The adult Titans aren't teen heroes, though. They were when they debuted, sure, but they've been at least in their twenties for decades. Hell, just prior to the reboot the JLA included Starfire, Cyborg, Donna and Dick all as members.
It was kind of weird back in the 80s when pretty much all the "teen titans" were in their early to mid twenties. Heck, Donna Troy got married in 1985.
DC has a strange response to the criticism that the New 52 has a problem with diversity, along with the criticism that there have been too many needless* deaths in comics lately.
*Yes, story isn't out yet, but it takes a lot for me to not consider a comic book death needless. Especially editorially mandated ones.
John Stewart hasn't been written well since Ron Marz and Judd Winick were writing GL and Joe Kelly used him in JLA, but killing him off is a stupid idea. There's a lot to fix with the character and surely that's a more rewarding venture than getting rid of him.
+8
NogsCrap, crap, mega crap.Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered Userregular
I mean
I dont care about character deaths in themselves
Character death isnt even about the character that dies.
Its about the void they leave and the way their past relationships deal with the loss.
Like if a story had alfred killed, it wouldnt really be about alfred
Itd be about batman coping without his main guy there anymore. What does the bat look like without his caretaker and common sense compass?
But ya, if its just for shock value, thats bullshit then.
Id only want to write a characters death if I had guaranteed control over the next two following story arcs after the death.
If Fialkov wanted to kill Stewart then okay. Skeptical on how good it would be but hey he is the writer.
But since he didnt want to and DC was shoving that demand into a story they already okayed, and promised they wouldn't mess with after doing so, that is some heinous bullshit.
Green Team will probably be both good and fun which is very welcome!
But I'm gonna have to disagree with Superboy being so-so, Adventure Comics and Lemire's Superboy afterwards were fun, well written and often had gorgeous Manapul art.
And while Superboy and Supergirl are getting new writers, considering the cover and promo art for Superboy features a dripping bloody S-shield and Justin Jordan being acclaimed for Luther Strode(which is good, but pretty crazy violent) I am not holding my breath at all.
And Titans being bad is a much bigger deal than it would be pre-reboot, as the majority of all of DC's teen heroes are in it. Not to mention that it fucked pretty heavily with characters like Tim Drake, Cassie and Raven in horrible ways.
I don't care about Element Woman at all but I am curious enough about the new Atom that I am going to give Justice League another arc. (I was ready to drop it)
I liked Stewart when he was an architect, the guy was tough but he didn't come off as a trope either. How many freaking black tough as nails army guys are there? Marine no different. It's one of the weakest and most basic things you can do with a black character that requires no imagination and creativity. They become a walking plot point and half the time trodden out to be taken down so the main guy can look all the tougher for succeeding. I remember reading how a reader once wrote DC and thanked them for not making John the stereotypical black tough army dude, if he was still reading I bet he was damn disappointed.
God why kill the black guy? You just KNOW it will have all the people who swear that comics are racist up in arms. And they might even be right.
Also @Nogs I think this is the problem with character death. It is often not about the character and more about who they leave behind. That's why killing off a side character that people are super invested in purely for shock value(especially a minority one) is bad because it's all about the main character.
For example I don't care what Batman would look like without Alfred. It would just accumulate in him kneeling on the ground yelling "noooo" while holds a butler uniform when he realises Alfred isn't there anymore to change the oil on the batmobile. Like... Who cares.
That's why often when women are killed off to give the main lead a reason to go all grimdark it feels cheap and boring. Look up "man pain" once I read about that I couldn't un-see it. It's everywhere and it's lame.
Edit: and I'm aware that man pain refers to women being killed off but I feel that similar principles apply to other characters too.
Now saying that DC was surprised / panicked by the internet outcry of the mere rumor that Stewart be killed, and have reversed course
who knows what really happened, but if the end result is that people at DC saw that there is still lots of interest in Stewart then maybe we'll get a decent fucking story about him in the near future.
edit: but the real crime here is that DC's brutal stupidity cost us a great writer, now made even more pointless if they've reversed this decision
CBR confirmed that the John Stewart Death story was in fact true, so they probably just realized how big of a shit storm it would be if they made another indie writer do it after one walked off and the internet raised alarms.
But really, there is no reason to not think it is true
two fairly high profile books lose their writers, specifically Fialkov says:
There were editorial decisions about the direction of the book that conflicted with the story I was hired to tell, and I felt that it was better to let DC tell their story the way they want.
then a source says that Editorial wanted John Stewart dead.
Diggle was pretty adamant about portraying Superman as a shining example of good and not emo or grimdark and allowing the villains around him to embody those characteristics. I'm going to guess they wanted Diggle to make Superman darker than he was willing to go.
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NogsCrap, crap, mega crap.Crap, crap, mega crap.Registered Userregular
God why kill the black guy? You just KNOW it will have all the people who swear that comics are racist up in arms. And they might even be right.
Also @Nogs I think this is the problem with character death. It is often not about the character and more about who they leave behind. That's why killing off a side character that people are super invested in purely for shock value(especially a minority one) is bad because it's all about the main character.
For example I don't care what Batman would look like without Alfred. It would just accumulate in him kneeling on the ground yelling "noooo" while holds a butler uniform when he realises Alfred isn't there anymore to change the oil on the batmobile. Like... Who cares.
That's why often when women are killed off to give the main lead a reason to go all grimdark it feels cheap and boring. Look up "man pain" once I read about that I couldn't un-see it. It's everywhere and it's lame.
Edit: and I'm aware that man pain refers to women being killed off but I feel that similar principles apply to other characters too.
man what. alfred dying would have so much more impact than just "nooo" and "im sad". the guy is literally the ONLY support network bruce has. bruce is fucked in so many interesting ways without alfred.
the other stuff is just bad storytelling and id argue that anyone that cant make a death actually affect the characters in an interesting and meaningful way for at least a couple story arcs isn't thinking hard enough about their characters.
I don't disagree I think that Alfred is an amazing character and supports Batman hugely. His death should mean a lot but unless you had a top notch writer on it it wouldn't.
I just don't see the pay off of Alfred dying being worth loosing such an awesome character.
Which was the point I was trying to make. Killing someone soley to see how the lead reacts isn't worth it.
(by the way I kind of feel that's what has happened with Damian although I'm waiting for the INC arc to conclude before I make that call 100%)
So, it looks like Jamal Igle(most recently of The Ray and Smallville: Season 11) won't be working for DC anytime soon:
I know that rumors are to be taken with a grain of salt. However, even if the idea of killing John Stewart was discussed, I only have one response.
I'm done.
You don't kill your highest profile african american superhero for a cheap pop, DC. A character who is more familiar to non mainstream comic fans than Hal Jordan is, frankly. It's stupid, short sighted thinking.
Also, judging from the fact that he's a Colonel and the field leader of the USA's superhuman field team I would be shocked if Steve Trevor is under 30, at least in the present.
Igle's a pretty good artist who has done some really rad series at DC.
His work is about as bland and schitzophrenic as it gets. Good for him for standing up for his beliefs. In fact, great for him. But, he isn't what I would consider a loss for DC.
Diggle was pretty adamant about portraying Superman as a shining example of good and not emo or grimdark and allowing the villains around him to embody those characteristics. I'm going to guess they wanted Diggle to make Superman darker than he was willing to go.
Judging by any none Morrison Superman coming out of DC I'd bet that's it.
Igle ain't the greatest artist in the world but Firestorm and The Ray, as well as his work on 52, we are totally solid comic book art and way better than a large chunk of DC's books currently.
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It was kind of weird back in the 80s when pretty much all the "teen titans" were in their early to mid twenties. Heck, Donna Troy got married in 1985.
*Yes, story isn't out yet, but it takes a lot for me to not consider a comic book death needless. Especially editorially mandated ones.
I dont care about character deaths in themselves
Character death isnt even about the character that dies.
Its about the void they leave and the way their past relationships deal with the loss.
Like if a story had alfred killed, it wouldnt really be about alfred
Itd be about batman coping without his main guy there anymore. What does the bat look like without his caretaker and common sense compass?
But ya, if its just for shock value, thats bullshit then.
Id only want to write a characters death if I had guaranteed control over the next two following story arcs after the death.
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
But since he didnt want to and DC was shoving that demand into a story they already okayed, and promised they wouldn't mess with after doing so, that is some heinous bullshit.
What happened with Raven?
:?
Also @Nogs I think this is the problem with character death. It is often not about the character and more about who they leave behind. That's why killing off a side character that people are super invested in purely for shock value(especially a minority one) is bad because it's all about the main character.
For example I don't care what Batman would look like without Alfred. It would just accumulate in him kneeling on the ground yelling "noooo" while holds a butler uniform when he realises Alfred isn't there anymore to change the oil on the batmobile. Like... Who cares.
That's why often when women are killed off to give the main lead a reason to go all grimdark it feels cheap and boring. Look up "man pain" once I read about that I couldn't un-see it. It's everywhere and it's lame.
Edit: and I'm aware that man pain refers to women being killed off but I feel that similar principles apply to other characters too.
Now saying that DC was surprised / panicked by the internet outcry of the mere rumor that Stewart be killed, and have reversed course
who knows what really happened, but if the end result is that people at DC saw that there is still lots of interest in Stewart then maybe we'll get a decent fucking story about him in the near future.
edit: but the real crime here is that DC's brutal stupidity cost us a great writer, now made even more pointless if they've reversed this decision
two fairly high profile books lose their writers, specifically Fialkov says:
then a source says that Editorial wanted John Stewart dead.
Doesn't sound unlikely at all.
Killing off Jimmy Olsen?
man what. alfred dying would have so much more impact than just "nooo" and "im sad". the guy is literally the ONLY support network bruce has. bruce is fucked in so many interesting ways without alfred.
the other stuff is just bad storytelling and id argue that anyone that cant make a death actually affect the characters in an interesting and meaningful way for at least a couple story arcs isn't thinking hard enough about their characters.
PARKER, YOU'RE FIRED! <-- My comic book podcast! Satan look here!
I just don't see the pay off of Alfred dying being worth loosing such an awesome character.
Which was the point I was trying to make. Killing someone soley to see how the lead reacts isn't worth it.
(by the way I kind of feel that's what has happened with Damian although I'm waiting for the INC arc to conclude before I make that call 100%)
Azzarello established Diana is 23(apparently he wanted to make her older but editorial disagreed)
Justice League took place 5 years ago
which would make her 18
meanwhile Steve Trevor is probably what in his mid to late 20s. Maybe even early 30s?
That makes their relationship kinda super skeevy, or at least Trevor's interest in her
Doubly so since she was really naive and confused about man's world
Woooooow.
And no one cared.
Igle's a pretty good artist who has done some really rad series at DC.
His work is about as bland and schitzophrenic as it gets. Good for him for standing up for his beliefs. In fact, great for him. But, he isn't what I would consider a loss for DC.
Judging by any none Morrison Superman coming out of DC I'd bet that's it.
Looks totally fine to me
Well, I like Lee's art sometimes but he is usually way too rushed and scratchy.