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Is this the right path to success
tysonrss
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello my friends. Its been a few months since I popped up here and I'm backa gain after coming across another thread that lead me here again lol. So I have some questions (again).
I decided to take the advice from you guys that helped me before into choosing computer science instead of a degree in one selected field(game design). Here's the thing. I have interest in Art/Graphics Design, and also Computers. Now my initial career choice was Game Design and to sign up at FullSail and fall for the LaunchBox program. The Laptop virtually shits on my PC(2.4 GHz AMD 64 X2 Athlon)and so for "free" I really wanted that Laptop. But I contained myself and didn't finish their application.
I'm going to go to Franklin University for my Computer Science Bachelors in the Fall of 2013. What I want to know is how Computer Science will help me game design wise. Last I chekced there is really only scripting languages in game design that are "technical" I guess you would say. However I'm not really considering game design per se. But I want to be involved with something that utilizes the skills of a Computer Science degree that works in tandom with art/graphics design and story telling(because I like writing stories I guess, hence my reasoning behind game design).
I decided to do Computer Science and for the art side, learn techniques and things like that on the side on my free time so that in the future when my computer science degree gets me the money I can use it for an art/graphics design career without going back to college to get a degree in it. My girlfriend has an interest in Photography and so we are both artistic(even though my art sucks)so we were kinda hoping to one day meld those together into a business somehow. I don't know.
I just need some guidance from those who have been in my shoes or someone that has a computer science degree with an interest in art. I want to know what my possiblities are out there in the real world with the ideas I have in mind.
As always, thank you to those who help me.
I decided to take the advice from you guys that helped me before into choosing computer science instead of a degree in one selected field(game design). Here's the thing. I have interest in Art/Graphics Design, and also Computers. Now my initial career choice was Game Design and to sign up at FullSail and fall for the LaunchBox program. The Laptop virtually shits on my PC(2.4 GHz AMD 64 X2 Athlon)and so for "free" I really wanted that Laptop. But I contained myself and didn't finish their application.
I'm going to go to Franklin University for my Computer Science Bachelors in the Fall of 2013. What I want to know is how Computer Science will help me game design wise. Last I chekced there is really only scripting languages in game design that are "technical" I guess you would say. However I'm not really considering game design per se. But I want to be involved with something that utilizes the skills of a Computer Science degree that works in tandom with art/graphics design and story telling(because I like writing stories I guess, hence my reasoning behind game design).
I decided to do Computer Science and for the art side, learn techniques and things like that on the side on my free time so that in the future when my computer science degree gets me the money I can use it for an art/graphics design career without going back to college to get a degree in it. My girlfriend has an interest in Photography and so we are both artistic(even though my art sucks)so we were kinda hoping to one day meld those together into a business somehow. I don't know.
I just need some guidance from those who have been in my shoes or someone that has a computer science degree with an interest in art. I want to know what my possiblities are out there in the real world with the ideas I have in mind.
As always, thank you to those who help me.
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Do internships. Get a feel for what you can do. You may discover that the games is just one of the many ways you can flex your art/programming skills, and often not as attractive compared to other fields.
BTW, Columbus is awesome, isn't it?
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
You want to get into a tough field, though, since half the people that study comp sci do so because they "want to make games." So your success will be entirely determined by you. You need to do more than your classwork. Learn languages, complete projects, do similar things on the art/writing side (which you already mentioned as planning to do, but you definitely need to also do that for CS).
If you graduate with a nice portfolio that shows off what you can do, specifically some games since that's what you want, then you'll be in really good shape.
Edit: Also, yeah, internships and such during the summers is a nice idea. Just do things outside of classes.
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I haven't actually started my career yet, but as an artist and computer scientist software engineer I know there are a lot of potential options career-wise. You could look into UI-design if you get a design minor. You could also try to go for computer graphics (most schools offer it), although to be honest I thought it was a bit too math heavy for my tastes. There may be "computery" courses in the art departments too, try to take those as your electives (although don't take the ones that are "learn how to program for artists"). I'm probably going to end up doing business type software, but that's because I still enjoy it well enough, and I can keep my art as a hobby.
To be honest though, I doubt you would end up doing "story-telling" with a computer science degree unless you made an indie game. But a great thing about college is you can test the waters in the beginning a bit. Take a few creative writing courses. Take some art classes. Take computer science, make sure you like it. See what you like before making a commitment to the major. Just be careful not to overdo it because it could also delay graduation.
Oh yeah, talk to an advisor (a person who helps with scheduling) in different departments about this stuff when you sign up for classes. Just don't let them push you around too much, requirements are more flexible than they seem sometimes.
If you want to be a game designer for a living, you need to start making those free games. So just do it. Your computer science education will help you get a head start on the programming side, and on the plus side, being a software developer is a pretty good career from what I hear so that will give you something to do for money for the rest of your life to support your game design hobby.
If you really want to have a go at the whole game design thing, success story Edmund McMillen has some tips and Indie Game: The Movie has some stuff to think about.
Columbus sucks in all honesty.
What he's doing sounds interesting to me like website/software designing. If you could, it'd be great to further discuss things via PM.
But that's the thing, I don't want to spend my life making games for a living simply because its stressful and people make very little pay. I do like it as a hobby I suppose. Making an indie game and selling it online for like 5-10 bucks doesn't sound bad to me if I use it as hobby time and use the skills that Computer Science gives me. It also includes brushing up on my art/design skills. If I want to tackle this sort of thing alone(indie game making for profit).
My problem with art as a minor is that it isn't a option with Franklin University. However Columbus State Community College has it as a option as well as Computer Science as a major(but its called Computer Information Technology)and is apparently transferable to Franklin University. I just doubt that the art classes would transfer.
I did look at those threads again but I felt I needed new opinions since my outlook has drastically changed since Game Design isn't really my main focus anymore, rather is something I'm interested in. I'm just hoping that Computer Science gives me the skills for it as well as skills for other technical things while I take care of my art stuff on the side. Wanting to make a career out of both Art and whatever it is my Computer Science degree gets me.
Why did you pick Franklin then? You might as well have gone to Ohio State, they have a better program in probably everything. But better than FullSail at least. FullSail makes me sad.
No? Programming can complement photography. You would have poor relationship if because your career is programming this somehow means you can't be with your girlfriend. Besides, a career is something you do for you, don't try to make decisions about it based on your SO. You also have to consider the possibility you won't be with your girlfriend forever.
I mean to say as a computer scientist, you actually get to be a little picky in your job choices because there are SO MANY JOBS. So you can pick one with better hours at maybe the sacrifice of pay. BUT the abundance of jobs are NOT the video game ones. So you will have to consider if you want to write "normal software".
Edit: In response to what Veritas wrote, if you're smart enough you can definitely do CS/art stuff. But you really do have to be good enough at both, and since you're questioning your career choice already, I'd probably agree. I've known I wanted to do computer science since middle school and not because I wanted to make video games.
P.S. Columbus doesn't suck but its public transport does
You're literally the first person out of hundreds who has said that. I think you're doing it wrong. (And by "it", I mean taking advantage of living in a city.)
Ugh really dude? Careers do that. You'll be fine. Just know that some jobs come with the hours and some jobs may not. (Standard deviation amongst them notwithstanding.) Don't do the half art thing, CS is tough enough. You'll be able to work in your right-brained side with the appropriate project.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
@Intet: Franklin is easier for me to access instead of Ohio State.
Could you guys give me some good examples on what Computer Science could get me into?
Here's my biggest red flag that you want a kick ass job without the effort. You can't just walk into something and pull out the next great game by putting in no effort. The example above of Super Meat Boy. That was 2 guys, spending YEARS of their life to make a $5-$10 game. They got SOOOO lucky with it getting as popular as it was. Indie Game the movie documents this well. But lets try to get this back to your question, what do you want to do / contribute to a game team?
Microsoft just announced that they were going to open a brand new, first party studio in Vancouver called Black Tusk. They're Hiring. If you get a job there, what sounds good and interesting to you? Lead Character Artist? maybe Senior Cinematic Animator? maybe Senior Visual Effects Engineer which is a little more technical. or Senior Systems Engineer.
edit - here is the full availability list that they have right now
Each one of those links is a link to what they are looking for experience and to get hired. Yes these are all Senior or Lead type positions but to really drive any input into the game, you'll need that.
If the studio system isn't for you, then like others have said, make games. Unity is free engine with free assets. You should be able to make games now. Maybe not for sale but you can get use to the tools and make something. I've got a degree in Comp Sci and one of my 300 level software engineering projects was for the class was to make Tetris. There is nothing propriety there about moving shapes and disappearing lines. Make a game field, remember the state of the field, make a piece, drive keyboard input, create a scoring system, etc. If there is a complete line remove it and update the game field. Did I sell it? Hell no, I'd get sued like crazy but it taught me a LOT of how a game works. And that was our semester long project.
What do you mean? Like, careers? Topics you'd learn? Or...?
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I looked it up and according to Google maps it's like 8 miles away. If you have a car or can get a car it's worth it I promise, maybe try to transfer there next year. As much as I don't think it's a good school for me, it's probably perfect for you. The big companies swarm here looking for recruits, if you register with career services you are pretty much going to get a decent job when you graduate if you put in a bit of effort. It will be so much easier to get your first job. Not to mention you can take classes in pretty much anything because it's so big we HAVE every class you could ever want.
Computer Science usually gets you a software development job where you get to make business applications or web applications. You will typically develop code for any number of large companies. Every company needs software and an IT department. Most software is form-based stuff (sometimes with fancy UI features) or backend stuff (no graphical interface). Often you will need to interface with databases. The pay is pretty kickass though.
The fancy stuff like video games and "dream jobs" takes extra effort/brains/talent. How passionate are you about coding? If the answer is "not very" please do not try to go into the games industry as a computer scientist. You don't belong there.
Realize this is kinda double posting because you haven't responded but again, Black Tusk studios. Official Microsoft studio.
11 of the 14 positions now hiring all ask for a Computer Science or equivalent degree. The 3 that do not, are art positions where your portfolio is king.
http://www.microsoft-careers.com/go/MGS-Vancouver/277328/
To be honest guys, Microsoft is pretty much top tier for entry level position and you still generally have to be damn good to land any job there. So it's not really a good typical example.
Very true, but he asked for examples and since they are staffing up, it's a good idea. How about United Front Games (made ModNationRacers and LittleBigPlanet Karting). They have an Audio Programmer, Physics Engineer and Network/Multiplayer Engineer positions that all ask for Comp Sci
http://www.unitedfrontgames.com/careers/job-openings/
Or how about Capcom Vancouver which made Dead Rising 2. They're curently looking for a Build Software Engineer, UI Software Engineer both require CSC
http://capcomvancouver.com/careers/current-openings/
And then don't get me started with EA. They'll have another 30 jobs.
https://jobs.ea.com/
edit - if you can't tell I seriously considered entering into this world but ultimately decided against it. I take a look every year or so to see if it's something I want to try to do but I make more money, have more family/spare time by developing a billing system for a utility company. Sure it's not as "sexy" but it depends on what you want your job/life split to be.
Some of you seem to think I wouldn't put in the effort, that's not entirely true but you do need a lot of motivation to survive in the field, something I just do not have. I've made progress on some games I worked on my own and quit and lost interest because of the countless testing where you have to go through the same processes over and over. One of my games that I worked hard on got lost so that didn't help my motivation either, if anything it thoroughly destroyed my motivation.
Now that I've said that.
I appreciate the help you're all giving me, my replies may seem empty and I apoligize that I'm not replying in a manner you all would expect its just I typically don't know what speciifc questions to ask.
Now I'm not really into getting into the major game industry or even at all...I've read that people with CS usually drop the attitude of wanting to build their own game because they enjoy what they're doing more. Apparently those who have CS in Ohio get paid above average, like 50k-100k a year, that's not half bad, too bad I don't plan on staying in Ohio my whole life.
Gilbert mentioned that his job fits him into a position where he still has an outside life, that's what I wnat and I realized that game design would not permit to such luxuries. But even still, I do want to manage to build something. Perhaps its best that instead of making a career out of it, that I use my 'would-be' skills to make an indie game. SOmeone above said that it took 10 years to make one of those indie games, but i think you have to put into consideration the timeframe they must've had, like paying bills, going to work and so on. I don't have that problem. I'm 19(will be 20 in Februrary)I don't have a job despite my countless and relentless attempts at finding one, so I basically have a lot of time.
Truth be known, I'm lazy and not that motivated. But I have spent my time looking at careers and so I know for certain I want to do Computer Science as that opens more paths for me technical wise sicne I've always been technical saavy since I was a kid(built my first PC in 5th grade).
I always viewed game design as a hobby I suppose, wanting to put that cool idea into a game but for me I don't think the career itself is worth it, with the shabby pay and crunch time and all. I have a lot of things I want to do, I don't mind them on my free time, however computer science and its entirety will be my career focus as a whole.
Thanks everyone.
A warning: if right now you're saying "whatever it is my Computer Science degree gets me," that indicates to me that you really haven't thought about why you want a CS degree in the first place. I'm not saying this is necessarily true for you, but one of the biggest, biggest, biggest warning signs that you're about to embark on an unsuccessful higher education endeavor is not being able to articulate why you're pursuing the degree that you are.
A real CS degree (that is, one with a rigorous curriculum) is not easy. Like most engineering majors, most people transfer out of it, not into it.
Most of the stories I read about people going back to school start out the same way your story does. They went to college because they couldn't think of anything better to do, picked a major that they weren't really excited about or didn't know much about, and either dropped out after incurring a lot of debt with nothing to show for it, or barely made the grades, finished, and then realized they had wasted four years learning about something they didn't want to do, and ended up with a crappy transcript that couldn't help them get any job.
There is a lot of grousing out there about how CS, as a discipline and if taught properly, is about the pure science of computing, and doesn't prepare you for any specific career. And in some abstract sense, that's true. But in a more practical sense, a CS degree prepares you for jobs where you help people solve problems using computers.
The most specific practical skill you will learn as a CS major is how to write software. And writing software is a great way to help people solve problems using computers. However, software development is one of those "10,000 hour" skills. So, before you are good at writing software, you have to spend 10,000 hours doing it. You will not get those 10,000 hours in college, even as a CS major. You will get a good education in the fundamentals and several hundred hours of practice. If you come out of school expecting to be a developer and haven't done any development outside of school, you are in a bad way. Many of your peers have been writing code since they were literal children. I strongly suggest, if you decide this route is for you, that you augment your studies with internships and part-time jobs where you can practice software development.
If you don't like software development, that's not necessarily a showstopper (however, you will be expected to pass the classes, and if you really hate it/are bad at it, you're gonna have a bad time). There are lots of jobs a CS major can do that don't involve writing code directly. You could be a consultant who interfaces a lot with the customer, eliciting project requirements. You could be a technical writer. You could be in technical sales and marketing. You could go into IT. You could become a database guy. You could become an information security specialist. All of these are jobs that are more-or-less in demand, especially compared to jobs like "poet" or "artist." You can make a living with these jobs, and enough of one to support a hobby or two on the side.
Yikes. Kind of some bad short-term thinking here, fella.
Because food, shelter, and other things on the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs aren't free, you need to have some way of earning money. You can have a job, or you can have a career. A job is generally something you have to keep the bills paid while you search (within yourself, and within the world) for a career that you like. Not everybody wants a career, and not everybody needs one. Some people are satisfied with a string of jobs, even though it means less security and less opportunity for advancement in the future. Some people are satisfied to put on a backpack and walk the Earth. You may decide you are one of those people. I personally love the security and upward mobility of having a career.
For any career in any discipline, you have to be more dedicated than you would be to just "keep a job." However, most careers permit their practitioners to have rich personal lives outside the workplace. It's a concept called "work-life balance" and nearly all big companies try to manage this balance explicitly.
That is not to say that some careers, or career paths, won't affect this balance in ways you may consider negative. Certain careers and career paths have cultures that apply a lot of pressure for you to work, potentially at the expense of all your other interests. High-powered lawyers at big firms, medical residents, startup employees, and other similar jobs culturally encourage people to put in lots and lots of hours. Read the history of, say, Apple Computer, or some of the early tech startups, and you'll see that the correlation between living in the office to make something Insanely Great and divorces is really high.
Because the game industry is full of people with mindsets like yours clamoring to get in, and because it is extremely competitive, this is also a field where work-life balance is sacrificed for certain kinds of professional success.
The good news is that computing is a field where you have jobs of all kinds - super high-powered long-hour startup jobs and 9-to-5 workaday jobs, all of which are on potentially rewarding career paths. Nobody forces you into any one path - you have to make that decision on your own. Is having a pull at the million-dolllar startup slot machine worth the 80-hour weeks and possibly alienating your loved ones? Can you live with $80K a year and 3% raises if you know that you'll rarely have to be up at 2AM working? It's up to you.
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I am fortunate in that my hobby and my career are the same thing. So, I get paid (fairly well) to practice what I like to do anyway. If you can swing it, this is a really ideal situation. (The only "downside" is that now I do my hobby 40 hours a week, and so I don't really do it much for fun anymore. However, this freed up lots of time to pick up other hobbies, which are also great).
On the flipside, hobbies are great, but at your age you can probably maximize your long-term happiness by focusing on 1) dedicating yourself to a career path, including the education required to do it, and 2) delayed gratification. If you are "lazy and unmotivated" as you say, that is going to be a long-term problem for you. Not fixing that now will compound the problem later. There are some jobs for lazy and unmotivated people, but not many careers. I would work on that. Figure out what gets you excited and what breaks you out of the laziness pattern, and channel that into your career. If you do that now, you will have lots more time and resources to pursue your hobbies (game design, guitar playing, windsurfing, whatever) later.
Also Columbus is awesome and you are not doing it right.
You will flunk out of a real CS program. Intense math, logic, and programming courses are not for lazy people. Do yourself a favor and pick a more realistic major.
I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying be prepared to work. Hard. If you don't know why you're doing all that work, maybe take a look at actual programming jobs. Look at software, see what looks interesting. What would be fun to develop or work on? Making websites in some manner (which can certainly also use artistic skills)? Maybe websites and applications to display/sell/whatever your girlfriend's art? Maybe doing stuff like algorithm generated artwork?
This is good to know. If you don't want it you aren't getting in, so employment in a game-development company is not in the cards for you so you can stop thinking about it.
There seems some attitude that getting a BSCS gets you a class of job. It doesn't. I know CS degree holders who are currently employed in game companies, I know a CS degree holder who is a senior SAN admin (after kicking ass and taking names in the field for 15 years), I know CS degree holders working service industry jobs (and not getting enough hours), I know a CS degree holder who worked for 3-4 game companies and then left and built his own app and a few years ago bought an $800K house for cash, and I know a CS degree holder who is an unemployed shiftless lagabout. Having a degree doesn't give you shit, other than the certification. Alternatively, every game developer I know (maybe a dozen) has a social life. There are crunch times, but that's part of the biz. I'm not in game development but I'm basically 75% of the time (heavily weighted in Spring and winter) in some form of crunch time (wihich for me means besides making sure deliverables are released, taking calls and emails from Japan west through the UK on top of US business time). You don't get anywhere unless you are willing to put effort, over time, and it helps to smile. I've a BA in Econ, minor philosphy. I'm just getting to the point where I could possibly field an app to a Forbes 100 company for a non-drone position, and it's not because of my degree.
Having a STEM degree (which CS is included) does mean youve met some base certfication culling by HR for a lot of in-demand positions, but that hardly means you are entitled to the position.
Also, if you make decisions that affect you longterm based on your current girlfriend and not for yourself and your path, you are likely to royally fuck yourself over and be stuck in a dead-end job until you can self-start out of it (which is hard, since most "job creators" are looking for cogs to fill roles, and are not terribly interested in stewarding your professional development).