Sam will kill him if he tries anything [Consenting Hobbits Again]

maritzac

First thread is here

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/140497/consenting-hobbits/p1

Discussion was pretty interesting when the whole thing reached 100 pages, so I thought I'd open a new one. Forgive me if I'm stepping on someone's toes or if it's already done and I missed it.

Anyway, found this today. It's pretty funny although a little repetitive.

http://www.ealasaid.com/misc/vsd/

Blackbird SR-71C

Oooookay this time in the right thread.

Saw it in non-3D non-48 something something so just standard quality. Spoilered just in case

- CGI ranged from great, fully believeable to somewhat irritating. Could've gone with a little less, and I'd say it's not quite as good as the original Trilogy
- Performances: Absolutely brilliant. Actually, funnily enough, I thought Gandalf was lacking, at least in the beginning. Maybe it's just bad translation (german version), maybe it's just the source material
- Could've done with less drag. The whole run towards Rivendell and basically EVERYTHING involving Azog felt out of place, except the flashback with Thorin
- Radagast: Bad as a character, good as a Wizard. Boring and uninteresting by himself, he rises to Gandalf-level when the Spiders start attacking or he's at Dol Guldur
- Rivendell: Saruman is NOT the head of the Istari. The plot tells us so, at least in the original Trilogy, but he's not. I'm not even sure there exists an organization of wizards or if that's just something Saruman decided himself and no one ever bothered to object. He's arrogant, he doesn't give two shits about his colleagues and it's mysterious no one figures out he's a bad guy from the beginning. Did Galadriel sell her wisdom for the gift of telepathy?
- Smaug and the Necromancer: Appearantly they're supposed to have a line or two in this? Well, not in the german version! So all I got to see of both is some CGI
- Why's the leader of the Elves (Glorfindel?) at the battle of Erebor riding on an elk? Yes yes, elves are the "nature race" in this universe but not like that, at least not according to LotR and not to the Hobbit either. And then they just go? WHAT?! So they undertake this journey, leaving their homeland and consuming lots of supplies just to troll the Dwarves? No wonder they can't stand them

Final verdict: Would watch again, way better than expected, a film no LotR fan is gonna be disappointed by*



*No guarantee for non-disappointment

Centipede Damascus

Blackbird SR-71C wrote: »

Oooookay this time in the right thread.

Saw it in non-3D non-48 something something so just standard quality. Spoilered just in case

- CGI ranged from great, fully believeable to somewhat irritating. Could've gone with a little less, and I'd say it's not quite as good as the original Trilogy
- Performances: Absolutely brilliant. Actually, funnily enough, I thought Gandalf was lacking, at least in the beginning. Maybe it's just bad translation (german version), maybe it's just the source material
- Could've done with less drag. The whole run towards Rivendell and basically EVERYTHING involving Azog felt out of place, except the flashback with Thorin
- Radagast: Bad as a character, good as a Wizard. Boring and uninteresting by himself, he rises to Gandalf-level when the Spiders start attacking or he's at Dol Guldur
- Rivendell: Saruman is NOT the head of the Istari. The plot tells us so, at least in the original Trilogy, but he's not. I'm not even sure there exists an organization of wizards or if that's just something Saruman decided himself and no one ever bothered to object. He's arrogant, he doesn't give two shits about his colleagues and it's mysterious no one figures out he's a bad guy from the beginning. Did Galadriel sell her wisdom for the gift of telepathy?
- Smaug and the Necromancer: Appearantly they're supposed to have a line or two in this? Well, not in the german version! So all I got to see of both is some CGI
- Why's the leader of the Elves (Glorfindel?) at the battle of Erebor riding on an elk? Yes yes, elves are the "nature race" in this universe but not like that, at least not according to LotR and not to the Hobbit either. And then they just go? WHAT?! So they undertake this journey, leaving their homeland and consuming lots of supplies just to troll the Dwarves? No wonder they can't stand them

Final verdict: Would watch again, way better than expected, a film no LotR fan is gonna be disappointed by*



*No guarantee for non-disappointment

Smaug and the Necromancer do not have any lines in the English version, but Smaug definitely will talk in the next movie. I'm not sure about the Necromancer, though.

As far as the elf king (Thranduil), he's king of a much more nature-oriented elf kingdom than either Rivendell or Lothlorien. I'm pretty sure the books explicitly describe them that way. Their kingdom is very close to Erebor too, close enough that they probably heard the noise and saw the smoke when Smaug attacked, and went out to see what was going on before saying "Oh crap, a dragon!"

maritzac

Well, the Necromancer had one line. He whispered "Radagast".
As for Thranduil he's Legolas dad, and I'm sure he was put there just so Leggy can come up in the next movie, because I re-read the Hobbit recently and I don't quite remember they mentioned his name there.

ouzaru

They didn't. That's Peter Jackson having fun with old cast members. But establishing all that, and really selling the enmity between elves and dwarves is pretty crucial, and making it personal for one of the main characters is critical. In LotR you have two representatives of a race overcoming what amounts to racism, and they get over it pretty quickly;

with such an integral character trait as Thorin's anger and distrust of pretty much everybody and elves in particular coming to the fore during their prison time in Mirkwood and finally in the last chapter before the Battle of Five Armies, I think it's safe to say that showcasing Thranduil at the beginning serves more purpose than just "setting up Leggy". I think you overestimate just how much Legolas will be in the second film, too; I'd be shocked if he gets more than 5 minutes of screen time, not to mention a little cranky.

With regards to Blackbirds gripe about Saruman,

Saruman is head of the White Council. He was also considered by Gandalf to be the more powerful and wise of the five Istari. At that point in the story he was already kind of a dick, but it would be worthwhile to remember that they'd been in Middle Earth for hundreds of years already at this point. You don't oust the wisest and most powerful wizard from the White Council simply because he's kind of a dick to Radagast; in any event, it's hard to read his judgement of Radagast as anything more than disappointment without already knowing that he flips his shit and serves Morgoth in LotR. These people had a job to do in the world of men, and Radagast kind of lost himself in the natural world; in the books he's far, far less useful than they show him to be in the film. Wouldn't you be peeved if a dude you signed up for a project together didn't show up to meetings and showed up talking about rabbits and covered in bird poop when you've clearly got orcs and wargs mucking about the countryside? I feel like his part was aggrandized considerably simply because they thought he was a rad character and deserved some heroics: in the books, he saves Gandalf from the top of Orthanc quite by accident!

I dunno, I think the embellishment of characters is dangerous ground to tread precisely because it tends to make the framework of the story a little wobbly.

Christ, i'm a nerd.

maritzac

Well, I dunno how much time Legolas is gonna be in the second movie, but to be fair, the Elvenking mentioned in the book doesn't even have a NAME -which is, well, weird. It is good that they can ground the character that's going to play a very important role in the Battle of Five Armies.

I do need to reread LOTR but in the movie -which I DID watch recently- Gandalf sort of levels up after defeating the Balrog and turns into Gandalf the White, and when they come to Orthanc and Saruman is there, Gandalf simply commands his staff to be broken, as if he had turned in fact into the authority now.

saluksic

Thranduil definately is the Elvenking, so that's alright.

I hope the Battle of the Five Armies is well done. That should be a pretty intense action scene, I'm just wondering if it will be in movie two or three.

Antimatter

saw this tonight

it was stellar

loved bilbo's playing with the pipe

Gatsby

Something I really loved that I didn't notice until a second viewing

was Gandalf always keeping count of everyone even in the most dire of situations

Dichotomy

just remember


dwalin is the best

Gatsby

Also the most punctual.

Centipede Damascus

Gatsby wrote: »

Something I really loved that I didn't notice until a second viewing

was Gandalf always keeping count of everyone even in the most dire of situations

maritzac

HAhahahaha

maritzac

Well you know, as soon as Gandalf was NOT there to count, Bilbo got lost and no one even noticed!

And in the book, in Mirkwood, Thorin goes missing and no one even notices the absence of his majestic presence until a couple of days after.

Veldrin

maritzac wrote: »

Well you know, as soon as Gandalf was NOT there to count, Bilbo got lost and no one even noticed!

And in the book, in Mirkwood, Thorin goes missing and no one even notices the absence of his majestic presence until a couple of days after.

In their defence, they were all a little too tied up dealing with the giant spiders for most of that time to notice who was present and accounted for.

facetious

God that thread title gave me some weird flashbacks.

The Harry Potter fandom used to be fucking crazy.

101

Gatsby wrote: »

Something I really loved that I didn't notice until a second viewing

was Gandalf always keeping count of everyone even in the most dire of situations

I loved these scenes so much. Every one of them

Munkus Beaver

You didn't notice the counting?

That's one of the first things I picked up on! The entire theater was laughing!

Darmak

I don't get why it's funny though

Munkus Beaver

Darmak wrote: »

I don't get why it's funny though

See above cartoons.

Because he was counting them like a nanny counts children.

Exactly like a nanny counting children. Right down to his tone and inflection.

Darmak

Well I mean that's cute, yeah, but not all that funny

ouzaru

maritzac wrote: »

Well, I dunno how much time Legolas is gonna be in the second movie, but to be fair, the Elvenking mentioned in the book doesn't even have a NAME -which is, well, weird. It is good that they can ground the character that's going to play a very important role in the Battle of Five Armies.

I do need to reread LOTR but in the movie -which I DID watch recently- Gandalf sort of levels up after defeating the Balrog and turns into Gandalf the White, and when they come to Orthanc and Saruman is there, Gandalf simply commands his staff to be broken, as if he had turned in fact into the authority now.

He is named in LotR, and specifically referenced as the King of the Mirkwood Elves.

And you're right, the rebranding of Gandalf as the White is pretty significant. He's fairly unsure and nervous before he goes back to "heaven", but he's all business when he returns as Gandalf the White. But it's not as though Saruman didn't deserve being the White when he was first tasked to come to Middle Earth. Like everyone else in the Tolkien-verse, Curunir started out as a well-meaning decent guy.

maritzac

Indeed, it's implied that it was the Palantir that corrupted Saruman

Tunahead

Saw it just the other day. A pretty decent film. Talky bits were the best, action scenes ranged from fairly decent to completely awful. They basically got worse the more "epic" they tried to be. Eventually they got so bad that they ruined the actual concept of action in its entirety for me. I can never do or experience anything with my senses ever again without feeling intense loathing for the whole situation, whatever it is, just because something is happening. That's how terrible it was.

Especially that fall down that goblin shithole that went on for what felt like miles and mildly inconvenienced Thorin's gang. "Oh no, I had to bypass the physics and common sense in their entirety to not die! What a nuisance for a non-Istari dwarf such as myself!"

Blackbird SR-71C

Tunahead wrote: »

Saw it just the other day. A pretty decent film. Talky bits were the best, action scenes ranged from fairly decent to completely awful. They basically got worse the more "epic" they tried to be. Eventually they got so bad that they ruined the actual concept of action in its entirety for me. I can never do or experience anything with my senses ever again without feeling intense loathing for the whole situation, whatever it is, just because something is happening. That's how terrible it was.

Especially that fall down that goblin shithole that went on for what felt like miles and mildly inconvenienced Thorin's gang. "Oh no, I had to bypass the physics and common sense in their entirety to not die! What a nuisance for a non-Istari dwarf such as myself!"

But it wasn't really falling. They rolled all the way down there. Did you never roll down a hill? It's not all that dangerous.

Druhim

Ah, Tuna's one of those moviegoers. "This fantasy children's story with wizards and demons and giant fuckoff intelligent eagles totally wasn't realistic when they fell down into this goblin city!"

Dichotomy

shows what he knows, that was all one long practical effects take anyways

maritzac

but they're supposed to be sturdy as hell

Syphyre

To be fair, there is a difference between fantastical worlds and slapstick fantasy physics. It is a silly scene. It didn't detract from the movie, it was just...silly. (Honestly the entire goblin city part was.)

Hunter

Druhim wrote: »

Ah, Tuna's one of those moviegoers. "This fantasy children's story with wizards and demons and giant fuckoff intelligent eagles totally wasn't realistic when they fell down into this goblin city!"

Gandalf casts Feather Fall.

Party take no damage.

CorporateLogo

I could have done without the stone titan part

Dichotomy

man what that was one of the best parts

BusterK

I loved Lord of the Rings but I did think the Hobbit suffered when it tried to be "epic" with slow mo and speechifying which did not suit the tone of the story at all

Theodore Floosevelt

I'm having trouble thinking of slow mo beyond Balin's recounting of Thorin V Azog

and that slow mo felt proper, as the story felt like a slice from a dwarven epic

I liked the speeches too, though I'm thinking of Bilbo's lil speech which was appropriate and hobbit-sized.

JayKaos

The only slow-mo that bugged me was

Thorin dramatically walking off the tree and charging the white orc.

And that was less because of the slow-mo and more because yeah you're a great noble king going after a personal vendetta while your men are about to fall to their death as you walk dramatically past good job there

maritzac

what are you talking about, guys, that part was AWESOME

maritzac

And no, it was more like, we're going to die anyway, better go fighting instead of running away

Dichotomy

JayKaos wrote: »

The only slow-mo that bugged me was

Thorin dramatically walking off the tree and charging the white orc.

And that was less because of the slow-mo and more because yeah you're a great noble king going after a personal vendetta while your men are about to fall to their death as you walk dramatically past good job there

it was pretty clear it was a hopeless situation and everyone was scrabbling to stay alive as long as possible while absolutely terrified and despairing

thorin gets up and goes to fight because he's made up his mind that he and his fellows are basically dead already- trying to help any of them up would be a futile gesture, as the orcs would just kill them anyways, and besides a good number of them could stand up just like thorin did if they wanted to- so he steps forward to try to earn a measure of satisfaction before he dies. he all but does the whole "FROM HELL'S HEART I STAB AT THEE" speech

and then everyone else is paralyzed by fear except for bilbo who is the most heroic and then that shocks everyone else into action and those that can get up and try to fight back too and the music and augh such a good movie

Theodore Floosevelt

JayKaos wrote: »

The only slow-mo that bugged me was

Thorin dramatically walking off the tree and charging the white orc.

And that was less because of the slow-mo and more because yeah you're a great noble king going after a personal vendetta while your men are about to fall to their death as you walk dramatically past good job there

Mixed feelings about that:

It was partially portrayed as a slow mo badass walk

but then there was also the personal vendetta that Thorin got tunnel vision on (and was subsequently whooped upon for doing so)

and the Nazgul theme played during this. The choral parts make for a big dramatic showdown, but I don't think the fact that they chose to play the music that accompanies fallen, selfish kings was for nothing.

It's likely I'm reaching here, but I don't have the movie in front of me yet to clarify the scene (or prove my memory terrible)

edit: I'm just thinking on the idea of it being more than a defiant last stand. When I watched it I just thought it was, well, a defiant last stand. Thorin didn't seem to be abandoning them so much as... I'll stop saying last stand.

ouzaru

Look what came today.



If no one hears from me in 7 days, I starved to death reading it.

Centipede Damascus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhLvwIUuLWg