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[25 years of 真・女神転生/Persona] SMTIV out! Gaians wanted, see Lucy for details.

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Posts

  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    From what I've seen, she looks like the worst thing to happen to Persona since Revelations.

    She's terrible, but in the end she doesn't detract from the game that much.

    I'd just ignore her entirely if I wasn't require to do her goddamn SLink to get the cool new epilogue.

    Still probably easily the least likeable character in the game. The only good thing she did was make me like Margaret more on account of Marg's incessant trolling.

    Temperance mum is the worst character in the game. I always pick the option that is "No, what? Are you stupid?" when she goes on about how great it is that people's lives are basically predetermined from birth and how she's all keen for this weird cult.

    E: Look at all these fuckin' awful totps.

    Shen on
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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Shen wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    From what I've seen, she looks like the worst thing to happen to Persona since Revelations.

    She's terrible, but in the end she doesn't detract from the game that much.

    I'd just ignore her entirely if I wasn't require to do her goddamn SLink to get the cool new epilogue.

    Still probably easily the least likeable character in the game. The only good thing she did was make me like Margaret more on account of Marg's incessant trolling.

    Temperance mum is the worst character in the game. I always pick the option that is "No, what? Are you stupid?" when she goes on about how great it is that people's lives are basically predetermined from birth and how she's all keen for this weird cult.

    E: Look at all these fuckin' awful totps.

    No. Temperance mum is the worst person (antagonist aside) in the game. She's still a better character than Marie because one is a fucking awful archetype for nerds to beat off to and the other is a plausible, if awful, human being.

    Fiaryn on
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  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    A valid distinction, duly accepted.

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    On a lighter note:

    http://www.siliconera.com/2013/01/11/is-atlus-p-studio-connected-to-persona/

    pstudio1_thumb.jpg

    It's on the back of P4G's box too.

    The time is nigh.

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Man I really am not understanding the hate here. I found her perfectly likable with a solid character arc. And she added a lot to the greater story and fleshed things out that needed to be fleshed out. And I feel like the whole tsundere thing is being overblown here.

    Like the rage I'm seeing directed at her comes across as baffling to me. I really, really, really don't get it at all.

  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    It's probably the fact that she can't go two sentences without declaring that she hates you or you're stupid but HAHA SHE ACTUALLY LOVES YOU, WOMEN AM I RIGHT? DON'T BE FOOLED BY THEIR UPPITY AND OPINIONATED NATURE.

    The gimmick is run so far into the ground it erupts from the opposite side of the planet and spirals off into the heavens to piss in God's Eye.

    Fiaryn on
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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I didn't particularly like Marie's S-Link but I thought the actual story relevant stuff with her was pretty well done. Overall, she was certainly no worse than Elizabeth was (what is this thing you call love?).

    RainbowDespair on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I think you are reading into some sort of statement about women that straight up isn't there at all.

    It's not a "lol women, they don't mean what they say. She says she hates you but that always means they love you!" thing.

    It's a "this character is emotionally guarded and uncultured and thus responds to anything potentially humiliating by lashing out in a comedic and obvious way" thing.

    Like, she never "declares" she hates you or anything, her outbursts are contextualized in a comedic and insincere fashion. She doesn't do the whole typical "I am constantly going to act like I don't like you and don't want you around but secretly I feel the opposite" tsundere bit much, once the ball gets rolling she's generally friendly and openly wanting to spend time with Yu, social awkwardness notwithstanding. She's only mean when she's pissed off or embarrassed, which is pretty normal and not exactly fetish fuel. Yeah, they use the whole comedic outburst thing a little too much, but it's not really done in the kind of context you're implying it is.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    I can come up with 3 reasons why Marie is an okay character.

    1. She's not Aigis.

    2. The shopping scene with Chie and Yukiko.

    3. http://youtu.be/N0KGRjTIa7I

    Although I will admit the cutscene after her dungeon makes no sense. How did we even end up there anyway? I blame Teddie for that scene existing though, not Marie.

  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I think you are reading into some sort of statement about women that straight up isn't there at all.

    It's not a "lol women, they don't mean what they say. She says she hates you but that always means they love you!" thing.

    It's a "this character is emotionally guarded and uncultured and thus responds to anything potentially humiliating by lashing out in a comedic and obvious way" thing.

    Like, she never "declares" she hates you or anything, her outbursts are contextualized in a comedic and insincere fashion. She doesn't do the whole typical "I am constantly going to act like I don't like you and don't want you around but secretly I feel the opposite" tsundere bit much, once the ball gets rolling she's generally friendly and openly wanting to spend time with Yu, social awkwardness notwithstanding. She's only mean when she's pissed off or embarrassed, which is pretty normal and not exactly fetish fuel. Yeah, they use the whole comedic outburst thing a little too much, but it's not really done in the kind of context you're implying it is.

    These are flat out untrue statements. She does this shit constantly, up to the very end of her damned dungeon. You also forgot the part where "or embarrassed" constitutes 70% of the time, because the entire tsundere archetype revolves around being constantly flustered by your inability to show your ~TRUE FEELINGS~ for lazy comedy points. Repeating the same gimmick over and over again makes it funny right?

    Sadly no, it's just incredibly tiresome because she's incapable of acting like a functioning human being of any sort. She is a caricature of a character that the devs ship you with. If she well and truly moved past that crap it would be tolerable, but she doesn't.

    Fiaryn on
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  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    I think Marie has a lot of funny moments, particularly with Rise. Her S Link doesn't really go anywhere though, you spend 3 or 4 of them doing nothing but "So what's up with this comb? Ouch, headache". Everything else is ripped off from Elizabeth in P3, and Lizzie wasn't a link because the interactions are too shallow and comic relief-y to really count as character growth.

    The context her character adds to the game is great, but the chosen tsundere personality chosen for her doesn't gel very well.
    She's part of Izanami and meant to encourage mankind to do its best, but ended up losing her way and her memories. How does that tie in to a tsundere attitude? It doesn't, the choice is arbitrary (or calculated to appeal to a certain demographic of fan). And the poetry, funny as it was, didn't serve any purpose.

    Also, she's just overwhelmingly anime. I mean, "Ihateyoustupidmarmalademuffin"? And that bath scene? Bleh.

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Also, there's supposed to be a big reveal in Famitsu next week that's 'long awaited'.

    Popular(hopeful) opinion is that it's P5.


    Even though hating on P3&4 is the 'cool thing' to do for old school SMT fans as of late, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't deliriously hyped up for this.

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    You know, I'm actually willing to call Aigis a better character than Marie because I'll grant that Aigis does get over the BEEP BOOP I AM A ROBOT thing and, after a certain point, you notice that whenever she's acting BEEP BOOP ROBOT she's actually being passive aggressive and snarky.

    Which is legitimately funny. Aigis' SLink is still atrocious for other reasons though.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Well sorry dude, I think you are massively over-exaggerating that aspect of her character and willingly ignoring her character arc because you hate the archetype used to launch it. To each his own. Pretty much every character in the game has origins in an overplayed anime stereotype, and as far as I'm concerned Marie is like the rest in that the writers took that stereotype and built a solid character around it.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    I never did Aigis' SLink, I had a more important new addition to hang out with.

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    To be fair to my statement I also never played enough of FES to even get to her link they added. I only played The Answer, so that was enough to confirm that I can't stand her. Nothing comedic happens there.

  • Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Also, there's supposed to be a big reveal in Famitsu next week that's 'long awaited'.

    Popular(hopeful) opinion is that it's P5.


    Even though hating on P3&4 is the 'cool thing' to do for old school SMT fans as of late, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't deliriously hyped up for this.

    Any more info on that? Is it confirmed to be Atlus / SMT related?

    Add me on Switch: 7795-5541-4699
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Marie's character arc would be decent if it weren't buried in pointless faffing about consisting largely of her being socially incompetent, possibly to pander to Japanese shut in otaku who are likely in the same ballpark of social graces. Got a comb, ow headache, ow headache, ow headache, no progress, well at least I can make new memories. Looking forward to the future and not letting her past which she may or may not be able to do anything about weigh her down is all well and good. It's the execution that's sorely, sorely lacking.

    Fiaryn on
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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Aigis was pretty funny in Arena.

  • GilderGilder Aw snap Macaroni PartyRegistered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Also, there's supposed to be a big reveal in Famitsu next week that's 'long awaited'.

    Popular(hopeful) opinion is that it's P5.


    Even though hating on P3&4 is the 'cool thing' to do for old school SMT fans as of late, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't deliriously hyped up for this.

    Any more info on that? Is it confirmed to be Atlus / SMT related?

    It's going to be something like "Persona character outfits confirmed for Monster Hunter 4!" because come on, big news in Japan has to be concerning MH.

    Actually that would be cool. I want to kill a Rathalos as Kanji with my flattened Taiko drum.

  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Marie's character arc would be decent if it weren't buried in pointless faffing about consisting largely of her being socially incompetent, possibly to pander to Japanese shut in otaku who are likely in the same ballpark of social graces. Got a comb, ow headache, ow headache, ow headache, no progress, well at least I can make new memories. Looking forward to the future and not letting her past which she may or may not be able to do anything about weigh her down is all well and good. It's the execution that's sorely, sorely lacking.

    And I thought the execution was fine and provided for lots of enjoyable moments such as the already-mentioned shopping scene. What you call pointless faffing about I call enjoyable bonding.

    I liked seeing her get integrated into the circle of friends and slowly tear down those walls, and I liked the climax of her character arc in her dungeon(though I didn't enjoy the actual dungeon itself very much). There was plenty of good stuff in there.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Also, there's supposed to be a big reveal in Famitsu next week that's 'long awaited'.

    Popular(hopeful) opinion is that it's P5.


    Even though hating on P3&4 is the 'cool thing' to do for old school SMT fans as of late, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't deliriously hyped up for this.

    Any more info on that? Is it confirmed to be Atlus / SMT related?

    No indicator whatsoever, but the copyright of the Persona Team logo is suspect, isn't it?

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    My interpretation of Marie is that you people complain too much.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Maz- wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Also, there's supposed to be a big reveal in Famitsu next week that's 'long awaited'.

    Popular(hopeful) opinion is that it's P5.


    Even though hating on P3&4 is the 'cool thing' to do for old school SMT fans as of late, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't deliriously hyped up for this.

    Any more info on that? Is it confirmed to be Atlus / SMT related?

    No indicator whatsoever, but the copyright of the Persona Team logo is suspect, isn't it?

    Pshaw, it's clearly going to be a new Bumpy Trot game.

    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Marie's character arc would be decent if it weren't buried in pointless faffing about consisting largely of her being socially incompetent, possibly to pander to Japanese shut in otaku who are likely in the same ballpark of social graces. Got a comb, ow headache, ow headache, ow headache, no progress, well at least I can make new memories. Looking forward to the future and not letting her past which she may or may not be able to do anything about weigh her down is all well and good. It's the execution that's sorely, sorely lacking.

    And I thought the execution was fine and provided for lots of enjoyable moments such as the already-mentioned shopping scene. What you call pointless faffing about I call enjoyable bonding.

    I liked seeing her get integrated into the circle of friends and slowly tear down those walls, and I liked the climax of her character arc in her dungeon(though I didn't enjoy the actual dungeon itself very much). There was plenty of good stuff in there.

    Except she didn't learn anything or tear down much of any walls and, right down to her dungeon, is still all WHAT IS THIS HUMAN EMOTION YOU CALL...FFFFFRIENDSHIP? almost verbatim. It is cheesy as hell and demonstrates a commitment to running her gimmick into the ground for cheap laughs more than a commitment to character growth.

    Fiaryn on
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    Ten years down the road, Nanako as MC.

    Or a few years later, I wouldn't mind seeing a college-era Persona game with a mix of the cast from 3&4.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Yeah sorry I don't agree with that at all. The character clearly grew and opened up. Just because she didn't completely come out of her shell doesn't mean nothing of substance was gained. Her situation is no different than how other characters didn't completely move away from their social problems at rank ten either.

    The Marie at the end of the game isn't the same character she was at the start, but she isn't radically different, either. Which can be said for the whole cast and it's one of the things I like about Persona 4. Persona 4 has always been more about figuring out what your problems are and facing the fact that they exist and moving forward than it is about getting rid of that part of you. Marie's arc works in the same way everyone else's does, and leaves her off in a position where she can grow as a person and be happier. That works just fine for me.

    And, like, if she hadn't grown as a person then her whole dungeon scenario would have been totally different.

  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    God willing it'll be a new cast. I don't trust the writers enough to bring back the P3/4 cast much, I just know it'll end up some kind of terrible fanfiction.

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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Arena was written pretty well for what it was.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    I think so too, but P4's stories were way, way too samey. The P3 content and Labrys' scenes were great.

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Yeah it was a little grating to replay modified versions of the same story multiple times.

    The main plot itself was nothing special but for something that was mainly there to justify the fighting game premise I thought they did pretty well with it. The character stuff was super entertaining, and lots of good humor.

    I loved the running joke about how ridiculous Akihiko and Mitsuru looked.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    I like the theory that Mitsuru's attendants dress her that way as a joke.

    y3H3Fa4.png
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    I envisioned it as her attempt to look like a badass and not really knowing what she's doing.

    To be honest I think she does look pretty badass but in a hilariously ridiculous way.

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    God willing it'll be a new cast. I don't trust the writers enough to bring back the P3/4 cast much, I just know it'll end up some kind of terrible fanfiction.

    it will be a hiimdaisy fail... that is all...

    NotoriusBEN on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    God willing it'll be a new cast. I don't trust the writers enough to bring back the P3/4 cast much, I just know it'll end up some kind of terrible fanfiction.

    it will be a hiimdaisy fail... that is all...

    The P3 heroes were great in Arena, and it totally redeemed Aigis for me. The P4 heroes were a disaster, save for Yu. Yukiko and Yosuke regressed, Kanji was in full-blown hiimdaisy mode, and Chie's story was outright cruel to her. Naoto was badass but kinda carried everyone.

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  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    God willing it'll be a new cast. I don't trust the writers enough to bring back the P3/4 cast much, I just know it'll end up some kind of terrible fanfiction.

    it will be a hiimdaisy fail... that is all...

    The P3 heroes were great in Arena, and it totally redeemed Aigis for me. The P4 heroes were a disaster, save for Yu. Yukiko and Yosuke regressed, Kanji was in full-blown hiimdaisy mode, and Chie's story was outright cruel to her. Naoto was badass but kinda carried everyone.

    And this is precisely why I have no faith in a Persona 5 that features an excess of returning characters. Ideally I want no one returning. Except Igor.

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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Fiaryn wrote: »
    I'm really anxious to see if P5 will be building on what Arena set up or be it's own semi self contained thing with a totally fresh cast.

    I'm pretty torn on what I want it to be. Something new would be cool but at the same time I am really, REALLY invested in the current 3/4 continuity and I really wanna see where it goes next.

    God willing it'll be a new cast. I don't trust the writers enough to bring back the P3/4 cast much, I just know it'll end up some kind of terrible fanfiction.

    it will be a hiimdaisy fail... that is all...

    The P3 heroes were great in Arena, and it totally redeemed Aigis for me. The P4 heroes were a disaster, save for Yu. Yukiko and Yosuke regressed, Kanji was in full-blown hiimdaisy mode, and Chie's story was outright cruel to her. Naoto was badass but kinda carried everyone.

    And this is precisely why I have no faith in a Persona 5 that features an excess of returning characters. Ideally I want no one returning. Except Igor.

    Y'know, for Christmas I gave my brother P4G and Arena. He is currently loving P4G to death and is taking a break from Arena so he can finish P4G. I told him to hold off until he at least found the murderer. It's his first SMT game, and the first JRPG he has played in years.

    He finally asked me who his girlfriend was in Arena, and I had to give him the talk. I had to explain to my dear brother what a Japanese dating sim is, what a shipping war is, and how discussing relationships, in a story about relationships are a sacred line the characters don't cross, and how any meaningful character development of any kind not related to relationships can't happen either, thereby emotionally stunting every character. I felt unclean. His only comment was "wow Japan is weird lol."

    Golden played up "we are growing and our lives are changing," and if genuine changes happen in the future, it could be interesting. But if locking the Investigation Team in immature stasis is what it takes to see them in more games, then God yes it's time for them to go away.

    Cantido on
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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    The one thing I found absolutely hilarious about P4A, was that Yu is going back to visit his best friends, and try to cram another year into a binge week of partying...
    and he's back in another mystery before he even steps off the Yaso-Inaba station rails.

    Im sure Yu wore this face when he got the call:
    639px-Zombozo_frowny_face.PNG

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Well, you can clearly see Mem Aleph being worshiped, so it's safe to say there's connections.

    Woah, wait, what?

    You know, I kind of want to go into a spoiler blackout for SMT4 because I don't want to get too hyped for a game I might never see.

    But still... black Demonica, seemingly important Gaian character... yeah, I'm hyped already.

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