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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody here is trying to do that. But you can't argue that there aren't builds that are more support-heavy than others. I mean, there's a big difference between playing my thief in dungeons, who primarily does damage backed up with support from traps, venoms, combos, and the like, and my engineer armed with an elixir gun and a turret-heavy build. Sure, she does damage, but she's most useful in the healing, debuffing, and CC that she does.

    That's fine but its a long way from "Looking for 1 more for fractals, need Guardian" - which I have honestly seen. People seem convinced that somehow the guardian is the most "support / healery" of the classes, which just flat out isn't true. From my understanding a mantra based mesmer outputs the most healing to a group possible, and even that isn't enough to keep folks up if they aren't dodging and avoiding attacks.

    Roles are important, and anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. But forcing classes into roles is just mad - my Mesmer can outtank warriors and guardians with the right spec and build and bosses.

    actually, the class people should be looking for in fractals is mesmers. A mesmer is leagues more important than any other class in speeding up fractals, and they're nothing anybody can do that they can't also do.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody here is trying to do that. But you can't argue that there aren't builds that are more support-heavy than others. I mean, there's a big difference between playing my thief in dungeons, who primarily does damage backed up with support from traps, venoms, combos, and the like, and my engineer armed with an elixir gun and a turret-heavy build. Sure, she does damage, but she's most useful in the healing, debuffing, and CC that she does.

    That's fine but its a long way from "Looking for 1 more for fractals, need Guardian" - which I have honestly seen. People seem convinced that somehow the guardian is the most "support / healery" of the classes, which just flat out isn't true. From my understanding a mantra based mesmer outputs the most healing to a group possible, and even that isn't enough to keep folks up if they aren't dodging and avoiding attacks.

    Roles are important, and anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. But forcing classes into roles is just mad - my Mesmer can outtank warriors and guardians with the right spec and build and bosses.

    I've out-tanked the rest of my group as an elementalist before, just because D/D can be constantly moving while unloading.

    What you're doing is not tanking, it's called "Being a great elementalist".

    The problem is statements like this lead people to believe that "OMG, I want to be an elementalist tank!"

  • Maledict66Maledict66 Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    actually, the class people should be looking for in fractals is mesmers. A mesmer is leagues more important than any other class in speeding up fractals, and they're nothing anybody can do that they can't also do.

    Care to share some of the tips? Other than using portals to help people out who fall down the jumping puzzle, and the occasional lucky use of Feedback I'm not sure what extra I bring beyond my stunning good looks and hilarious illusions.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Huggles wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Huggles wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily say that any class is more suited to healing that any other. I know for certain there are also crazy healing builds for necros and engineers, for example.

    I'd be interested to see a necro one that was much good. Scepter-bombing is wearing thin.

    This is the core of the build. Essentially, you have a fast-recharge GTAoE regen on the staff, the heal skill is a long-lasting pulsing GTAoE heal, and you drop into DS every 34s or so to blast off Life Transfer for AoE damage that restores around 2k health to the five nearest allies over ten pulses thanks to Blood Magic VI. Sadly, gone are the days where the skill had no limits as to how many allies/enemies it would affect, which was hilarious in wuvwuv zergs. You can use pretty much whatever you want around that core build, so long as you stack heavy healing power in your gear somehow.

    Personally, I go more into wells, taking Blood Magic VIII and Death Magic IV and a selection of wells, typically Corruption and Suffering and either Power or Darkness depending on how important condition removal is at the time.

    I'm not altogether sure the Curses end of that is necessary, but I will take your word on Life Transfer and give it a shot. Seems to me like Death Into Life might make more of a difference than being able to throw wells.
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    actually, the class people should be looking for in fractals is mesmers. A mesmer is leagues more important than any other class in speeding up fractals, and they're nothing anybody can do that they can't also do.

    Care to share some of the tips? Other than using portals to help people out who fall down the jumping puzzle, and the occasional lucky use of Feedback I'm not sure what extra I bring beyond my stunning good looks and hilarious illusions.

    Time Warp, off the top of my not-too-familiar-with-Mesmer head. Mesmers are also alarmingly durable.

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Mainly portal. Second time warp, then honorable mention arcane thievery.

  • Who-PsydWho-Psyd Registered User regular
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    actually, the class people should be looking for in fractals is mesmers. A mesmer is leagues more important than any other class in speeding up fractals, and they're nothing anybody can do that they can't also do.

    Care to share some of the tips? Other than using portals to help people out who fall down the jumping puzzle, and the occasional lucky use of Feedback I'm not sure what extra I bring beyond my stunning good looks and hilarious illusions.

    Portal is great for Swamp and one part of Colossus. Feedback is the best damage you can get on Dredge Powersuit if you manage to use it on the Bomb Attack while he is debuffed. Mimic can save you from Harpy Knockback. Arcane Thievery is just hilarious on the Dredge, even better with Signet of Inspiration.

    Mesmer just makes the annoying levels less annoying and or faster.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody here is trying to do that. But you can't argue that there aren't builds that are more support-heavy than others. I mean, there's a big difference between playing my thief in dungeons, who primarily does damage backed up with support from traps, venoms, combos, and the like, and my engineer armed with an elixir gun and a turret-heavy build. Sure, she does damage, but she's most useful in the healing, debuffing, and CC that she does.

    That's fine but its a long way from "Looking for 1 more for fractals, need Guardian" - which I have honestly seen. People seem convinced that somehow the guardian is the most "support / healery" of the classes, which just flat out isn't true. From my understanding a mantra based mesmer outputs the most healing to a group possible, and even that isn't enough to keep folks up if they aren't dodging and avoiding attacks.

    Roles are important, and anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. But forcing classes into roles is just mad - my Mesmer can outtank warriors and guardians with the right spec and build and bosses.

    This right here is why I do not PUG if I can help it. There are some people who are legit bad at their class, and then there are people who tell me how to spec mine so that I am more "useful" to them.

    I am not there to heal you, goddamnit. Every so often I might pop a healing field on folks who have just ressed, say, but it is no one's job to keep you up but your own.

    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    If they're headed in this direction (which is a good one), Necromancer could use some love in the "having any finishers at all," area outside of Staff.

    That said, when they said "This game has no healers," and then "Guardian is a support and healing oriented class," I sure did immediately roll a Guardian, because I could see the "We need a Guardian!" thing coming. Honestly, though, Guardian's just super well put together on the doing-stuff-with-combo-fields end, and it'd be nice if other classes were too, but if there's a spectrum, Guardian's definitely at the top end of it.

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    my elementalist sure is good at blowing up water fields and giving people lots of might

  • Who-PsydWho-Psyd Registered User regular
    Vivixenne wrote: »
    Maledict66 wrote: »
    I don't think anybody here is trying to do that. But you can't argue that there aren't builds that are more support-heavy than others. I mean, there's a big difference between playing my thief in dungeons, who primarily does damage backed up with support from traps, venoms, combos, and the like, and my engineer armed with an elixir gun and a turret-heavy build. Sure, she does damage, but she's most useful in the healing, debuffing, and CC that she does.

    That's fine but its a long way from "Looking for 1 more for fractals, need Guardian" - which I have honestly seen. People seem convinced that somehow the guardian is the most "support / healery" of the classes, which just flat out isn't true. From my understanding a mantra based mesmer outputs the most healing to a group possible, and even that isn't enough to keep folks up if they aren't dodging and avoiding attacks.

    Roles are important, and anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. But forcing classes into roles is just mad - my Mesmer can outtank warriors and guardians with the right spec and build and bosses.

    This right here is why I do not PUG if I can help it. There are some people who are legit bad at their class, and then there are people who tell me how to spec mine so that I am more "useful" to them.

    I am not there to heal you, goddamnit. Every so often I might pop a healing field on folks who have just ressed, say, but it is no one's job to keep you up but your own.

    Anyone looking for specific Class/Spec combinations is silly. Personal Ability is so much more important than what the Hero Sheet says, and even then a good player will likely be switching utilities at least if not weapons frequently to match certain encounters. Certain Classes do not have all the same tools, Mesmers lack many Combo Fields and only have a Single Blast FInisher for example. But every class can serve any specific role, usually you want to build for several at once.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    pretty much

    for most classes it's far more useful to think about speccing for flexibility than it is to think about pigeonholing yourself

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    If they're headed in this direction (which is a good one), Necromancer could use some love in the "having any finishers at all," area outside of Staff.

    Rangers could use some love in the 'not sucking' area.

  • VivixenneVivixenne Remember your training, and we'll get through this just fine. Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    I have added a couple of new posts to the Tumblr, mainly as samples so that you can see what kind of information can be useful - http://gw2nice.tumblr.com

    Feedback and thoughts welcome; do post comments directly on the posts themselves if you feel so inclined!

    Stuff about armor would be great if people care to contribute; you can submit posts from the forum OR put your own post together based on other people's posts... just try to credit people where possible. :)

    Vivixenne on
    XBOX: NOVADELPHINI | DISCORD: NOVADELPHINI #7387 | TWITTER
  • fyastarterfyastarter Registered User regular
    So when I rolled engineer I did it because it was the guns class, and it has dual pistols! But it turns out I can't really fire both pistols at once, thats just for theives, who have like eleventy billion other weapon options (I know, kits, shut up). Unless I was a charr, but I'm a human. Waawaa etc.

  • Killer AvacadoKiller Avacado Registered User regular
    fyastarter wrote: »
    So when I rolled engineer I did it because it was the guns class, and it has dual pistols! But it turns out I can't really fire both pistols at once, thats just for theives, who have like eleventy billion other weapon options (I know, kits, shut up). Unless I was a charr, but I'm a human. Waawaa etc.

    @fyastarter - yeah, I was turned off by dual pistols because of that too. Then I discovered how much fun pistol / shield is and I haven't looked back (except when I find a good rifle, but that's not so much looking back as it is looking downrange... ).

  • fyastarterfyastarter Registered User regular
    Yeah I have kind of enjoyed rifle more than pistols recently.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    It took me until Frac 15 to realize that Mossman has a backyard.

    This backyard makes that fight 1000% more awesome.

    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    Speaking of this, strategy has definitely started to come into play. Strategies that you have to build around your group. Last night doing 15 we had 3 mesmer, 1 engi, 1 ele. We had some rocky moments in the colossus fractal but after some good talking and planning (with copious trial and error) we got it done and it felt good.

  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    So Ima start up some WVWVW stuff tonight between 7 -9 and run it until. Ill be in the TS 3 and will advertise in guild when Im on.

    If you have never wuvved the time to start is now, any level works.

    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    DaemonSadi wrote: »
    It took me until Frac 15 to realize that Mossman has a backyard.

    This backyard makes that fight 1000% more awesome.

    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    Speaking of this, strategy has definitely started to come into play. Strategies that you have to build around your group. Last night doing 15 we had 3 mesmer, 1 engi, 1 ele. We had some rocky moments in the colossus fractal but after some good talking and planning (with copious trial and error) we got it done and it felt good.

    I am both intrigued and terrified of that level of coordination required. I assume I should farm 10 for ascended rings and a back before tackling 11+? Oh well, gives my incentive to mix in some Arah explorables so I have some variety to my pain and anguish.

    Black lives matter.
    Law and Order ≠ Justice
    ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
    Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
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  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    DaemonSadi wrote: »
    It took me until Frac 15 to realize that Mossman has a backyard.

    This backyard makes that fight 1000% more awesome.

    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    Speaking of this, strategy has definitely started to come into play. Strategies that you have to build around your group. Last night doing 15 we had 3 mesmer, 1 engi, 1 ele. We had some rocky moments in the colossus fractal but after some good talking and planning (with copious trial and error) we got it done and it felt good.

    I am both intrigued and terrified of that level of coordination required. I assume I should farm 10 for ascended rings and a back before tackling 11+? Oh well, gives my incentive to mix in some Arah explorables so I have some variety to my pain and anguish.

    Its not bad enough that you cannot advance w/o a ring. But once you hit the upper end (15-19) you better have some.

    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    Some randoms I've done fractals with mentioned that once you get to 20, the agony will pretty much auto down you if not almost kill you outright without agony. I'm not there, but it's a thought.

    I'll probably get 1-2 of my other characters up to 10 so I can farm rings (daily chest is per character), since it's getting really difficult for me to find fractal groups to advance any further with my main.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Ardor wrote: »
    Some randoms I've done fractals with mentioned that once you get to 20, the agony will pretty much auto down you if not almost kill you outright without agony. I'm not there, but it's a thought.

    I'll probably get 1-2 of my other characters up to 10 so I can farm rings (daily chest is per character), since it's getting really difficult for me to find fractal groups to advance any further with my main.

    I picked up an Essence Vial in my very first fractal on that Necromancer last night. It's nice to have variety.
    fyastarter wrote: »
    Yeah I have kind of enjoyed rifle more than pistols recently.

    Yeah, I rolled an Engineer because I decided I was not feeling the Elementalist alt I'd created. Rifle is super-entertaining; took it into SPvP and was topping Rabbit-tier scoreboards after having guessed my way to a crit / gadgets build. This bodes ill for the warrior I'd been planning to Rifle with, but there are other options, I'm sure.
    mojojoeo wrote: »
    So Ima start up some WVWVW stuff tonight between 7 -9 and run it until. Ill be in the TS 3 and will advertise in guild when Im on.

    If you have never wuvved the time to start is now, any level works.

    As a suggestion, lowbie WuVers should actively seek out yak / camp / objective groups, because they could use the event goodies anyway and will learn their way around maps. A bunch of WvW enthusiasts, such as myself, started trying to improvise surprise Golems and portal-jumping of towers on Maguuma last night in the absence of anyone without concrete knowledge of "Portal goes HERE," and the like. The results were quite uneven; better to stick to the concrete and useful stuff until you learn your way around.

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    DaemonSadi wrote: »
    It took me until Frac 15 to realize that Mossman has a backyard.

    This backyard makes that fight 1000% more awesome.

    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    Speaking of this, strategy has definitely started to come into play. Strategies that you have to build around your group. Last night doing 15 we had 3 mesmer, 1 engi, 1 ele. We had some rocky moments in the colossus fractal but after some good talking and planning (with copious trial and error) we got it done and it felt good.

    I am both intrigued and terrified of that level of coordination required. I assume I should farm 10 for ascended rings and a back before tackling 11+? Oh well, gives my incentive to mix in some Arah explorables so I have some variety to my pain and anguish.

    Actually you don't need to farm for rings. I got to my ring on 12 and Varg, who was with us, still didn't have any agony resistance when we were doing 15.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    I dunno. I started using a Rifle on my Engie, but with the Rifle, I feel like I'm mostly just auto-attacking. With the Pistols, every skill was getting used.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    I dunno. I started using a Rifle on my Engie, but with the Rifle, I feel like I'm mostly just auto-attacking. With the Pistols, every skill was getting used.

    Rifle is honest-to-God more of a PvP kit as near as I can tell, but the 5-3-4 combo is a fair amount of burst / interrupts on a thing, too. Guarantee someone else here has more idea than I do what your options there might be; a fistful of toolbelt grenades suggests itself.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • ArtereisArtereis Registered User regular
    DaemonSadi wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    DaemonSadi wrote: »
    It took me until Frac 15 to realize that Mossman has a backyard.

    This backyard makes that fight 1000% more awesome.

    One of the things that intrigues me about higher-level fractals is that group dynamics are gradually becoming more important. In most dungeons the ability of the group is largely the sum of everyone's individual skill/gear; there's teamwork in the sense that you should pick each other up, and environmental factors (like in boss fights) but not in terms of rotating abilities.

    But in higher level fractals (and I'm only up to 8) it takes a bit more coordination for basic fights even - more use of combo fields, more care taken to rotate skills (like, so two people don't feedback at the same time), and I suspect dps-focused builds will be less viable. My hope is that up in the 20s and 30s and beyond the game almost becomes like team Dark Souls or something. I think the gameplay mechanics as is are strong enough that that could happen.

    I doubt that even in the higher level fractals there'll be required classes - but each class combination will probably have to plan and coordinate a bit to maximize effectiveness and make best use of skills and combo fields in a way that you don't have to in dungeons so far.

    I also don't see any reason they couldn't implement a fractal-like dynamic of increasing difficulty for other dungeons. The downside is that it makes forming groups harder when people inevitably get split up between difficulty levels, but there are ways around that.

    Speaking of this, strategy has definitely started to come into play. Strategies that you have to build around your group. Last night doing 15 we had 3 mesmer, 1 engi, 1 ele. We had some rocky moments in the colossus fractal but after some good talking and planning (with copious trial and error) we got it done and it felt good.

    I am both intrigued and terrified of that level of coordination required. I assume I should farm 10 for ascended rings and a back before tackling 11+? Oh well, gives my incentive to mix in some Arah explorables so I have some variety to my pain and anguish.

    Actually you don't need to farm for rings. I got to my ring on 12 and Varg, who was with us, still didn't have any agony resistance when we were doing 15.

    I would honestly say that the agony isn't the biggest factor at the moment. Add counts are really what's contributing to the difficulty and is forcing us to evaluate what we know about some of the fights and thinking of other ways to do them. The Colossus arm seal encounter has 8 cultists per side at 15. That't a lot of vulnerability stacks being thrown around. Mossman in the swamp just needs more space to move around, which is what led to us discovering how crazy his backyard is.

    The Legendary grawl shaman is absolutely brutal at this level because his shield phase causes 8-10 elementals to spawn, and there's an insane amount of damage being thrown around. It's probably the only fight that gets significantly easier if people have some agony resistance just because he can pile so many effects on you at once. It's not uncommon for him to shoot you with his agony arrow and then drop a firestorm on your head.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Hate the grenade kit; one cannot circle-strafe while holding down Mouse2 AND trying to ground target fire.

  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Houn wrote: »
    Hate the grenade kit; one cannot circle-strafe while holding down Mouse2 AND trying to ground target fire.

    You know double-tapping a skill button uses it on the ground you're mousing over, right? That was revelatory for me on Necro when I
    realized.

    Edited for clarity!

    Auralynx on
    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Yeah, I do, but there's that whole "I don't have a mouse cursor while I'm circle-strafing, must stop circle-strafing and move cursor to location and double-tap" thing that just... I can't grok it.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
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  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    Nice!

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    As someone that uses a build that is almost exclusively GTAoEs, it can be done with practice.

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  • GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    I dunno. I started using a Rifle on my Engie, but with the Rifle, I feel like I'm mostly just auto-attacking. With the Pistols, every skill was getting used.
    You're doing it wrong. Net Shot at max range, auto until they get closer, Blunderbuss, Jump Shot (it does PBAoE damage twice, so you want them to be in range for both), Overcharged Shot to knock them away (and yourself). By then Net Shot should be recharged and if you've specced into Rifle cooldown reduction by the time the enemy is back in range Blunderbuss will either be back or only be a second away.
    Combine that with the Utility Goggles' toolbelt, Grenade Kit's Grenade Barrage or Flamethrower's Incendiary Ammo and the mob will have melted.

  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    Quick question re: recent changes. I paused my mesmer at 80 with a freshly bought suit of greens (and made my own jewelry). I know at the time I took a break, I was looking at basically farming the shit out of karma to buy armor pieces from the various orr temples. Do I have some new alternatives now in the form of dungeon drops or should I continue focusing on that if and when I want to gear him? He's got like 2 gold after I tried to jump start an engineer and got bored, but I do have a soft spot for farming, so maybe I'll go a-harvesting over the next few weeks and just sell mats to make cash.

  • But you can call meBut you can call me Grand Divina Angela Registered User regular
    I'm getting this game for christmas! Right now I'm trying to decide what I want to play so my brain doesn't lock up on the character creation screen. I think I've finally settled on Sylvari, but all the classes look pretty rad. I'm leaning towards a heavy focus on AoE type stuff, so that's probably Necromancer or Elementalist. But providing support as an Engineer or Guardian sounds cool, too. Choices!

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    I'm getting this game for christmas! Right now I'm trying to decide what I want to play so my brain doesn't lock up on the character creation screen. I think I've finally settled on Sylvari, but all the classes look pretty rad. I'm leaning towards a heavy focus on AoE type stuff, so that's probably Necromancer or Elementalist. But providing support as an Engineer or Guardian sounds cool, too. Choices!

    Well, as people before have said: Necromancer and Elementalist can be gods at Support as well, whilst Engineer is AMAZING at AoE

    I'd even go so far as to say that I find Engineer with Grenades for AoE much more fun than Elementalist, and that Elementalists are much more fun with a durable "run in and knife everyone" build.

    I know jack shit about Guardians. they're good at buffing, but then, so are Engineers, so are Necromancers, so are Elementalists.

    ... Actually guys you know what? We know that all the classes can fill all the old "traditional" roles. But I'm still wondering at this point, "What makes classes unique then?"

    What differentiates them from each other that AREN'T those roles, in terms of playstyle?

    I know that for one, Elementalists and Engineers are much more reliant on rapid kit-swapping than pretty much any other class, so if you enjoy dynamic play that changes quickly, those are good bets.

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    I dunno. I started using a Rifle on my Engie, but with the Rifle, I feel like I'm mostly just auto-attacking. With the Pistols, every skill was getting used.
    You're doing it wrong. Net Shot at max range, auto until they get closer, Blunderbuss, Jump Shot (it does PBAoE damage twice, so you want them to be in range for both), Overcharged Shot to knock them away (and yourself). By then Net Shot should be recharged and if you've specced into Rifle cooldown reduction by the time the enemy is back in range Blunderbuss will either be back or only be a second away.
    Combine that with the Utility Goggles' toolbelt, Grenade Kit's Grenade Barrage or Flamethrower's Incendiary Ammo and the mob will have melted.

    The goggles look so doofy, but they are fantastic.
    I'm getting this game for christmas! Right now I'm trying to decide what I want to play so my brain doesn't lock up on the character creation screen. I think I've finally settled on Sylvari, but all the classes look pretty rad. I'm leaning towards a heavy focus on AoE type stuff, so that's probably Necromancer or Elementalist. But providing support as an Engineer or Guardian sounds cool, too. Choices!

    It's about the only thing Necro's really good at the moment. If you don't mind mediocre single-target, the output on Scepter/Dagger ~ Staff + Wells + Life Transfer is just insane. Can't speak to Elementalist, personally; Greatsword and Hammer on Guardian, along with suitable slot skills, is a heck of an AoE bomb if you want it to be, too.

    If you're like the rest of us you'll want an alt or two anyway; though the endgame's fun I at least find the current implementation fatigue-inducing.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    Heavy AOE? Engineer is right up there in that department, too. Guardian is tops at tagging with staff, as well.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    I'm getting this game for christmas! Right now I'm trying to decide what I want to play so my brain doesn't lock up on the character creation screen. I think I've finally settled on Sylvari, but all the classes look pretty rad. I'm leaning towards a heavy focus on AoE type stuff, so that's probably Necromancer or Elementalist. But providing support as an Engineer or Guardian sounds cool, too. Choices!

    Well, as people before have said: Necromancer and Elementalist can be gods at Support as well, whilst Engineer is AMAZING at AoE

    I'd even go so far as to say that I find Engineer with Grenades for AoE much more fun than Elementalist, and that Elementalists are much more fun with a durable "run in and knife everyone" build.

    I know jack shit about Guardians. they're good at buffing, but then, so are Engineers, so are Necromancers, so are Elementalists.

    ... Actually guys you know what? We know that all the classes can fill all the old "traditional" roles. But I'm still wondering at this point, "What makes classes unique then?"

    What differentiates them from each other that AREN'T those roles, in terms of playstyle?

    I know that for one, Elementalists and Engineers are much more reliant on rapid kit-swapping than pretty much any other class, so if you enjoy dynamic play that changes quickly, those are good bets.

    Guardian has SO much fire, and you spew little green numbers like you're the mothership of some kind of healing invasion. Elementalist is the only thing I've seen even close to keep up.

    You're mostly picking your favorite slot / weapon combination and look more than you're picking a class in this, though.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

This discussion has been closed.