[WOW] Mists of the Patch of the Thunder King of Pandaria

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  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    The first two bosses aren't so bad, but Garalon is pretty overtuned.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    The new PvP changes and the admittance that they're going to use player resilience as a tuning knob to tone down damage whenever a new season comes out has me wondering why there's any progression in PvP gear anymore.

    Well there is more to the PvP gear than resilience, i.e. pvp power. Blizz also aren't going to ever hand out free ilevel 476 (or whatever it ends up being), because it still has its uses.

    Blizzard made a big song and dance about the idea of base resilience towards the end of the last expansion. It got introduced so it would not be so awful for new players, in addition to allowing people who primarily concern themselves with pve, to still "have a go" in pvp in their raiding kit.

    However, that hasn't worked out because the base resilience (40%?) is hardly having an effect due to the damage currently flying about. In fact at the moment, even with a complete kit, you still have to gem resilience, which should indicate that things aren't quite right.

    By capping the PvP gear to a certain level and removing resilience from the gear, they make higher ilvl PvE gear more "equivalent" to PvP gear for world PvP, such that the resilience values are now basically identical (gems and enchants can increase it still) and the damage output--be it from your primary stat or PvP Power--are closer. The scaling comes into play for dedicated PvP to prevent PvE gear from being viable to PvP with, as PvE gear scaled down to 496 won't have the ilvl-costless PvP Power that PvP Power at the same level will have, and thus be weaker. I'm pretty hopeful this solution will work to some degree and I hope they finally eat their pride and start making more spells work differently in PvP than just CC.

    Smrtnik
  • KeemossiKeemossi Registered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Madpanda wrote: »
    If the 10 man I'm in can down elegon is it safe to say we could move into heart of fear pretty easily?

    We raid 2 hours a week and its the relaxed raid group which explains the progress.

    Heart of Fear is ridiculously overtuned. You may have trouble with it.

    With the 5.2 LFR gear and 10% nerf HoF shouldn't be a problem, numbers-wise. Garalon needs some coordination, but not really more than Elegon.

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    I wonder if in LFR, the trash before Tortos is going to be the equivalent of the trash before Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: Simple mechanics, yet causes a minimum of three raid wipes on 30% of runs.

    So more tales from LFR, Forgotten Depths on my Resto Druid:
    Queue up, by some miracle it's a fresh run. Paladin tank pulls first pack of bats before half the raid has even loaded into the instance. Pally explodes, other tank tries to pick it up but it's too late, raid wipes, the rest of the people trickling in die to bats. Yelling in raid chat commences, ~Five people leave including three healers. Pally pulls at half health, explodes, other tank is able to pick it up this time and we manage to down the first trash pack boss, victory! And of course the Paladin starts yelling at the fail heals... Until someone points out he's tanking in a lovely collection of ungemmed, unenchanted, unreforged 420 quest blues/heroic 463 gear. "How could you even queue for here?" Asks the other Resto Druid.

    "Yeah well I have DPS gear for ilevel, but I want off-spec gear so deal with it."

    Oh shit, sorry. Didn't know you were an entitled goosehead that thinks it's OK to skip two tiers of content so you can collect offspec gear. In one of the more crucial roles to have appropriate gear, but whatever. So one of the other healers, a Holy Pally says something along the lines of "there's no tanks so we'll just go with him, this boss doesn't hit for shit anyway."

    So we pull the boss. Predictably, he explodes on the second or third [Snapping Bite], because he's not really using any active mitigation ever or avoiding [Rockfall]. Wipe horribly, blame healing. Pull again... This time for some reason the tanks have swapped roles and he's now tanking adds, while again not dodging anything or using any kind of mitigation. The second the adds hit him, he's gets global'd, it's hysterically bad. Wipe horribly.

    Now the other Resto Druid gets a bit more pushy about kicking the tank... And the Holy Pally starts berating him for being bad. (We had three Pallies, a Disc Priest, and two Druids healing. For anyone not knowledgeable about how healing abilites work, both Pally and Disc mastery put up constant absorb bubble, which end up "sniping" any HoTs, since they're "used" first. So yeah, Druids are always going to be low with four people spamming bubbles) Ugh, just swap the Pally back to the boss and pull, whatever...

    So through brute force, spamming the shit out of the bad tank, and I imagine the 7 Hunters that didn't suck speeding the fight up, we managed to kill it. "See, it's easy when you healers don't fail." Urge to kill rising...

    The end of the story is pretty anticlimactic: He ended up rage quitting after dying on every pack of trash leading up to Megaera. Then I won a fun hat. Oh, and before that run I queued for Terrace to get the [Chimera of Fear] and landed in a raid about to pull Sha, so that was nice.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Ishtaar wrote: »
    I wonder if in LFR, the trash before Tortos is going to be the equivalent of the trash before Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: Simple mechanics, yet causes a minimum of three raid wipes on 30% of runs.

    What trash before Tortos? It's like two pulls...

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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Ishtaar wrote: »
    I wonder if in LFR, the trash before Tortos is going to be the equivalent of the trash before Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: Simple mechanics, yet causes a minimum of three raid wipes on 30% of runs.

    What trash before Tortos? It's like two pulls...

    Yep, the bats. Out of the four runs I've done of that wing, it's averaged at least two wipes per run on that trash... Mostly some idiot managing to pull the second pack in the boss area.

    "Interrupt [Sonic Screech]" is an advanced tactic which is not to be used in LFR, ever.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Oh, yeah. We wiped once because some dumbass pulled the trash and the boss at the same time. That was about it tho. Haven't done it this week yet.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Interrupts in general are a well kept secret in lfr

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  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Interrupts in general are a well kept secret in lfr
    So are dispels for healers.

    Except on Megaera, where dispels happen INSTANTLY so as to drop fire all over the $%^*ing place.

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  • KeemossiKeemossi Registered User regular
    Interrupts generally do low to no damage, so obviously few use them.

    Those who do use interrupts make sure everybody knows, though. Need to have at least yell, raid warning and emote macroed to the interrupt.. :P

  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Keemossi wrote: »
    Interrupts generally do low to no damage, so obviously few use them.

    Those who do use interrupts make sure everybody knows, though. Need to have at least yell, raid warning and emote macroed to the interrupt.. :P
    I don't entirely hate that though... I want to think that maybe, just maybe, someone else sees those messages and thinks, "Hey, I should interrupt that too!"

    This is me being too optimistic again, isn't it?

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    I'd rather people spammed the shit out of my chat window if it means things are actually being interrupted and dispelled.

    If I'm choosing between easily ignorable lines of text or Wind-Lord and his adds with 10 stacks of quickening...yeah.

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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    But if it were a PvP battleground, forget it. Try to cast one of those loooooong wind-up spells and Holy Moley, about 23 people hit you with their interrupt.

  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    Redcoat-13 wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    The new PvP changes and the admittance that they're going to use player resilience as a tuning knob to tone down damage whenever a new season comes out has me wondering why there's any progression in PvP gear anymore.

    Well there is more to the PvP gear than resilience, i.e. pvp power. Blizz also aren't going to ever hand out free ilevel 476 (or whatever it ends up being), because it still has its uses.

    Blizzard made a big song and dance about the idea of base resilience towards the end of the last expansion. It got introduced so it would not be so awful for new players, in addition to allowing people who primarily concern themselves with pve, to still "have a go" in pvp in their raiding kit.

    However, that hasn't worked out because the base resilience (40%?) is hardly having an effect due to the damage currently flying about. In fact at the moment, even with a complete kit, you still have to gem resilience, which should indicate that things aren't quite right.

    By capping the PvP gear to a certain level and removing resilience from the gear, they make higher ilvl PvE gear more "equivalent" to PvP gear for world PvP, such that the resilience values are now basically identical (gems and enchants can increase it still) and the damage output--be it from your primary stat or PvP Power--are closer. The scaling comes into play for dedicated PvP to prevent PvE gear from being viable to PvP with, as PvE gear scaled down to 496 won't have the ilvl-costless PvP Power that PvP Power at the same level will have, and thus be weaker. I'm pretty hopeful this solution will work to some degree and I hope they finally eat their pride and start making more spells work differently in PvP than just CC.

    Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not complaining about this resilience change. Quite the contrary. There's a fair bit of work to do, with regards to making pvp power attractive to healers, somehow making the pve kit worse for flag carriers than those in a pvp kit, and a load of other little things that all add up, but as I said before, I have to give Blizzard credit for giving this a try and hope this all works out for them.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Keemossi wrote: »
    Interrupts generally do low to no damage, so obviously few use them.

    Those who do use interrupts make sure everybody knows, though. Need to have at least yell, raid warning and emote macroed to the interrupt.. :P

    this is called 25 mans have spellcaster bosses that cast more often than single person's interrupt cd. This is one of those things that is the difficulty difference since one person watching a cast timer is easier than two (or more) watching time AND making sure they dont interrupt every time, just their specific slot in the rotation

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  • SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
    yeah, people that know how to do the interrupts already have macros from doing real raids

  • KeemossiKeemossi Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Yes, and establishing an interrupt order deals with those. Admittedly I haven't raided 25 mans since early Cata (thankfully), but I can't remember any boss that needs more 2 or 3 interrupting a single ability. So, your skill is off cooldown and somebody interrupted the last one? Probably your turn.

    I mean yeah, I guess somebody might benefit from an interrupt announce. But the way many people seem to handle that.. isn't it enough to have a yell or something, instead of like 3 messages :/

    Keemossi on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    The new PvP changes and the admittance that they're going to use player resilience as a tuning knob to tone down damage whenever a new season comes out has me wondering why there's any progression in PvP gear anymore.
    I'll still never understand why the elite gear is exactly the same except you have to waste a bunch of gold that you don't get from PvPing re-gemming/enchanting it.

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  • SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
    you won't enchant/gem the elite stuff, you'll use it to transmog the stuff you already have

  • KeemossiKeemossi Registered User regular
    Ehh.. yeah, I'm killing a warbringer, somebody invites me to a group. Ofc I decline, the loot isn't shared.. /spits on me and ignores. I hate people.

    Still don't understand why faction tagging isn't for.. eh, everything.

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Man all of the Kor'kron stuff in 5.3 sounds pretty cool.
    http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=211671#.

    The Vale stuff though, I wonder if they're going to give any reason/justification for the Golden Lotus/Shado-Pan/Alliance not stopping the Horde from digging up half the zone?

    EDIT: Oh, just read the conversation between Dezco and Taran Zhu. That still seems off; it's not the dug up that whole gorge overnight.

    Lately I've been wondering if they're trying to set up Dezco or maybe even Nazgrim to be warchief; Dezco is pretty unknown and didn't really show up till MoP but he seems to be everywhere now. I know Lor'themar has become the 'frontrunner' because of the 5.1 stuff but that could just be a misdirect.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Nazgrim really seems like a slice of Garrosh's Horde, so I wouldn't really count him as an ally when shit goes down, with the possible exception of Saurfang stepping in and using his war hero status to split the ranks of the Kor'kron

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    The lack of interrupts in PUGs is even more pathetic than ever now that most of them have 0 cost and are off the GCD. Casters with one have a tiny bit of an excuse since you potentially have to stop your own cast to use it, which will slightly cut into your DPS epeen, but the various melee have no excuse whatsoever anymore.

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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    I interrupt every spell I can. I also purge every debuff I can. Hell, I even use my focus interrupt macro if I need to!

    Granted, I am not the average pugger.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    moguTitan.jpg

    ...awat?

    Not terribly impressed with the armored dragonhawk models. No rush for 200 mounts I suppose. There's a horde and an alliance version of the achievement/mount. Not sure what they're gonna do with that since most faction achievements also award the other one too.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Also as far as I can tell, so far anyway, there are no new factions in 5.3

    I am 100% ok with that.

    More than 100% ok with that actually.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    They should throw alts a bone and add great commendations to main factions anyway. Part of the drawback of heirlooms and such is that you never actually get exalted fast enough to discount things like flying training

    EDIT: Didn't want to make a double post, but how is everyone reacting to the (almost) complete removal of PvP resilience from gear? Or, rather the buff to overall PvP resilience?

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  • BlendtecBlendtec PittsburghRegistered User regular
    Also as far as I can tell, so far anyway, there are no new factions in 5.3

    I am 100% ok with that.

    More than 100% ok with that actually.

    I have nothing to champion on my main though. Shame I can't use them to get rep for my alts.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    They should throw alts a bone and add great commendations to main factions anyway. Part of the drawback of heirlooms and such is that you never actually get exalted fast enough to discount things like flying training

    EDIT: Didn't want to make a double post, but how is everyone reacting to the (almost) complete removal of PvP resilience from gear? Or, rather the buff to overall PvP resilience?

    As a total non pvp-er, who has put virtually no time into PvP since TBC (where I actually did pvp a ton with my rogue), I think the change is great.

    There are plenty of competitive avenues for bleeding edge PvP with arenas and RBG's. I might be more inclined to actually pvp now and then if I know I can go in and earn pvp gear without being completely brutalized and one shotted constantly just to get a set of gear. It has always been one of the bigged downfalls of PvP in WoW that in order to enjoy it, you have to first suffer. Of course you can get in on the ground floor with a new xpack, but I'm usually too focused on PvE/alts etc the first few patches. Players with PvP Power will still be dominant, but you won't just be completely wasting a slot in a battleground now if you're just coming into PvP.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Blendtec wrote: »
    Also as far as I can tell, so far anyway, there are no new factions in 5.3

    I am 100% ok with that.

    More than 100% ok with that actually.

    I have nothing to champion on my main though. Shame I can't use them to get rep for my alts.

    I really hope they decide that the championing/commendation things worked out well, if they're adamant against going back to tabards. Almost more importantly than having it a feature in the next xpack too, I really really really really really really really want them to enable championing/commendations for all factions, past and present.

    I mean, to be fair, many (most?) old factions at this point are completely trivial to get up if you want to on alts. But as it is right now, as you said, on my main there's nothing to champion. Granted, my main has almost every faction in the game exalted, but yeah...on alts, done with current xpack reps, I wouldn't just championing Aldor or whatever for some old patterns for transmog. Or commendations so if I do decide to take them back and run some old instances or grind some <tokens> they can do it faster.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Players with PvP Power will still be dominant, but you won't just be completely wasting a slot in a battleground now if you're just coming into PvP.
    Unless you're not coming in with decent ilevel PvE gear either.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Even if you're coming in with crappy PvE gear you still have the base 65% resilience which is a substantial difference from what it is now. You won't be super competitive, but it shouldn't be better at least.

    Anyway; BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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    @Ghostcrawler Tri-spec datamined, should we ignore it or is there plans to implement?

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    @NathanJaworski Just an experiment. You can datamine a lot that may not come to pass anytime soon (e.g. Defense of the Alehouse).

    Well there goes that moment of happiness. :(

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Oh, it looks like the heroic scenario loot may be ilvl 516. Dunno if it'll be a random range of ilvls like the current scenario stuff; but that'd make a ilvl req of 496 make more sense and be something to do other than LFR; so...sounds good I guess? And there's some epic cloaks (listed at ilvl 600) that are linked to the Wrathion questline. They each have 3 secondary stats. So that's rad.

    EDIT: Actually I'm mixed about the scenario ilvl. The effort it'd take to get to 496 for a non raider is not trivial and would probably take months easily unless you're profoundly lucky.

    It's a lower ilvl than normal raids, which makes a degree of sense, but then the question is; who is it for? If you're already at 496+ via raiding, chances are you'll move to ToT and have access to 522's. 516's aren't going to interest hardmode raiders since the ilvl requirement is so high (currently) that by the time you get someone to 496 you could just bring them into ToT.

    So that leaves players who do mainly LFR. But it's this nebulous ilvl between LFR and normal raids. It's too high of an ilvl (damn near would need to be in mostly 5.2 LFR gear at least) to be used as an alternate means of gearing up, but will more than likely be well below the ilvl of 5.4 LFR.

    Maybe the sets will have unique models/skins? It just seems odd.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Man all of the Kor'kron stuff in 5.3 sounds pretty cool.
    http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=211671#.

    The Vale stuff though, I wonder if they're going to give any reason/justification for the Golden Lotus/Shado-Pan/Alliance not stopping the Horde from digging up half the zone?

    EDIT: Oh, just read the conversation between Dezco and Taran Zhu. That still seems off; it's not the dug up that whole gorge overnight.

    Lately I've been wondering if they're trying to set up Dezco or maybe even Nazgrim to be warchief; Dezco is pretty unknown and didn't really show up till MoP but he seems to be everywhere now. I know Lor'themar has become the 'frontrunner' because of the 5.1 stuff but that could just be a misdirect.

    Geez. Speaking as a Troll Warrior who has grown to love his race... fuck this storyline. In a good way though. I really got into the story bit where you had to liberate Sen'jin Village. Motherfuckin' orcs attacking my people?! I don't fucking think so! I'm so going to take this new stuff personally.

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  • KeemossiKeemossi Registered User regular
    I don't think getting 496 without raiding will be that hard in 5.3. LFR - gear is 502, and there's 522 VP gear for many slots. And the 522 crafted items will get cheaper as people start DEing ToT gear, too.

    Add item upgrades (at 250 VP / 4ilvls now?), and it shouldn't be too hard to get 496. There's still lots of time before 5.3 hits, after all.

    Though, fresh characters can't reach that really. Which.. kind of goes with Blizzard's idea that you have to go through most of the content to gear a character, or something..?


    I find the new VP items annoying atm.. I have a 476 belt that I would really like to replace, but getting revered takes ages. I have a 476 trinket that I would like to replace, but the hit/agi proc seems really bad for brewmaster (or really for pretty much anything, since it easily puts hit so high it's not possible to reforge everything away). I'll probably just get the pants unless I get really lucky and have tier legs drop this reset.. meh. Kind of feels like there's many items I sort of want but anything I'll buy will end up replaced or redundant really soon anyway :\

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Bleh. Looking at the ilvl 600 Agi "Tank" Cloak, it has Dodge/Crit/Mastery. That's dumb, I'll just end up getting the Agi DPS cloak instead (Crit/Haste/Mastery) for tanking. Dodge as a stat on items is so awful for Brewmasters (and Guardians I think?), I'm not sure why Blizzard keeps trying to push it on us.

    But uh, those cloaks are pretty amazeballs otherwise. 3 secondary stats, holy shit.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Yeah, I hope they reitemize that agi tank cloak. Guardians can go Dodge, I suppose, but as far as active mitigation crit/haste is universally better by pretty much any standard. Dodge does zilch for maintaining rage to maintain regen and such.

    Just replace it with Expertise since you need so much of it now.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Keemossi wrote: »
    I don't think getting 496 without raiding will be that hard in 5.3. LFR - gear is 502, and there's 522 VP gear for many slots. And the 522 crafted items will get cheaper as people start DEing ToT gear, too.

    Add item upgrades (at 250 VP / 4ilvls now?), and it shouldn't be too hard to get 496. There's still lots of time before 5.3 hits, after all.

    Though, fresh characters can't reach that really. Which.. kind of goes with Blizzard's idea that you have to go through most of the content to gear a character, or something..?


    I find the new VP items annoying atm.. I have a 476 belt that I would really like to replace, but getting revered takes ages. I have a 476 trinket that I would like to replace, but the hit/agi proc seems really bad for brewmaster (or really for pretty much anything, since it easily puts hit so high it's not possible to reforge everything away). I'll probably just get the pants unless I get really lucky and have tier legs drop this reset.. meh. Kind of feels like there's many items I sort of want but anything I'll buy will end up replaced or redundant really soon anyway :\

    Yes the VP items on the 5.2 daily factions don't seem that very well thought out. With a token, and maybe some rep tokens from other characters, you can get to revered in just a few days now if you want, but would you spend 900 some VP on a 496 or wait and spend 1250 on a 522. If you can eek out 480 via some finagling with BoE's, PvP gear, etc, you can have access to multiple 522's pretty much as fast as you can get to the 496's so....

    I mean, it's nice that they're there? But they should have been honored, at most or something. As it stands, they just feel weird. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. I just can't imagine spending VP on those items when there are those 522's right there.

    Maybe as a 'buy, queue, sell' thing? That's what I use the 496's off the 5.1 factions for now, to get me into LFR queues before I have the ilvl and save the VP.

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    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • MetalMagusMetalMagus Too Serious Registered User regular
    PTR is PTR and all, but some beta testers are reporting that you can now transmog directly from your bank and Void Storage. On the one hand, that's really how it should have been day 1, on the other THANK YOU BLIZZARD!

  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    They had mentioned before they wanted to do that. Cool that its in.

    They need to take a whole patch cycle (or two or three...) and focus entirely on inventory shit. Doing a tabard menu like titles, figuring out a better solution to holiday items than just filling up your bank or regrinding a holidy to buy something...all the little baubles that quests gave you in MoP, making more things currencies, more things BoA, etc.

    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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