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A Prank Call That May Have Contributed to a Suicide - Anonymous now involved. Ugh.
Vixx
Valkyrie: prepared!Registered User regular
Valkyrie: prepared!Registered User regular
So, I am trying to be extremely careful about what I put in this OP. It would be appreciated if you could read it all the way through prior to responding.
Earlier this week, an announcement was made that the Duchess of Cambridge, Kate, was pregnant. She was admitted to King Edward VII Hospital in London for acute morning sickness (yes, it is a thing).
Not long after she was admitted, a pair of Australian radio DJs made a prank phone call to the hospital's main switchboard. They put on very awful English accents and pretended to be Prince Charles and the Queen, with someone even barking in the background pretending to sound like corgis. They were surprised that they were put through from reception to a nurse on the ward where Kate had been admitted, and the nurse proceeded to share confidential information about how Kate was doing.
This phone call was then discussed with the team and managers at the radio station and was approved for airing. The full audio was uploaded to the radio station's website and the call itself was broadcast over the radio, with snippets shared on the news.
The prank was generally laughed at, with Kate and William and Prince Charles included. The hospital itself had ensured both nurses would be safe from any legal repercussions since the Royal Family weren't going to pursue the matter. It stands to reason, however, that both women were ridiculed, mocked, and laughed at. It was all over the news here in Australia - and it was being treated as a very hilarious joke by pretty much everyone.
Earlier today, it has been found that the nurse who initially took the call - Jacinta - was found dead. Hours later, it has been indicated as a likely suicide.
Now, we will never, ever know what made that poor woman feel that she had to take her life. We may not even know if it is indeed linked to the prank call incident, but it's very likely to have been a contributor or a trigger, if not a "cause," given the timing.
SIDEBAR: I'm going to pre-empt anyone trying to say that the DJs should've known that suicide was a likely outcome of their action. Sorry, but it's not. It doesn't let the DJs off the hook, not at all, because it still happened, but to claim that suicide was an expected outcome when you do not know the person involved is disrespectful to the departed.
My questions stem from a discussion Blake and I were having about this just a few minutes ago. The two DJs are now coming under a massive amount of fire from around the world, with declarations that they should lose their jobs, face criminal charges, the works. They have been told there's "blood on your hands", and having browsed through the radio station's Facebook page and looking at the comments left, I can assure you that they're not pretty.
These aren't questions to be answered directly, but more to steer the discussion a bit. They are not easy questions to answer, and there are no right answers. I am very, very curious to know what others think and given that we have a pretty broad demographic with a good understanding for candor and humor here, I figured this was a good place for it.
1. Shouldn't there be concern that the two DJs are now in the same position the two nurses were before? They must feel awful about what they did and now people everywhere are demanding very harsh consequences. Isn't there a risk that these two DJs might feel pushed to consider doing something similar? And if there is that risk, how would the people calling for their blood respond?
2. What IS a reasonable response? There would have to be consequences even if it can never be proven that the suicide and their prank was linked - it's too likely to ignore. But should they lose their jobs? Should they face criminal charges? What should happen to them?
3. I believe there is a lesson to be learned and taught to young people (and even the more immature adults out there). About how the things you do and say - even in good-natured fun! - can result in bigger actions. It may only happen 1 in 500 times, but is that a good enough justification to carry on? And while she may not have taken her life over this incident alone, what else might have been going on for her that led to this? Isn't that a good lesson to teach kids (in a less morbid manner, of course) - that just because you didn't mean any harm does not mean harm is not done? That yeah, calling someone a name may not be a big deal most days, but what if that particular someone has an amazingly sad story you don't know about, and your name-calling was the straw that broke the camel's back?
4. In relation to 3, where do you draw the line? Surely we can't be expected to never say anything in jest to anyone for fear that they could die, but surely we CAN be expected to be nice and behave like bigger, stronger, kinder, wiser adults when we are able to do so. Can't we?
5. The advent of social media makes this kind of vitriol much easier to vent, share, and, most importantly, target. You can now make your ill-conceived views and opinions known to anyone who cares to know them, especially the person you are targeting! But what does that mean for people who can't seem to fathom how far the consequences can reach? I have seen kids bullied to the point of suicide, and social media is largely pointed to as huge contributing factor - because Facebook reaches past school, taking the bullying home with them, and it's basically a full day of torture with no break, no safe place. How do we begin to address this growing issue?
REFERENCES:
About the prank call - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20610197
Nurse found dead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20645838
Royal Family response - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20649816
Response to the prank call - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20651246 ; http://www.news.com.au/world/twitter-vents-fury-on-aussie-royal-hoaxers-mel-greig-and-michael-christian-after-death/story-fndir2ev-1226532616339
UPDATES:
December 10
The DJs have given their first interview since the incident - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20662352
Interview can be viewed in full here - http://www.australiantimes.co.uk/news/in-australia/2day-fm-djs-break-silence-watch-full-interview-here.htm
The radio station have implemented a ban on all prank calls pending a review on their policies and procedures - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20657114
The radio station allege that multiple attempts were made to contact the nurses prior to airing the interview - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20661961
December 11
Anonymous get involved - http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/12/2day-fm-targeted-by-anonymous-after-royal-hoax-prank/
Earlier this week, an announcement was made that the Duchess of Cambridge, Kate, was pregnant. She was admitted to King Edward VII Hospital in London for acute morning sickness (yes, it is a thing).
Not long after she was admitted, a pair of Australian radio DJs made a prank phone call to the hospital's main switchboard. They put on very awful English accents and pretended to be Prince Charles and the Queen, with someone even barking in the background pretending to sound like corgis. They were surprised that they were put through from reception to a nurse on the ward where Kate had been admitted, and the nurse proceeded to share confidential information about how Kate was doing.
This phone call was then discussed with the team and managers at the radio station and was approved for airing. The full audio was uploaded to the radio station's website and the call itself was broadcast over the radio, with snippets shared on the news.
The prank was generally laughed at, with Kate and William and Prince Charles included. The hospital itself had ensured both nurses would be safe from any legal repercussions since the Royal Family weren't going to pursue the matter. It stands to reason, however, that both women were ridiculed, mocked, and laughed at. It was all over the news here in Australia - and it was being treated as a very hilarious joke by pretty much everyone.
Earlier today, it has been found that the nurse who initially took the call - Jacinta - was found dead. Hours later, it has been indicated as a likely suicide.
Now, we will never, ever know what made that poor woman feel that she had to take her life. We may not even know if it is indeed linked to the prank call incident, but it's very likely to have been a contributor or a trigger, if not a "cause," given the timing.
SIDEBAR: I'm going to pre-empt anyone trying to say that the DJs should've known that suicide was a likely outcome of their action. Sorry, but it's not. It doesn't let the DJs off the hook, not at all, because it still happened, but to claim that suicide was an expected outcome when you do not know the person involved is disrespectful to the departed.
My questions stem from a discussion Blake and I were having about this just a few minutes ago. The two DJs are now coming under a massive amount of fire from around the world, with declarations that they should lose their jobs, face criminal charges, the works. They have been told there's "blood on your hands", and having browsed through the radio station's Facebook page and looking at the comments left, I can assure you that they're not pretty.
These aren't questions to be answered directly, but more to steer the discussion a bit. They are not easy questions to answer, and there are no right answers. I am very, very curious to know what others think and given that we have a pretty broad demographic with a good understanding for candor and humor here, I figured this was a good place for it.
1. Shouldn't there be concern that the two DJs are now in the same position the two nurses were before? They must feel awful about what they did and now people everywhere are demanding very harsh consequences. Isn't there a risk that these two DJs might feel pushed to consider doing something similar? And if there is that risk, how would the people calling for their blood respond?
2. What IS a reasonable response? There would have to be consequences even if it can never be proven that the suicide and their prank was linked - it's too likely to ignore. But should they lose their jobs? Should they face criminal charges? What should happen to them?
3. I believe there is a lesson to be learned and taught to young people (and even the more immature adults out there). About how the things you do and say - even in good-natured fun! - can result in bigger actions. It may only happen 1 in 500 times, but is that a good enough justification to carry on? And while she may not have taken her life over this incident alone, what else might have been going on for her that led to this? Isn't that a good lesson to teach kids (in a less morbid manner, of course) - that just because you didn't mean any harm does not mean harm is not done? That yeah, calling someone a name may not be a big deal most days, but what if that particular someone has an amazingly sad story you don't know about, and your name-calling was the straw that broke the camel's back?
4. In relation to 3, where do you draw the line? Surely we can't be expected to never say anything in jest to anyone for fear that they could die, but surely we CAN be expected to be nice and behave like bigger, stronger, kinder, wiser adults when we are able to do so. Can't we?
5. The advent of social media makes this kind of vitriol much easier to vent, share, and, most importantly, target. You can now make your ill-conceived views and opinions known to anyone who cares to know them, especially the person you are targeting! But what does that mean for people who can't seem to fathom how far the consequences can reach? I have seen kids bullied to the point of suicide, and social media is largely pointed to as huge contributing factor - because Facebook reaches past school, taking the bullying home with them, and it's basically a full day of torture with no break, no safe place. How do we begin to address this growing issue?
REFERENCES:
About the prank call - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20610197
Nurse found dead - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20645838
Royal Family response - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20649816
Response to the prank call - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20651246 ; http://www.news.com.au/world/twitter-vents-fury-on-aussie-royal-hoaxers-mel-greig-and-michael-christian-after-death/story-fndir2ev-1226532616339
UPDATES:
December 10
The DJs have given their first interview since the incident - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20662352
Interview can be viewed in full here - http://www.australiantimes.co.uk/news/in-australia/2day-fm-djs-break-silence-watch-full-interview-here.htm
The radio station have implemented a ban on all prank calls pending a review on their policies and procedures - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20657114
The radio station allege that multiple attempts were made to contact the nurses prior to airing the interview - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20661961
December 11
Anonymous get involved - http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/12/2day-fm-targeted-by-anonymous-after-royal-hoax-prank/
Vixx on
+12
Posts
But there's no way anyone involved in it could have anticipated this as a consequence, and that the DJs are getting lambasted in response isn't helping the matter either.
Given that they're already such lightning rods for public opinion I can't see them keeping their jobs, if advertisers pull funding from the station due to them being kept on, then it's in the best interest of the station to cut them.
If they do get fired, I really, genuinely hope that the radio station at least pays for counselling for the both of them as long as is necessary. Cuz that is some heavy shit to carry on your shoulders, and to lose your job at the same time would be, well, there wouldn't be many of us that'd bounce back from that.
I think it was poor form to do a joke like this. You're dealing with patient privacy and medical professionals that are already overworked and stressed.
Truth be told, no-one I've spoken to even found the initial prank (pre-suicide) funny at all. They just thought the DJs were a bunch of inane twats.
I heard about the prank over the radio and on the news, and I could not understand why anyone thought it was funny. I just shrugged and did the whole "shock jocks are dumb" thing.
Satans..... hints.....
However blaming them for the suicide seems like a stretch. Obviously, we don't know the specifics of the Nurse's mental state or anything, but it does seem to me that if she did commit suicide due to this, there might in all liklihood be some sort of underlying condition that the call kicked off. Not that it makes it any better, people shouldn't be pricks to each other like that in general, and given the timing it seems more than coincidental that she killed herself so soon after being publically mocked.
Question three is answered rather simply: Words mean things. Saying things to people affects how they feel. People need to take responsibility for what they say and how other people respond to that, and consider their words before they speak. I wonder if the two DJs thought that the nurse might feel utterly shitty as a result of what they did, and ignored that because it was funny, or just didn't consider that at all. Either way, engage brain then open mouth.
Remember those topless photos of Kate Middleton a few months ago? Where some papparazi had hidden on a roof outside of their house in france so he could snap pictures of her? Almost everyone agreed that it was in poor taste, but damned if TMZ and the papers that published the photos of her didn't immediately become mobbed by people eager to see the goods.
not that anyone expects the Mail to treat anything with a mediocum of dignity, of course
I've never heard of these presenters before so I don't know how entrenched they are into 2Day's line-up. Sandilands had a long-standing controversial (read: awful) reputation.
I'm more angry at 2Day FM as a whole though, for their disturbing lack of progress from these recent mistakes.
also two of their biggest sponsors have stopped supporting them
"The prank call was pre-recorded and vetted by lawyers before being broadcast in Sydney."
The pair's excuse to date was that they didn't expect the call to be allowed through, that they thought they'd be hung up on immediately. That it was pre-recorded, and approved by a legal team makes this seem a whole lot more premeditated, rather than them getting caught up in the moment.
So fuck them. Based on the rest of that article, I don't think the pair should lose their jobs, I think the station should lose it's license. It's already on probation for pulling hideous shit on the regular, and there should be consequences.
Neither have I, but if they're anything like Sandilands they'll probably see it as their big break. No such thing as bad publicity and all that.
Really, it was just a prank call that they expected to get hung up on. I strongly doubt a single person at the station or here would think "a prank call? what if things get WAY out of hand and someone kills themselves?"
It can't hurt anyone who doesn't let it hurt them
50 posts appeared while I was typing and posting mine. Your post got caught in the crossfire
These guys feel terrible, sure, and I understand that. I have some empathy for that. On the other hand, if they didn't want to feel like pieces of shit for how they treat other people while on their show, maybe they should have treated other people better while on their show. Its just a joke/we never meant to hurt anyone does not excuse you of what you do.
ah k that changes things away from a silly prank that went further than expected
although
it just means that 2day fm is full of people who will make efforts to be dicks whenever possible
and that is no change at all
I don't think there should be any legal action taken, either criminal by either state, or civil by the nurse's family - if the governments hadn't taken action as a result of the call, then none should be taken after her death either. There is no way they could have predicted this outcome - I don't know UK labour laws, but possibly could have seen the nurse getting fired here in the US for violating HIPAA, etc.
Agree with Rolo in that the DJs probably have to be let go - if not for the call, then for its outcome. Just getting the nurse fired might have been "OK," since she failed to do her job protecting a patient, but indirectly causing her death is too much negative press for the DJs and the station.
So yeah, fire the DJs, the producer responsible and maybe force a resignation from the station's GM.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
From everything I've read, they have! They're already on probation, so it's not like I'm calling for them to lose their license over this one incident. They have a history of using their platform to broadcast vile shit.
Satans..... hints.....
I don't what the http://www.acma.gov.au says about this but something needs to be done about stopping this sort of behavior outright.
Acma havn't said anything publicly but there needs to be a increase of clear punishment to these guys for attempting this behavior not matter what the outcome.
If the nurse who ended up taking her own life hadn't done so (I deeply wish she hadn't), what level of shit-storm could she have expected and how long would it have lasted?
And (for what it's worth and if what I'm reading is processing in my brain this early) the DJ's should probably lose their jobs as well as face some sort of public censure.
The whole boys-will-be-boys-excuse ended at thirteen when you smashed a neighbor's window; the medium of public broadcasting carries with it an inherent weight of consequence. Even Howard-fucking-Stern has to tow the line for his paycheck.
there is also the niggling thought that neither nurse consented to their voices being played on the radio show
you know how in candid camera and other prank TV shows, the people in the video have to give consent before it can be broadcast?
I highly doubt consent was sought or received by either individual nurse involved in this call, and that bugs me a bit
I don't know how it is the UK, but the in US if you ask for confidentiality they cannot release the information to anyone with the pass code regardless if they're family or not. This is true for both celebrities and non-celebrities, they cannot even release that they are patient. I'm sure there's protocols for saying yes the family can have this information, but I don't know if that applies only in person or phone, too. I'll have to ask my mom, but according to her when someone calls in and the patient has requested they not release info without a pass code it doesn't matter what you say on the phone (whether you're the Queen of England or their husband) without that pass code you get no information.
so she never knew her family back in asia but the radio station tracked them down and flew one of them over to reunite them
then at the last minute they go, shes behind one of these 3 doors, if you pick the right one you get reunited, pick the wrong one and we will send her home. oh yea and theres soundproof glass behind the doors as well
so then this chick picked the wrong door and they were like nah check it out shes behind this other one now you dont get to meet or find out anything about each other and you can spend the rest of your life never knowing who they are
cue these people crying their fucking eyes on opposite sides of soundproof glass at the sight of each other and begging the radio hosts to let them meet each other
this goes for a while before they cave and let them meet, and then they act like they are good guys for reuniting them even though she picked the wrong door
Pranks are mean-spirited and can lead to nothing but bad things all for a laugh? There are better and easier ways to be funny.
Now, since we don't know why this woman chose to take her own life I'm a little torn on what should happen to them. It definitely seems like the prank is a part of the reason though I highly doubt it is the sole reason. However, since this can never be proven, we're stuck in a situation without a completely fair resolution. They should definitely be punished, and I would be ok with prank radio being banned from the airways but that's more of a personal vendetta.
It's just like that ghost girl in the elevator prank going around. People are enjoying it and getting a good laugh because nobody got hurt. However, when you put someone in a situation where they feel immense fear you don't know how they will react. What happens if someone lashed out angrily and hurts that girl because they are so terrified? Why put anyone in that situation if you don't have to? It just leads to the possibility of tragedy.