GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Weaver is great because it's fun to say Shukuchi. Also, Geminate Attack is a great trivia question, as so many people think it's Germinate Attack, which would fit thematically, but is incorrect.
The radiance will do more damage early game and significantly speed up your farm and you can get the diffusual later when it your illusions don't die instantly and you can actually generate them. You pretty much need to get the radiance before the 20 minute mark though on any hero except Alchemist to be worthwhile.
Radiance only does more damage in an AoE, if you compare getting both at level 1, or if the enemy runs out of mana. The DPS increase if you assume you're going to be casting a Q on anybody you're engaging on is pretty huge.
It's really not as the illusion should die after 1 or maybe 2 hits, unless the enemy team is terrible, in the early game. I think diffusual is still generally a better pickup since it lets you build towards health much earlier and doesn't rely on having to save up 3800 gold.
Also not a fan of radiance on weaver since it once again delays him picking up health which he desperately needs if the other team has any sort of coordination with stuns.
I've been doing a weaver/seer lane combo with my brother for the last 3 or so months (which is really fun btw), and I still think he's suicidal every single time he goes in to use time lapse. Gets me every time.
Is there any chance someone could toss me a key they have lying around? A friend of mine is trying to get into the beta, but I told him I'd ask around first to see if I could find some.
I don't really see radiance being viable on PL but for heroes like BS with his heal, specter, lone druid, and following people with tree is always fun. Great item on some heroes, but not for everyone.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2013
Every pro match I've seen with PL lately has been Diffusal -> Heart...except one, the match where some team who's name escapes me played VG and VG had this crazy farmed AM that still got smashed by PL, who had a Radiance. I've watched a lot of pro Dota in the last two weeks, with G-League and Defense 3 going on, so I am not terribly ashamed for not remembering the other team...it might have been iG.
Catching up on G-League now, and in LGD.cn v. DK game 2, burning goes Diffusal -> Heart.
So...I guess those aren't great example since the Radiance built one and the Diffusal/heart build lost...but my point stands! Diffusal and heart are standard PL play.
I think the reason diffusal and heart are more standard is that because you aren't farming radiance you get more oppurtunity to contribute early on which matters alot more in pubs than at a pro level where some teams can essentially 4v5 while you afk farm.
i played a PL game the other day and if you get early stuff even parts of diffusal you just melt people, come back to lane with a full mana bar and sorry enemy support but i have 2-3 Spirit Lances up my sleeve get ready to die
i was just running around killing people with like, basilius tranquil boots blade of alacrity and suddenly realized i had 4k. PL's a cool dude wish radiance rush was more viable and not stompy like P10 was talkin' about
basically i want to play spectre non stop forever god i love illusion heroes
I think the reason diffusal and heart are more standard is that because you aren't farming radiance you get more oppurtunity to contribute early on which matters alot more in pubs than at a pro level where some teams can essentially 4v5 while you afk farm.
My point is that even at the pro level right now, Diffusal -> Heart is standard. I've only seen one Radiance on a PL, and I believe it was iG.
I wish he wouldn't do it like this. TB hates "Let's Play"s for being lazy, unthoughtful content but that's basically what his 3 DotA2 videos have been. He has this bizarre idea that he'll understand the game better if he learns heroes on his own rather than reading a guide first, and it's really not true. So far we've seen him take Ice Path last on Jakiro and Tombstone last on Undying. >.>
Jibba on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2013
Yeah, that's a recipe for failure. At least taking a peak at some guides and getting a feel for how a hero is meant to be played is pretty important. You don't have to follow the builds to the letter, but at least get some idea of why a hero is strong. Taking Ice Path last is just foolish lack of knowledge that could be solved by five minutes of basic research.
I guess a few of the obvious heroes like SK that might work...but overall it's a recipe for being an anchor weight around your teams neck for a while.
Part of his idea was to see how well the game instructs newer players, which is actually a totally fair and reasonable goal. One of the ways he does it is by buying only Recommended Items to see how good they are. The problem is he doesn't actually pay attention to them. Twenty minutes into the Jakiro game, he sees the wards on the list and goes, "Oh, I guess I'm a support."
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Well, that's great...but he might want to wait to do that until Valve actually starts to put the learning systems in place. Right now it's no better than any other moba for teaching you how to play, and is probably behind LoL in that area...which is fine, it's a beta.
Eh, I take new heroes out all the time without reading any guides. Sometimes it goes well, other times not so much. I probably wouldn't record video of it though; this dude isn't really funny enough to make it work, instead I just cringe at bad Undying play.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I have this communal team empathy thing going on where I hate going in to a game not knowing anything about who I'm going to play, because I don't want to be that guy. I have a phobia of being that guy.
I have this communal team empathy thing going on where I hate going in to a game not knowing anything about who I'm going to play, because I don't want to be that guy. I have a phobia of being that guy.
Moba play has cured me of that guy-itus. Sometimes I'm him and I feel bad about it, but I apologize and try my best to minimize the fallout, usually with little success. People can be dicks about it or not, but I also don't really care, I just mute and move on. Sometimes you play bad, and other times you have to take the time to pick up a new hero, and these poor random bastards are just going to have to suffer through it with you.
Dark_Side on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I guess, I just find it's easily avoidable. Playing bad isn't, that's going to happen, but not knowing a hero at some basic level is easily available. Look at a guide, play a quick practice game, then go play with players *shrugs*. It's not going to make you a pro, but it will mean you aren't spending a bunch of time reading abilities and looking at items.
I have this communal team empathy thing going on where I hate going in to a game not knowing anything about who I'm going to play, because I don't want to be that guy. I have a phobia of being that guy.
I think i had that worst in LOL, frankly because the grind in that game prior to lvl 30 people were just utter jerks on the "team" and on the opposition.
So in Dota 2 I'm careful to never type anything nasty or accusatory, say gg at the end no matter what happened and make a statement how we gave it a bash if we lost.
Really after watching Sykkuno's lol matches where he always forgives team mates "it's ok he has a good plan I'm sure" I think being excellent to others removes a lot of the pressure of not wanting to be the screwup and invariably finding fault in others. Not saying I don't swear at the screen, I just make sure not to type or voice my acidic disappointment in humanity.
Because you know it could never be because I'm the terrible player; I usually am the that guy .
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
If I am ever playing with you, and I say something like "it's cool man, good college try!", you can just assume I am actually screaming at you without my mic queued up, cursing your mother and your day of birth.
I don't ever flame people, and report a lot of the people who do, but I drop the occasional "Why would you think that was a good idea?" Or, when the PL focuses and dies to the blademail axe for the 6th time, and then has the temerity to express shock, a "Duh," might come out.
Temerity is a great word, by the way.
edit: Though, I will never, ever say "gg," unless either I won or it actually was. I get very bitter when I lose.
I'm of the same boat. I'm pretty calm and reasonable in game (regardless of the anger and complaints I'll voice to my friends on team speak) but jesus if I don't want to have through the internet punching technology any time someone who fucked up tries to blame someone else or act like it's not his fault AT ALL.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I don't flame people, at least not in an arena they can hear me. If you happen to be in the same room as me while I'm playing a game of Dota, you'll hear a lot of "What the christ?", "Why would you do that?", "Holy shit the guy was right there, why would you go down there". 50% of the time, it's aimed directly at myself.
I don't flame people, at least not in an arena they can hear me. If you happen to be in the same room as me while I'm playing a game of Dota, you'll hear a lot of "What the christ?", "Why would you do that?", "Holy shit the guy was right there, why would you go down there". 50% of the time, it's aimed directly at myself.
"Look at the map, you moron." That's a good one too.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The only time I let it boil over in to overt rage at someone is when it's the 2/11/5 guy going "God dude, you're such a noob, lrn2p" when I make some mistake, but I'm 15/4/12.
Oh, that and people who don't know how to push and finish a game, and just want to kill chase their way in to handing the enemy team a string of freebies. I usually will say something biting when that starts to happen.
I try not to be a dick, but sometimes I do say things in chat when people are being stupid. One thing that gets me is people trickling in one or two at a time into a group of four or five trying to "stop a push" that's a wave or two away from a tower and the rest of the team are respawning getting ready to defend at the tower. Great, now we're 2v5 and we gave them a free tower because you have no concept of defending or teamfighting.
Also people raging about not calling missing when the laning phase is long over is hilarious. I'm sorry, sniper that's been afk farming and autoattacking for the whole game, but it's twelve minutes in and no one was visible on the minimap so I guess it's everyone else's fault you have no map awareness and got ganked by five at their tower. Bonus points if they complain about not calling riki missing long after he's hit 6. I've seen that happen.
Yeah I don't really play with PA people because of my issues with being a dick ingame. I'm one of those dudes who yells over the mic
Well at least you're honest.
I don't play with PA people because I don't want to get yelled at, and I have no idea where my skill level sits as compared to most of our players.
I don't stay mad at people or anything. But I am highly competitive and tend to get angry when things go badly.
And I've played with a fair abit of PA dudes on occasion and honestly most of them top out bouncing between the normal/high skill brackets. So you probally aren't any worse than most of them.
EDIT: And yes I realize this comes off as me being an elitist jerk but its what i've noticed and i don't really think theres anything wrong with being in that skill range if you are at least trying to improve.
Sonelan on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
There's huge variation in 'normal'. It's like the wild wild west of skill brackets.
Also people raging about not calling missing when the laning phase is long over is hilarious. I'm sorry, sniper that's been afk farming and autoattacking for the whole game, but it's twelve minutes in and no one was visible on the minimap so I guess it's everyone else's fault you have no map awareness and got ganked by five at their tower. Bonus points if they complain about not calling riki missing long after he's hit 6. I've seen that happen
I get why they do it, but yeah, it's pretty funny. I usually drop a line about map awareness and go back to trying to win the game. Or tell them to buy wards, which always super pisses them off. Because somehow that 150g is an outrageous demand on their lane money.
I tend to stay positive unless someone is really being a jackass, and isn't good enough to back up all their talk. Then I just will take a moment to matter of fact explain exactly what they did wrong and why it ended up resulting in their death.
"Missing? See how you have no vision on top lane, have the lane pushed all the way to enemy tier 1 tower, 3 of 5 are missing, the two that are visible are bot, it's night, and they have night stalker on their team? Yeah..calling missing wasn't gonna save you bro"
The key though, is if you're annoyed enough to say something, say your piece and then shut. yer. mouth. Once you get into the argument, you've lost.
I have played with a couple of PA folks but not the PA community at whole yet. But I would still say I am in the heavy newb bracket. I have mostly been doing random single draft because I am learning characters and what they do as well as the game. I have lost a few games because of myself. Lost a couple due to people on my team dropping. Carried a couple games. And just played a few games where I make mistakes but some how come out with a pretty crazy k-d-a ratio mostly because others are as newbie as me at this level.
Of course I will scream at my screen when I see things that are just awful since I have basic moba skills from LoL.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
After having interacted with you on various occasions in D&D Mazzyx, I want to play Dota with you some time. I'm not sure why. I think it's the FDR avatar.
After having interacted with you on various occasions in D&D Mazzyx, I want to play Dota with you some time. I'm not sure why. I think it's the FDR avatar.
Just be prepared to rage at the newb I am. Just bug me on steam. I tend to play with Ares Prophet and Silas Brown. One knows what is going and the other is a newb like me.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited January 2013
I don't mind new players, they have valid and acceptable excuses for bad things happening. It's the guys with 400 games played that still derp around that make me want to break things.
Been playing this game a bit lately, mostly with my brother. I am getting half decent at supporting, mostly playing rubick/ancient apparition with a bit of jakiro on the side. I am starting to feel like I can be just bad, instead of a complete waste of space now, so Is there any kind of channels or groups or something in this game for playing with PA people, or do I have to add people on the steam list?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
We have a channel, it's called PennyArcade. Just join it.
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It's really not as the illusion should die after 1 or maybe 2 hits, unless the enemy team is terrible, in the early game. I think diffusual is still generally a better pickup since it lets you build towards health much earlier and doesn't rely on having to save up 3800 gold.
Also not a fan of radiance on weaver since it once again delays him picking up health which he desperately needs if the other team has any sort of coordination with stuns.
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Catching up on G-League now, and in LGD.cn v. DK game 2, burning goes Diffusal -> Heart.
So...I guess those aren't great example since the Radiance built one and the Diffusal/heart build lost...but my point stands! Diffusal and heart are standard PL play.
i was just running around killing people with like, basilius tranquil boots blade of alacrity and suddenly realized i had 4k. PL's a cool dude wish radiance rush was more viable and not stompy like P10 was talkin' about
basically i want to play spectre non stop forever god i love illusion heroes
My point is that even at the pro level right now, Diffusal -> Heart is standard. I've only seen one Radiance on a PL, and I believe it was iG.
I guess a few of the obvious heroes like SK that might work...but overall it's a recipe for being an anchor weight around your teams neck for a while.
Ideally we would all know all of the heroes really well, but you really really don't want me playing chen.
Moba play has cured me of that guy-itus. Sometimes I'm him and I feel bad about it, but I apologize and try my best to minimize the fallout, usually with little success. People can be dicks about it or not, but I also don't really care, I just mute and move on. Sometimes you play bad, and other times you have to take the time to pick up a new hero, and these poor random bastards are just going to have to suffer through it with you.
So in Dota 2 I'm careful to never type anything nasty or accusatory, say gg at the end no matter what happened and make a statement how we gave it a bash if we lost.
Really after watching Sykkuno's lol matches where he always forgives team mates "it's ok he has a good plan I'm sure" I think being excellent to others removes a lot of the pressure of not wanting to be the screwup and invariably finding fault in others. Not saying I don't swear at the screen, I just make sure not to type or voice my acidic disappointment in humanity.
Because you know it could never be because I'm the terrible player; I usually am the that guy
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Temerity is a great word, by the way.
edit: Though, I will never, ever say "gg," unless either I won or it actually was. I get very bitter when I lose.
"Look at the map, you moron." That's a good one too.
Oh, that and people who don't know how to push and finish a game, and just want to kill chase their way in to handing the enemy team a string of freebies. I usually will say something biting when that starts to happen.
Well at least you're honest.
I don't play with PA people because I don't want to get yelled at, and I have no idea where my skill level sits as compared to most of our players.
Also people raging about not calling missing when the laning phase is long over is hilarious. I'm sorry, sniper that's been afk farming and autoattacking for the whole game, but it's twelve minutes in and no one was visible on the minimap so I guess it's everyone else's fault you have no map awareness and got ganked by five at their tower. Bonus points if they complain about not calling riki missing long after he's hit 6. I've seen that happen.
I don't stay mad at people or anything. But I am highly competitive and tend to get angry when things go badly.
And I've played with a fair abit of PA dudes on occasion and honestly most of them top out bouncing between the normal/high skill brackets. So you probally aren't any worse than most of them.
EDIT: And yes I realize this comes off as me being an elitist jerk but its what i've noticed and i don't really think theres anything wrong with being in that skill range if you are at least trying to improve.
I get why they do it, but yeah, it's pretty funny. I usually drop a line about map awareness and go back to trying to win the game. Or tell them to buy wards, which always super pisses them off. Because somehow that 150g is an outrageous demand on their lane money.
I tend to stay positive unless someone is really being a jackass, and isn't good enough to back up all their talk. Then I just will take a moment to matter of fact explain exactly what they did wrong and why it ended up resulting in their death.
"Missing? See how you have no vision on top lane, have the lane pushed all the way to enemy tier 1 tower, 3 of 5 are missing, the two that are visible are bot, it's night, and they have night stalker on their team? Yeah..calling missing wasn't gonna save you bro"
The key though, is if you're annoyed enough to say something, say your piece and then shut. yer. mouth. Once you get into the argument, you've lost.
Of course I will scream at my screen when I see things that are just awful since I have basic moba skills from LoL.
Just be prepared to rage at the newb I am. Just bug me on steam. I tend to play with Ares Prophet and Silas Brown. One knows what is going and the other is a newb like me.