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Huh, while rereading the rules I noticed something. Can upgrades *only* be installed on central servers? i.e. remote servers have no root spot for upgrades.
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
The root of a remote server is where the asset/agenda is installed. Central servers only have a specified root because their normal root is an unwieldy pile of cards.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Incorrect.
Central servers have roots so that upgrades can be installed. Remote servers can have any number of cards installed, provided only one is an agenda/asset.
It's a common tactic of mine (and a focus of my NBN deck) to install 2-3 cards in a remote and let the runner guess what they might be. You can make the runner pay for this by installing cards you know they can't afford to trash, such as putting an unrezed Ash and a PAD Campaign together. San-San is also fantastic for this, when you get the runner thinking they can break in to trash a cheap upgrade and find it staring back at them.
Ah, cool. Just though of another question. Under Accessing multiple cards, it mentions that the runner needs to deal with one card before moving on to the next.
1. Can a runner see all the cards he'll have access to at once?
2. If they move on from a card, can they decide to go back to it again later on the same run?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if a runner might be forced to look at the top card of R&D, decide not to trash it, then look at the upgrade and then realize they did in fact want to trash that top card of R&D but couldn't. Or does he just look at all of them and say, I wanna resolve this one first.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Yup, access order matters. It's something I'm trying to get my friends into the habit of as per above.
"No, you can't look at this whole stack. Pick them one at a time and make your decisions."
When a corp purges virus tokens, does it do so for both players? Meaning, can I purge virus tokens to clear the runner's Crypsis virus tokens?
PikaPuff on
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
... I'm confused. What virus tokens do you view as "Corp"? You purge *all* virus tokens, which gets any program that accumulate them - all of which belong to the runner.
Firstly thanks for the advice, secondly, out of interest what did you Weyland deck lose to in the league?
The first loss was against a criminal that managed to keep me broke the entire game through trashing all my melanges immediately and account siphoning me pretty much every time i used beanstalk or hedgefund to build a credit pool back up.
The second was against Noise, I was doing well, I had a posted bounty installed behind an impenetrable data fort, and 2 scorched earth in my hands, the turn before I installed the posted bounty he installed a second medium, which I should have took as a clue to ice up R&D a lot more, but I advanced the posted bounty 3 times thinking I would Scorched Earth him to death next turn, but he ran on my R&D 4 times the next turn, accessing 2 additional cards each time, and managed to get 7 points in one turn through that.
When I get home tonight I'll take a look at the decks you posted and give my thoughts.
Ah, cool. Just though of another question. Under Accessing multiple cards, it mentions that the runner needs to deal with one card before moving on to the next.
1. Can a runner see all the cards he'll have access to at once?
No idea how well they'll do. This is just based on my instinct after a few games. Open to suggestions if you have any; definitely want to grab a datapack and see if I can improve on them though.
A particular thing I'd like feedback on - the random singleton Infiltration in my runner deck, I just put it in to make 45, is there something any of you would suggest differently? (I don't put any stock in Net Shield, even against a Jinteki player it seems pretty easy to work around net damage and the card is all but dead against corps who find other ways to deal damage anyway)
Also, clarify something for me, because the rules don't seem to - some of the agendas talk about putting a hosted agenda counter on the card when you score it - but the rules say hosted counters are removed when cards leave the play area. How are you ever supposed to use those hosted counters in a useful way?
Every time I played with Crypsis I almost always wished it was something else just a short time later. I'd just as soon spend clicks on credits or card draw if I don't have the breaker I need right now. It's also expensive as hell to use if the corp gets any decent ice out.
There's an argument to be made for Special Order in that vein, I'd have to play with it to see what other OOF cards end up being weaker than I want them to be to determine what to remove.
I think SO is slightly less needed in Shapers if just because Tinkering exists.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I can fully understand leaving out Crypsis. It's very iffy IMO. However, I can't imagine playing without Crypsis or Special Orders. Tinkering is good for surprise breakthroughs, but you need a stable board to keep up with the Corp.
Also, clarify something for me, because the rules don't seem to - some of the agendas talk about putting a hosted agenda counter on the card when you score it - but the rules say hosted counters are removed when cards leave the play area. How are you ever supposed to use those hosted counters in a useful way?
Isn't the scoring area considered the play area still?
Right, put together and given a single test to the below decks. Thought I would put them up for feedback.
Largely I need to get more playing in, though that is currently tough until after Christmas, and it makes me sad.
Criminal Deck
Identity:
Gabriel Santiago: Consummate Professional (Core)
The idea of the deck is to attack fast, with a lot of money and enough card drawing to keep up the momentum. Also it is designed to be a threat to any server, so it features Makers Eyes(R&D), Gabs passive and others(HQ), Bank Jobs(Remote), Sneak Door(Archive). It is all using one set until I get around to buying another.
Weyland Deck V2
Identity:
Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core)
The idea here is to have a great credit flow, variety of ICE and some random surprises in there to keep the runner guessing / being careful. I was unsure of the single cards but with project atlas it makes getting cards needed easier.
Finally, my go at a Haas-Bioroid deck
Identity:
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core)
Your criminal deck is very similar to how I play mine, I use 3 Decoys and no Crash Spaces, and I've been going back and forth between 2 makers eyes and 2 Deja Vu's. I love the Maker's Eyes as I'm a Shaper player at heart, but I really love being able to get back Account Siphons and inside jobs after the corp thinks I've used all of mine. It does seem like 1 console can be incredibly painful if it gets stuck on the bottom of the deck, but thats an unfortunate limitation to the 1 core set. Other then that I think it looks good.
For Weyland I agree with Arctic Lancer, Caduceus and Draco have completely replaced Shadow in my deck, but I don't think your going to lose any games because of those. I'm still personally against the singletons but that could be a playstyle thing. I'm really interested in what you think worked and didn't work after playtesting it, and hope you report back here to let us know.
For Haas Bioroid I like to run as much ice as I can, my current HB deck is running 24 pieces of ice. I would also probably throw in the melanges, but I have a hard time making a corp deck without MMC. I think 3 Adonis and 3 Pads is a lot of credit gen that needs to stay on the board to be effective, but this might just be my irrational hatred of PAD campaign talking. I know Precog is a very popular choice for HB, and it combos very strongly with Accelerated Beta test. Instead I take 2 San San City Grids, being able to install and score an accelerated beta in one turn, or score a Mandatory upgrades faster is too good to give up, which leads to my next point. I think Biotic Labor is incredibly powerful, and has won me several games. But my girlfriend runs HB without it and still wins games, so your mileage may vary. I do think you need more bigger ICE, when you have a 6 point agenda you want it protected by a Heimdall, a Tollbooth, and a Janus, because 6 points lets a runner build up some credits before they run on it.
My Netrunner coreset arrived today, so I headed over to a friend's place to try it out. I went corp (Weylund quick start), and he went runner (Anarch quick start). First game went stupid slow since neither of us bothered to read the rules beforehand (but I won in about 5 rounds by flatlining the runner; he didn't understand what brain damage would do, and neither of us knew it would be so easy to just kill him until I did it).
The next game was much smoother (and a lot longer, jeeze). I lost 8-5 cause I couldn't get enough ice up between his constant viruses and mean AI icebreaker. He stole so many agendas, and I didn't see any way to prevent that once he got all his viruses up and running. I could have flatlined him if I'd been able to tag him (had two scorched earth cards in my HQ for the longest time), but I just never got the chance; my tracer ice came up too late to help.
Definitely excited to play more tho. Is there a better way to deal with viruses than blowing your whole turn to purge counters?
My Netrunner coreset arrived today, so I headed over to a friend's place to try it out. I went corp (Weylund quick start), and he went runner (Anarch quick start). First game went stupid slow since neither of us bothered to read the rules beforehand (but I won in about 5 rounds by flatlining the runner; he didn't understand what brain damage would do, and neither of us knew it would be so easy to just kill him until I did it).
The next game was much smoother (and a lot longer, jeeze). I lost 8-5 cause I couldn't get enough ice up between his constant viruses and mean AI icebreaker. He stole so many agendas, and I didn't see any way to prevent that once he got all his viruses up and running. I could have flatlined him if I'd been able to tag him (had two scorched earth cards in my HQ for the longest time), but I just never got the chance; my tracer ice came up too late to help.
Definitely excited to play more tho. Is there a better way to deal with viruses than blowing your whole turn to purge counters?
The trick to beating Crypsis (AI breaker) is just making deep data forts. Crypsis requires you remove a virus counter or trash him after EACH piece of ICE you break, so if you have four pieces of ice guarding a server, it will take a runner an entire turn to put enough virus counters on Crypsis for it, its also important to remember that Crypsis starts back at Strength 0 for each piece of ICE he encounters, so he gets expensive for breaking ice, A single Hadrian's Wall will cost him 9 bits to break through, and you put an archer in front or behind it and your looking at 2 pieces of ice that requires putting 2 tokens on crypsis first then spending 19 bits to bypass, (18 if hes okay with giving you the two bits from Archer.)
He had managed to trash my Hadrian's earlier by raiding my R&D; I think the second one was at the bottom of the deck right with the Archer so fml. But this is probably the more important part:
He had managed to trash my Hadrian's earlier by raiding my R&D; I think the second one was at the bottom of the deck right with the Archer so fml. But this is probably the more important part:
its also important to remember that Crypsis starts back at Strength 0 for each piece of ICE he encounters
We must have missed this in the rules somewhere. Do all icebreakers work like this?
EDIT: Breakers that can be buffed with creds, obv.
Unless they state otherwise, look at a crypsis or a corroder which say "1 Bit: + 1 Strength" then look at Kates breakers like Gordian Blade or Battering Ram which state "1 bit: +1 Strength for the remainder of this run" So unless it says for the remainder of the run, the strength resets after each piece of ice, with Crypsis Strength 0 and Anarch's weak economy, that could explain why you felt pretty helpless.
He had managed to trash my Hadrian's earlier by raiding my R&D; I think the second one was at the bottom of the deck right with the Archer so fml. But this is probably the more important part:
its also important to remember that Crypsis starts back at Strength 0 for each piece of ICE he encounters
We must have missed this in the rules somewhere. Do all icebreakers work like this?
EDIT: Breakers that can be buffed with creds, obv.
Unless they state otherwise, look at a crypsis or a corroder which say "1 Bit: + 1 Strength" then look at Kates breakers like Gordian Blade or Battering Ram which state "1 bit: +1 Strength for the remainder of this run" So unless it says for the remainder of the run, the strength resets after each piece of ice, with Crypsis Strength 0 and Anarch's weak economy, that could explain why you felt pretty helpless.
He had managed to trash my Hadrian's earlier by raiding my R&D; I think the second one was at the bottom of the deck right with the Archer so fml. But this is probably the more important part:
its also important to remember that Crypsis starts back at Strength 0 for each piece of ICE he encounters
We must have missed this in the rules somewhere. Do all icebreakers work like this?
EDIT: Breakers that can be buffed with creds, obv.
Unless they state otherwise, look at a crypsis or a corroder which say "1 Bit: + 1 Strength" then look at Kates breakers like Gordian Blade or Battering Ram which state "1 bit: +1 Strength for the remainder of this run" So unless it says for the remainder of the run, the strength resets after each piece of ice, with Crypsis Strength 0 and Anarch's weak economy, that could explain why you felt pretty helpless.
Yeah, that'd be it. Thanks dude.
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Is time a gift or punishment?
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I just want to pick out one other thing you said and make sure you understand:
ICE can only be trashed from HQ or R&D through a Demolition Run event, or an Imp token. Otherwise, the runner just sees it, and puts it back where he found it. Same goes for event/ops cards. They have no cost to trash them because you can't trash them (through normal means); it's easy to think of it like influence in that respect - no influence is not the same as zero influence.
@Nullzone I'm not entirely sure about your Corp deck. I don't see how it comes together ... You're light on ICE, and most of it is very easily broken ICE at that, compounded with very little of it actually stopping runs. It looks to me like the runner can thrash any economy you try to start up and then eat your agendas before you ever get to advance them. I figure you're going for a sort of Psychographics strategy here, but I still think you're going to have a really hard time. I mean, look at poor Matrix Analyzer - it doesn't even have a target for advancement besides your agendas, which should either be scored as soon as you play them (go San-San!), or played and Psych'd immediately ...
By all means, test it and let us know. I'm curious how it pans out.
I just want to pick out one other thing you said and make sure you understand:
ICE can only be trashed from HQ or R&D through a Demolition Run event, or an Imp token. Otherwise, the runner just sees it, and puts it back where he found it. Same goes for event/ops cards. They have no cost to trash them because you can't trash them (through normal means); it's easy to think of it like influence in that respect - no influence is not the same as zero influence.
Yeah, he used demo run. I knew he couldn't just trash them.
I just want to pick out one other thing you said and make sure you understand:
ICE can only be trashed from HQ or R&D through a Demolition Run event, or an Imp token. Otherwise, the runner just sees it, and puts it back where he found it. Same goes for event/ops cards. They have no cost to trash them because you can't trash them (through normal means); it's easy to think of it like influence in that respect - no influence is not the same as zero influence.
@Nullzone I'm not entirely sure about your Corp deck. I don't see how it comes together ... You're light on ICE, and most of it is very easily broken ICE at that, compounded with very little of it actually stopping runs. It looks to me like the runner can thrash any economy you try to start up and then eat your agendas before you ever get to advance them. I figure you're going for a sort of Psychographics strategy here, but I still think you're going to have a really hard time. I mean, look at poor Matrix Analyzer - it doesn't even have a target for advancement besides your agendas, which should either be scored as soon as you play them (go San-San!), or played and Psych'd immediately ...
By all means, test it and let us know. I'm curious how it pans out.
It helps to hear that you think there's too little ICE - I wondered about that but wasn't really sure. The only other ICE I can get in there is Wall of Static though
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Well, Wall of Static is a good start. It ends the run, and represents the first possible barrier in your deck. Honestly, I think it's more worth your while than Matrix Analyzer. I'd still look to make room for at least one more that can end the run. If you get WLA, Draco is an easy fit. He's not the strongest ICE, but NBN can at least make that trace worthwhile.
I'm really not comfortable as the corp unless I have at minimum 20 ICE cards in my deck and I typically run the deck about 3-4 cards over the deck size minimum. My HB deck looks something like this...
I've played Magic way too much to even consider going over the deck size minimum. 3-4 cards is huge in a 45 card deck.
Here's another version based on suggestions. I plan to try both but I definitely see the logic in the uselessness of Matrix Analyzer in this setup. Cut it and Snare to make room for Heimdall and Wall of Static.
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
edited December 2012
Here's where you need to modify your thinking about minimum deck size.
Netrunner != Magic. Card draw is far easier in Netrunner, and each side has good reasons to go over the minimum.
From the runner's end, it's pretty straightforward (and something I think will become more likely as each faction gains more in-faction cards it may want to bring to the table): Utility can trump consistency. This is a game all about the unknowns, and both you and your opponent are dealing with different and complex factors in pursuing your end-game. You may well want to go above 45 cards to include one or two copies of a certain card that gets you out of a particular jam. It really doesn't hurt your consistency much at all going from 45 to 48 cards, and you gain adaptability and a bit of extra longevity against net/meat damage. I'd also argue that Netrunner is less a game about finding the single most efficient cards and cramming them together.
For the Corp, going to 49 cards is generally a pretty decent idea. Why? Well, if nothing else, you've shoved 4 more pieces of ICE into your deck, and given your opponent 4 fewer cards that are agendas to pull out of HQ or R&D. Since you also lose the game when you can't draw, you increase your game timer slightly. These are all factors in considering your deck size.
I just wouldn't use 'minimum deck size or bust' as a model. Especially in a game that is in its infancy. Explore the space, find what works for you, not what worked for another game.
[Edit]
Also just looked over your deck - What is Shipment from Kaguya doing? It looks like it has the same deal as Matrix analyzer going on, as you have no ICE that you can strengthen with it, and you still only have agendas to advance otherwise. Replace them with Red Herrings, maybe?
I'm really not comfortable as the corp unless I have at minimum 20 ICE cards in my deck and I typically run the deck about 3-4 cards over the deck size minimum. My HB deck looks something like this...
I don't know that this deck got any help from What Lies Ahead. ZU.13 Key Master is cute but I think I'd rather have Gordian Blade. Meh.
You play a lot of cards in your Shaper deck that I would not bother with. Can you explain why you add Net Shields and Pipelines as both are cards that I believe are poor cards. If there is some theme / strat with your deck that requires them, well, I'd be interested to hear it.
If you can afford to splash, I would say Ninja or another Mimic to replace Pipeline, probably Ninja.
If not... I would ditch the Ice Carver so you can. Ice Carver is less useful for Shaper IMO as it works well with Mimic and Yog along side Parasites and Datasuckers. Go with Battering Rams, Gordian Blades and Ninjas is my view. Unless you really want to splash for Corroders.
To replace net shield, I would say Plascrete Carapace from the first data pack if you want something defensive, this will save you from Scorched Earths but that is about the only real use so it depends on how many SE/Weyland decks you play. - Info below
Place 4 power counters on Plascrete Carapace when it is installed. When there are no power counters left on Plascrete Carapace, trash it.
Hosted power counter: Prevent 1 meat damage.
Quantity: 3
However I would be tempted to add Rabbit Holes in, this would be good against Trace and there is a lot in the first data pack, and to thin your deck and make other cards more likely. It also feeds well to your Aesops if you feel you don't need them.
If you can afford to splash, I would say Ninja or another Mimic to replace Pipeline, probably Ninja.
If not... I would ditch the Ice Carver so you can. Ice Carver is less useful for Shaper IMO as it works well with Mimic and Yog along side Parasites and Datasuckers. Go with Battering Rams, Gordian Blades and Ninjas is my view. Unless you really want to splash for Corroders.
To replace net shield, I would say Plascrete Carapace from the first data pack if you want something defensive, this will save you from Scorched Earths but that is about the only real use so it depends on how many SE/Weyland decks you play. - Info below
Place 4 power counters on Plascrete Carapace when it is installed. When there are no power counters left on Plascrete Carapace, trash it.
Hosted power counter: Prevent 1 meat damage.
Quantity: 3
However I would be tempted to add Rabbit Holes in, this would be good against Trace and there is a lot in the first data pack, and to thin your deck and make other cards more likely. It also feeds well to your Aesops if you feel you don't need them.
What do you think?
These are great ideas. The ICE Carver is just kind of there cause I needed one more card and had some Influence left over. I had kinda scoffed at Plascrete Carapace but when teamed with Aesop's Pawnshop, which helps run a lot of my economy, it doesn't seem so bad. I tried Rabbit Holes before but found much more utility with Akemetsu Mem Chips when paired with the high memory costs of some of the Shaper's programs. I would consider them depending on how my local meta works out. Thanks fr your thoughts, I'll definitely be testing them out.
I'm really not comfortable as the corp unless I have at minimum 20 ICE cards in my deck and I typically run the deck about 3-4 cards over the deck size minimum. My HB deck looks something like this...
And my Shaper deck. I know the Shaper is the weakest faction right now but they have the best ICE Breakers and just seems to click for me.
I don't know that this deck got any help from What Lies Ahead. ZU.13 Key Master is cute but I think I'd rather have Gordian Blade. Meh.
I think Kate is right up there with criminal in power if played right, it might be because I've been playing Kate since release but shes my favorite runner by far, I would drop the ice carver and the mimic to let you get 2 Ninjas. I would also drop the toolbox, I tried running with 3 toolboxes as Kate and just couldn't get over the tempo loss of its 9 bit install cost. Instead just 3 mem chips with a corroder, gordian blade, ninja, and magnum opus as your full rig of programs, which only require you draw 1 of 3 memory chips, alternatively you could use Key Master and no memory chips, but I love Gordian Blade, and having him makes Tinkering useful late game which is a big plus.
Posts
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
Central servers have roots so that upgrades can be installed. Remote servers can have any number of cards installed, provided only one is an agenda/asset.
It's a common tactic of mine (and a focus of my NBN deck) to install 2-3 cards in a remote and let the runner guess what they might be. You can make the runner pay for this by installing cards you know they can't afford to trash, such as putting an unrezed Ash and a PAD Campaign together. San-San is also fantastic for this, when you get the runner thinking they can break in to trash a cheap upgrade and find it staring back at them.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
1. Can a runner see all the cards he'll have access to at once?
2. If they move on from a card, can they decide to go back to it again later on the same run?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, if a runner might be forced to look at the top card of R&D, decide not to trash it, then look at the upgrade and then realize they did in fact want to trash that top card of R&D but couldn't. Or does he just look at all of them and say, I wanna resolve this one first.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
2. No.
"No, you can't look at this whole stack. Pick them one at a time and make your decisions."
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The first loss was against a criminal that managed to keep me broke the entire game through trashing all my melanges immediately and account siphoning me pretty much every time i used beanstalk or hedgefund to build a credit pool back up.
The second was against Noise, I was doing well, I had a posted bounty installed behind an impenetrable data fort, and 2 scorched earth in my hands, the turn before I installed the posted bounty he installed a second medium, which I should have took as a clue to ice up R&D a lot more, but I advanced the posted bounty 3 times thinking I would Scorched Earth him to death next turn, but he ran on my R&D 4 times the next turn, accessing 2 additional cards each time, and managed to get 7 points in one turn through that.
When I get home tonight I'll take a look at the decks you posted and give my thoughts.
Note during Black Friday it went to like $19.
Unless the server in question is Archives (where none of the Ambushes matter anyway).
Corp
Identity:
NBN: Making News (Core)
Total Cards: (45)
Agenda: (10)
AstroScript Pilot Program (Core) x2
Breaking News (Core) x2
Priority Requisition (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x3
Asset: (9)
PAD Campaign (Core) x3
Melange Mining Corp (Core) x2
Snare! (Core) x2
Adonis Campaign (Core) x2
ICE: (16)
Data Raven (Core) x3
Matrix Analyzer (Core) x3
Tollbooth (Core) x3
Hunter (Core) x2
Rototurret (Core) x2
Enigma (Core) x3
Operation: (8)
Anonymous Tip (Core) x2
Psychographics (Core) x2
SEA Source (Core) x2
Shipment from Kaguya (Core) x2
Upgrade: (2)
SanSan City Grid (Core) x1
Akitaro Watanabe (Core) x1
Total Agenda Points: 21
Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 6
Jinteki: 6
NBN: 33
The Weyland Consortium: 2
Runner
Identity:
Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)
Total Cards: (45)
Event: (21)
Forged Activation Orders (Core) x3
Diesel (Core) x3
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Easy Mark (Core) x3
Tinkering (Core) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Modded (Core) x2
Infiltration (Core) x1
Hardware: (7)
Akamatsu Mem Chip (Core) x2
Rabbit Hole (Core) x2
The Personal Touch (Core) x2
The Toolbox (Core) x1
Program: (9)
Gordian Blade (Core) x3
Battering Ram (Core) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x2
Pipeline (Core) x2
Resource: (8)
Sacrificial Construct (Core) x2
Wyldside (Core) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3
Aesop's Pawnshop (Core) x1
Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 6
Criminal: 9
Shaper: 61
No idea how well they'll do. This is just based on my instinct after a few games. Open to suggestions if you have any; definitely want to grab a datapack and see if I can improve on them though.
A particular thing I'd like feedback on - the random singleton Infiltration in my runner deck, I just put it in to make 45, is there something any of you would suggest differently? (I don't put any stock in Net Shield, even against a Jinteki player it seems pretty easy to work around net damage and the card is all but dead against corps who find other ways to deal damage anyway)
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
There's an argument to be made for Special Order in that vein, I'd have to play with it to see what other OOF cards end up being weaker than I want them to be to determine what to remove.
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
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Isn't the scoring area considered the play area still?
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
Your criminal deck is very similar to how I play mine, I use 3 Decoys and no Crash Spaces, and I've been going back and forth between 2 makers eyes and 2 Deja Vu's. I love the Maker's Eyes as I'm a Shaper player at heart, but I really love being able to get back Account Siphons and inside jobs after the corp thinks I've used all of mine. It does seem like 1 console can be incredibly painful if it gets stuck on the bottom of the deck, but thats an unfortunate limitation to the 1 core set. Other then that I think it looks good.
For Weyland I agree with Arctic Lancer, Caduceus and Draco have completely replaced Shadow in my deck, but I don't think your going to lose any games because of those. I'm still personally against the singletons but that could be a playstyle thing. I'm really interested in what you think worked and didn't work after playtesting it, and hope you report back here to let us know.
For Haas Bioroid I like to run as much ice as I can, my current HB deck is running 24 pieces of ice. I would also probably throw in the melanges, but I have a hard time making a corp deck without MMC. I think 3 Adonis and 3 Pads is a lot of credit gen that needs to stay on the board to be effective, but this might just be my irrational hatred of PAD campaign talking. I know Precog is a very popular choice for HB, and it combos very strongly with Accelerated Beta test. Instead I take 2 San San City Grids, being able to install and score an accelerated beta in one turn, or score a Mandatory upgrades faster is too good to give up, which leads to my next point. I think Biotic Labor is incredibly powerful, and has won me several games. But my girlfriend runs HB without it and still wins games, so your mileage may vary. I do think you need more bigger ICE, when you have a 6 point agenda you want it protected by a Heimdall, a Tollbooth, and a Janus, because 6 points lets a runner build up some credits before they run on it.
The next game was much smoother (and a lot longer, jeeze). I lost 8-5 cause I couldn't get enough ice up between his constant viruses and mean AI icebreaker. He stole so many agendas, and I didn't see any way to prevent that once he got all his viruses up and running. I could have flatlined him if I'd been able to tag him (had two scorched earth cards in my HQ for the longest time), but I just never got the chance; my tracer ice came up too late to help.
Definitely excited to play more tho. Is there a better way to deal with viruses than blowing your whole turn to purge counters?
The trick to beating Crypsis (AI breaker) is just making deep data forts. Crypsis requires you remove a virus counter or trash him after EACH piece of ICE you break, so if you have four pieces of ice guarding a server, it will take a runner an entire turn to put enough virus counters on Crypsis for it, its also important to remember that Crypsis starts back at Strength 0 for each piece of ICE he encounters, so he gets expensive for breaking ice, A single Hadrian's Wall will cost him 9 bits to break through, and you put an archer in front or behind it and your looking at 2 pieces of ice that requires putting 2 tokens on crypsis first then spending 19 bits to bypass, (18 if hes okay with giving you the two bits from Archer.)
We must have missed this in the rules somewhere. Do all icebreakers work like this?
EDIT: Breakers that can be buffed with creds, obv.
Unless they state otherwise, look at a crypsis or a corroder which say "1 Bit: + 1 Strength" then look at Kates breakers like Gordian Blade or Battering Ram which state "1 bit: +1 Strength for the remainder of this run" So unless it says for the remainder of the run, the strength resets after each piece of ice, with Crypsis Strength 0 and Anarch's weak economy, that could explain why you felt pretty helpless.
Welp. Woops.
Yeah, that'd be it. Thanks dude.
ICE can only be trashed from HQ or R&D through a Demolition Run event, or an Imp token. Otherwise, the runner just sees it, and puts it back where he found it. Same goes for event/ops cards. They have no cost to trash them because you can't trash them (through normal means); it's easy to think of it like influence in that respect - no influence is not the same as zero influence.
@Nullzone I'm not entirely sure about your Corp deck. I don't see how it comes together ... You're light on ICE, and most of it is very easily broken ICE at that, compounded with very little of it actually stopping runs. It looks to me like the runner can thrash any economy you try to start up and then eat your agendas before you ever get to advance them. I figure you're going for a sort of Psychographics strategy here, but I still think you're going to have a really hard time. I mean, look at poor Matrix Analyzer - it doesn't even have a target for advancement besides your agendas, which should either be scored as soon as you play them (go San-San!), or played and Psych'd immediately ...
By all means, test it and let us know. I'm curious how it pans out.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Yeah, he used demo run. I knew he couldn't just trash them.
It helps to hear that you think there's too little ICE - I wondered about that but wasn't really sure. The only other ICE I can get in there is Wall of Static though
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder
Identity:
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core)
Total Cards: (48)
Agenda: (9)
Accelerated Beta Test (Core) x3
Priority Requisition (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x3
Asset: (11)
Adonis Campaign (Core) x3
Snare! (Core) x3
PAD Campaign (Core) x3
Melange Mining Corp (Core) x2
ICE: (20)
Enigma (Core) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core) x2
Ichi 1.0 (Core) x3
Rototurret (Core) x3
Tollbooth (Core) x3
Viktor 1.0 (Core) x3
Wall of Static (Core) x3
Operation: (6)
Biotic Labor (Core) x3
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Upgrade: (2)
Corporate Troubleshooter (Core) x2
Total Agenda Points: 21
Influence Values Totals - Haas-Bioroid: 39 Jinteki: 6 NBN: 6 The Weyland Consortium: 0
I need to update for What Lies Ahead but I do pretty well with this.
And my Shaper deck. I know the Shaper is the weakest faction right now but they have the best ICE Breakers and just seems to click for me.
Identity:
Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)
Total Cards: (45)
Event: (19)
Diesel (Core) x3
Infiltration (Core) x3
Modded (Core) x2
Special Order (Core) x2
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x3
Tinkering (Core) x3
Hardware: (7)
Akamatsu Mem Chip (Core) x3
Cyberfeeder (Core) x3
The Toolbox (Core) x1
Program: (13)
Corroder (Core) x2
Crypsis (Core) x2
Gordian Blade (Core) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x2
Mimic (Core) x1
Net Shield (Core) x2
Pipeline (Core) x2
Resource: (6)
Aesop's Pawnshop (Core) x2
Armitage Codebusting (Core) x3
Ice Carver (Core) x1
Influence Values Totals - Anarch: 11 Criminal: 4 Shaper: 51
I don't know that this deck got any help from What Lies Ahead. ZU.13 Key Master is cute but I think I'd rather have Gordian Blade. Meh.
Here's another version based on suggestions. I plan to try both but I definitely see the logic in the uselessness of Matrix Analyzer in this setup. Cut it and Snare to make room for Heimdall and Wall of Static.
Identity:
NBN: Making News (Core)
Total Cards: (45)
Agenda: (10)
AstroScript Pilot Program (Core) x2
Breaking News (Core) x2
Priority Requisition (Core) x3
Private Security Force (Core) x3
Asset: (7)
PAD Campaign (Core) x3
Melange Mining Corp (Core) x2
Adonis Campaign (Core) x2
ICE: (18)
Data Raven (Core) x3
Tollbooth (Core) x3
Hunter (Core) x2
Rototurret (Core) x2
Enigma (Core) x3
Wall of Static (Core) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core) x2
Operation: (8)
Anonymous Tip (Core) x2
Psychographics (Core) x2
SEA Source (Core) x2
Shipment from Kaguya (Core) x2
Upgrade: (2)
SanSan City Grid (Core) x1
Akitaro Watanabe (Core) x1
Total Agenda Points: 21
Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 10
Jinteki: 2
NBN: 27
The Weyland Consortium: 2
A list of things, should you be of the gifting persuasion
Netrunner != Magic. Card draw is far easier in Netrunner, and each side has good reasons to go over the minimum.
From the runner's end, it's pretty straightforward (and something I think will become more likely as each faction gains more in-faction cards it may want to bring to the table): Utility can trump consistency. This is a game all about the unknowns, and both you and your opponent are dealing with different and complex factors in pursuing your end-game. You may well want to go above 45 cards to include one or two copies of a certain card that gets you out of a particular jam. It really doesn't hurt your consistency much at all going from 45 to 48 cards, and you gain adaptability and a bit of extra longevity against net/meat damage. I'd also argue that Netrunner is less a game about finding the single most efficient cards and cramming them together.
For the Corp, going to 49 cards is generally a pretty decent idea. Why? Well, if nothing else, you've shoved 4 more pieces of ICE into your deck, and given your opponent 4 fewer cards that are agendas to pull out of HQ or R&D. Since you also lose the game when you can't draw, you increase your game timer slightly. These are all factors in considering your deck size.
I just wouldn't use 'minimum deck size or bust' as a model. Especially in a game that is in its infancy. Explore the space, find what works for you, not what worked for another game.
[Edit]
Also just looked over your deck - What is Shipment from Kaguya doing? It looks like it has the same deal as Matrix analyzer going on, as you have no ICE that you can strengthen with it, and you still only have agendas to advance otherwise. Replace them with Red Herrings, maybe?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
You play a lot of cards in your Shaper deck that I would not bother with. Can you explain why you add Net Shields and Pipelines as both are cards that I believe are poor cards. If there is some theme / strat with your deck that requires them, well, I'd be interested to hear it.
If not... I would ditch the Ice Carver so you can. Ice Carver is less useful for Shaper IMO as it works well with Mimic and Yog along side Parasites and Datasuckers. Go with Battering Rams, Gordian Blades and Ninjas is my view. Unless you really want to splash for Corroders.
To replace net shield, I would say Plascrete Carapace from the first data pack if you want something defensive, this will save you from Scorched Earths but that is about the only real use so it depends on how many SE/Weyland decks you play. - Info below
Hosted power counter: Prevent 1 meat damage.
Quantity: 3
What do you think?
These are great ideas. The ICE Carver is just kind of there cause I needed one more card and had some Influence left over. I had kinda scoffed at Plascrete Carapace but when teamed with Aesop's Pawnshop, which helps run a lot of my economy, it doesn't seem so bad. I tried Rabbit Holes before but found much more utility with Akemetsu Mem Chips when paired with the high memory costs of some of the Shaper's programs. I would consider them depending on how my local meta works out. Thanks fr your thoughts, I'll definitely be testing them out.
I think Kate is right up there with criminal in power if played right, it might be because I've been playing Kate since release but shes my favorite runner by far, I would drop the ice carver and the mimic to let you get 2 Ninjas. I would also drop the toolbox, I tried running with 3 toolboxes as Kate and just couldn't get over the tempo loss of its 9 bit install cost. Instead just 3 mem chips with a corroder, gordian blade, ninja, and magnum opus as your full rig of programs, which only require you draw 1 of 3 memory chips, alternatively you could use Key Master and no memory chips, but I love Gordian Blade, and having him makes Tinkering useful late game which is a big plus.