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[Camelot Unchained] Beta 1 2017!

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Posts

  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    I loved the shroom caster and the Necro, interesting concepts, execution could have been better but they were pretty sweet.

  • Ragnar DragonfyreRagnar Dragonfyre Registered User regular
    As long as no PvP-based MMO in the future does what GW2 did, split faction can work. GW2 allowed free server transfers long before any sort of server patriotism could develop, so people took the easy path and moved to the winning server which seriously damaged PvP in that game.

    Server transfers shouldn't even be available in a game until at least 6 months to a year has passed. Free server transfers should NEVER have been a thing. Communities need time to develop and if the population is liquid, then it never will.

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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny A Storyteller Registered User regular
    Well, some server transfers would be needed due to GW2's 'home server' system. You know, so people can play with friends.

    Just not the 'free for all' transfers that existed.

  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    I think in a game like this you should only ever be allowed to transfer to the losing side to bolster its ranks, especialy if they have perks in place for extra Xp and such for sides who are on the "losing" end. I will say for sure , that I loved all the classes Daoc had to offer, all of them were fun and unique in their own way.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    I am going to say I am cautiously excited about this. Next to WoW DAoC is my most played MMO. I played across my 3 mains probably 120+ days or more. I loved DAoC. Hell found some old screenshots of my pally in his epic armor. In fact I will say the armor and weapon design are some my favorites. Simple and realistic as I can remember in a game.

    But MMOs are also a source of disappointment. I may kick in some cash to the kickstarter with a lot of hope behind it.

    Also 2-h pallies for life!

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  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Live interview with Mark Jacobs. *Updated to non live link*

    Roe on
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    This is definitely going to be my first kickstarter contribution. DAoC is still my favorite MMO, and a prequel/sequel by the original Mythic founder that completely rips off the factions is exactly what I want.

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  • KadokenKadoken Registered User regular
    Subscription?

  • kraz007kraz007 Registered User regular
    We do have info - it's a Marc Jacobs baby! For many people that's enough. It's like a Sid Meier's Civ.

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  • StrifeRaZoRStrifeRaZoR Registered User regular
    DAoC discussion?! I was in love with Thanes shortly after release, but my true calling became the Cabalist. For PvE, at least. The sheer damage they could do with their pets was an amazing thing. Not to mention someone found out about Spirit Cabalist and their crazy body debuff that let them life tap for 40% of the target's health every second. Then there was the ol' City of Avalon power group. Paladin guarding an Ice Wizard which were both buffed by an Enhancement Cleric. Those 3 alone could take a character from 10-50 in mere hours. I recently went back to the game (About 6 months ago) to check things out. It's roughly the same, but they've really streamlined leveling. You can go from 10-50 in Battlegrounds in a single day. It's still a fun game, but the UI is still horrible.

    Sorry, just nostalgia'd all over my keyboard.

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  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    There's a new website up, as well as a blog that talks about kickstarter benefits.

    Here's a link to the full kickstarter perk list. It's in PDF form if you really like those kind of things.

    Roe on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    I like that there still is devs wanting to make more hardcore games. One of the reasons why I was not able to get into GW2 the most was that I didn't feel I was really unique- I was just another warrior on the battlefield.

    DAoC was certainly a demanding game, but if you invested into it, it heavily paid dividends. I also played RvR as a Necromancer and as quirky as the class one, and at times, not at all ideal (medium range, low damage, high health magic caster) boy did I pull some tricky and fun fast ones. Nothing like taking out two stealthers at the same time or placing traps as an ethereal ghost. Just a bit of an update, the Kickstarter is already at $500,000 at the time of this writing and Marc Jacobs himself has said he is putting in $2M of his own money if the Kickstarter goes through.

  • KillTrashKillTrash Gaming Fiend Registered User regular
    I'm backing this up because I loved DAoC and I'm also tired of the countless casual WoW clones in existence and in development nowadays.

    -Malac
  • MadpandaMadpanda Registered User regular
    Backing this because I still come back to DAoC every year or so for the rvr. Maybe its rose colored glasses as it was my first mmo but I haven't found anything that competes.

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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    The only thing I am concerned with is the limited classes and races AT THIS TIME. One thing I loved about DAoC was the fact that it had dozens of unique classes and so many unique races. I mean, each realm had quirky, but cool classes, like the Friar, or the Bonedancer. Quirky- but oh so cool.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I'll buy this when it comes out, for sure. I'll be damned if I'm throwing money at the kickstarter, though. That isn't enough money to actually make the game, so this is enough money for them to get a publisher, and god knows what'll happen between now and then.

    What is this I don't even.
  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    I have never played DAoC but I loved PvP on WAR, so I am definitely interested in seeing this succeed and hopefully a revival of the Candymancers.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    The PvP in DAoC was so much better than WAR. I was so disappointed in WAR because I went in looking for a DAoC replacement.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    I also gave them $50.

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  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    WAR was still better than the PvP in other MMOs I have played, I just missed out on DAoC because I was still addicted to Asheron's Call at the time and didn't really care about PvP yet.

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  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'll buy this when it comes out, for sure. I'll be damned if I'm throwing money at the kickstarter, though. That isn't enough money to actually make the game, so this is enough money for them to get a publisher, and god knows what'll happen between now and then.

    Uh, Mark Jacobs is putting $2M of his own money into budget if the Kickstarter goes through and he said he also has another individual ready to invest $1M on top of that again, if it funds. MMOs may not need publishers as much as people think, for example, the client and patches will be sent out via torrent.

    So the idea of you wanting to support the game, but not on Kickstarter is just a little counter intuitive given what Mark has already stated.

  • Bobkins FlymoBobkins Flymo Fantastic Registered User, Moderator mod
    I edited the title because we're trying to discourage drivebys with their random kickstarters. I know this is a shitty rule to work with, but we got so much spam when kickstarter really took off with the public, and we're trying to make it clear that such shit isn't allowed.

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  • DigitalSynDigitalSyn Dr Digital Cumming, GARegistered User regular
    I've decided to back this. The latest update seems really really interesting and is actually something I thought would be neat a long time. UI to be browser based rather than using the game engine. This will save a lot of overhead for sure and allow for some cool features. Hope they can pull it off.

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  • RoeRoe Registered User regular
    There are continuing updates by Mark on the website which cannot be linked. Some fun stuff there, including a rendered model, and a lot of artwork.

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    The concept of "full RvR" is so appealing to me...

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  • eelektrikeelektrik Registered User regular
    Its nice to see people willing to risk doing a niche MMO. I think the problem with so many MMOs and why many are switching to free to play is that they are trying to please everyone and failing, and that they are setting their subscription number goal far higher than they should. I don't see this game ever falling into that trap, they seem to know exactly what they want to be and who they want to be playing it so I imagine they have a realistic number in mind for a sustainable subscription base.

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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    The fact that all your advancement is tied to RvR with no PvE component worries me. It just seems like, especially with their focus on less "easymode" more hardcore mechanics, they're going to create a situation where the strong will get stronger and the weak will get weaker.

    For PvP to work, you need sheep and you need wolves. If the sheep have no grass to eat (PvE content), they don't hang around. Or the ones that do get quickly eaten by the wolves. When the wolves run out of sheep, the strongest wolves starting eating the weakest wolves, until they have nothing left to chew on but themselves.

    And I'll wage that no one wants to "pay their dues" by being the RvR bitch, doing the menial "not fun" tasks associated with non-combat advancement in order to level up to the point where they can compete with the wolves.

    Anyone remember Shadowbane? Perfect example of where I think Camelot Unchained will end up. Famous words of the developers, "I don't play games to bake bread. I play games to crush."

    Unforunately (especially since Shadowbane had the potential to create a really solid PvE experience, and their lore was outstanding), no one agreed with them. Once your "nation" got stomped by the other guys, your only options were to slink off to another corner of the world in hopes people would leave you alone long enough to rebuild (hint, they didn't), join the nation that stomped you (so much for building loyal communities) or just quit and play something more fun (and everyone did).

    I wish them the best of luck, and I hope I'm wrong.

    But if you read their blogs, it seems like they're more focused on dissing "modern" MMOs that they view as "easymode" then focusing on what might actually make a compelling MMO.

    Doing something because it's cool and revolutionary is one thing, but doing something because you have a rose-colored view of the past is maybe not the design philosophy to take.

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Maybe, but I also 100% agree with them. I hope it gets funded. We need a good RvR game that is built from the ground up to be RvR.

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  • MadpandaMadpanda Registered User regular
    In shadowbane yea having 1 uberguild dominating everything else was a problem. I'm not really worried about that with a 3 realm system. Sure there were times in DAoC where certain realms dominated either due to numbers or long standing class issues (hello stungard) but I think Unchained will account for that so it doesn't happen to such a server killing degree.

    Will have to see how progression through RvR is going to be balanced. Trials of Atlanatis in DaoC is pretty much universally seen as a bad move as it required a metric ton of pve to be competitive in RvR.

    If Unchained has a balanced progression level e.x a rank 2 isn't 200% as powerful as a rank 1 or whatever, I don't think it will be a bunch of wolves and poopsockers ruining everything.

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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Which we won't have until game devs get PAST the idea that conflict has to result in one party being punished and the other rewarded. If you want to make a game that has compelling RvR, you should reward people for simply fighting, whether they win or lose, and make that the reward. The game should punish people for NOT fighting, with dire consequences for doing NOTHING. But instead, the systems are designed to punish 50% (the inevitable loser) of the population for attempting to do what they're trying to have fun doing instead. And everything on their kickstarter site and blog points to their 100% belief that people really want a game with that punishes people for failure.

    ironzerg on
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    If they make it like DAoC where there is good reason for 2 factions to team up against 1 if the 1 is far ahead, then it'll work fine. And I don't think there's anything wrong with making the game specifically for people who don't care at all about PvE and just want DAoC's RvR again. Honestly, they have a better chance of making a good game if they focus all their resources on pleasing just that set of people, instead of trying to pull in people from other MMOs who want other things.

    The only thing it requires is enough people who want to pay for that kind of game, but that assumption should be made if the project gets funded.

  • vicarious fanvicarious fan Registered User regular
    I honestly don't believe a 3 faction PVP MMO system works anymore. The big reason is that MMO players these days always go for the easiest path. For example look at WAR ( yes i know its 2 faction but hear me out) and GW2. At first people liked the big epic battles... until they lost then they found it was easier to avoid the big battles and just attack where the enemy isn't.

    Now ideally in a 3 faction system the 2 weaker groups should work together and attack the larger one. This rarely happens. Instead we get 1 big faction and the next biggest faction attacking the smaller faction because it's easier.

    EVE gets around this by allowing the corporations to be destroyed from the inside and people forming all new corporations.

    Now I still want to see this game happen but i'm skeptical of it being a hit.

    Darkewolfe
  • vicarious fanvicarious fan Registered User regular
    Enig wrote: »
    I know it's just a buzzword, but "old school" is the worst way to describe an MMO to me. MMOs have evolved a lot over the past decade+ and for good reason.

    That said, RvR is fun stuff in GW2, and I never played DAoC, so I would be interested to see another implementation of this in an MMO.
    I think developers just use it to say their game isn't going to be WoW.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm not convinced the DAOC system will work again. It worked well at the time, but the way people play and view MMO's has changed substantially.

    What is this I don't even.
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    And here's my thoughts on the whole DAOC thing. Was it really that great? I mean, at the time it was really viewed as an Everquest clone, with the only different feature being the RvR PvP. But it wasn't really competing against any other MMO for that space, hence it sort of positioned itself where it had no competition. And reading through the Wiki, it looks like the subscriber estimates barely topped 200,000, whereas I think Everquest topped out at around 500,000.

    So really, where is all this evidence for DAOC being the golden child of RvR? Ultimately, it really wasn't that popular of a game, and it had zero competition at the time to even give you an apples:apples comparision of RvR.

    All we have left is people popping up every now and then proclaiming DAOC to be the "gold standard" of RvR that no game has failed to recapture, without any evidence showing that it really worked in the first place.

    And to be even more cynical, the last couple big MMOs to launch touting their PvP systems has talked about how "we have guys who worked on DAOC, it's going to be amazing!" like SW:TOR and GW2. And maybe those are just boasts, with no real substance to them. But can anyone point to anything of any quality these guys have put out in the last 10 years that should give us any indication they know what they're doing?

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  • WitchdrWitchdr Registered User regular
    eelektrik wrote: »
    WAR was still better than the PvP in other MMOs I have played, I just missed out on DAoC because I was still addicted to Asheron's Call at the time and didn't really care about PvP yet.
    AC was my first MMO as well. I tried to get into DAOC right away but i didnt have a credit card and those were well before the days of pre-paid time cards. I finally did get into DAOC ~ a year after it released and I still go back to that game for RvR. I'd be happy if he just made DAOC 2 (clean up the PvE a bit, keep the leveling speed more toward what it is now in DAOC not how it was at release).

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    DAoC was really not much of a EQ clone unless you focused on the PvE which isn't really true. It was much less punishing than EQ though it was still grindy. But it wasn't the core of the game. It took then about a year to get it to the point it probably should of been at launch with the addition of the battlegrounds so you could RvR through out leveling. The RvR was something to behold at its height. There were servers where one side tended to be stronger but due to the time it took to level and the connection one made to the server this wasn't something that lasted forever. Outside of Merlin, I remember that servers Mids were super dominant.

    DAoC was never designed to be an EQ killer at the time. It was a niche game. Built around pvp on a mass scale. It is a niche game, 200k is about where it should be. The idea of having it be 2 million subscribers I don't think is their goal though they would be be happy with that.

    Also SW:TOR had 0, I repeat 0 of the pvp from DAoC. GW2 got closer but through internal decisions like the unlimited transfers for a long time and the small map sizes it was kind of small scale and movement but WvWvW is still a lot of fun.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    DAoC's RvR 3 faction system worked because there was no benefit to being 2nd place picking on 3rd place. GW2 failed at this in WvW at least at launch(I don't know what's changed) because the only real objective of WvW was to try to be 1st or 2nd place so you'd get points to go up the ladder. In DAoC you were trying to get artifacts and it just made more sense for 2 lower pop factions to work against the #1 instead of against each other. It's just how the game was designed.

    And yes @ironzerg, DAoC really was that good, at least the RvR. If you didn't play it at the time, you will never have the same experiences of those that did, but it did something that no other MMO has done. GW2 tried with WvW, and there were times when it came close to recapturing that magic, but making WvW just another avenue of playing the game means less participation from the average server.

    What DAoC fans really want is a game that's like DAoC. Pretty much all focused on the RvR combat. Just like people who liked SW:G dream of another sandbox MMO. They're niches, but it doesn't mean you can't be successful in that space. It's better for the devs to know what they're trying to make, instead of just trying to get in to the MMO space.

    Joshmvii on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Yeah I was going to say... You've clearly not played DAoC in it's prime if you think that their RvR was lame. I lament at how awful the RvR is in MMOs nowadays every time I try it out. Rolling with 100+ Midgards and Albs to take down a tower that Hibernia just took was amazing... I STILL think about it. I think the 3 faction thing works. As said above, there is no reason for #2 and #3 to fight so they will generally team up against #1... Then it goes around in a circle.

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  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    RvR was amazing in DAOC (kobold shadowblade represent) because there was nothing to compare it to. It was shit game design compared to where we are now, though.

    What is this I don't even.
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