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[PA Comic] Wednesday, November 7, 2012 - Dongles

GethGeth LegionPerseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
edited November 2012 in The Penny Arcade Hub
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    Comedy RefluxComedy Reflux Web creator FlandersRegistered User regular
    When trying to plug holes, it's always difficult to find the right equipment to 'communicate'. #Somethingsneverchange

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    Back after a three year hiatus!
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    LaCabraLaCabra MelbourneRegistered User regular
    What they need is some kind of universal serial bus.

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    That Cortana is adorable

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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    That Cortana is adorable
    Her stomach looks like a crude representation of a vagina.

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Does Radio Shack still sell that shit south of the 49th? 'Cause it was all cell phones and crappy off-brand electronics here before it went under.

    Want to find me on a gaming service? I'm SwashbucklerXX everywhere.
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    Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Heresy! Science Fiction media has taught me alien technology is ALWAYS easily compatible with human technology. Regardless of the fact most human technology 15 years forwards or backwards isn't compatible with other human technology.

    On a side note, I'm kind of disappointed Mike and Jerry haven't done a Wreck-it Ralph strip(yet?). I thought it would be prime strip material considering how big a Disney fan Mike is and how its such a wonderful tribute to gaming culture.

    Black_Heart on
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    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Kagera wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    That Cortana is adorable
    Her stomach looks like a crude representation of a vagina.

    Holy shit, thank god someone else said it. I was wondering if he was going to say "just give me a male to male cord" Its creepier that it makes the camel toe(super creeper) look like testes.

    Edit: Or the cord looks like a gigantic stereo male to dildo male.

    DiannaoChong on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    This is the part where I would grouse about the fact that dongles and adapters are totally different, but instead I'm just going to chuckle because dongle sounds dirty and just like in real life Radio Shack never has what you came looking for.
    edit:Relevant
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/even-ceo-cant-figure-out-how-radioshack-still-in-b,2190/

    Tofystedeth on
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    rembrandtqeinsteinrembrandtqeinstein Registered User regular
    And then half a dozen sales people asked MC if he needed help and as soon as he said yes they tried to get him to change his mobile phone plan instead of answering his question.

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    Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    Why does Cortana, an AI, a fucking computer program, need boobs?
    Why, game developers, why?

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Does Radio Shack still sell that shit south of the 49th? 'Cause it was all cell phones and crappy off-brand electronics here before it went under.

    Depends on the location. There's three in my town, two of which are cell phones, overpriced batteries, and knockoff "Looks mostly like an iPad" crap. The third is tucked back in a strip mall and has all kinds of adapters and components and obscure tools you can't buy anywhere except at the wrong end of six hours experimenting with search terms on eBay. That store is one of my favorite places in the world, they have an adapter there to convert the old 1/4" stereo jacks to USB for people who want scratchy tin can on a blackboard sound without the compact size of $10 bottom shelf minispeakers from Walmart.

    Once, just playing around, I conceived of a chain of converters and adapters that would after almost twenty steps let me plug HDMI into a parallel port. It wouldn't actually do anything, but it could be done.

    Hevach on
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    Why does Cortana, an AI, a fucking computer program, need boobs?
    Why, game developers, why?
    According to what lore I've read on the Halo wiki, AI's go rampant if they're left alone with nothing to do for too long. And when an AI goes rampant they have a nasty history of attempting to murder the fuck out of all life everywhere.
    Clearly, having boobs gives them something to play with instead of going rampant and trying to wipe out all life in the known universe.
    Now, you might say that giving the AI a dick would have the same effect, to which I respond: Sure, but then the AI would never get anything else done ever.

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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Maz- wrote: »
    Why does Cortana, an AI, a fucking computer program, need boobs?
    Why, game developers, why?

    Because she's a lady (seriously, AIs in this universe are constructed from human brain imprinting), a major character, and it's easier to empathize with something human looking rather than a disembodied voice 7mLbi.gif

    Feel free to complain that she's too sexy though, I guess?

    Tarranon on
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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Maz- wrote: »
    Why does Cortana, an AI, a fucking computer program, need boobs?
    Why, game developers, why?

    Because she's a lady (seriously, AIs in this universe are constructed from human brain imprinting), a major character, and it's easier to empathize with something human looking rather than a disembodied voice 7mLbi.gif

    Feel free to complain that she's too sexy though, I guess?
    "We need our players to empathize with Cortana. What's the most empathetic character you can imagine?"
    "A supermodel wearing a glowing purple skintight jumpsuit, obviously."
    "PERFECT."

    [flash forward to Halo 4]

    "Do we want to change Cortana at all?"
    "Uh... she's pretty good but I think it would be easier to empathize with her if she had even larger boobs."

    Perhaps the message that gamers can only empathize with someone whose body proportions are slightly more realistic than a Barbie doll and who dresses in nothing except pure energy (which happens to hug her figure perfectly) is not the greatest message for a game developer to send. Unrealistic representations of the female form are indefensible when the female is A HOLOGRAM and could literally look LIKE ANYTHING and thus when she looks like a game developer's idea of the chick he'd most like to bang, it sends a less than ideal message about what women should look like if they are to be respected/empathized with/trusted/whatever.

    The second panel in this comic is fucking amazing. Radio Shack next to Forerunner architecture or whatever looks hilarious.

    edit: via Gabe's twitter, slightly bigger Cortana -

    A7HVsUhCQAIGN4Z.jpg

    TychoCelchuuu on
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Cortana is actually not that hot in Halo 4 truth be told. She has this prominent gap between her front teeth which, while excellent for being a very realistic human appearance, kind of kills the whole "sex symbol" thing for me (which I NEVER thought of Cortana as so...)

    About why she looks human, she was created by a detailed brain scan/clone from a scientist who looked like that in her youth. So Cortana's identity is that she "looks like that" on some base level. In the books, there's an AI that did not take on a human appearance because it's "not so needy about its identity" which really just means to me that it is an AI hipster and its identity deeply depends on feeling superior to everybody else.

    About the comic, yeah Chief just kinda slings her chip everywhere and it works great. It makes sense that Forerunner tech reacts to human presences based on the lore, but being perfectly designed for human computer chips? Er... why?

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    TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    @TychoCelchuuu

    I think you're conflating those two things. They made her look human so people could empathize with her.

    They made her hot because sex appeal, MAIL GAMERZZ, etc. I certainly don't think it makes it harder for male gamers to care about her, but I don't think it's what brings anyone to care when they wouldn't have before?

    But they're two separate issues. I know you're kind of joking but you seem to think I implied myself or anyone thought that her being hot makes her easier to empathize with. She doesn't need to look stunning, and if you want to have that conversation then great. There's a lot that can be said about the female form in gaming.

    Personally, I don't think Cortana is particularly offensive in a vacuum. She's smart, assertive, and her relationship with the Master Chief is one of the best platonic relationships in all of gaming and probably recent TV and Movies too. But in the context of most every lady in videogaming being supa fine, yeah it's a bit of a problem. And I wasn't aware they made her breasts bigger in Halo 4 either, that kind of sucks.

    Tarranon on
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    On the black screen
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Tarranon wrote: »
    And I wasn't aware they made her breasts bigger in Halo 4 either, that kind of sucks.

    Actually creepers on the internet proved that her boobs are slightly smaller than on promotional images from earlier in the series. This SO doesn't matter at all though, the "issue" is that she's "super hot" (which is not true) and "naked" which... her hologram should be wearing the hottest future fall fashions? Why?

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Tarranon wrote: »
    And I wasn't aware they made her breasts bigger in Halo 4 either, that kind of sucks.

    Actually creepers on the internet proved that her boobs are slightly smaller than on promotional images from earlier in the series. This SO doesn't matter at all though, the "issue" is that she's "super hot" (which is not true) and "naked" which... her hologram should be wearing the hottest future fall fashions? Why?
    Or maybe just, like, a shirt and pants? Or something? If I were a hologram that could project myself as whatever I wanted to look like, and I were a scientist, then "skintight catsuit made of light" would maybe not be my first choice. Especially if my boobs kept getting larger over time for some reason. Except in Halo 4, when they shrunk by a few pixels, although I got a facelift to make my face hotter so I guess that balances out.

    Unless... Cortana is an exhibitionist! It all makes sense now. Her behavior is much more understandable if she exists to show her increasingly sexy body off to men (and women who are into that sort of thing).
    Tarranon wrote: »
    @TychoCelchuuu

    I think you're conflating those two things. They made her look human so people could empathize with her.

    They made her hot because sex appeal, MAIL GAMERZZ, etc. I certainly don't think it makes it harder for male gamers to care about her, but I don't think it's what brings anyone to care when they wouldn't have before?

    But they're two separate issues. I know you're kind of joking but you seem to think I implied myself or anyone thought that her being hot makes her easier to empathize with. She doesn't need to look stunning, and if you want to have that conversation then great. There's a lot that can be said about the female form in gaming.

    Personally, I don't think Cortana is particularly offensive in a vacuum. She's smart, assertive, and her relationship with the Master Chief is one of the best platonic relationships in all of gaming and probably recent TV and Movies too. But in the context of most every lady in videogaming being supa fine, yeah it's a bit of a problem. And I wasn't aware they made her breasts bigger in Halo 4 either, that kind of sucks.
    Yeah, I think we basically agree. I don't have a problem with women being stereotypically "hot" like Cortana definitely is (even if people like shoeboxjeddy have such ridiculously high standards that a perfectly sculpted body with a redesigned sexier face still isn't hot because of a tiny imperfection in her teeth). I just have a problem with every portrayal of women in video games/entertainment in general being stereotypically hot. Cortana is probably fine in a vacuum (although I'd argue that making her super sexy is still pretty dumb because there's no reason for a scientist to be walking around basically naked), but the two issues are 1) every video game female has to be Lara Croft hot, even when they're a scientist AI that lives in a suit of power armor, and 2) Cortana has been getting hotter over time because if our female character is anything less than "better than supermodel" we have to fix that shit for the sequel.

    TychoCelchuuu on
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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Cortana is actually not that hot in Halo 4 truth be told. She has this prominent gap between her front teeth which, while excellent for being a very realistic human appearance, kind of kills the whole "sex symbol" thing for me (which I NEVER thought of Cortana as so...)

    About why she looks human, she was created by a detailed brain scan/clone from a scientist who looked like that in her youth. So Cortana's identity is that she "looks like that" on some base level. In the books, there's an AI that did not take on a human appearance because it's "not so needy about its identity" which really just means to me that it is an AI hipster and its identity deeply depends on feeling superior to everybody else.

    About the comic, yeah Chief just kinda slings her chip everywhere and it works great. It makes sense that Forerunner tech reacts to human presences based on the lore, but being perfectly designed for human computer chips? Er... why?

    The front tooth gap is actually a sign of beauty in many cultures and apparently also a growing trend in the fashion industry.

    Also, you're being silly. "NUH UH THE HUGE BOOB LADY ISN'T A SEX SYMBOL."

    Of COURSE she's being used as a sex symbol. If they wanted to adhere to this lore that she looks like a scientist who brain scanned in, she'd probably look like an average to moderately frumpy or overweight scientist. They didn't make her sexier because it "fit the lore," they made her sexy because young men play this game and it's good marketing.

    What is this I don't even.
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    TheIronyChefTheIronyChef Registered User regular
    Reminds me of the most facepalmable instance of this trope, when Jeff Goldblum uploads a virus to the alien mothership's control network from a Macbook in Independence Day. Presumably it was tough to install and configure Airport on a system running Garforblatt 9.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Does Radio Shack still sell that shit south of the 49th? 'Cause it was all cell phones and crappy off-brand electronics here before it went under.

    Depends on the location. There's three in my town, two of which are cell phones, overpriced batteries, and knockoff "Looks mostly like an iPad" crap. The third is tucked back in a strip mall and has all kinds of adapters and components and obscure tools you can't buy anywhere except at the wrong end of six hours experimenting with search terms on eBay. That store is one of my favorite places in the world, they have an adapter there to convert the old 1/4" stereo jacks to USB for people who want scratchy tin can on a blackboard sound without the compact size of $10 bottom shelf minispeakers from Walmart.

    Once, just playing around, I conceived of a chain of converters and adapters that would after almost twenty steps let me plug HDMI into a parallel port. It wouldn't actually do anything, but it could be done.

    They've started to make a concerted effort to reach out to "makers." The electronics section still consists of two large metal storage bins in the far back of the store, but I've noticed that they stock it better, and have started bringing in a lot more hobbyist level electronics gear.

    Anyway, the Radioshack jokes is easy, but I still laughed.

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    JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    They could at least give you the option to choose a sexy male AI hologram for those with a compatible swerve.

    It wouldn't be hard. Just put Doctor Manhattan in a Chippendale collar and tie made out of vaguely alien-looking dark blue circuitry. Boom, just enough pandering for you to act hurt and surprised when you get accused of objectifying women. Or woman-shaped constructs.

    Wait, hold on. Can we actually objectify a woman who is, in the most literal sense, already an object?

    GDdCWMm.jpg
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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    They could at least give you the option to choose a sexy male AI hologram for those with a compatible swerve.

    It wouldn't be hard. Just put Doctor Manhattan in a Chippendale collar and tie made out of vaguely alien-looking dark blue circuitry. Boom, just enough pandering for you to act hurt and surprised when you get accused of objectifying women. Or woman-shaped constructs.
    They already did "rampant male AI" in Marathon.
    Jedoc wrote: »
    Wait, hold on. Can we actually objectify a woman who is, in the most literal sense, already an object?
    Yes.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    I'm still waiting for the the Spartan armor that sports assless* chaps

    (*I know all chaps are assless)

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    Kyoka SuigetsuKyoka Suigetsu Odin gave his left eye for knowledge. I would give far more Registered User regular
    This comic is already great but reading it in chief's voice makes it a lot funnier

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    DramDram Old Salt Registered User regular
    In a recent interview with a Forbes tech blogger, one of the designers said that the AIs can wear whatever they like. A male AI on another ship apparently dresses like a wizard.

    Which really just Cortanas headless zentai suit weirder.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    I think the main problem is that that socket looks like it was made for Samus' ball form.

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    ruzkinruzkin Registered User regular
    Reminds me of the most facepalmable instance of this trope, when Jeff Goldblum uploads a virus to the alien mothership's control network from a Macbook in Independence Day. Presumably it was tough to install and configure Airport on a system running Garforblatt 9.

    Actually, a cut Independence Day scene reveals that most modern computing tech was reverse-engineered from the Roswell crash, which goes some small way towards explaining how Jeff Goldblum pulled it off. A shonky explanation, but better than none.

    g4OlSIF.jpg
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    Groosenat0rGroosenat0r http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy70Z6x00TM SkyloftRegistered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Daw! Cortana looks so cute, tiny and adorable! I could just eat her u-... On second thought I'd better stop there... But kudos to Mike for his incredibly adorable Cortana!

    Groosenat0r on
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    The front tooth gap is actually a sign of beauty in many cultures and apparently also a growing trend in the fashion industry.

    Also, you're being silly. "NUH UH THE HUGE BOOB LADY ISN'T A SEX SYMBOL."

    Of COURSE she's being used as a sex symbol. If they wanted to adhere to this lore that she looks like a scientist who brain scanned in, she'd probably look like an average to moderately frumpy or overweight scientist. They didn't make her sexier because it "fit the lore," they made her sexy because young men play this game and it's good marketing.

    Huh, didn't know that. Is it a sign of beauty in the US though (culture of main sales and where the game was made)? Because if not, shit don't matter.

    Er, her boobs are regular sized for a video game "sex symbol". Please compare to Lara Croft, every girl in Mass Effect, DOA, etc. I think she's supposed to be pretty but T&A really? I get the feeling you guys don't even play the games before you make these type of complaints. 99% of the time, she's just a voice. OH SHIT SEX SYMBOL AHOY. The other 1%, she's a tiny hologram that stays put while you run onwards. In some cutscenes she's bigger and does stuff, but it's never like 'vogue vogue, panty shot' like every other cheap video game female character.

    As far as her clothes, this is industry boilerplate 'hologram' look. Look at Tron, look at anything like this. If your response is "they are all pandering sexist things"... I guess? So every time you see a 'spiritual journey' or 'mindscape' or whatever where they don't wear clothes, you immediately think of softcore porno? I FULLY AGREE that women in video games are 99% ridiculous when it comes to things like armor choice and so on, but Halo pretty much isn't like that. Ladies in Halo:
    -Keyes' daughter, completely average looking, always depicted in military uniform
    -Halsey, looks like an average woman, getting realistically old and grey by 4
    -Kat, has that "other" look to her face that all Spartans have. I guess she has 'dat ass', but that's more of an armor design (and only internet weirdos are stopping firefights to zoom in on the butts of their comrades to check details
    -Multiplayer girl Spartans, look identical
    -Tricia Helfer's character in ODST, looks like her as far as the engine can handle. Yeah she's pretty, but she's also in uniform that isn't flattering or odd in any way.
    -Jennifer Hale's character in 4, looks like FemShep. I guess "traditionally attractive" is offensive somehow?

    If we're continuing this discussion, please raise the level of argument above "she isn't ugly, therefore it is sexism."

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    TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    "Better than Lara Croft, Mass Effect, and DOA" shows that a character is not depicted in a sexist manner the same way "better than drinking raw sewage" shows that a drink is delicious. The new TRON is kind of bad because the poor lady ends up in high heels, but TRON isn't quite as bad because everyone is dressed like that, not just the women with shapely forms. If I could see Master Chief's junk outlined in tight spandex I might not be complaining as much. And I never claimed that every woman in Halo is depicted in a sexist manner. We're just talking about Cortana.

    But honestly if these pictures don't make the point for you then this probably isn't a discussion we can have because we're just on two completely different pages. You look at the pictures and see "better than Lara Croft" and I see "obviously designed to pander directly to the male gaze at the expense of her dignity and characterization." If that's not sexism then not much is.

    Cortana_thumb.jpg
    cortana599pxbodyimghalo3.jpg
    Cortana.jpg

    edit: Jesus Christ, she has huge boobs and a perfect ass! How is this even contestable? This is like Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist in The World is Not Enough! We have a female character who's a scientist, so what should she look like? Well obviously a porn star. And what should she dress like? Wait, dress? You're saying you want her to wear clothes? That's bullshit! Make her naked! But no nipples, that would get us an AO rating.

    TychoCelchuuu on
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    VoranthVoranth MI NOMBRE, POR CIERTO ES DONTÉ!Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    So it's agreed: All video game characters from now on must be ugly.

    Comic's great, we've all been in the Chiefs situation before! Although maybe not while stranded on an alien planet in the distant future.

    Voranth on
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    PS4: Voranth
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    RokiyoRokiyo Registered User regular
    It is somewhat offensive to assume that intelligent women should be sexually unappealing or out of shape. Besides, regardless of how the original human scientist looked, it is entirely plausible that even if she was overweight or unattractive, that she could have wished she looked like a stereotypical model. As an AI, she could well be playing out subconscious impulses from a previous life.

    Also, it's probably about time we stop pretending that only women get hypersexualised or objectified in video games. There are no shortage of video games out there that feature tall, extremely muscular male protagonists with chiselled jaw lines and piercing eyes. In the very same game we are discussing right now, we have the other primary protagnist himself: Master Chief. While not brazenly displaying bulging muscles, he is still not only extremely tall and broad-shouldered, but he is also presented as the ultimate alpha male and warrior. While women are often harshly judged on their appearance (likely due to a male's primitive instinct to select mates on the basis of their apparent fertility), men are equally often harshly judged by their social dominance (likely due to a female's primitive instinct to select mates on the basis of their apparent ability to provide and protect).

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    BuzzwordsBuzzwords Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    i never thought of cortana as even POTENTIALLY sexy until this thread. she was like my sister or my mom or something... just completely out of play.

    though i do see it i guess, she is shaped that way.. but she's also six inches tall, semi-transparent, blue, and spends 99% of the game as a disembodied voice in your head?

    i would file this as one of those battles not worth picking. but i guess it's really a personal prism thing here. i see cortana as a much lighter shade of grey than say, the camera in mass effect 2 suddenly exploring bold new positions and angles whenever you had a cutscene with miranda. or how the only way to solve jacks psychosis was to hump it out of her. (i may be exaggerating but did anybody else notice that? there didn't seem to be a real platonic resolution for her? everybody else seemed to be happy and at peace regardless of being touched by my magic stick or not.)


    light enough to not bother me.


    someone mentioned "not as bad as tomb raider" meant "not as bad as raw sewage" but there's a LOT of things better than raw sewage. i feel like i do when i drink tap and don't notice/care until someone feels the need to point it out because they have some grudge for or against bottled water "oh my god your drinking tap water, gross!" or "see, you can't even tell the difference. why do they sell bottled water?!"

    i'm just over here slaking my thirst for sci-fi shootery action... and now it apparently means something?

    Buzzwords on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    this sure is a conversation

    my only problem with Halo 4's Cortana is that she has toes

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    There are plenty of female videogame characters who are not "ugly" but are also not stripperific magazine cover models.

    Chell, Alex Vance, that huntress from the new Assassin's Creed (just off the top of my head) manage to make do with being more than 50% clothed.

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    DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    I'm not terribly bothered by her appearance, sexiness and sexism are two different things and they get conflated waaay too often. There seems to be a general cultural trend of infantilizing heterosexual male sexuality, and while they're hardly some kind of downtrodden, disadvantaged group, sexual repression is never particularly healthy.

    What did strike me as sexist from the little of Halo 4 I've seen is the way Cortana needfully, weakly whispered "I need you" in the intro: she's a super powerful AI! She should blast some of those guys out of the airlock and tell say "let's do this" like an equal, not...that. Ugh.

    In short, sexism to me is treating woman like they are less able than men, not pretending like sexiness isn't inheritable enjoyable. It is. Get over it.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    the idea that "sexy to me" = "universally inherently enjoyable, get over it" is pretty much the main problem when it comes to sexism acting as a damper for non-heterosexual-males trying to enjoy videogames (using their own definition of what "enjoyable" means).

    KalTorak on
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    FlakesFlakes Registered User regular
    I always hate it when people say "I remember when this comic used to be about video games," because serious/multi-part/current event comics are a nice change of pace, but uh...

    ...I'm really liking these video game comics ¬.¬

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    The Good Doctor TranThe Good Doctor Tran Registered User regular
    edited November 2012
    Darlan wrote: »
    In short, sexism to me is treating woman like they are less able than men, not pretending like sexiness isn't inheritable enjoyable. It is. Get over it.

    Look, I'm not even going to dive into the Cortana discussion, but if this is your definition of sexism you're going to want to reevaluate some things before presenting it to a broader audience and expecting people to take it seriously. Targeting ability as a primary heuristic doesn't touch on objectification at all, which is the complaint people have about this kind of media.

    The Good Doctor Tran on
    LoL & Spiral Knights & MC & SMNC: Carrington - Origin: CarringtonPlus - Steam: skdrtran
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