The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Car Issues
Disrupter
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, trying to keep this short and generic. My wife's car has issues. We took it in to the dealer, they said what the problem was, what the repair would cost, we said go ahead and do it. Then they call back and say theres a different problem which caused the first problem, and it will cost more to fix it. We say ok. They then call back a third time and say some other problem was caused by the second problem, and they need to fix that. My wife said ok (i just found out moments ago at work).
I am 80% expecting another call saying the car is still broke and it will cost more to fix it.
If that occurs, what recourse do I have at that point? Can I just take the car back from them and refuse to pay anything since they didnt fix it? It sounds like they have no idea what they are doing and they are just trying random shit to fix the car.
If it helps, here is specifically the problem that occurred:
Her car has a security feature that the starter has to read a chip in the key to make sure its legit before it will interact with the key at all. The car wouldnt start. I assumed, without any knowledge about cars, that the chip reader was fried. Turns out, this is what the dealer initially claimed as well (i never spoke to them, so its not like I told them that was the problem).
Well, they order a new starter and wait a few days for it to arrive. Then apparantly when they went to install it, they noticed the wires to it were fried, and they must have shorted out the starter. So they have to replace those. They order the new wires and they replace those. They then notice that another piece was apparently fried by the wires too so THAT has to be replaced.
Total repairs are coming to like 1800, but they are claiming they will only charge us 1000 when its all said and done.
I would not have had much of a problem if they had found all the problems initially and told us about them. But it sounds like they are either nickel and diming us with all these extra issues, or that they have no idea what they are doing and are just trying random fixes, explaining why they think that fix might work, and then trying something else.
So, is this normal for mechanics? Ive only had one other experience with them which was equally terrible:
So yeah is this how things are normally done? Try to fix problems randomly and hope nothing else is broke? Should I, or can I even, pull the car from them and refuse to pay for the repairs if they come back with another issue? Do I even have any options other then let them keep working, or pay them for the work theyve done and tow the car somewhere else?
I am 80% expecting another call saying the car is still broke and it will cost more to fix it.
If that occurs, what recourse do I have at that point? Can I just take the car back from them and refuse to pay anything since they didnt fix it? It sounds like they have no idea what they are doing and they are just trying random shit to fix the car.
If it helps, here is specifically the problem that occurred:
Her car has a security feature that the starter has to read a chip in the key to make sure its legit before it will interact with the key at all. The car wouldnt start. I assumed, without any knowledge about cars, that the chip reader was fried. Turns out, this is what the dealer initially claimed as well (i never spoke to them, so its not like I told them that was the problem).
Well, they order a new starter and wait a few days for it to arrive. Then apparantly when they went to install it, they noticed the wires to it were fried, and they must have shorted out the starter. So they have to replace those. They order the new wires and they replace those. They then notice that another piece was apparently fried by the wires too so THAT has to be replaced.
Total repairs are coming to like 1800, but they are claiming they will only charge us 1000 when its all said and done.
I would not have had much of a problem if they had found all the problems initially and told us about them. But it sounds like they are either nickel and diming us with all these extra issues, or that they have no idea what they are doing and are just trying random fixes, explaining why they think that fix might work, and then trying something else.
So, is this normal for mechanics? Ive only had one other experience with them which was equally terrible:
my old car died, i suspected the engine seized, they said no it was fine. Then they fixed something else, and then while they were driving the car to test it, the engine apparently DID seize. Leaving me with a 600 dollar bill for the initial repair, and a junked car. I trust that this actually DID occur like they say, because the car was out a good 5-10 miles away from the repair guy when it died. And he was recommended by my company HR as he repairs all their vans, so I doubt hed risk our business by screwing over an employee.
So yeah is this how things are normally done? Try to fix problems randomly and hope nothing else is broke? Should I, or can I even, pull the car from them and refuse to pay for the repairs if they come back with another issue? Do I even have any options other then let them keep working, or pay them for the work theyve done and tow the car somewhere else?
0
Posts
Ideally a great mechanic will do a full diagnostic in which they are able to find the root cause of a problem. Sometimes, though, a root cause is very difficult to find until the symptomatic issue is fixed. It is really situation dependent. It does *sound* though, in your case, like they should have been able to do a little more up front on the diagnostic end.
To be honest, though, this is pretty common. In my experience, a good mechanic is one who will tell you up front what all the issues are, what they could potentially do if you do not fix them, and then leave the choice in your hands rather than just saying "You have to fix this!"
For example, in my last car I had an issue with my ignition system where the engine wasn't getting enough air to reliably start the car. My mechanic not only found that, but also found that one of the gaskets on my engine had gone bad. After examining it, he found that the gasket wasn't going to immediately kill the engine, though it would probably only last another year or two, and would cost about a thousand to fix. At that point I was already planning to buy a new car the following spring anyway, so I just told him to leave it be.
Whats to stop them from finding everything, then reporting one issue at a time until they drain us for everything we are willing to pay? Plus our limit would end up being way higher if presented as 200 dollars more, 20 times instead of the total amount!
I dunno, just seems like its their responsibility to do a full diagnostic before telling us what the problem is. I mean for all I know, nothing was wrong with the initial problem, and it was just the frayed wires causing that part not to work.
Edit: On your question about taking it elsewhere, I have some experience. My car was still under warrantee when this happened, but after bad dealer couldn't fix an issue after bringing it in 3 times, I was able to call the factory (who oversaw the payment of warrantee repairs) and get them to pay the other good dealer to fix it. I would imagine this could be very different since you're paying out of pocket for the repairs.
I guess, I just don't understand how this industry can get away being so...BAD at their jobs. If as a computer technician, I keep "guessing" at whats wrong with a computer and charging another couple hundred for each repair, the customer would snap. It doesn't seem "fair" for lack of a better word.
I get a car is more complicated, but it really feels like they didnt do any diagnosis, and just kept fixing the first issue they saw, which seems like a terrible practice. It would be like if doctors just assumed you were dying because of that stuffy nose they first noticed, when in reality, you have internal bleeding.
Oh well, alls well that ends well. Thanks for the lesson about looking at reviews, I will do so before I ever take a car in again. Is it possible for me to ask for a full diagnostic of the problem?
Well, it sounds like you got a good outcome here and they did a good job working with you.
Normally if you want a full diagnostic of the problem (vs. just fixing the most obvious symptom) you are going to be looking at going to a dealership and / or paying significantly more than just 'fixing' the obvious problem. Keep in mind that even a full dealer workup isn't going to be comprehensive, and you can still run into a situation where fixing an apparent issue reveals deeper issues. It's also a good possibility that other issues that you could safely ignore will come up.
I.e. If you go into a doctor with a stuffy nose, he's not going to give you an MRI to check for internal bleeding just because. He's going to tell you take a decongestant and get some rest.
I.e. If your power supply goes out, you are going to install a new one. You aren't going to reinstall Windows, test your processor, and run a full suite of RAM tests unless you start having other issues.
Mechanics follow an iterative troubleshooting process. Try to fix the obvious issue, see what you find as you fix it, and see if the problem goes away. If it does, and no additional or underlying issues are revealed, you are done.
The big difference between working on a car and working on a computer is that working on a computer is essentially free. Think about how different it would be working on a computer if every task took a few hours of dedicated labor, parts weren't standardized and interchangeable between all machines, and once a part was installed it can't be reused in another machine or returned to the vendor.
Thanks for the assistance in discussing my options guys. Alls well that ends well. And in the future I will look at reviews and possibly ask for a more comprehensive diagnostic.