At least Marvel has shown signs of being more female-friendly over the last year or so, what with redesigning some of their more terrible costumes and producing more books headlined by female characters.
DC currently has almost double the amount female headlined books over marvel. Not to mention that a good portion of them wearing better outfits. Not much better what with starfire's nipple covers and power girl's new suit apparently being made of wax paper. I guess what I'm trying to say is neither company should be pointing fingers.
DC has, to my knowledge:
World's Finest
Catwoman
Birds of Prey
Batgirl
Supergirl
Wonder Woman
Katana, which is a mini.
Marvel has
Journey into Mystery
Captain Marvel
X-Men
Red She-Hulk
Uncanny X-Force
Fearless Defenders
FF
That's not really almost double
And all of Marvel's female cast got pretty great and not cheesecake designs with Marvel Now
Katana isn't a mini.
World's Finest
Catwoman
Batwoman
Batgirl
Wonder Woman
Birds of Prey
Supergirl
Katana
Sword of Sorcery
Plus female-heavy books like
The Ravagers
Demon Knights
I, Vampire
Justice League Dark
and recent minis/canceled series like Voodoo, Huntress, The Phantom Lady, Silk Spectre and three of the four National Comics one-shots
Now, are most of them good? No. But they're there?
Dial H is also female heavy. 50% of the main cast is an asskicking grandma. It's also pretty origional and entertaining.
Wonder Woman and Batwoman are both easily among the very best books DC is putting out and Sword of Sorcery is really good and keeps getting better every issue.
With regards to that black writer thing, I've noticed it's become less about creators as in writers/artists and more just writers. Which is actually a good thing I think, as you've made enough inroads that you now have to qualify your statement to half of what it was. And I read some of those comments on the CA article (which I shouldn't have) and was just amazed to see the idea of not caring about race now being a bad thing. You just can't win sometimes.
The writers are much better at highlighting their profiles, and to a lot of people the artists are still little more than pencil monkeys. But I've walked around artist alleys and they're still very caucasian heavy. In part this is because many of the non-whites also happen to be foreigners, which also brings up the discussion of mercenary tendencies in hiring artists vs. writers.
It also applies to the conversation about character representations. The artist usually serves on the back half of creation, and so it's the writers who are filling the page with the actual characters, and so there is the issue of writing what one knows/sees with the exception of those few who go out of their way to write outside of their comfort and familiarity (and what happens when that backfires).
As for that David Brothers McDuffie page, it seems rather combative and hostile, and feels less about McDuffie and more that thing people do with any kind of art. "I was a fan of Journey since Look Into The Future, you just started liking them with Infinity, phony"
It's pretty clear what it's about: the fact that people don't get to define their own story after they're gone. It's the human equivalent of how little author intent matters once something is published. While he was alive, he could articulate his own life and one could say that the equivalent is that life is a work in progress. Now that he's dead, the only story of McDuffie (or anyone) is in the hands of other people.
That said, this month is when tokens get trotted out or dragged up or whatever to be shown off; something that is arguably more about showing how enlightened and special the teller is than the actual accomplishments of said person. In his case, McDuffie's relationship with DC in particular was complicated. But given DC's (and other companies') practices, it's not out of the question to be suspect of their motives.
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." — The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
I'd like to write a Krypto comic, but I'm not going to have it be one where the story is about Superman pulling a Michael Vick. I'd just decline until I can get better terms by raising my status as a writer (as he wrote he seems to have something worthwhile in the pipeline). Don't care about your mom being a feminist or all the rallies you went to, you chose to write a comic with a pretty terrible outcome. I don't wish ill on the guy at all but it's kind of hard to take the apology when it's a more carefully worded "you didn't get what I was going for, sorry you misunderstood"
Sorry, but that's something VERY easy to say when you're not in the situation yourself.
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
I'd like to write a Krypto comic, but I'm not going to have it be one where the story is about Superman pulling a Michael Vick. I'd just decline until I can get better terms by raising my status as a writer (as he wrote he seems to have something worthwhile in the pipeline). Don't care about your mom being a feminist or all the rallies you went to, you chose to write a comic with a pretty terrible outcome. I don't wish ill on the guy at all but it's kind of hard to take the apology when it's a more carefully worded "you didn't get what I was going for, sorry you misunderstood"
Sorry, but that's something VERY easy to say when you're not in the situation yourself.
At my old job I was in a situation to get a cushy account with one of the dozen different city departments which would mean a relatively consistent customer, but it came with so many strings attached and unnecessary paperwork we passed on it because it would have just been too much for us to deal with at the time and wasn't worth the initial look of big cash monies.
If the money was so great you couldn't refuse despite the premise of the comic, that's fine, just don't turn around and apologize for it. I'd have much preferred the guy to say "I wrote it, it sucked because I had to kill Lois that way, but I made a lot of money because of it to make my own creator work or whatever."
It is quite easy to say when you aren't in his shoes. What do you mean you'd rather he didn't apologize and pointed out how much money he made? That's not true, if he'd done that I bet you'd be calling him an asshole right now.
Besides from my understanding you don't exactly become a millionaire from writing a Superman comic. Also how many jobs can a freelancer reject before nobody calls them anymore. Another thing is you say he could have rejected it and waited for a better chance as if it's a given that that chance would ever eventuate.
BitD PbP Character Volstrom
+1
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
It is quite easy to say when you aren't in his shoes. What do you mean you'd rather he didn't apologize and pointed out how much money he made? That's not true, if he'd done that I bet you'd be calling him an asshole right now.
Besides from my understanding you don't exactly become a millionaire from writing a Superman comic. Also how many jobs can a freelancer reject before nobody calls them anymore. Another thing is you say he could have rejected it and waited for a better chance as if it's a given that that chance would ever eventuate.
Right, we don't know if he would have gotten another chance to write Superman as of right now, so he wants to write a bad comic while he can or parlay future experience into having a better shot at a story he could manage. There's pros and cons to everything, but the way the guy tried to apologize was, like Munch wrote, having your cake and eating it too.
I don't have a problem with someone saying they did something just for a paycheck, work is work sometimes, as I can rationalize that a lot more than loving a character but having to knowingly do something stupid to the character. I don't know how to describe it, but someone writing a bad story but thinking it's good is a lot less irritating than knowing he would be forced to write a bad story and he still went through with it.
I'm kind of curious about who told him "You can change the why and the how as much as you want, but this comic absolutely has to have Superman murdering a pregnant Lois Lane."
I'm kind of curious about who told him "You can change the why and the how as much as you want, but this comic absolutely has to have Superman murdering a pregnant Lois Lane."
Yeah, basic story beats are one of the earliest things they lock down in development, I think?
0
Werewolf2000adSuckers, I know exactly what went wrong.Registered Userregular
Yes, the blame at DC, such as it is, lies ultimately with whoever it was in Licensing/Publishing/Editorial that, when NetherRealm handed them the proposed backstory to their great new DC comics fighting game for approval, didn't tell them to fuck off and not come back until they had something better.
I was recently reading the old Ms. Marvel run from the.. '60's? And at one point her psychiatrist boyfriend totally gets murdered by one of her enemies. Complete man-in-fridge moment. It makes me wonder if the problem isn't that this is happening at all (I mean, after all, a viillian going after a family member or loved one has been a trope for as long as people have told stories. And it makes too much damn sense for a badguy to not do so.), but that the industry is so overwhelmingly filled with straight, male superheroes that any invocation of this trope is going to have a 90% chance of landing on a woman. Less of a case of aiming for women and more of a case of women being the highest probable targets.
'course the only solution to that is to involve more non-straight male superheroes, and that's not something that can just "happen."
Disclaimer, I'm a nerdy white guy, so it's not like I know shit about shit regarding women's issues. I'm probably missing the point.
I was recently reading the old Ms. Marvel run from the.. '60's? And at one point her psychiatrist boyfriend totally gets murdered by one of her enemies. Complete man-in-fridge moment. It makes me wonder if the problem isn't that this is happening at all (I mean, after all, a viillian going after a family member or loved one has been a trope for as long as people have told stories. And it makes too much damn sense for a badguy to not do so.), but that the industry is so overwhelmingly filled with straight, male superheroes that any invocation of this trope is going to have a 90% chance of landing on a woman. Less of a case of aiming for women and more of a case of women being the highest probable targets.
'course the only solution to that is to involve more non-straight male superheroes, and that's not something that can just "happen."
Disclaimer, I'm a nerdy white guy, so it's not like I know shit about shit regarding women's issues. I'm probably missing the point.
You understand the problem*. Its a similar issue with gay and minority super-heroes being killed off. I've read the issue you're talking about, Mystique really did a number on her boyfriend. I was almost impressed by how cold blooded nature of the murder, like how she posed as Carol so he thought he was being killed by her. Chilling stuff.
* another factor is the sexual implications about how they die (re: Deathstroke killing Phantom Lady during Infinite Crisis)
Harry Dresden on
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Remember how Kirkman introduced a gay superhero in marvel then killed him off? And only realized what he did was bad after the fact?
"Freedom Ring was always planned as an inexperienced hero who would get beaten up constantly and probably die. I wanted to comment on the fact that most superheroes get their powers and are okay at it... and that's not how life works. During working on the book, I was also noticing that most gay characters... are all about being gay. Straight characters are well-rounded characters who like chicks. So I wanted to do a well-rounded character who just happened to like dudes. Then I decided to combine the two ideas. In hindsight, yeah, killing a gay character is no good when there are so few of them... but I really had only the best of intentions in mind."
"Frankly, with the SMALL amount of gay characters in comics in general, and how unfortunate the portrayals have been thus far, whether intentional or not—I completely understand the backlash on the death of Freedom Ring, regardless of my intentions. If I had it to do all over again... I wouldn't kill him. I regret it more and more as time goes on. I got rid of what?[sic] 20% of the gay characters at Marvel by killing off this ONE character. I just never took that stuff into consideration while I was writing."
Am I the only one who finds the name freedom ring to be pretty funny for a gay character? There should have been an intervention like when they told Billy that the media would have a field day with the ASSgardian
BitD PbP Character Volstrom
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Am I the only one who finds the name freedom ring to be pretty funny for a gay character? There should have been an intervention like when they told Billy that the media would have a field day with the ASSgardian
Am I the only one who finds the name freedom ring to be pretty funny for a gay character? There should have been an intervention like when they told Billy that the media would have a field day with the ASSgardian
"Freedom Ring was always planned as an inexperienced hero who would get beaten up constantly and probably die. I wanted to comment on the fact that most superheroes get their powers and are okay at it... and that's not how life works. During working on the book, I was also noticing that most gay characters... are all about being gay. Straight characters are well-rounded characters who like chicks. So I wanted to do a well-rounded character who just happened to like dudes. Then I decided to combine the two ideas. In hindsight, yeah, killing a gay character is no good when there are so few of them... but I really had only the best of intentions in mind."
"Frankly, with the SMALL amount of gay characters in comics in general, and how unfortunate the portrayals have been thus far, whether intentional or not—I completely understand the backlash on the death of Freedom Ring, regardless of my intentions. If I had it to do all over again... I wouldn't kill him. I regret it more and more as time goes on. I got rid of what?[sic] 20% of the gay characters at Marvel by killing off this ONE character. I just never took that stuff into consideration while I was writing."
I'm actually less surprised that Kirkman was unaware of the message he might be sending by killing off a gay comic book character than I am that he was also apparently unaware that he was essentially writing an updated version of The Greatest American Hero.
GOD DAMN IT NY Post! maybe try not to spoil big events in your headlines! Oh sorry my fault, the only time you mention comics is when someone dies or is gay.
Hey there you are thread! And ya , that NY Post stuff kinda stomped on my morning. I'm almost less mad over the spoiler itself, than I am that it was so overly spoiled.
Posts
Katana isn't a mini.
World's Finest
Catwoman
Batwoman
Batgirl
Wonder Woman
Birds of Prey
Supergirl
Katana
Sword of Sorcery
Plus female-heavy books like
The Ravagers
Demon Knights
I, Vampire
Justice League Dark
and recent minis/canceled series like Voodoo, Huntress, The Phantom Lady, Silk Spectre and three of the four National Comics one-shots
Now, are most of them good? No. But they're there?
Wonder Woman and Batwoman are both easily among the very best books DC is putting out and Sword of Sorcery is really good and keeps getting better every issue.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
I think this is a dumb opinion
I think they are making dumb decisions but not out of spite or malice
It also applies to the conversation about character representations. The artist usually serves on the back half of creation, and so it's the writers who are filling the page with the actual characters, and so there is the issue of writing what one knows/sees with the exception of those few who go out of their way to write outside of their comfort and familiarity (and what happens when that backfires).
It's pretty clear what it's about: the fact that people don't get to define their own story after they're gone. It's the human equivalent of how little author intent matters once something is published. While he was alive, he could articulate his own life and one could say that the equivalent is that life is a work in progress. Now that he's dead, the only story of McDuffie (or anyone) is in the hands of other people.
That said, this month is when tokens get trotted out or dragged up or whatever to be shown off; something that is arguably more about showing how enlightened and special the teller is than the actual accomplishments of said person. In his case, McDuffie's relationship with DC in particular was complicated. But given DC's (and other companies') practices, it's not out of the question to be suspect of their motives.
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." — The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Sorry, but that's something VERY easy to say when you're not in the situation yourself.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/50eb5a97c32b0aca6a833e820f12b648/tumblr_mhrwrbMZ0t1qzp8pbo2_1280.jpg
too damn big
At my old job I was in a situation to get a cushy account with one of the dozen different city departments which would mean a relatively consistent customer, but it came with so many strings attached and unnecessary paperwork we passed on it because it would have just been too much for us to deal with at the time and wasn't worth the initial look of big cash monies.
If the money was so great you couldn't refuse despite the premise of the comic, that's fine, just don't turn around and apologize for it. I'd have much preferred the guy to say "I wrote it, it sucked because I had to kill Lois that way, but I made a lot of money because of it to make my own creator work or whatever."
Besides from my understanding you don't exactly become a millionaire from writing a Superman comic. Also how many jobs can a freelancer reject before nobody calls them anymore. Another thing is you say he could have rejected it and waited for a better chance as if it's a given that that chance would ever eventuate.
Right, we don't know if he would have gotten another chance to write Superman as of right now, so he wants to write a bad comic while he can or parlay future experience into having a better shot at a story he could manage. There's pros and cons to everything, but the way the guy tried to apologize was, like Munch wrote, having your cake and eating it too.
I don't have a problem with someone saying they did something just for a paycheck, work is work sometimes, as I can rationalize that a lot more than loving a character but having to knowingly do something stupid to the character. I don't know how to describe it, but someone writing a bad story but thinking it's good is a lot less irritating than knowing he would be forced to write a bad story and he still went through with it.
His editor?
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
'course the only solution to that is to involve more non-straight male superheroes, and that's not something that can just "happen."
Disclaimer, I'm a nerdy white guy, so it's not like I know shit about shit regarding women's issues. I'm probably missing the point.
You understand the problem*. Its a similar issue with gay and minority super-heroes being killed off. I've read the issue you're talking about, Mystique really did a number on her boyfriend. I was almost impressed by how cold blooded nature of the murder, like how she posed as Carol so he thought he was being killed by her. Chilling stuff.
* another factor is the sexual implications about how they die (re: Deathstroke killing Phantom Lady during Infinite Crisis)
that was sad.
What hero was this?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Are we only killing straight superheroes now? Is that a thing?
His name's Freedom Ring, not Circle Jerk.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
( Mostly cause there's almost never a half assed excuse to post this song anywhere rofl)
I'm actually less surprised that Kirkman was unaware of the message he might be sending by killing off a gay comic book character than I am that he was also apparently unaware that he was essentially writing an updated version of The Greatest American Hero.