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Fuck DeBeers: Outsourcing And Blood Edition

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Posts

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Ahaha.

    "Man why you gotta be so smug?"
    "But no seriously bro if you don't buy a diamond ring for her people might judge you. Be careful."

    Funny how you only seem to care that one group judges you.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Quid wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    The only way to change that "reality" is to openly reject it.

    That's fine, but I don't think we can just expect people to turn a happy moment like an engagement into an obligation to educate everyone they know on the diamond trade.

    You don't have to and no one does this anyway because it's just a ridiculous strawman as it is. The important part is that you are free to do as you please and accept that people are going to judge you instead for buying blood diamonds.

    Deal.

    No one is advocating buying blood diamonds! This is just getting silly. The choice is not "do I buy all those sweet blood diamonds or some alternative." It is "am I comfortable enough with safe guards in place and the fact that blood diamonds cannot be legally sold in America or do I go the extra step and get a Kimberley process stone (and again, he Kimberley process is not infallible)."

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    V1m wrote: »
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    The only way to change that "reality" is to openly reject it.

    That's fine, but I don't think we can just expect people to turn a happy moment like an engagement into an obligation to educate everyone they know on the diamond trade.

    If you don't know details like this before getting engaged, I would argue the relationship still has some work it needs.

    In fact honestly if the proposal is rejected because "not diamond" then do you really want to marry the person at all, seeing as how apparently money has now entered - in a very significant way - into the "contract"?

    Who ever said anything about rejected proposals? The more likely scenario is she says yes but is secretly disappointed that she will never have the ring she seemed of as a little girl.

    How many actual women are out there like this really?

    And, to get all utilitarian on it: if she never expresses the sentiment - who cares?

    I'm led to believe by a combination of factors that communication is an important part of a healthy relationship.

    EDIT: And this is also bullshit sollipsism of the highest order - what if you buy her a diamond and she's secretly disappointed you didn't make sure it was conflict-free? Or secretly disappointed that you didn't put any thought into and just went with the standard?

    electricitylikesme on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    It's up to you whether you'd rather be judged for

    "*gasp* they didn't purchase the traditional consumer items to symbolize their personal relationship!"

    or

    "*gasp* they care more about specific appearances than not funding slave labor."

    KalTorak on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    People will judge you for having a blood diamond.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Quid wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    The only way to change that "reality" is to openly reject it.

    That's fine, but I don't think we can just expect people to turn a happy moment like an engagement into an obligation to educate everyone they know on the diamond trade.

    You don't have to and no one does this anyway because it's just a ridiculous strawman as it is. The important part is that you are free to do as you please and accept that people are going to judge you instead for buying blood diamonds.

    Deal.

    No one is advocating buying blood diamonds! This is just getting silly. The choice is not "do I buy all those sweet blood diamonds or some alternative." It is "am I comfortable enough with safe guards in place and the fact that blood diamonds cannot be legally sold in America or do I go the extra step and get a Kimberley process stone (and again, he Kimberley process is not infallible)."

    Same fucking difference. People judge you for not bothering to actually make sure you didn't buy blood diamonds. People judge you for buying our wife a different stone altogether. Either way you're going to get judged so given you're so fucking keen to judge people all the time I once again direct you to your sole option:

    e8sh0y.jpg

    Quid on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    And while your dealing with it kindly take your made up excuses that collective action problems aren't real or that ethical consumerism doesn't affect anything and shove it. Nut the fuck up and at least admit to your decisions.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    He left her the opening of a non-new diamond.

    EDIT: The problem is really that there's a very limited rational argument for blowing thousands of dollars on a gram or two of non-functional carbon in the first place. When you tie that into indisputable moral issues, what argument can there be? "I need a gram of carbon allotrope (as opposed to some aluminium oxide) on my finger so badly that I'm willing to let child slaves be mutilated and die to provide it for me!".

    And that's apart from the "reality" that there's a >99% chance that a newly wedded couple will have numerous far more utilitarian uses for a few thousand bucks than some jewellry in the first place.

    And now the smugness returns. Just because you don't like the tradition doesn't mean it is wrong or stupid.

    The takeaway I have from this topic is that I am generally not buying Nintendo, HTC or Samsung devices anymore. These products are much worse than diamonds IMO because while conflict diamonds are illegal in America, and so you can trust in those laws to mitigate risk, electronics with conflict minerals are fully legal here. Also, Nintendo are the biggest monsters of all, because they literally so NOTHING to try and track the source of their materials.

    Are you trying to imply that "tradition" is a rational reason to buy a diamond? I won't deny that social expectation can be a strong motivator, but I will deny that it's a rational one. It's an emotional thing through and through, from start to finish.

    The comparison to a mobile phone is not entirely equivalent. For many people a mobile is so useful as to be almost a neccessity, or for some professions where one is expected to be contactable all the time, there's no "almost" about it: you just have to have one. Deciding not to have a mobile phone will have real detrimental effects on their life.

    This is never true of a diamond ring, because unless you spend a lot of your time marking glass or something, it has close to zero utility, and even then it would be completely replacable with alternatives like CZ or mossianite. Its only utility is that of the peacock's tail: a display of social "fitness".

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    I'd prefer them to openly judge me.

    It'd make christmas shopping each year that much simpler.

    Also, what the hell? We already had a nice tidy little post wrapping up that "anyone who judged you based on your choice of jewelry wasn't worth knowing/caring about their opinion".

    You 'Agreed' with it and everything.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
    QuidSo It Goes
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    And while your dealing with it kindly take your made up excuses that collective action problems aren't real or that ethical consumerism doesn't affect anything and shove it. Nut the fuck up and at least admit to your decisions.

    This is a rich attitude from a dude that actually bought his wife a diamond engagement ring.

    BUT MY DIAMOND IS ETHICAL, ITS FROM CANADA!!!!
    Debeers operates mines in Canada. Congrats, you were duped twice.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
    spacekungfuman
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    It's still a lot better, unless there are warlords running those Canadian mines.

    Incenjucar on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    And while your dealing with it kindly take your made up excuses that collective action problems aren't real or that ethical consumerism doesn't affect anything and shove it. Nut the fuck up and at least admit to your decisions.

    This is a rich attitude from a dude that actually bought his wife a diamond engagement ring.

    BUT MY DIAMOND IS ETHICAL, ITS FROM CANADA!!!!
    Debeers operates mines in Canada. Congrats, you were duped twice.
    Very possibly yes.

    Notice my lack of making up bullshit excuses. Though the site itself specified the diamonds were their own it is indeed possible I bought a blood diamond and better care will be taken in the future.

    Oh hey look at that, I admitted to my decision and didn't get butt hurt when someone pointed out the possible consequences of it.

    Incenjucar
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I mean Hell did you even read the post where I freely admit my shoes were probably made in a sweat shop? I'm not thrilled with it but I'm not going to cry because someone has the audacity to say so.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    V1m wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    He left her the opening of a non-new diamond.

    EDIT: The problem is really that there's a very limited rational argument for blowing thousands of dollars on a gram or two of non-functional carbon in the first place. When you tie that into indisputable moral issues, what argument can there be? "I need a gram of carbon allotrope (as opposed to some aluminium oxide) on my finger so badly that I'm willing to let child slaves be mutilated and die to provide it for me!".

    And that's apart from the "reality" that there's a >99% chance that a newly wedded couple will have numerous far more utilitarian uses for a few thousand bucks than some jewellry in the first place.

    And now the smugness returns. Just because you don't like the tradition doesn't mean it is wrong or stupid.

    The takeaway I have from this topic is that I am generally not buying Nintendo, HTC or Samsung devices anymore. These products are much worse than diamonds IMO because while conflict diamonds are illegal in America, and so you can trust in those laws to mitigate risk, electronics with conflict minerals are fully legal here. Also, Nintendo are the biggest monsters of all, because they literally so NOTHING to try and track the source of their materials.

    Are you trying to imply that "tradition" is a rational reason to buy a diamond? I won't deny that social expectation can be a strong motivator, but I will deny that it's a rational one. It's an emotional thing through and through, from start to finish.

    The comparison to a mobile phone is not entirely equivalent. For many people a mobile is so useful as to be almost a neccessity, or for some professions where one is expected to be contactable all the time, there's no "almost" about it: you just have to have one. Deciding not to have a mobile phone will have real detrimental effects on their life.

    This is never true of a diamond ring, because unless you spend a lot of your time marking glass or something, it has close to zero utility, and even then it would be completely replacable with alternatives like CZ or mossianite. Its only utility is that of the peacock's tail: a display of social "fitness".

    Do people even read the thread? You can buy an iPhone or a Motorola phone without conflict minerals. Noone is saying font but cell phones. But if you choose HTC or Samsung, you probably have a higher chance of supporting African warlords than buying a non-KP diamond in the US.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    And while your dealing with it kindly take your made up excuses that collective action problems aren't real or that ethical consumerism doesn't affect anything and shove it. Nut the fuck up and at least admit to your decisions.

    This is a rich attitude from a dude that actually bought his wife a diamond engagement ring.

    BUT MY DIAMOND IS ETHICAL, ITS FROM CANADA!!!!
    Debeers operates mines in Canada. Congrats, you were duped twice.
    Very possibly yes.

    Notice my lack of making up bullshit excuses. Though the site itself specified the diamonds were their own it is indeed possible I bought a blood diamond and better care will be taken in the future.

    Oh hey look at that, I admitted to my decision and didn't get butt hurt when someone pointed out the possible consequences of it.

    You started off with the Canada "excuse", bro. It aint substantially different that SKFM's "excuse" that conflict diamonds are illegal to sell in the US.

    And yeah, it may bother you that your clothes are made in sweatshops, but does that actually motivate you to do anything about it or do you just shrug your shoulders and go "Yeah, I guess I support sweatshop labor, but I really don't care"

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
    spacekungfumanMadCaddy
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I've also resolved to do better in the future. The difference between myself and SKFM is he's claimed repeatedly that people's purchases have no effect. And in the future as my income rises and the options for ethical items become more available and cheaper I'll continue to make more and more of my purchases with that in mind.

    I do not not have claimed to be perfect. This does not make me a hypocrite for saying bad things are bad. Otherwise no one could criticize anyone's actions ever.

    IncenjucarBertezBertezWassermeloneSo It Goes
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Every single one of us have in some way supported horrible people and promoted horrible events. However, we can choose to try and do this less and less as we gain more resources and more knowledge, and the first step in that is acknowledging our past actions so that we can learn from them.

    Captain CarrotSo It Goes
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Quid wrote: »
    I've also resolved to do better in the future. The difference between myself and SKFM is he's claimed repeatedly that people's purchases have no effect. And in the future as my income rises and the options for ethical items become more available and cheaper I'll continue to make more and more of my purchases with that in mind.

    I do not not have claimed to be perfect. This does not make me a hypocrite for saying bad things are bad. Otherwise no one could criticize anyone's actions ever.

    Here is the difference. You engage in what you perceive to be unethical consumerism, and resolve to do better in the future. I do not believe that I am engaging in unethical consumerism at all. The vast majority of diamonds sold in the US are not blood diamonds, and their sale is illegal. The choice to buy a KP diamond over an unsourced diamond really represents the choice to buy an insurance policy which reduces the risk of buying a blood diamond from very low to very very low. I am comfortable with very low. Like I have said before, were I to be offered the chance to buy a blood diamond, I would not do so.

    I also do not think that my shoes were made unethically, because I recognize that jobs which are not up to American standards can still be the best jobs in those regions. The crime is that working in a sweatshop is a good job by their standards, not that the sweat shop exists at all and people clamour to work in it.

    I know from prior posts that you are also big on local produce and things of that nature. That is fine, and while I often do the same, I am not opposed to large commercial farms, so I don't consider it unethical consumerism when we buy lettuce at stop and shop instead of the local farmers market (we prefer the farmers market because the produce is better).

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
    Frankiedarling
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Quid wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    The only way to change that "reality" is to openly reject it.

    That's fine, but I don't think we can just expect people to turn a happy moment like an engagement into an obligation to educate everyone they know on the diamond trade.

    You don't have to and no one does this anyway because it's just a ridiculous strawman as it is. The important part is that you are free to do as you please and accept that people are going to judge you instead for buying blood diamonds.

    Deal.

    No one is advocating buying blood diamonds! This is just getting silly. The choice is not "do I buy all those sweet blood diamonds or some alternative." It is "am I comfortable enough with safe guards in place and the fact that blood diamonds cannot be legally sold in America or do I go the extra step and get a Kimberley process stone (and again, he Kimberley process is not infallible)."

    Did you read the article I posted in the OP? Because the whole point of that article is that thanks to how the system works in Surat, the Kimberley Process is absolutely fucking worthless, and that blood diamonds are being laundered in Surat to the point that up to a quarter of the diamonds coming out of there are laundered blood diamonds.

    The reason you think you aren't engaging in unethical consumerism is because you are instead electing to stick your head in the sand.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Quid wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    The only way to change that "reality" is to openly reject it.

    That's fine, but I don't think we can just expect people to turn a happy moment like an engagement into an obligation to educate everyone they know on the diamond trade.

    You don't have to and no one does this anyway because it's just a ridiculous strawman as it is. The important part is that you are free to do as you please and accept that people are going to judge you instead for buying blood diamonds.

    Deal.

    No one is advocating buying blood diamonds! This is just getting silly. The choice is not "do I buy all those sweet blood diamonds or some alternative." It is "am I comfortable enough with safe guards in place and the fact that blood diamonds cannot be legally sold in America or do I go the extra step and get a Kimberley process stone (and again, he Kimberley process is not infallible)."

    Did you read the article I posted in the OP? Because the whole point of that article is that thanks to how the system works in Surat, the Kimberley Process is absolutely fucking worthless, and that blood diamonds are being laundered in Surat to the point that up to a quarter of the diamonds coming out of there are laundered blood diamonds.

    Worthless is an overstatement, I would say, but again, I even pointed out that the kimberley process is not infallible. If anything, the article in the OP is greater support for not going the KP route. But again, this is not a problem that you or I can solve. It would take government or international body action to solve it. In the mean time? Even if 25 (or 33% which seems like the upper bound in your article) of diamonds are blood diamonds, and we assume that a pro rata share of them wind up in the US, that still leaves the vast majority of diamonds being clean.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    Can you really say that "it sucks" when in all likelihood you and your peers would be the biggest judges?

    I already get judged because of my choice of degree, choice of job, sartorial style, beliefs and hobbies, as does my girlfriend. Getting judged by my decision to not adhere to a "tradition" that was largely invented by a marketing campaign is the least of my worries. Let them judge - it'll cut down on the people I need to invite to the wedding.

    My main issue is whether my girlfriend will care, and as she's pretty ethical in her buying habits already it will probably be fine, but a discussion of child slavery and corporate douchebaggery cuts down on the big romantic gesture side of things I've been brainwashed to want to provide for her.

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    It's odd - we've discussed kids (number and names), where we want to live, the type of house - almost every aspect of a stereotypical married life, except the actual getting married part.

    I also worry that the answer would be, "Don't spend too much and save for a house deposit", because I'm a tool of the marketing machine which says that you should spend according to your salary and not on what she wants. It's not like I consciously do that in any other purchase for her - the last jewellery purchase for her was a pair of Assassin's Creed earrings made of some kind of clear acrylic, and she loved them because they represented one of her famous game franchises.

    Stupid social pressure...

    If you buy her something other than a diamond, you will have to accept that people will quietly judge you both. It sucks, but that us the reality.

    Can you really say that "it sucks" when in all likelihood you and your peers would be the biggest judges?

    I already get judged because of my choice of degree, choice of job, sartorial style, beliefs and hobbies, as does my girlfriend. Getting judged by my decision to not adhere to a "tradition" that was largely invented by a marketing campaign is the least of my worries. Let them judge - it'll cut down on the people I need to invite to the wedding.

    My main issue is whether my girlfriend will care, and as she's pretty ethical in her buying habits already it will probably be fine, but a discussion of child slavery and corporate douchebaggery cuts down on the big romantic gesture side of things I've been brainwashed to want to provide for her.

    So buy her a KP diamond and hope that's enough (it's all you can do now). No discussion needed then.

    7zh9uu9etcor.jpg
    Chanus wrote:
    It's been a butt come true! I get to work with the absolute best boobs in the business. What more could a money ask for? Kids, aim for the freeloaders !

    @chanus
  • saint2esaint2e Registered User regular
    My wife's engagement and wedding rings are comprised of Canadian Diamonds and pink sapphires (she loves pink, so I made sure I incorporated it into her engagement ring, and to match, her wedding ring).

    I think from here on in to save money and to indulge her love of all things pink, I'll stick with the sapphires for any jewellery I purchase for her. Less expensive, more effort since it'd probably take a bit to find something that incorporates sapphires, and less taxing on my moral conscience.

    banner_160x60_01.gif
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    This page of the thread is indistinguishable from any other page in the thread, which leaves me to believe that we've exhausted the mine-able territory in this discussion. (See what I did there?)

    Also, there is way too much being-a-dick in here.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    shryke
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