nunu is actually really bad at jungling. he's only good at counter jungling and ganks, consume has a huge cooldown
Consume has a huge cooldown but the big creeps are getting more HP/damage out of the small ones and there is a buff coming to the single target DPS of attack speed based champions.
This negates nunu's jungle weakness which is the duration of time it takes him to kill the smaller creeps in a wave while making his consume more effective. Plus he can still counter jungle with consume and still gank with his snowball.
no, nunu was a poor jungler before the remake too. he has nothing but consume unless you build him ad. consume is not nearly enough early on and scales poorly. he has always been a counter jungler because consume is perfect for running in and grabbing one big creep
Now that i think about it they were probably building poorly anyway.
Tiamat: 2070 gold
50 AD
15 HP/5
5 MP/5
50% Splash on all attacks.
Over 4 attacks tiamat splahes for 200% physical damage. Which will be about 300 damage assuming 100 base AD)
Ionic Spark: 2100 Gold
+50% AS
250 HP
+125 damage to 4 targets every 4 attacks.
Over 4 attacks Ionic spark splashes for 125 damage. Lets say they actually come 50% faster(they don't) so you get 4 attacks for every 3 from the tiamat.
Tiamat still clears waves twice as fast as the spark. The only thing that the spark has going for it is the bonus HP/AS for AS based champions, but tiamat probably still does more damage in team fights than the spark.
One of Tiamat's major problems is that the splash range is tiny. It's smaller than melee attack range. In all situations Ionic Spark will clear faster. Hotshot used it for Shen, who doesn't need Mp5 and works great with the AS. Wickd built it on Irelia, and used it both as a wave clear and as a pseudo-Jax ult, auto attack 3 times then jump on enemy champ for burst. In teamfights, once again Tiamat's limited range also meant it could never outdamage Ionic Spark.
If that's the Manamune upgrade's passive, AD Malz is going to love it.
Is AD Malz really a thing? I thought it was a joke build for messing around, like Reverse Support Hecarim.
AD Malz really is a thing but people he is rare.
That being said: The Manamune upgrade won't be that strong on AD malz because his minions aren't basic attacks and they aren't spells(they don't benefit from any on-hit effects), and most of his spells are AoE. So what you end up with is a bonus that only applies to his space aids(maybe) and his ultimate)
Free bonus damage on the spell which controls his voidlings? That sounds potentially very nice to me, depending on things like numbers and how it interacts with damage over time abilities.
Also, slight update on my end of the season push and support Nidalee in ranked:
So yeah. What did season two teach me? Play when the que isn't full of crap and you won't dig a ginormous hole. Also, elo is a crappy system.
Edit: Also, earning honor like a beast after being banned for having a 'negative attitude'. It's raining candy in the league.
You managed to get banned? Was this before or after the report card system?
After. I was banned for some passive aggression in two games with trolls and shoopdawhoop I was banned. I told everyone about it when someone mentioned Riot was cracking down. About the only thing they could find to ban me for now though is having too much fun. Winning non stop and throwing spells like a mad hatter as I get honor and elo.
The system works then if you adjusted your attitude. In general the statistics they released showed that first time offenders tended to shape up and not become repeat offenders.
I have to say I really am impressed with the tribunal system. It works pretty damned well.
Except I didn't adjust my attitude. I just didn't play league outside a win a day on my alt. I'm the same guy and I act the same in games. I was getting honor rampantly before, and winning a bulk of games as support Nidalee before. My performance is slightly styronger and my win rate a bit higher, but not really doing anything different. My point was Riot is going overboard in it's bans to the point they will hit just about anything that gets reported. Which is dumb because it promotes goosery.
Free bonus damage on the spell which controls his voidlings? That sounds potentially very nice to me, depending on things like numbers and how it interacts with damage over time abilities.
Maybe free bonus damage on the spell which controls his voidlings, but NO bonus damage on his primary damage (voidlings) which is much more significant. And NO easy way to charge the item in order to make it to that point.
no, nunu was a poor jungler before the remake too. he has nothing but consume unless you build him ad. consume is not nearly enough early on and scales poorly. he has always been a counter jungler because consume is perfect for running in and grabbing one big creep
WTF are you talking about? Because I am and have been talking about the potential effect of the S3 changes and you seem to be talking about season 1.
Consume scales pretty damned amazingly, getting enough damage to one shot the big creep and decreased coolodown as you level it up. Not that you should but it does.
The S3 jungle changes are going to be putting more value on the big creep and less on the small creeps. This makes big single target damage more valuable than AoE damage and negates the single target clear time disadvantages.
The S3 jungle changes are going to buff champions with attack speed buffs by providing a level 1 item designed strictly to make clearing jungle creeps faster and easier for champions with attack speed buffs. In addition this item buffs, vs creeps, every ability nunu will use on them (since they're single target)
Also, slight update on my end of the season push and support Nidalee in ranked:
So yeah. What did season two teach me? Play when the que isn't full of crap and you won't dig a ginormous hole. Also, elo is a crappy system.
Edit: Also, earning honor like a beast after being banned for having a 'negative attitude'. It's raining candy in the league.
You managed to get banned? Was this before or after the report card system?
After. I was banned for some passive aggression in two games with trolls and shoopdawhoop I was banned. I told everyone about it when someone mentioned Riot was cracking down. About the only thing they could find to ban me for now though is having too much fun. Winning non stop and throwing spells like a mad hatter as I get honor and elo.
The system works then if you adjusted your attitude. In general the statistics they released showed that first time offenders tended to shape up and not become repeat offenders.
I have to say I really am impressed with the tribunal system. It works pretty damned well.
Except I didn't adjust my attitude. I just didn't play league outside a win a day on my alt. I'm the same guy and I act the same in games. I was getting honor rampantly before, and winning a bulk of games as support Nidalee before. My performance is slightly styronger and my win rate a bit higher, but not really doing anything different. My point was Riot is going overboard in it's bans to the point they will hit just about anything that gets reported. Which is dumb because it promotes goosery.
Then i'm sure you'll get to your second run in with the Tribunal eventually.
On a side not Zed is pretty decent in TT, but this Darius was weird. Started Boots/cloth armor/and I don't even know how many potions (5? 6?) and basically just tried to be super bully Darius.
Didn't actually work though.
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One of Tiamat's major problems is that the splash range is tiny. It's smaller than melee attack range. In all situations Ionic Spark will clear faster. Hotshot used it for Shen, who doesn't need Mp5 and works great with the AS. Wickd built it on Irelia, and used it both as a wave clear and as a pseudo-Jax ult, auto attack 3 times then jump on enemy champ for burst. In teamfights, once again Tiamat's limited range also meant it could never outdamage Ionic Spark.
Splash range on tiamat is 180, longer than all melee attack ranges. Its long enough to hit all three melee or ranged minions if you hit the center creep. If you're pushing (so that you're tanking the creeps) you're going to get roughly the entire wave in an attack
The tiamat splash wouldn't be the thing that would increase the team fight DPS, it would be the 50 AD, which is far more damaging than 50% attack speed tends to be. 50% AS tends to be a 30% or so increase in DPS due to raw AS scaling, but 50 AD as a single damage item is a 50% increase in damage.
I can see the spark working better on Shen (HP and AS scaling) but not on anyone else, and tiamat will still push faster.
That is extremely good for its cost. Like, I can see junglers and mids also buying it.
Depends on what it turns into, slot efficiency is important as well for mid and jungle.
It's 650 gold. You could just sell it when you needed more slots. Also, that slot would normally hold a ward anyways.
That depends. Riot is saying that the jungle difficulty is going to be scaling up harder, so spending 650 on something that doesn't help you clear better on a support jungler (Skarner) might really gimp you. Likewise with carry junglers, that's 650 that you aren't spending on better ganks or more damage.
That said, you make your money back on the 9th ward, so you're getting your ROI at 15 minutes (not counting the worth of 125 hp or whatever it builds into).
That depends. Riot is saying that the jungle difficulty is going to be scaling up harder, so spending 650 on something that doesn't help you clear better on a support jungler (Skarner) might really gimp you. Likewise with carry junglers, that's 650 that you aren't spending on better ganks or more damage.
That said, you make your money back on the 9th ward, so you're getting your ROI at 15 minutes (not counting the worth of 125 hp or whatever it builds into).
The only "problem" I see with it (depending on what it builds into) is that it limits you to two wards out at a time. This means that without taking another slot for wards its going to be hard to "vision carry" for your team. Past laning the ability to place more than 2 wards at once is super huge. On the other side it might make other lanes buy more wards.
The big advantages is that at 4 wards held this is 6 minutes before you have to go b when laning assuming 2 wards placed at all times. Alternately you can replace wards that get pinked/oracles without any cost (since you have to go b to get more wards anyway) and this will speed up the break even time
uh you don't see any comparisons between season 1 and season 3 jungles? are you being intentionally dense? nunu was still terrible at actual jungling in s1 when jungle mobs were much stronger. consume just isn't that good at sustained jungling, it's an invasion skill. nunu used to spend more time in the enemy jungle than his own because he would starve the other jungler.
uh you don't see any comparisons between season 1 and season 3 jungles? are you being intentionally dense? nunu was still terrible at actual jungling in s1 when jungle mobs were much stronger. consume just isn't that good at sustained jungling, it's an invasion skill. nunu used to spend more time in the enemy jungle than his own because he would starve the other jungler.
Nunu was weakened as a jungler in season 2(he was pretty common in s1 iirc, not just as counter jungling) and there are more buffs to him in season 3 above his season 1 strength (where he was pretty common) due to a level 1 clear speed buff
Yea, I'm glad Nunu is gonna be even better.. He's already pretty strong after that last buff he got (he's my third most played, and my 2nd highest win % for over 20 games I think).. He's sooo good at controlling jungle, and tempo, and just tower diving/not letting people escape. Plus you can do a level 4 dragon if you have a team that coordinates well... Wish he had more play to him, as all there really is is knowing how to ward, keep track of their jungler/team objectives, and knowing who to blood boil.. No skill shots or anything. Oh, and also always using his ult in a bush, and try to get baited into.. That's always fun.
back when you couldn't leash blue nunu was actually at risk of dying to it even with consume and smite. he's just not good at sustained jungling. the reason they nerfed him is he made a lot of junglers unviable because they could not deal with his counterjungling. since the jungle was more difficult losing the exp from big wraith and mini golem was crushing.
God Lee Sin is so fun. Now that I can actually play him, i'm such a terror out of the jungle, and for some reason people keep picking Nautilus, so I steal all his buffs and kill him in his jungle and ruin his entire game.
Syndra is a beast right now. I mean it. She got a couple qol buffs and I think I've seen maybe 1 or 2 lose a game since.
This is a fact. Great wave clear with Q/W and aoe in team fights, an aoe stun with about a 1200 range if you can land it, and an ult that bursts single targets crazy hard. I've had more 12+ kill games carrying mid with her than probably any other mid since I bought her like 2 weeks ago.
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I've been having good luck against Syndra as Talon, lately. But yeah, if I see her mid, and I'm not midding Talon or someone similar, I pee a little now.
2nd picked Kayle, since Mid and Jungle were taken and I figured hey I can do anything else. Ended up ADC, and we were against Ashe/Nunu. WIth Soraka as my support.
ADC Kayle. So fun.
What's that nunu/ashe? You slowed me? Well I slowed you. And sped myself right back up. And killed you both. And farmed the whole wave at once.
I've noticed a drastic shift in my playing. As I got better at the game through the level crawl, I went through phases of liking each position, and still kind of jumped around. Finally settled on top. Then for some reason every game I would go into top and mid were called. I mean I can jungle so if ADC was called I'd jungle. And I can support, so if both were called I'd support.
But more and more I was left with ADC. So I started playing it more and more. And now it's like home for me. I keep getting stuck in ADC and loving the crap out of it now. And I never have to fight for anything.
One of Tiamat's major problems is that the splash range is tiny. It's smaller than melee attack range. In all situations Ionic Spark will clear faster. Hotshot used it for Shen, who doesn't need Mp5 and works great with the AS. Wickd built it on Irelia, and used it both as a wave clear and as a pseudo-Jax ult, auto attack 3 times then jump on enemy champ for burst. In teamfights, once again Tiamat's limited range also meant it could never outdamage Ionic Spark.
Splash range on tiamat is 180, longer than all melee attack ranges. Its long enough to hit all three melee or ranged minions if you hit the center creep. If you're pushing (so that you're tanking the creeps) you're going to get roughly the entire wave in an attack
The tiamat splash wouldn't be the thing that would increase the team fight DPS, it would be the 50 AD, which is far more damaging than 50% attack speed tends to be. 50% AS tends to be a 30% or so increase in DPS due to raw AS scaling, but 50 AD as a single damage item is a 50% increase in damage.
I can see the spark working better on Shen (HP and AS scaling) but not on anyone else, and tiamat will still push faster.
That's wrong- Tiamat splash, like spells, is calculated from the middle of a model, while autoattacks are calculated from the edge of a model. It's more like 2/3s melee autoattack range. Since we are comparing Tiamat vs Ionic Spark, it only makes sense to talk about for the champs that would buy them like Shen & Irelia (and Volibear, but no one plays Volibear). In those situations IS does synergize with their abilities more for more DPS.
Even if we were to compare it on other champions, damage modeling:
Tiamat
+50 AD and 50% physical splash proc
Assume hit on primary target and splash on 2 others, 1.0 AS over 8 seconds, melee attacker, 80 armor on targets (average armor)
Additional damage: (50+25+25)*8= 800 physical damage, armor multiplier 55.5%
Final total: 444 additional damage
Ionic Spark:
+30% AS and 125 magic damage proc
Assume proc on 3 targets, 1.22 AS (factoring in IS) over 8 seconds, 52.6 MR (bruiser's MR at 18)
9.76 attacks, 2 successful procs minimum: 125*6 =750 magic damage, MR multipler 65.5%
Final total: 491.25 additional damage
And that's with an extremely favorable situation for Tiamat.
Best game I have ever had a AD carry, thank you double lift, for showing me a few tips and tricks. Also riot graves, because I put my try hard pants on when I have a skin.
Best game I have ever had a AD carry, thank you double lift, for showing me a few tips and tricks. Also riot graves, because I put my try hard pants on when I have a skin.
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Consume has a huge cooldown but the big creeps are getting more HP/damage out of the small ones and there is a buff coming to the single target DPS of attack speed based champions.
This negates nunu's jungle weakness which is the duration of time it takes him to kill the smaller creeps in a wave while making his consume more effective. Plus he can still counter jungle with consume and still gank with his snowball.
Syndra is a beast right now. I mean it. She got a couple qol buffs and I think I've seen maybe 1 or 2 lose a game since.
One of Tiamat's major problems is that the splash range is tiny. It's smaller than melee attack range. In all situations Ionic Spark will clear faster. Hotshot used it for Shen, who doesn't need Mp5 and works great with the AS. Wickd built it on Irelia, and used it both as a wave clear and as a pseudo-Jax ult, auto attack 3 times then jump on enemy champ for burst. In teamfights, once again Tiamat's limited range also meant it could never outdamage Ionic Spark.
Free bonus damage on the spell which controls his voidlings? That sounds potentially very nice to me, depending on things like numbers and how it interacts with damage over time abilities.
Except I didn't adjust my attitude. I just didn't play league outside a win a day on my alt. I'm the same guy and I act the same in games. I was getting honor rampantly before, and winning a bulk of games as support Nidalee before. My performance is slightly styronger and my win rate a bit higher, but not really doing anything different. My point was Riot is going overboard in it's bans to the point they will hit just about anything that gets reported. Which is dumb because it promotes goosery.
Maybe free bonus damage on the spell which controls his voidlings, but NO bonus damage on his primary damage (voidlings) which is much more significant. And NO easy way to charge the item in order to make it to that point.
WTF are you talking about? Because I am and have been talking about the potential effect of the S3 changes and you seem to be talking about season 1.
Consume scales pretty damned amazingly, getting enough damage to one shot the big creep and decreased coolodown as you level it up. Not that you should but it does.
The S3 jungle changes are going to be putting more value on the big creep and less on the small creeps. This makes big single target damage more valuable than AoE damage and negates the single target clear time disadvantages.
The S3 jungle changes are going to buff champions with attack speed buffs by providing a level 1 item designed strictly to make clearing jungle creeps faster and easier for champions with attack speed buffs. In addition this item buffs, vs creeps, every ability nunu will use on them (since they're single target)
Then i'm sure you'll get to your second run in with the Tribunal eventually.
On a side not Zed is pretty decent in TT, but this Darius was weird. Started Boots/cloth armor/and I don't even know how many potions (5? 6?) and basically just tried to be super bully Darius.
Didn't actually work though.
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Splash range on tiamat is 180, longer than all melee attack ranges. Its long enough to hit all three melee or ranged minions if you hit the center creep. If you're pushing (so that you're tanking the creeps) you're going to get roughly the entire wave in an attack
The tiamat splash wouldn't be the thing that would increase the team fight DPS, it would be the 50 AD, which is far more damaging than 50% attack speed tends to be. 50% AS tends to be a 30% or so increase in DPS due to raw AS scaling, but 50 AD as a single damage item is a 50% increase in damage.
I can see the spark working better on Shen (HP and AS scaling) but not on anyone else, and tiamat will still push faster.
That depends. Riot is saying that the jungle difficulty is going to be scaling up harder, so spending 650 on something that doesn't help you clear better on a support jungler (Skarner) might really gimp you. Likewise with carry junglers, that's 650 that you aren't spending on better ganks or more damage.
That said, you make your money back on the 9th ward, so you're getting your ROI at 15 minutes (not counting the worth of 125 hp or whatever it builds into).
The only "problem" I see with it (depending on what it builds into) is that it limits you to two wards out at a time. This means that without taking another slot for wards its going to be hard to "vision carry" for your team. Past laning the ability to place more than 2 wards at once is super huge. On the other side it might make other lanes buy more wards.
The big advantages is that at 4 wards held this is 6 minutes before you have to go b when laning assuming 2 wards placed at all times. Alternately you can replace wards that get pinked/oracles without any cost (since you have to go b to get more wards anyway) and this will speed up the break even time
That poor poor jax. Wasn't much he could do against me in top lane.
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Nunu was weakened as a jungler in season 2(he was pretty common in s1 iirc, not just as counter jungling) and there are more buffs to him in season 3 above his season 1 strength (where he was pretty common) due to a level 1 clear speed buff
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
This is a fact. Great wave clear with Q/W and aoe in team fights, an aoe stun with about a 1200 range if you can land it, and an ult that bursts single targets crazy hard. I've had more 12+ kill games carrying mid with her than probably any other mid since I bought her like 2 weeks ago.
2nd picked Kayle, since Mid and Jungle were taken and I figured hey I can do anything else. Ended up ADC, and we were against Ashe/Nunu. WIth Soraka as my support.
ADC Kayle. So fun.
What's that nunu/ashe? You slowed me? Well I slowed you. And sped myself right back up. And killed you both. And farmed the whole wave at once.
I've noticed a drastic shift in my playing. As I got better at the game through the level crawl, I went through phases of liking each position, and still kind of jumped around. Finally settled on top. Then for some reason every game I would go into top and mid were called. I mean I can jungle so if ADC was called I'd jungle. And I can support, so if both were called I'd support.
But more and more I was left with ADC. So I started playing it more and more. And now it's like home for me. I keep getting stuck in ADC and loving the crap out of it now. And I never have to fight for anything.
Even if we were to compare it on other champions, damage modeling:
Tiamat
+50 AD and 50% physical splash proc
Assume hit on primary target and splash on 2 others, 1.0 AS over 8 seconds, melee attacker, 80 armor on targets (average armor)
Additional damage: (50+25+25)*8= 800 physical damage, armor multiplier 55.5%
Final total: 444 additional damage
Ionic Spark:
+30% AS and 125 magic damage proc
Assume proc on 3 targets, 1.22 AS (factoring in IS) over 8 seconds, 52.6 MR (bruiser's MR at 18)
9.76 attacks, 2 successful procs minimum: 125*6 =750 magic damage, MR multipler 65.5%
Final total: 491.25 additional damage
And that's with an extremely favorable situation for Tiamat.
Either @vagrant_winds , Fossa, or @wolfmini Not sure which time you were referring to but all three were on at some point.
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0% accuracy.
Well, that happens sometimes, I guess.
Sometimes MF and Varus. But still mostly Graves Ez and Corki.
Also what the fuck is that SS
Also, had most amazing and terrible fight today.
1v1 duel between Jax and Pantheon.
BLOCK DODGE BLOCK DODGE BLOCK DODGE 5, 6, 7, BLOCK DODGE BLOCK STUN..............BLOCK
I think Miss Fortune has the highest winrate, which is pretty telling when she has no escapes.
@unintentional: They were LANing and had connection problems. Literally none of them loaded until ~3 minutes.
They all DC'd at level one and then quit when the Amumu came to back to having no jungle.
Steam: Drokmir
Best game I have ever had a AD carry, thank you double lift, for showing me a few tips and tricks. Also riot graves, because I put my try hard pants on when I have a skin.
Its like that vayne wanted to do zero damage.