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corporate military
VBakes
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
http://sanityforsale.wordpress.com/2007/03/18/blackwater-bushs-shadow-army/
Anyone else think this kind of thing is very wrong? I really don't like where this kind of thing can go. It basically describes the bush administrations use of contractors.
Anyone else think this kind of thing is very wrong? I really don't like where this kind of thing can go. It basically describes the bush administrations use of contractors.
Therman Murman?......Jesus.
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It's a violation of my ironic rights.
Edit: How exactly do these people get like... licenses to go be mercenaries? Is their training different/harder/easier than regular military?
Anyone care to explain what the problem is with using mercinaries in security roles?
I have a friend that is an operator for Blackwater, as well as some friends who are operators for various other contractors. They're not out there conducting black ops, they're out there guarding convoys, VIPs and major arteries through the cities.
Guys who work for top tier contractors are typically honorably discharged SEALs, Rangers, Delta, Recon, etc.
I support the Hired Hession act of 2007.
It's more focused, and you generally need prior military experience to be approved for their schools. A large majority are ex-special forces.
You remember those 4 guys in Fallujah? Also, the lack of oversight and ability to prosecute crimes committed.
This is a correct statement.
I don't hate Blackwater because I think they're "out there conducting black ops," as opposed to security roles. I hate them because they capitalise on the political sensetivity of deploying military troops into low combat-intense areas.
That sort of sensitivity should not be encouraged. Ever.
I think what he means is a worry over possible constitutional overreaches committed by these private security firms when they operate against American citizens. Its not the same as having them in a country that is embroiled in civil-war.
I have no problem with my dog shitting all over everyone else's lawn as long as he doesn't do it on mine.
The problem is, working for a contractor you don't get the same level of intel you do as the military. Officers for these companies typically have to use thier connections in the military to get a basic level of intelligence for a mission they've been asigned. Unfortunately they were walking into a hornet's nest and the intelligence didn't filter down far enough. It's not like these guys didn't know what they were doing or how dangerous thier job was.
Plus, the military needs to start worrying about the warcrimes being committed by the egotistical puffed-chest 18-year-olds they're handing M16's. They're doing far worse than contractors, believe me.
if no one else can help...
and if you can find them....
then maybe you can.
Another reason I dislike their existence and use.
They weren't properly equipped by the companies own standards, were missing rear gunners, and didn't have a map of their path. The situation was bad by all means, but they got fucked over by the company too, to top it all off.
I agree, but that's far from a justification for the use of these mercenaries.
When you have gangs roaming a city with AK-47's shooting at hospitals and innocent bystanders, your police force (ha!) has fled the city, the National Guard can't get mobilized due to the severity of the damage to the infrastructure of the state, and modern, organized, civilized society as we know it is crumbling, I don't think it's out of line to hire a team of very capable contractors (read:bad asses) to step in to protect civilians from someone else's fuckup.
New Orleans/Katrina was a worst case scenario. The day you see a team of Blackwater operaters fast rope out of a helicopter in the parking lot of Wal-Mart to stop a kid from stealing a pack of bubblegum you can be worried.
Are you implying that I should stop selling assault rifles to thugs?
Because that's where a large part of my income comes from.
If a scenario like that ever played out, where police and national guard are powerless, and there are armed gunmen roaming the streets with AKs, and society is crumbling, we're far past the point where mercs will be effective at stopping anything.
The thing is, as a contractor, you have the option of saying "No." You don't get that right in the military. Blackwater "brass" and these operators figured this would be a quick trip just like all the others. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. That doesn't make the blame placed squarely on Blackwater's shoulders.
It was called hurricane Katrina.
Mercs were IN Louisiana when Katrina was going on, it did a lot of good.
O_o
New Orleans was far from that in most all respects and primarily due to FEMA being slashed and burned. (Also, ACE failures regarding the levees) It operated just fine in previous disasters of a near equivalent level. If you can afford to hire an outside company to do what you refuse to pay your own agencies who are charged with those jobs something is seriously fucked up.
As long as you tell them to turn the 'gat sidewayz.
How is a contractor having the 'freedom' of deriliction of duty supposed to endear me to their use? Also, you can refuse orders if you find something morally questionable. You'll get discharged, but you can do it. The blame doesn't lie solely at Blackwater's feet, but they certainly do deserve some of it. The system setup where firms like Blackwater are charged with military duties also deserves a good bit of the blame.
Did you actually watch the news during Katrina or just listen to the rhetoric about it after the fact?
BZZT. It was that bad. Armed gangs roamed the streets. The NO police were nonexistant and most fled the city. Some even caught on tape looting stores (thanks youtube!).
Honestly, NO is a shithole of a city, it's a shame they're trying to rebuild it.
Either way, someone fucked up royally and the innocent people of NO needed help RFN. The Guard was too clumsy to mobilize effectively so the gov't called the next best thing. What's the problem?
As far as the ACE stuff, I remember reading somewhere that the ACE reccommended a levee that would contain a class 5 hurricane in the upgrade a number of years back but the city decided it was too expensive.
I can never understand what the fuck they're saying. They come into my shop and start spewing vocal diarrheea, and I say something snarky like "Do you ever get the idea that someone is trying to communicate with you... And just failing? Miserably?" Then they vomit forth some sort of coagulation of vowels not unlike the fish sperm confection that the Japanese seem to enjoy, usually along the lines of "ma'ou'ah'ah."
Then I say something else snarky. I'll give them a tablet and say in the most patronising way possible, "Try to draw what it is that you want."
Interestingly enough, not a single one of them has ever had the testicles to stand up for his right to talk and dress like a fucking three-year-old.
I just talked to friends and family members afterthefact.
I told them they shouldn't have moved there.
what people exactly are you talking about?
They accomplished about as much as a purely security-oriented force can accomplish in a situation like that. What was the better alternative?
EDIT: Then again, I fail to see why Blackwater should be operating in Iraq, either...fucking mercs cause nothing but problems.
Thugs, I would imagine, as per his OP.
You and me both. The lack of accountability is a huuuuuge problem with using mercinaries. But in a situation like that I don't know if there were many alternatives.
"thugs", right.
Oh God, here we go.
Cite? All the reports I had seen and read about shots being fired were all retracted later on.
The Guard and FEMA wasn't capable of mobilizing in part due to the government giving money to firms like Blackwater over government agencies like the National Guard and FEMA. How do you explain the track record and responses to previous disasters? Also, I hope you aren't seriously holding up Katrina as a model example of how useful private contractors are.
Well the fact that you sell guns and they clearly don't feel they have enough guns may have a hand in that.
You probably said it in an East European accent, as well. You're definitely sounding more and more like a character from a Bond film.
Gang bangers, survivalists, "neo-nazis," pseudo militants, soldiers of fortune, wannabes and otherwise.