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Debt Ceiling Debacle 2013: It's the End of the World As We Know It and the GOP Feels Fine

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  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    I had a whole analysis of why it might be a good idea for Obama to take the coin off the table now, but then I remembered that neither Republicans nor Democrats believe he'll do what he says anymore. So nothing is off the table! He might negotiate to fuck the poor; he might have minted the coin already and at the 11th hour he'll take it out of his pocket and show it--one side Boehner's crying face, one side Boehner's crying face x'd out with a knife--and then start making executive decisions Two-Face style. Or he might start guillotining House Republicans on the White House lawn. Nobody knows! You call him weak on negotiation; I say he's carefully cultivated his image such that he's the wildcard, bitches!

    ACsTqqK.jpg
    ChanusEdith Upwards
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Give me an update. Are we all going to die soon?

  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Not yet.

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    Taking it off the table gives Obama the perfect opportunity:


    "Default? I already minted it 35 minutes ago"

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    So. Forgive me if this seems like a simplistic question and it may have already been asked and I just missed the reasons in the walls o text.

    Is there a reason to, if the coin were to be minted, that it would only be for $1Trillion. Why not do $2Trillion and give ourselves a bit more breathing room? I know that goes down a crazy slippery slope of minting a $10 trillion, etc coin. But I'm wondering where the $1Trillion figure came from? Is it because of the national Debt is at that limit? and if that's the case, why not go just a little bit higher?

    And please, try to explain it to me like I am a child. because I will not understand it in any other way.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Basically because that's a year's extension, AFAIK.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    spacekungfuman
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    It's roughly a year's extension and it relies upon the Fed actually having $1 Trillion in bonds.

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Ok. that makes sense.

    But, and again I'm being silly in the head about this and I know it and I'm not thinking critically about it at all, but bear with me.

    If that's one year, and this is likely to be seen as a possible recurring issue (i know it will probably be fixed if the coin is minted, but right now that's not an option on the table), then why not be preemptive and make it a 2 year extension? Or a 1.5 year extension?

    Again, I know that there are probably really really really good economic and political reasons for that not to be the case, but I'm trying to think like a simple voter, because in this case that's what I am.

  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    People who are better at explaining it than I did so around page 3 or so.

    Not brushing you off, just don't want to feed you wrong info when I know it's already here.

    Chanus on
    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    oh man. There's a tremendous amount of faith that the Republicans will eat the blame when we throw that wrench into great economic gears. Maybe the Mayans were just off by a few months.

  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    People who are better at explaining it than I did so around page 3 or so.

    Not brushing you off, just don't want to feed you wrong info when I know it's already here.


    Cheers. I'll go back and try to find it. I read the thread but sometimes the salient details in big walls of text and economics speech go through me.

  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Allegedly a voice of reason.
  • Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    So basically one of three things is going to happen:

    1) We default.
    2) Obama reneges on one of his promises (whether it be negotiating with terrorists or minting the coin).
    3) Republicans raise the debt ceiling with no strings attached. Also, free ponies for everyone.

    Shoot me now.

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    So basically one of three things is going to happen:

    1) We default.
    2) Obama reneges on one of his promises (whether it be negotiating with terrorists or minting the coin).
    3) Republicans raise the debt ceiling with no strings attached. Also, free ponies for everyone.

    Shoot me now.

    one in three positive outcomes isn't good...

  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    My guess is we compromise on spending cuts AGAIN. We'll probably even kick the actual cuts down the road again, creating another fiscal cliff (with luck, the last one if we can get a deal to automatically raise it as part of the budget from now on).

  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    My guess is we compromise on spending cuts AGAIN. We'll probably even kick the actual cuts down the road again, creating another fiscal cliff (with luck, the last one if we can get a deal to automatically raise it as part of the budget from now on).

    It really cheese me off that the GOP has apparently figured out a way to force another round of concessions after already negotiating the concessions made in the actual budget.

    Like, "Okay, you gave us the five duffel bags full of unmarked untraceable bills and a plane to Cuba is idling on the runway. In return, we agreed to not shoot the hostages.

    "...Oh! But we never said we wouldn't strangle the hostages! For that we want... a shrubbery!"

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
    spacekungfumanCaveman PawsCorehealer
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    It's because the GOP is a bag of dicks.

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    JaysonFour
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    The worst part is we keep validating their hostage taking, since its the only time they win things instead if just making us lose. On their own, they can block progress by Dems. With these hostage situations, they actually advance their causes.

  • Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    Also because Democrats are the stupidest bunch of lemmings on the fucking planet.

    Captain CarrotEdith UpwardsshrykeJaysonFourCorehealer
  • ChanusChanus I've seen things... Registered User regular
    Also because Democrats are the stupidest bunch of lemmings on the fucking planet.

    Yeah, they are pretty embarrassing at the whole politics thing.

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
    Captain Carrot
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    So basically one of three things is going to happen:

    1) We default.
    2) Obama reneges on one of his promises (whether it be negotiating with terrorists or minting the coin).
    3) Republicans raise the debt ceiling with no strings attached. Also, free ponies for everyone.

    Shoot me now.

    Ugh, I really hope its not number 3, I really cant afford to take care of a horse right now.

    Vanguard
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    I can't wait until the Farm Bill needs to be renewed.

    I hear that milk tastes delicious at twenty a gallon.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I may be coming into some money in about 2 weeks

    What commodity is most likely to retain value after we become mad max, should I buy bullets and cigs

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Guns and ammo, then take anything else you need.

    Duh.

  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Look, I've seen Mad Max a few times so I'm a bit of an expert on surviving postapocolyptia - you're going to want leather and lots of it. And no, it can't be full leather suits, they have to be strip and stuff.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    ill buy a bunch of football gear and black spraypaint and spikes

    guys if the end comes we should get some dune buggies and hit the desert, whoever has the most manly abs gets to wear the hockey mask

    override367 on
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    God damn. A lot of y'all need to take a step back from the ledge. No wonder Democrats don't stand up for themselves, this hasn't even happened yet and we're already declaring defeat.

    V1m
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    ill buy a bunch of football gear and black spraypaint and spikes

    guys if the end comes we should get some dune buggies and hit the desert, whoever has the most manly abs gets to wear the hockey mask

    That's a good idea, if the shit hits the fan you're prepared, if it doesn't you can use your dune buggy to follow Raiders fans around and sell them your shit!

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    emp123 wrote: »
    ill buy a bunch of football gear and black spraypaint and spikes

    guys if the end comes we should get some dune buggies and hit the desert, whoever has the most manly abs gets to wear the hockey mask

    That's a good idea, if the shit hits the fan you're prepared, if it doesn't you can use your dune buggy to follow Raiders fans around and sell them your shit!

    Yeah, if the world ends, I'm gonna steal an MATV and put a couple car seats in it for my kids. Then I'm gonna teach them how to use the weapons and we'll roam the country as a wandering family of vigilante zombie/gang killers. I'll do the long range sniping and setting up bombs, drawing them into the kill zone while my wife handle the CROW system, cutting down the filthy masses.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    I may be coming into some money in about 2 weeks

    What commodity is most likely to retain value after we become mad max, should I buy bullets and cigs

    Buy gun stocks. As long as the GOP doesn't win big in every election that it coming, it's guaranteed to see growth.

    shryke on
  • Brian KrakowBrian Krakow Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    God damn. A lot of y'all need to take a step back from the ledge. No wonder Democrats don't stand up for themselves, this hasn't even happened yet and we're already declaring defeat.

    Because if you take the administration at its word the only way we win this is if the Republicans roll over for no reason whatsoever. Well OK, preventing total economic collapse is a good reason to sane non-sociopaths, but we're talking about Republican congresspeople here.

    Best realistic case (if Obama breaks his word) is probably more austerity. Yippie.

    Edit: Incidentally, the only thing keeping me from yelling incoherent (but non-threatening) swears into Boehner's voicemail tonight was my inability to find a payphone. You win this time, orange man.

    Brian Krakow on
    adejaan
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    God damn. A lot of y'all need to take a step back from the ledge. No wonder Democrats don't stand up for themselves, this hasn't even happened yet and we're already declaring defeat.

    Because if you take the administration at its word the only way we win this is if the Republicans roll over for no reason whatsoever. Well OK, preventing total economic collapse is a good reason to sane non-sociopaths, but we're talking about Republican congresspeople here.

    Best realistic case (if Obama breaks his word) is probably more austerity. Yippie.

    Edit: Incidentally, the only thing keeping me from yelling incoherent (but non-threatening) swears into Boehner's voicemail tonight was my inability to find a payphone. You win this time, orange man.

    Stringer Bell says you should use a burner.

    HonkspacekungfumanTheBlackWindDivideByZero
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    I may be coming into some money in about 2 weeks

    What commodity is most likely to retain value after we become mad max, should I buy bullets and cigs

    Invest in bottlecaps.

    fugacity
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    A water-purifier and walls. Then watch the paintball-episodes of Community.

  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    emp123 wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    God damn. A lot of y'all need to take a step back from the ledge. No wonder Democrats don't stand up for themselves, this hasn't even happened yet and we're already declaring defeat.

    Because if you take the administration at its word the only way we win this is if the Republicans roll over for no reason whatsoever. Well OK, preventing total economic collapse is a good reason to sane non-sociopaths, but we're talking about Republican congresspeople here.

    Best realistic case (if Obama breaks his word) is probably more austerity. Yippie.

    Edit: Incidentally, the only thing keeping me from yelling incoherent (but non-threatening) swears into Boehner's voicemail tonight was my inability to find a payphone. You win this time, orange man.

    Stringer Bell says you should use a burner.

    He also says you shouldn't take notes on post about a motherfuckin' criminal conspiracy!

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
    spacekungfumanAstaerethSquigie
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    God damn. A lot of y'all need to take a step back from the ledge. No wonder Democrats don't stand up for themselves, this hasn't even happened yet and we're already declaring defeat.

    Because if you take the administration at its word the only way we win this is if the Republicans roll over for no reason whatsoever. Well OK, preventing total economic collapse is a good reason to sane non-sociopaths, but we're talking about Republican congresspeople here.

    Best realistic case (if Obama breaks his word) is probably more austerity. Yippie.

    Edit: Incidentally, the only thing keeping me from yelling incoherent (but non-threatening) swears into Boehner's voicemail tonight was my inability to find a payphone. You win this time, orange man.

    I agree. The administration has said (1) it will not bargain over the debt ceiling, (2) it will not use the 14th amendment and (3) it will not mint the coin. The only stand I can are them changing is (1).

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    As I said in the last thread, I'm in full on "burn it down" mode. They're clearly willing to destroy everything, I feel like right now we can exercise at least some control over how it happens. Lets do this.

  • “Revolt is the right of the people”
    ― John Locke

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Worst case scenario, we build some guillotines.

    Just kidding.

    About the guillotines that is. We'll use guns. We ain't French.

    Hacksaw
  • “Being all equal and independent, no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions.”
    - John Locke

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