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Airing Of Grievances In Public Conversation Form (Potentially NSFW or NSF56K)

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I don't think the image is overly offensive

    it's just shitty

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    CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    *Looks at the image*

    This is an issue?

    One that generally upsets and bothers people? I mean really?

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Cade wrote: »
    *Looks at the image*

    This is an issue?

    One that generally upsets and bothers people? I mean really?

    Depicting women as sex objects is a hot button for a lot of people right now.

    Who knew?

    nightmarenny on
    Quire.jpg
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    But that's not really what that image does? I mean I guess she has kind of a flirty expression, but she's not overly sexualized there. It's just a dude drawing a pretty lady.

    It's not a particularly good drawing of a pretty lady, and it's kind of tonally jarring with Carol but that's about all I can find wrong with it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Cade wrote: »
    *Looks at the image*

    This is an issue?

    One that generally upsets and bothers people? I mean really?

    Depicting women as sex objects is a hot button for a lot of people right now.

    Who knew?

    If going by that picture is the criteria for depicting women as sex objects the situation is more like people projecting their own issues onto things where none existed or there had been very little because every detail is scrutinized and demonized as being offensive.

    Cade on
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I don't like dismissing complaints about this sort of thing and think "you're only offended because you're looking for reasons to be offended" is a bullshit argument 99% of the time, but you're riight that this isn't as ridiculously cheesecake/sexualized as a lot of comic art

    that said, spinal contortions to be able to show off the T and the A in the same picture are a tired as shit comic art trope, and Carol isn't really the type of character this sort of shit works for. It's borderline, at best. Also ugly.

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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I ended up coming around to Avengers Arena by the end, and I have to give Hopeless lots of credit for creating a bunch of awesome new characters who'll hopefully be sticking around, but the ending sort of left me cold.
    I just don't like the idea of the heroes deciding to hide what happened. I'm fine with maybe a few of them wanting to just deny it, but it's odd that there would be no conflict between them about how best to handle the fallout, especially after they'd had so much trouble getting along before. Also, I don't think anyone really made a strong case for lying, especially since they all would have known that Arcade was recording the event and would be able to broadcast the footage at any time.

    Coupled with the final scene of Arcade toasting to his own victory, it felt like Hopeless was going out of his way to make Arcade the obvious winner of the whole situation. That's fine as an endpoint, but when the heroes spend their final moments in the story just failing to undercut the villain at all I feel like their ending is being sacrificed for the sake of his.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I'd have liked more of a sense of closure for the heroes and their personal stories rather than making those last several pages about how badly Arcade managed to fuck everyone over in the end.

    That said, I get that this the end of a season rather than the end of a complete story, and that the conclusion might just be meant to make that fact clear.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I agree with Robos entirely (except I didn't much like the rest of the book either)

    Also, what the fuck was with that Sun Tzu quote? It didn't make any sense with the context of the story and came off as some kind of attempt at adding gravitas that failed miserably.

    Furu on
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    I don't like dismissing complaints about this sort of thing and think "you're only offended because you're looking for reasons to be offended" is a bullshit argument 99% of the time, but you're riight that this isn't as ridiculously cheesecake/sexualized as a lot of comic art

    that said, spinal contortions to be able to show off the T and the A in the same picture are a tired as shit comic art trope, and Carol isn't really the type of character this sort of shit works for. It's borderline, at best. Also ugly.

    I don't like dismissing complaints either, but when people are having extreme reactions to what is overall a pretty fucking harmless (if ugly) pinup, it creates a dissonance because suddenly people talking about that image and people talking about something that's actually gross sound almost if not exactly the same.

    The message gets lost in the noise.

    It's the same reason the Hawkeye thing whose name I can't even remember became a self parody, because while it started as a smart and funny critque of the portrayal of women in comics, the tumblr hordes lost all perspective and quickly started plugging him into any piece of superhero art with an attractive lady in it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    I can agree with that

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I ended up coming around to Avengers Arena by the end, and I have to give Hopeless lots of credit for creating a bunch of awesome new characters who'll hopefully be sticking around, but the ending sort of left me cold.
    I just don't like the idea of the heroes deciding to hide what happened. I'm fine with maybe a few of them wanting to just deny it, but it's odd that there would be no conflict between them about how best to handle the fallout, especially after they'd had so much trouble getting along before. Also, I don't think anyone really made a strong case for lying, especially since they all would have known that Arcade was recording the event and would be able to broadcast the footage at any time.

    Coupled with the final scene of Arcade toasting to his own victory, it felt like Hopeless was going out of his way to make Arcade the obvious winner of the whole situation. That's fine as an endpoint, but when the heroes spend their final moments in the story just failing to undercut the villain at all I feel like their ending is being sacrificed for the sake of his.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I'd have liked more of a sense of closure for the heroes and their personal stories rather than making those last several pages about how badly Arcade managed to fuck everyone over in the end.

    That said, I get that this the end of a season rather than the end of a complete story, and that the conclusion might just be meant to make that fact clear.

    I kind of like how they ended it. They're kids and it's more interesting to me that they clearly made the worst decision coming out of this - which is a reality for a bunch of young people. It also serves to set up Avengers Undercover a bit better also.

    I loved that whole series. I'm glad I didn't dismiss it like a lot of other people.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    It'd be interesting if it was motivated by their characterization, but it seems to me like it's just a matter of convenience for Hopeless.
    The fact that they lied will make it easier for the public to swallow Arcade's edited footage, which will probably portray them all as villains so that they can go undercover in the second series.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Wait what
    You're assuming Arcade is editing the footage, as opposed to just showing what actually happened that the kids lied about. They look pretty dang bad with no editing required, doubly so since they lied.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Wait what
    You're assuming Arcade is editing the footage, as opposed to just showing what actually happened that the kids lied about. They look pretty dang bad with no editing required, doubly so since they lied.
    Arcade mentioned the possibility of editing the footage to make people look better or worse in a previous issue, so it'd be weird if he released the raw footage now instead of making more mischief like he suggested he could.

    Also, we already know that the follow-up to this story has everyone going undercover as villains. For that to work, you'd pretty much need to edit the footage to make them look like killers.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    Nah, interviews about Undercover sound more like the survivors are being looked at exactly how they were afraid they would: as victims.
    They also didn't really lie about anything, they just refused to speak about it. Which makes them look even more traumatized once people see the footage.

    So everyone sees these PTSD cases that are also probably not able to readjust to thir old lives. And worse, are handled with kid gloves by the superhero community in general which probably makes things even harder for them.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I would also like to say how rad it is Hopeless gets to launch an ongoing starring 3 original (basically) characters and one C-Lister

    CYpGAPn.png
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Cade wrote: »
    *Looks at the image*

    This is an issue?

    One that generally upsets and bothers people? I mean really?

    Depicting women as sex objects is a hot button for a lot of people right now.

    Who knew?

    I don't know where else to post this.
    MardiGrasSpecial_zps12f59447.png

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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    Mark Millar

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Don't forget that whenever the wasp size-changed when not wearing her costume, her clothes didn't shrink with her. So much side-boob and side-ass.

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    I really, really hate that version of Hulk

    Ultimates 1 and 2 are kinda good, but I can never bring myself to recommend them to anyone because of the horrible millarisms

    Steam: turamb | Origin: Turamb | 3DS: 3411-1109-4537 | NNID: Turambar | Warframe(PC): Turamb
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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    whenever I see somone recommend the Ultimates to someone who's new to comics, it makes me want to chokeslam them


    I have seen it happen way too many times

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    If we are going to talk about Millard rampant insulting sexism we should focus on the moment in the chitari story with hawkeye.

    Quire.jpg
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    UnbrokenEvaUnbrokenEva HIGH ON THE WIRE BUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered User regular
    or you know

    all of Kick-Ass

    and that part in Nemesis

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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    It would probably be easier to just list the non sexist and non offensive things Millar has done:




    .

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    his run on the Superman animated series tie-in comic was pretty good

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    1985 is amazing

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Yeah 1985 is fantastic

    Superior is also really good and the only offensive thibg is that Lenil Yu draws the Lois Lane analogue obnoxiously super busty

    CYpGAPn.png
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    I can't recall him not drawing a woman in the equivalent of a rocket bra.

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    valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    It would probably be easier to just list the non sexist and non offensive things Millar has done:
    .

    Red Son?
    Civil War?
    Old Man Logan?

    valiance on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    This is pretty clearly in reference to his career after Grant Morrison stopped mentoring him or reining him in or whatever the hell he did to keep Millar from writing utter dreck.

    Crimsondude on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Civil War was shit but not sexist or whatever, I'll give you that

    Old Man Logan had Bruce Banner rape Jenny because she was the only person he could have children with so

    yeah

    no

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    valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    the above are both fair posts.

    I think perhaps despite himself Millar has done some really good stuff. Wait. What is probably more accurate is that Millar consistently works with really good artists (JG Jones, Quitely, Hitch, McNiven), which allows me to sometimes overlook his writing

    valiance on
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Old Man Logan also had, ugh, Spider-Bitch which was the stupidest, most unnecessary thing ever.

    And Luke Cage suddenly becoming an evil, sadistic gang lord who wears a lot of bling seemed a liiiiil racist.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    That was supposed to be Luke Cage? I thought it was just an upstart.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I am pretty sure it is meant to be Cage? I might be wrong though I haven't read it in years.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    Nah, interviews about Undercover sound more like the survivors are being looked at exactly how they were afraid they would: as victims.
    They also didn't really lie about anything, they just refused to speak about it. Which makes them look even more traumatized once people see the footage.

    So everyone sees these PTSD cases that are also probably not able to readjust to thir old lives. And worse, are handled with kid gloves by the superhero community in general which probably makes things even harder for them.

    So the answer to this is to put them undercover in the Masters of Evil clearly

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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    Nah, interviews about Undercover sound more like the survivors are being looked at exactly how they were afraid they would: as victims.
    They also didn't really lie about anything, they just refused to speak about it. Which makes them look even more traumatized once people see the footage.

    So everyone sees these PTSD cases that are also probably not able to readjust to thir old lives. And worse, are handled with kid gloves by the superhero community in general which probably makes things even harder for them.

    Those interviews are from before the last issue, though, and make no reference to Arcade's actions at all for obvious reasons.

    I'm still expecting it to play out the way I think it will.
    After all, simply having PTSD isn't enough to qualify you for the Masters of Evil. People have to actually think you're, you know, evil.

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    ElderlycrawfishElderlycrawfish Registered User regular
    Furu wrote: »
    Nah, interviews about Undercover sound more like the survivors are being looked at exactly how they were afraid they would: as victims.
    They also didn't really lie about anything, they just refused to speak about it. Which makes them look even more traumatized once people see the footage.

    So everyone sees these PTSD cases that are also probably not able to readjust to thir old lives. And worse, are handled with kid gloves by the superhero community in general which probably makes things even harder for them.

    So the answer to this is to put them undercover in the Masters of Evil clearly

    The general idea is that they put themselves in that scenario, or find themselves there and take it as a way to prove that they aren't broken messes I guess. Its not like Captain America thought putting traumatized kids in a supervillain country was a great idea or anything.

    I'd bet that part of the whole thing is also to get to Arcade or something but it probably gets complicated along the way.

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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Old Man Logan also had, ugh, Spider-Bitch which was the stupidest, most unnecessary thing ever.

    And Luke Cage suddenly becoming an evil, sadistic gang lord who wears a lot of bling seemed a liiiiil racist.

    Even if it wasn't Cage, he still hit all the other tropes of a stereotypical black gangsta.

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    SinogueSinogue Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Old Man Logan also had, ugh, Spider-Bitch which was the stupidest, most unnecessary thing ever.

    And Luke Cage suddenly becoming an evil, sadistic gang lord who wears a lot of bling seemed a liiiiil racist.

    Even if it wasn't Cage, he still hit all the other tropes of a stereotypical black gangsta.

    In his defense, if the character was supposed to be a "gangsta," said people aren't exactly known for being subtle in the way that they embrace the worst stereotypes about themselves.

This discussion has been closed.