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What am I not getting about alcohol use? - LOCK ME

HenroidHenroid Radio DemonInternet HellRegistered User regular
edited December 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
Edit - I am beyond the ability to discuss this rationally and am having a traumatic emotional response to something. Help me not make any mistakes and lock this.

I can't fucking take it anymore. I have to get this off my chest. Again. Alcohol use. Fucking. Blows nuts.

It upsets me. It upsets me to the point of tears in some cases. Because in damn near every case of people I know who drink, they change dramatically for that period of being drunk. And when they're sober, they're fine with seeking that change in personality. They are aware of everything but continue to do it. And I don't. Fucking. Get it.

I'm sick and tired of the fucking excuses of, "Oh, it makes everything else more fun!" If things are fun to begin with, what's with the need of alcohol in the equation? If you're having a blast with your friends watching a film, or just having a conversation, or while out camping, or whatever the fuck, why or how does alcohol enhance that? I got railed on this forum in the past for suggesting that alcohol alters the state of mind, but when it came to that question I just asked, all the responses were, "It just does." And fuck trying to be a nice guy about it, here it is - I'm pretty sure people are in fucking denial about why they drink.

We know that alcohol screws with people's decision making. We know of all the fucking trouble it leads to and the health problems that come with it. That's not extrapolation, that's fucking fact. But for some reason, those factors make things more 'fun'? What am I not getting? Please, someone enlighten me, because the one time I was drunk in my life, it resulted in the same thing alcohol does to the rest of my family - a needlessly confrontational asshole.

Not that everyone becomes that personality when drunk, but very few people seem to maintain themselves and who they are when drunk. Everyone else becomes something else. And I lose all ability to relate to friends and family or other loved ones. I'm suddenly meeting strangers. A person who was more docile and humble will become some freakish attention whore. Someone who is quick-witted and hysterical will become some mutated hate-monger. And these changes are perceived as good. Not just by the people themselves, but by other people who drink, who may or may not be present. "It's good to cut loose man!" What? To the extent of embarrassing yourself massively? To causing strife in relationships you have with others, either through a senseless argument or actual physical confrontation?

And the permissive attitudes toward alcohol abuse fucking astound me. I'd written on this forum before about my best friend - or former at this point - who had gotten black-out drunk one night. The next day, he wrote about his regret, and I responded to him in support of cutting back on drinking. Not stopping drinking. I promoted moderation. And what do I get in response? An angry tirade about how I'm trying to be his mom, rather than a friend urging caution. This happened twice, and when the second instance of this happened earlier this year, I said "Fuck it" and haven't spoken to him sense. I'm tired of trying to reason with an alcoholic who doesn't want my help. I'm tired of urging someone who, when sober, recognizes a problem in his life. But when it comes close to evening time, to socialize, fuck all those realizations and rationalizations. So when I come to the forum about the fight, what do people tell me, in Help / Advice no less? They tell me I was in the wrong. I was wrong, because in a moment of clarity for my friend, I urged controlled behavior.

But the absolute worst thing about alcohol is the seething behavior of trying to get other people to do it. Even after people know about my reason for not drinking anymore, when they're drunk, they seem to forget it all and say, "Come on Henry, just ONE drink!" It is a sick behavior. And it poisons lives. Over the last six, seven years, I've watched someone very close to me eventually get talked into drinking. And now I have to endure the evenings she's around to talk to, but is tanked. We don't have the same sorts of conversations when she's tanked, and they're not fun. And her slurring and change in personality fucking hurt. But after the above episode with my best friend, now it's like... I've been trained by people - my friends, family, and internet - that trying to convince her to take it easy on the drinking (not even stopping) is wrong of me to do.

So fuck me I guess. Fuck me hard.

Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
Henroid on
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Posts

  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Getting black-out drunk twice in a year does not an alcoholic make, Henroid.
    Alcoholism (alcohol dependence) and alcohol abuse are two different forms of problem drinking.

    •Alcoholism is when you have signs of physical addiction to alcohol and continues to drink, despite problems with physical health, mental health, and social, family, or job responsibilities. Alcohol may control your life and relationships.

    •Alcohol abuse is when your drinking leads to problems, but not physical addiction.

    It sounds like a bit of abuse, which is pretty normal depending on age. I'm not saying regularly blacking out is normal, but getting sloshed when you're young is something that happens and most do not find it plesant and will seek to avoid it happening later on.


    It seems you're not a fan of hanging out with people who get drunk. That's cool and is, in fact, pretty normal.

    I absolutely cannot be around my friends if they're getting high. So, I tell them that I'll see them later and pack it up. I don't blame them. They get enjoyment out of it, but it isn't my thing.


    Most people have their inhibitions lowered when drinking. It makes them more prone to show emotions (they may have been keeping inside) and in some cases, over emotion. Part of being drunk is psychological in nature having naught to do with the mind altering effects. They use it as an excuse to act different for a little while and it can be extremely cathartic.

    Like any drug (Yep, booze is a drug, folks) it can be addictive and easily prone to abuse.

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Getting black-out drunk twice in a year does not an alcoholic make, Henroid.

    Saying there were two occasions where I spoke to a friend about him getting black-out drunk doesn't imply it (the blacking out) happened only twice a year. If you must know it happens a lot with him.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It seems you're not a fan of hanging out with people who get drunk. That's cool and is, in fact, pretty normal.

    I absolutely cannot be around my friends if they're getting high. So, I tell them that I'll see them later and pack it up. I don't blame them. They get enjoyment out of it, but it isn't my thing.

    It does suck when you have a lot of friends who seem to always want to be at least decently buzzed whenever they go out, though. And while getting high on the regular, at least publicly, is somewhat discouraged by both the law and social norms there's really nothing much to stop or even significantly slow down those that need to drink when they do anything and everything.

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    I don't drink either. My family loves their alcohol - I wouldn't call them alcoholics by any means, but there's always at least one person drunk at every family gathering. They become insufferable. I don't get it.

    I've never touched the stuff. I've been encouraged to drink by friends and family since before I was of legal drinking age but I've refused every time. Nobody encourages me to smoke cigarettes or pot or do any other drugs that are just as or less harmful than booze, so why does alcohol get a pass?

    I've never liked the idea of recreationally ingesting a chemical that alters the way my brain works. Why would I want to lose control of myself? I don't know what I'll do if I get drunk and that's a scary fucking thought. That isn't cool at all. People make shitty enough judgement calls when they're sober, we certainly don't need to add mind-altering chemicals into the mix.

    So I guess I'm in a similar position as you, Henroid. Though I don't have any particularly awful experiences with alcohol or alcoholics, I still think drinking is dumb. I don't get it, but I don't really want to get it either.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It seems you're not a fan of hanging out with people who get drunk. That's cool and is, in fact, pretty normal.

    I absolutely cannot be around my friends if they're getting high. So, I tell them that I'll see them later and pack it up. I don't blame them. They get enjoyment out of it, but it isn't my thing.

    It does suck when you have a lot of friends who seem to always want to be at least decently buzzed whenever they go out, though. And while getting high on the regular, at least publicly, is somewhat discouraged by both the law and social norms there's really nothing much to stop or even significantly slow down those that need to drink when they do anything and everything.

    My pot using friends generally relax when they do their thing. And they're all pretty mindful of getting the smell on anyone's clothes that isn't smoking with them. And they're also not as pushy about using pot as people get with alcohol. Pot users are polite. I like them.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Sounds like your biggest problem is with jerks, not alcohol.

    AManFromEarthTehSpectreDeadfallDeebaserKetarHakkekagedporowskiAresProphetFeralPurpleMonkeyRisenPhoenixagoajLord_AsmodeusSmrtnik
  • Pirate ViperPirate Viper Registered User regular
    I guess I don't get point of this thread. Your friends drink and you hate it. I mean, what is there to talk about? Do you want us to tell you that you're right or try to convince you that drinking isn't as terrible as you are making it sound?

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It seems you're not a fan of hanging out with people who get drunk. That's cool and is, in fact, pretty normal.

    I absolutely cannot be around my friends if they're getting high. So, I tell them that I'll see them later and pack it up. I don't blame them. They get enjoyment out of it, but it isn't my thing.

    It does suck when you have a lot of friends who seem to always want to be at least decently buzzed whenever they go out, though. And while getting high on the regular, at least publicly, is somewhat discouraged by both the law and social norms there's really nothing much to stop or even significantly slow down those that need to drink when they do anything and everything.

    My pot using friends generally relax when they do their thing. And they're all pretty mindful of getting the smell on anyone's clothes that isn't smoking with them. And they're also not as pushy about using pot as people get with alcohol. Pot users are polite. I like them.

    My wife couldn't stand her old friends when they got high. Apparently they got really annoying and kept trying to force it on her.

    Has your mind been blown?

  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    My pot using friends generally relax when they do their thing. And they're all pretty mindful of getting the smell on anyone's clothes that isn't smoking with them. And they're also not as pushy about using pot as people get with alcohol. Pot users are polite. I like them.
    They absolutely would try to get me to smoke pot with them, without fault.

    Most pot heads I know are the aggressively "weed is a wonder cure" drug and really harp about the shit all the time. Which is fine, but I excuse myself when they're doing their thing, because it isn't for me. I don't try to be apart of that culture.

    I don't know, it seems that you're forcing yourself to hang out with people while they are in a state you don't like and it is causing you to become extremely bitter.

    Put yourself out of the situation more often, maybe? You seem pretty mad and with anger comes bias, so it is hard to for me to determine how much is skewed here.

    Sloth_Sig.png
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    I don't drink either. My family loves their alcohol - I wouldn't call them alcoholics by any means, but there's always at least one person drunk at every family gathering. They become insufferable. I don't get it.

    I should relate the story, and my family's reaction to the story, from Christmas 2010.

    It was the first year my brothers and I were gathering since... maybe since my grandfather died. Which is over a decade ago. And it was the first time I was seeing my brother who had kicked me out of our apartment in California. Everyone was expecting there to be conflict between us. Anyway, the first night at my grandmother's, he isn't there. My two other brothers, step-dad, mother, and I are playing cards. Some Portuguese card game that I was learning for the first time. Everyone is drinking except me. Everyone is having fun. Eventually, I get chewed out over a mistake I made in the game. Just a mistake, I took it back and all, but I got chewed out heavily. So I excused myself to the restroom for a couple minutes to regain my composure. The yelling intensifies outside, and right as I'm returning to the room, my two oldest brothers come to blows, because one got defensive on my behalf over how aggressive the other got.

    The next day, the reactions everyone had was, "Oh, those two have always been at each others' throat over the littlest things." Meanwhile everyone failed to notice that the brazen attitudes only started after the alcohol use kicked in. Throughout the morning and afternoon when people are drinking coffee, juice, soda, or water, everyone is having a blast together. And when alcohol enters the equation, people are loud and confrontational and shitty. Oh but no, it's not the alcohol, it's their history together?

    I don't buy that for one bit. Not from what I saw. Not from what I see of them when they're sober and level-headed.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I guess I don't get point of this thread. Your friends drink and you hate it. I mean, what is there to talk about? Do you want us to tell you that you're right or try to convince you that drinking isn't as terrible as you are making it sound?

    I want to know if I'm the only one who sees alcohol as a behavior altering thing. I want to know if I'm really the asshole I've been accused of being - by my friends and people on this forum - for suggesting people drink a little or some instead of drinking a lot.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    Man try not knowing quite so many assholes as a starting point.

    My drinking and not-drinking friends seem to get along quite well at parties. And as a reasonably frequent DD, there doesn't seem to be a major alteration in personality that I notice with mild to moderate drinking. Like, if you know someone who pounds 10 drinks and then picks fights... that person is actually just straight up a goose.

    And I mean, I wouldn't hang out too often with a kid who gets frequently black-out. That's terrible to be around and that's not a problem you want to try to ride in and fix.

    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    Edit: Oh it's certainly behavior altering, but I wouldn't say it alters personality too much. A reasonable person who drinks a reasonable amount doesn't become an asshole. An asshole who drinks becomes a really open asshole.

    Though frankly, I rarely see real like slurring-lush super-drunk at any of the events I attend on account of being class.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to the International Rescue Committee, the National Immigration Law Center, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the American Civil Liberties Union. There has never been a more urgent moment to do so.
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    edited December 2012
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.


    Edit: Once again...it's hard for me to take this seriously. I think your demeanor has to do with how people take your advice, Henroid. Link me to a post on the forums where someone has called you an asshole for saying they should maybe cut back on the booze? I'd like to see how you approach this topic outside of here because you seem p vitriolic and absolute in this thread.

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    There's nothing wrong at all with thinking people should cut back if they've been drinking too much.

    There is something wrong with saying people who drink are in denial about why they drink.

    TehSpectreAManFromEarthFeralTubularLuggage
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I do resent you guys calling the people in my life "assholes" by the way, because they fucking aren't. Knock it off. You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited December 2012
    I'm sick and tired of the fucking excuses of, "Oh, it makes everything else more fun!"

    "Excuse" is a dirty word. It's "reason" with the connotation that someone did bad.

    Not everyone is affected the same way. I literally drink two gin and tonics and have the confidence or looseness or whatever to be a really fun dancer. I become talkative in ways I'm not otherwise (I'm more willing to talk about stuff I find really boring when I'm sober, which helps me schmooze when I need to), and I'm a marginally better Mario Kart driver for at least a few drinks.

    Some people are touchy about alcohol consumption, I'm sure. Ability to drink is tied to manliness and/or maturity ("I'm not a fucking kid and you're not my mom!") to a lot of people.

    I hear tales of people and I see people acting the fool and getting into fights in bars, but my friends tend to be a lot like me and don't drink to much more than to the point of losing a few inhibitions that make some environments (clubs, boring conversations) more fun than they otherwise would be. At worst, my roommate loves to play this game called "cock, or ball?"* which to be fair is kind of fun after a few drinks.

    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    For myself, I only like to drink if I can be snobbish about it. So, I'll have one gourmet beer and discuss the intricacies of its flavors and compare it to the piss water my friends are drinking just to get drunk. They will say theirs cost less and are just drinking to get drunk and I look at my 8 dollar beer that I am actually enjoying and then at their cube of bud light and I laugh in their faces with my perfectly coherent and stable brain. And probably give their lame asses rides home.

    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.

    Alcohol is dumb and people are dumber. If they aren't being snobbish or requiring the liquid bread for sustenance or need the water within in a steralized manner, then I would suggest sticking with coffee and soda.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I do resent you guys calling the people in my life "assholes" by the way, because they fucking aren't. Knock it off. You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying.

    The stuff they're doing is assholish. And you've been plenty free with your opinions about everyone who drinks alcohol.

    DeebaserFeralTubularLuggageTheBlackWind
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.

    It.. actually, this is super complex. It's super behavior altering, but that is moderated heavily by the culture surrounding it. In cultures where people believe alcohol causes aggression, people get drunk and become super aggressive. In cultures where they believe it makes people just silly, that's what happens. So it's hard to distinguish to physiological behavior alteration from the psychological alteration that comes as a result of expecting an alteration.

    TehSpectredporowski
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Edit: Once again...it's hard for me to take this seriously. I think your demeanor has to do with how people take your advice, Henroid. Link me to a post on the forums where someone has called you an asshole for saying they should maybe cut back on the booze? I'd like to see how you approach this topic outside of here because you seem p vitriolic and absolute in this thread.

    It's something that's happened like a year or two in the past, and I'm an active user on this forum. That's going to be a lot of work.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.

    Obviously.

    And, to go against the grain just a bit, on the "you know too many jerks" argument I'd say that far too often alcohol use tends to encourage behavior that would be considered dickish when sober.

  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
    This is not how helping an alcoholic works.

    They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.

    Sloth_Sig.png
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I do resent you guys calling the people in my life "assholes" by the way, because they fucking aren't. Knock it off. You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying.

    The stuff they're doing is assholish. And you've been plenty free with your opinions about everyone who drinks alcohol.

    Yeah, the permissive attitudes regarding alcohol exist because most people can enjoy a few drinks without becoming insufferable.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    This is one of the things that really annoys me. I don't drink, everyone knows I don't drink, I don't take jabs at other people for drinking, I'll just have a pop, thanks. It's a complete non-issue.

    Except every time I'm at some sort of gathering where there is drinking, it's "Hey Reznik, want a beer? har har har. No? How about a whiskey!"

    No, I don't want a beer. I haven't wanted a beer for 23 years and I will not want a beer in the future. You know this. Your jabs at my non-drinking are not funny and never will be. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm some sort of freak because I don't voluntarily poison myself.

    I don't get why it's okay for drinkers to mock non-drinkers, but if someone who fucking loves fried foods starts mocking someone who is dieting, fried foods guy is the biggest asshole.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.

    Obviously.

    And, to go against the grain just a bit, on the "you know too many jerks" argument I'd say that far too often alcohol use tends to encourage behavior that would be considered dickish when sober.
    Well yeah, but you tell them that. Then eithe they listen to you or don't. At which point you have to decide if you want to be around someone who isn't going to stop being a jerk around you.

    dporowski
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
    This is not how helping an alcoholic works.

    They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.

    I would never suggest anyone go to AA, it's a stupid religious recruitment organization.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Most people drink because of the behaviour altering aspect, to some extent. It's why drinking exists as a social lubricant, and even people that profess to enjoy drinking purely as an exploration of flavour still tend to do it in a social setting.

    Usually the intended effect is a lowering of inhibitions: people drink so that they'll do or say things that they wouldn't otherwise. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on why they wouldn't usually do those things.

    TehSpectre
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    I hear tales of people and I see people acting the fool and getting into fights in bars, but my friends tend to be a lot like me and don't drink to much more than to the point of losing a few inhibitions that make some environments (clubs, boring conversations) more fun than they otherwise would be.

    I should add, it's not like if I or my friends (who I am familiar with drunkenly) drink more we start being aggressive dickbags. I basically get a little hyperactive, then I get speechslurry, and then I get drowsy and bored. At no point do I become more defensive or more aggressive, or depressed, or anything like that.

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    This is one of the things that really annoys me. I don't drink, everyone knows I don't drink, I don't take jabs at other people for drinking, I'll just have a pop, thanks. It's a complete non-issue.

    Except every time I'm at some sort of gathering where there is drinking, it's "Hey Reznik, want a beer? har har har. No? How about a whiskey!"

    No, I don't want a beer. I haven't wanted a beer for 23 years and I will not want a beer in the future. You know this. Your jabs at my non-drinking are not funny and never will be. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm some sort of freak because I don't voluntarily poison myself.

    I don't get why it's okay for drinkers to mock non-drinkers, but if someone who fucking loves fried foods starts mocking someone who is dieting, fried foods guy is the biggest asshole.

    Welcome to the life of a vegetarian.

    Bu really this happens to pretty much anyone who abstains from something popular with a group.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.

    It.. actually, this is super complex. It's super behavior altering, but that is moderated heavily by the culture surrounding it. In cultures where people believe alcohol causes aggression, people get drunk and become super aggressive. In cultures where they believe it makes people just silly, that's what happens. So it's hard to distinguish to physiological behavior alteration from the psychological alteration that comes as a result of expecting an alteration.

    If this is the case, it would be people's perception of what alcohol is supposed to bring about. Because there are people in America, in the same social circles, who have very different reactions to being drunk.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • DeadfallDeadfall Registered User regular
    I drink because I love beer. Love it.

    I love the complex tastes, I love the complex aromas, I love the history behind it, I love making it. I love how you can serve it in different glasses and it alters the experience completely. It's a hobby and an interest for me.

    However, I have the stomach constitution of a small girl, and I get hangovers like you wouldn't believe. So I literally have to moderate myself.

    My friends enjoy it with me, for pretty much all the same reasons. It relaxes us after a work week, and it gets us together every few days to enjoy each other's company.

    That's not to say I didn't use to pound back cases of Keystone in college, and I certainly did embarrass myself in my early 20's. But that's the past. I have literally never come to blows with someone while drunk, and none of my friends have started swinging at each other under the influence.

    So I think it comes down to how predisposed one is to violence or confrontational behaviors. We like to talk about philosophy (poorly) while drinking, and how awesome we are at video games. So maybe we're just dorks and beer accentuates that.

    I'm not sure where I was going with this, but I guess that my point is that alcohol alone does not a violent person make.

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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
    This is not how helping an alcoholic works.

    They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.

    I would never suggest anyone go to AA, it's a stupid religious recruitment organization.
    That is incorrect. While religion is something they use to help people, it is not some sort of indoctrination thing.

    You do not have to believe in god to join AA and they are, in fact, some of the most humble people around. In my experience.

    How much do you actually know about AA?

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    This is one of the things that really annoys me. I don't drink, everyone knows I don't drink, I don't take jabs at other people for drinking, I'll just have a pop, thanks. It's a complete non-issue.

    Except every time I'm at some sort of gathering where there is drinking, it's "Hey Reznik, want a beer? har har har. No? How about a whiskey!"

    No, I don't want a beer. I haven't wanted a beer for 23 years and I will not want a beer in the future. You know this. Your jabs at my non-drinking are not funny and never will be. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm some sort of freak because I don't voluntarily poison myself.

    I don't get why it's okay for drinkers to mock non-drinkers, but if someone who fucking loves fried foods starts mocking someone who is dieting, fried foods guy is the biggest asshole.

    Yeah, this is pretty much bullshit.

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    This is one of the things that really annoys me. I don't drink, everyone knows I don't drink, I don't take jabs at other people for drinking, I'll just have a pop, thanks. It's a complete non-issue.

    Except every time I'm at some sort of gathering where there is drinking, it's "Hey Reznik, want a beer? har har har. No? How about a whiskey!"

    No, I don't want a beer. I haven't wanted a beer for 23 years and I will not want a beer in the future. You know this. Your jabs at my non-drinking are not funny and never will be. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm some sort of freak because I don't voluntarily poison myself.

    I don't get why it's okay for drinkers to mock non-drinkers, but if someone who fucking loves fried foods starts mocking someone who is dieting, fried foods guy is the biggest asshole.

    Yeah, I mean. But not everywhere.

    None of my friends mock the people in our group who don't drink, or who want to not drink at said event or whatever.

    It shouldn't be taken as a given, it should be taken as a sign to find new people who are actually enjoyable.

    Though to be fair I think they might be more likely to mock a dieting person.

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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    And, to go against the grain just a bit, on the "you know too many jerks" argument I'd say that far too often alcohol use tends to encourage behavior that would be considered dickish when sober.
    Well yeah, but you tell them that. Then eithe they listen to you or don't. At which point you have to decide if you want to be around someone who isn't going to stop being a jerk around you.

    Yeah. I try not to hang out with assholes, which I think lends itself to the fact that I don't hang out with drunk assholes.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I hear tales of people and I see people acting the fool and getting into fights in bars, but my friends tend to be a lot like me and don't drink to much more than to the point of losing a few inhibitions that make some environments (clubs, boring conversations) more fun than they otherwise would be.

    I should add, it's not like if I or my friends (who I am familiar with drunkenly) drink more we start being aggressive dickbags. I basically get a little hyperactive, then I get speechslurry, and then I get drowsy and bored. At no point do I become more defensive or more aggressive, or depressed, or anything like that.

    Even this is something that would weird me out. As I mentioned, people who are docile suddenly becoming hyperactive or brazen or whatever else is a lot to take in for me.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    It's bizarre people would argue it is behavior altering.

    Of course it is.

    Obviously.

    And, to go against the grain just a bit, on the "you know too many jerks" argument I'd say that far too often alcohol use tends to encourage behavior that would be considered dickish when sober.

    Well yeah, but you tell them that. Then eithe they listen to you or don't. At which point you have to decide if you want to be around someone who isn't going to stop being a jerk around you.

    Okay, then I'll say that I've had Henroid's same experience, in that a majority of my friends would fall into this category. It'd get lonely real quick if I stopped hanging around everybody who acts like a bit of a dick after a couple drinks. Even if they don't do it every time, it happens often enough that if I were sober and cared about (sober) social norms I'd get a bit upset by it.

    Also, put me on the drunk (or even significantly buzzed) people are annoying if you're sober train. Because they are. So if you can't find friends who are willing to not drink on a regular basis, again you're going to be either annoyed a lot or lonely.

    Personally? I get around this by drinking too. Works for me. I understand if it doesn't work for Henroid, though.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
    This is not how helping an alcoholic works.

    They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.

    I would never suggest anyone go to AA, it's a stupid religious recruitment organization.
    That is incorrect. While religion is something they use to help people, it is not some sort of indoctrination thing.

    You do not have to believe in god to join AA and they are, in fact, some of the most humble people around. In my experience.

    How much do you actually know about AA?

    Isn't one of the steps invoking a higher power to keep you from drinking?

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Though, it's certainly one of the only drugs, I guess coffee's the other one, where people feel free to bug you about not using in mixed company.

    This is one of the things that really annoys me. I don't drink, everyone knows I don't drink, I don't take jabs at other people for drinking, I'll just have a pop, thanks. It's a complete non-issue.

    Except every time I'm at some sort of gathering where there is drinking, it's "Hey Reznik, want a beer? har har har. No? How about a whiskey!"

    No, I don't want a beer. I haven't wanted a beer for 23 years and I will not want a beer in the future. You know this. Your jabs at my non-drinking are not funny and never will be. Stop trying to make me feel like I'm some sort of freak because I don't voluntarily poison myself.

    I don't get why it's okay for drinkers to mock non-drinkers, but if someone who fucking loves fried foods starts mocking someone who is dieting, fried foods guy is the biggest asshole.

    Yeah, I mean. But not everywhere.

    None of my friends mock the people in our group who don't drink, or who want to not drink at said event or whatever.

    It shouldn't be taken as a given, it should be taken as a sign to find new people who are actually enjoyable.

    Though to be fair I think they might be more likely to mock a dieting person.

    It's person by person. And obviously, it's not just mocking either. I get, when I meet new people, at some point "I have to get you drunk." Maybe I am just meeting the wrong people! But it's not rare, and it's annoying. Yes, person-I-met-a-week-ago, you're going to convince me that I need to drink after 25 years of not being interested.

    It gets annoying, after a while, so I tend to just avoid spaces where drinking very much is expected.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    My point is, people do drink for different reasons and can get along together. If a friend does have a problem with excess, which it sounds like yours does henroid, I'd say get them to AA before it is too late and they have to from the confines of the county jail system. If they won't go, at least you tried. Time for new friends I guess.
    This is not how helping an alcoholic works.

    They have to realize they have a problem and you telling them to go to AA will not go over well.

    I would never suggest anyone go to AA, it's a stupid religious recruitment organization.
    That is incorrect. While religion is something they use to help people, it is not some sort of indoctrination thing.

    You do not have to believe in god to join AA and they are, in fact, some of the most humble people around. In my experience.

    How much do you actually know about AA?

    Okay, you tell me where in these 12 steps where spirituality is optional for their recovery plan.
    We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
    Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
    Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
    Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
    Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
    Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
    Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
    Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
    Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
    Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it.
    Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
    Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
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