarnate while you retain a certain amount of stats from the previous life, you do lose a lot so this is more a thing you want to do over a long period of time...go capture when you want time to pass quickly (like waiting for innocents to breed), do 10 runs of 3-4 at 20 stars, check on innocents, repeat...just remember you can only hold like 128 prisoners before it maxes out, so periodically go interrogate them, then turn them into stat items. the merging of these items is just to make your inventory easier to manage and to make applying them later quicker since you will have hundreds of them.
The Dark Assembly:
Mana, unless you are specifically farming it, tends to grow very disproportionally. You don't want to waste it. Go back and capture farm enough prisoners at as high level as possible and max out the Dark Assembly squad...make sure you have enough characters to fill it completely. When its completely maxed you generally will never fail a bill. This will come in super handly post game as well, so its worth doing early.
The Cheat Shop and farming in general:
The Key here is to SPECIALIZE. If you are going to XP grind, Do everything to buff that. Put 900 Statisticians on the character that will be doing the most damage, put him in the Squad XP boot camp so that 10 other characters will also be leveled up pretty well. Set the Cheat shop to 0% everything else, put it all into XP, pass the 3x XP on the next map so the leader of the boot camp squad is getting craploads of XP and its passing also to its members. Mana grinding? Same thing except replace the word XP with Mana, and Statisticians with Managers.
Just Don't forget to set the cheat shop back to normal before you continue normal gaming.
Equipment:
Okay, now your inventory is going to get huge. All this crap you pick up from bonus items, random items you find in chests, stuff you get back from doing netherworld research...it piles up. While the game has a very handy 'sort' button that may seem very tempting to press, Hold off on that for a minute. The inventory system is a bit smarter then its given credit for. Lets say the last time you went through your inventory looking for specific innocents was 3 days ago. lots of new stuff has been added to the inventory tab = all....but its all at the bottom of the list. That means, you dont have to go through every item, just the new stuff. Start at the bottom then work your way upward until you are caught up...THEN you can hit the sort button....this way its easy to tell where the new items start piling up again...once you sort it, they get mixed in with the item type, and the new items start pilling up at the bottom again for later review.
Don't feel like you need to get the latest weapon available from the shop, as soon as it comes out. Just start watching yourself in battlefields...is your main starting to take more damage then normal? is he taking more turns to kill something? maybe its time to do an upgrade cycle. and it doesnt have to be the most expensive...if you check the difference of 3 million HL cost items may only be 20-40 atk and soon enough those top level items will probably start dropping from chests anyway.
Putting cheat shop to 200% XP, passing the 3X XP bill, and sitting on the 50% bonus xp panel in 2-1 will make you level up every single time you use an item.
Interesting about the maid stuff, but it makes me want to hold off on all shard use because i plan on reincarnating a few times with each character.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Huh. Didn't know that, but interesting for early game.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
And since eventually, you can dual wield magichange, and GIANT dual wield magichange, you can quintuple your grinding efficiency, at least in regards to monsters.
So temporarily reincarnate generics into monsters while you're grinding, while also using a few premiere permanent monsters (Usalia, Desco, Metalia, and Priere are highly recommended because they're all great units) who you can let get massively overleveled so that their personal 'equipment' stats when magichanged can let even level 1 dudes kill things to slingshot them back to to the correct level.
Use Unopened Sodas, which turn into Opened Sodas after using once, get to use 2 items per 1 item bought. Also maids get to use multiple items per turn so they are easier to level this way. This was how the PS4 demo was cracked wide open and people got to crazy high levels and such.
You can throw an enemy at an invulnerability geopanel to kill the panel. There is no "no color change" in Disgaea 5.
That is my single most loved change after playing the first game (only other one I've played). Maps were way too big and random floating platforms in the middle of nowhere that screwed me out of getting full clears or geo combos suuuuucked. Small maps rule for descending the item world quickly.
How does this work? If innocents are on an item when it levels up something happens? Why not use the good ones here?
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
I think the theory is because if you subdue innoncents with the hunter squad once you've leveled it, they get a big multiplier. While true, the numbers on the innocents is really low for the early part of the game, so I'd argue it's pretty minor.
Its not just the hunter squad.
You don't want to waste your good and rare unsubdued innocents on the first 10 levels of an item because setting the item to 'innocent enhancement route' gives an ADDITIONAL bonus to the hunter and aid squads when you subdue an innocent.
subduing a single stack of 1 innocent without a route set yields 1 subdued innocent.
Subduing a single stack of 1 innocent with the route set to innocent enhancement + max hunter squad (doing the subduing) + level 7 aid squad = 30 subdued innocents. its literally a return of like x30 what the size of the stack is.
Later when you have two stacks of 500 subdued innocents in the farm, they breed a stack of 30-60 innocents, so taking those going through the above = much faster innocent production.
The Cheat shop options give no bonus for subclass farming correct? Special skill xp, weapon xp and normal xp are not what contributes to star level? if not, then what does to speed up star farming?
Next, what does a reincarnation cycle look like? I'd like to do it, but i get this feeling if i do it now, its not the best time. Should i be saving all my magic extracts to use after i reincarnate or before? arent i going to lose most of those stats from reincarnation?
You also get more class xp from mass slaughtering lower level enemies than if you combined them all into one higher level enemy, even though that combined enemy provides more XP/HEL/MANA than the individual small frys. This means item world dives slaughtering everything and breaking items are worthwhile as far as entertaining methods of grinding classes go.
Drinking tons of soda also provides xp. Casting espoir, heal, and support spells, as well as debuffs can be a way to grind those spells and class rank as well.
This is looks like it's for post-game grinding:
That's also a place where you should be using magichange x4. Two characters with geo blast, each with four more characters magichanged onto them, and wham. That's 10+ characters you're mastering per stage, with the caveat that it only gets you 98% of the way mastered for the 'high level' classes like sages or dragon kings. You spend easily 4-5 as much time just changing the subclass for all of them than you do actually mastering them. Which is also why human uniques are kind of a pain in the postgame. Generics you can temporarily reincarnate to whatever monster.
But yeah basically:
- unlock carnage dimension
- with fully maxed out alchemy, create a carnage eclair
- with fully maxed out skill squad, put a pirate with geo blast as the leader and add the others you want to level
- enter the carnage eclair hoping for geo symbols
- geo blast all of them with different characters
- Mr. Gency out, change classes if mastered and dive back in
I don't know if it's worth trying to grind class XP before this point in the game, it's just so slow otherwise.
You can skip this step by using the Enryngi evility that spits out mushroom soup while in a carnage map.
Stats from extracts and shards are entirely separate from level-up stats, they're 100% permanent.
I found it way easier to use alchemy, since you can do it the moment you unlock the carnage dimension. I had maxed alchemy already, and did not have any investment in any mushroom guys, especially the level required to be able to tank hits in the carnage dimension.
I think that method is more for getting a Carnage Arcadia and eventually Trapezohedron.
Only if it maintains later moves in the chain. Like if you hit it into the path of an AoE aimed at someone else it will maintain it I think.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Was doing pretty good too until the fight with Emizel at the end of chapter 1. Literally the first thing he did was oneshot Valvatorez with a fire spell. I beat the mission eventually, but only after all of my units except for 3 died.
Also I made a thief and gave her a gun! I think she hit one person with it! And it did like 3 damage! I don't know what I'm doing!
For what it's worth, I'd put 4 just behind the first in terms of story and characters. 5 is a bit weaker in the intraparty antics and a few of the story beats get repetitive. Less backstory to anyone but Killia too it feels like.
I'll be honest, thieves are not nearly as easy to set up as just giving a fighter an axe and telling them to go nuts (or a mage, and the spell effects get amazingly over the top by endgame)
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Sounds like a plan to me.
Oh yeah, and my thief can't even steal. I think I got a steal skill from completing a mission? It's in my inventory and I don't know what to do with it to make it usable.
I think 4 has the best overall story and characters, but it definitely flags pretty badly at the end while 1 and 2's weak parts are the aimless rambling middles with much stronger endings. Just cut out all that awful shit with Flonne, and redo pretty much the entire last chapter. So fucking awful. I don't know what made them so enamored of the ridiculous escalations at the end of the game. Probably thought they were being funny. They were not.
Stealing is done using Hand items, generally, though apparently Thieves eventually get a skill to steal without needing a Hand.
Nope, NG+ is still exactly the same as it's always been.
I played quite a bit this weekend, and thought i would sum up the pre-post-game leveling path, having reached level 9999 (with one character at least, most of the rest around 5-6000).
I have not yet Reincarnated any characters. But having finally unlocked the carnage dimension storyline quest (and getting my ass KICKED by it), thats next on my list.
Relevent points:
-You do not need more than 1 stack of 900 statisticians. it doesnt hurt to have more, but a character equipping statisticians while just a unit, not a leader of the xp boot camp squad will not gain extra xp.
-You do not really NEED manager innocents if you can get the two evility bonuses from char world on your farming character. I'm not sure if i just got lucky with both of these showing up one right after the other, or if its normal).
Level 1-100. Unopened soda trick in 2-1 when i felt i needed a boost above the storyline fights. The only DLC character im using is Metallia, and shes *SO* OP, especially once she unlocks the 'World is Metallia's' ability. (Shes my 9999).your goal is to get to the point where Metallia + a professors int buff + a sages double attack buff can kill everything in her skills radius on 4-2 with 16 stars.
Levels 100-1000 Once you can do this, put metallia into the boot training as leader (and all the characters you want to level as units) with as big a stack of Statisticians you can make in her equipment (you have been buffing your subdued innocents right? having 900 stats makes this very quick). after 2-3 clears of 4-2 Metallia will be several hundred levels up, and all the other characters only a bit behind and she can do it herself without the professor or sage. You can continue this to decent effect past level 1000 but its quicker to shift your target.
Level 1000+ Run Metallia through the char world a few times, and always check what evilities are offered as the bonus.. what you want are the +100% and +200% mana gained evilities (This saves you from having to farm manager innocents). put both of them on her, then switch the cheat shop to full mana (and put her into the channeling squad to spread around the wealth), and farm enough mana to unlock Martial training 1,2,and 3. switch back to XP in the shop/squad and farm martial training 3, again, you may need to buff metallia with your sage/professor to make this a one shot kill on the whole group, but it will only take a few kills to get her buffed to the point she can do it on her own.
When you get metallia to level 3-4000, you now have a character that can force its way through any dark assembly bill you want to pass. farm mana to unlock martial training 4 and 5. Martial training 5 at 20 stars in the shop will be your farming point back in the xp squad/shop maxed out. You can get to 9999 from here. the other characters in your squad may fall behind a bit, metallia at 9999 and the squad at about level 5k.
Finish the game story, start doing any bills in the assembly that unlock new levels, do the challenge quests, unlock asagi....eventually get the carnage dimension storyline to unlock.
If someone wants to write a good guide to reincarnation, That would be great.