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The Vintage PC thread: Because MS-DOS gaming still rules

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Posts

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    I dare you guys to name a most mindblowing game intro on the 486 than Ultima VII's.

    CHALLENEGE ACCEPTED





    Both done 100% real-time.

    Commander Zoomkaliyama
  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    even then it took several minutes, it's amazing how I was willing to wait so long to play. That game was my life for a few months.

    I have memories of a friend's Commodore 64 taking like 15 minutes to load a game. It could be time playing tricks on me, but at a time when booting up the PC involved sitting around watching the RAM tick up to 640K, I remember finding the C64 load times horrifically long, like time to bike down to the convenience store and buy popsicles and come back long.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    Orogogus wrote: »
    even then it took several minutes, it's amazing how I was willing to wait so long to play. That game was my life for a few months.

    I have memories of a friend's Commodore 64 taking like 15 minutes to load a game. It could be time playing tricks on me, but at a time when booting up the PC involved sitting around watching the RAM tick up to 640K, I remember finding the C64 load times horrifically long, like time to bike down to the convenience store and buy popsicles and come back long.

    Your memory is correct. I have a C64 that is decked out with JiffyDOS and a 1541 Ultimate SD reader. if I disable fast loading in jiffy dos and unplug the fast load cart and set the SDrive to accurate emulation of the floppy drive or tape drive.... hooooooly hell the loading times are ridiculous.

    Like, as you said, 15 minute load times. As in, "hey, let's run to the corner store and buy a case of beer while this game loads" long. I timed Revenge of the Mutant Camels when it loads normally - 13 and a half minutes from 'load "*", 8, 1' to title screen.

    EDIT: Some of the C64 games I own don't even do that rainbow color thing when it loads. Just a black screen for like 5 minutes until the loader pops up. So, unless you're patient, you might think the thing screwed up and isn't loading.

    Let me tell you, it's hell waiting several minutes in silence at a black screen wondering "is it even loading?"

    TheSonicRetard on
    Maguano
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    I definitely didn't have e enough HDD space for the full Wing Commander III. And I did have the gameplay TREs installed, it was just SLOW.

    I dare you guys to name a most mindblowing game intro on the 486 than Ultima VII's.

    "AVATAAAAAR...."


    EDIT: Also, I remember that all DVD-ROM drives used to come with a proprietary hardware video decoder card, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to run the movies... And that meant that several games had bundled versions that would only work in the complete, proprietary setup, like the amazing double sided Wing Commander IV dvd.

    Luckily, Internet people, like Gulikoza, HCl and several DOS-Box guys made incredibly smart little patches that allowed anyone to run those games. And this was how I bought the dual side WCIV DVD for like 15 dollars on eBay and was able to play it.

    I actually bought that DVD off of eBay and then bought a dxr2 card so I could play it.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    So my redbook audio cable came this morning in the mail, tonight I'm going to finish hooking up my CD-Rom drive and try out some of these old games with redbook audio. Pretty stoked.

    Incidentally, I'm having a hell of a time getting a PS/2 mouse recognized in dos. I'm connecting it via a serial mouse converter, so it's connecting to a serial mouse port. It also is having trouble being recognized in Windows 95. I can get it recognized as a ps/2 mouse, but whenever I try to install the ps/2 mouse driver from either a CD-Rom or floppy, when it reboots, the driver isn't in C:\windows\system.

    oh well.

    EDIT: Oh, and speaking of C64 loaders, this is one of the few C64 games I had as a kid before we got the 8088:



    That is basically my entire memory of the C64 right there. I used to think that loader was soooooo fucking cool, especially compared to our 8088's PC speaker. The game was pretty legit, too, although I played with a joystick because we lacked a mouse.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Well, I also went through the whole "15 minutes of cassete tape loading". But I'm talking about 4 to 6 minutes before EVERY SINGLE MISSION, including retries... And I usually played several missions in a row. That was really tedious. But not long enough to do anything. But the game was worth it.

    And Ultima VII was more mind blowing to me not only because of technology, but the whole "The avatar is playing Ultima VII on his PC and then the Guardian shows up and OMG HE'S TALKING" thing.

    But OK, those videos are indeed amazing.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • McFlynnMcFlynn Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    I wish I saw this thread a few months ago. I have a legal digital copy of DOS 6.22 I got from Microsoft recently but ended up not needing. It's like 8 floppy disk images, but still could have saved you some money, TSR.

    McFlynn on

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    it's cool, having legit, floppy versions of dos and windows 95 has wound up being beneficial to me in the long run. Plus it's neat to own and it impresses geek girls like no other to pull out a brick of windows 95 floppies.

    So I got Descent II running in full, glorious redbook audio. Internally, this computer is complete. All I need to do is finish the modifications to the case.

    Apogee
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    I compared the PC Dos version of Super Street Fighter II Turbo to the Amiga CD32 version of the same game last night.

    Jesus. Fucking. Christ. I know the A1200 was aging at the time, but maaaaan the difference is insane. Visually they look on par in stills, but in motion. Just wow. Probably the biggest gap between two competing platforms I've ever seen. And yeah, I'm counting stuff like comparing the genesis version of strider to the nes version.

    Doesn't help that the Amiga CD32 version of SSF2T is extremely rare.

    EDIT: Both have the exact same superb soundtrack, though, which they share with the 3DO version. The Saturn and PSX versions have different soundtracks.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • EriktheVikingGamerEriktheVikingGamer Registered User regular
    edited October 2013
    I'll just leave these here:

    200px-RAIIbox.jpg
    Beat it. On the hardest difficulty. Without dying once. With a joystick. (flexes gamer muscles)
    Megarace.jpg


    The bestest announcer!


    Also, holy shit Terminal Velocity.

    EriktheVikingGamer on
    Steam - DailyFatigueBar
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    I really hated those on-rail games. I looked at Rebel Assault and almost had a rage fueled rampage. TIE-Fighter and X-Wing forever, man!

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
    Sir CarcassBlackbird SR-71CCommander Zoom
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Printed out some labels for a few of my cards:

    M6wDyUr.jpg

    I still have like 20 more to go. I got a blister on my thumb from rubbing the glue off these cards and my hands ache. So that's enough for today. I'm having fun designing these little 250 x 150 labels.

    StormwatcherSir CarcassTeeManCommander ZoomIolo
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I threw together a list of parts and ordered them for a windows 95/98 machine like I'd been describing above. The following:

    joihE3Q.jpg

    Intel Pentium 233 mhz MMX processor and generic socket 7 motherboard

    O9aZhRe.jpg

    Two 32-mb EDO RAM sticks for a whopping total of 64 mb of ram WTFHOLYSHIT

    IJLFUge.jpg

    S3 Trident 9750 SVGA AGP video card with 4mb vram

    VIhgdHG.jpg

    8mb 3DFX Voodoo 2 accelerator PCI

    3Zbu4xz.jpg

    Generic AT case

    MslrFB8.jpg

    Microsoft Sidewinder gamepad

    I already had the a spare CF card reader and a few extra cf cards to be used as the harddrive, as well as this:

    1OKbGUZ.jpg

    total cost, just a hair under $80 including shipping, which isn't too bad. I also picked up a game to go along with this monster Windows 95 machine:

    4COTe83.jpg

    EDIT: Once this arrives, the FIRST thing I'm installing is this:

    Grim_Fandango_artwork.jpg

    TheSonicRetard on
    Sir CarcassStormwatcherMcFlynnSalvation122Commander ZoomMrVyngaardSynthesisApogee
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Man, screw you. Dude.
    I bet that FFVII box cost you more than the computer.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
    Maguano
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    I'm excited, I've never owned a voodoo card before. That said, I have a ton of nostalgia for that 1996-1999 era of gaming. Being an avid arcade gamer at the time, I still remember the look and feel of voodoo graphics. I'm shocked to learn that no PC port of Guantlet Legends was ever released.

    I also bought a big box version of Jazz Jackrabbit 2, because my version is missing the box. I recently installed Action Quake 2 on that PowerMac I posted a few pages back, and plan on installing it on this PC too. I have very fond memories of playing that game against my buddy when we were in highschool, and the last time he was in town he mentioned that we should play some action quake. He's coming back into town in december, so hopefully we can get that game running in DM again.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    So I also got a new case for my 486. I think this will be a better case to mod going forward than my other one because this is built for a full-sized AT mobo (the other is for a baby-AT):

    $T2eC16J,!yME9s5qF2B9BRmqffPgKQ~~60_3.JPG

    old, worn, and busted. I'm going to give this a go in the retro bright and make it look new. The custom faceplate I've made with a gameport, serial mouse port, and keyboard port should fit on this as well, as it's just a 3.5" bay enclosure.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    I had one just like that. But I think 90% of them 486's came on that case.

    And Voodoo is awesome. Do you think my VooDoo 3 3000 PCI will work on Windows 8? As a second card?

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    No idea, like I said, this is the first voodoo card I've ever owned. There is a Diamond Edge 3D Sega Card for sale on ebay right now going for $179, but it sounds like it might be malfunctioning. I'm still so tempted.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    So I know the FFVII PC soundtrack gets shit on by a lot of people because it uses different instrumentation than the PSX version, but this song in particular is fucking awesome:



    it sounds like something out of Final Fantasy 6. I've played FFVII so many times, I'm looking forward to playing it again with different music and using a sidewinder. People say that the GLIDE Voodoo 2 version of FFVII looks much better than the D3D or OpenGL versions and can't really be properly recreated on modern hardware. We'll see.

    Synthesis
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    So, just shopping around for loose ends to finish up both of these PCs, I ran into a few cool accessories. I bought 2 of these:

    mz9w7yD.jpg

    4BPjwFYl.jpg

    These are gameport face plates for the front of the PC. They look way nicer than the ones I've been making, so I decided to pick them up. The one with all the USB and the volume knob is going in the 486, and the one with the PS/2 mouse port is going in the Pentium. The 486, I've decided, won't have a mouse. Very few of the games I play on it use the mouse, and for stuff like sam and max and those sorts of lucas arts games, I'll just play them on my pentium instead.

    Speaking of which, I picked up a trackball mouse for the pc:

    gklngg0l.jpg

    It's serial, but I have a serial->ps/2 converter, and the port on the PC is actually going to be converted back to serial before going into the PC. That'll allow me to hot swap mice on my computer, as well as use more modern mice.

    5GiCpKP.jpg

    I picked up a Gravis Gamepad pro to go with the sidewinder. I'm treating the pentium like the "next gen" version of the 486. Regular Gravis Gamepad and capcom fighter 6 are for use on the 486. Gravis Gamepad Pro and Sidewinder are on the Pentium.

    I bought a few uninteresting cables, too. A flexible AGA riser, and 2 flexible PCI risers. This is because the pentium is going to be mounted horizontally, and I can't be bothered to find a PCI riser made for that specific case (it only comes with an ISA riser). I also bought some AT keyboard extension cables, which I will run inside the PC and mount on the front of each machine, giving me an easily accessible keyboard port on the front. Unfortunately, unlike the mouse, since this is an AT keyboard, it can't be hotswapped while the PC is running.

    Speaking of keyboard, I also picked up this:

    5M1CNiu.jpg

    This is a programmable USB and PS/2 keyboard that's fully customizable. You connect it to a modern PC via USB and you can set each key to perform a number of complex macros. The thing emulates keystrokes and sends them to the PC as a real PS/2 keyboard. Using a PS/2 -> AT converter, I'll be able to hook this thing up to these PCs to provide a small keyboard solution that'll let me navigate menus of provide things like Y or N keys to exit games. It has 26 keys, but you can use keys as toggles to access another set of keys (indicated with an led light) to give yourself 52 keys total. The thing is rougly as big as a number pad on a keyboard, and you can even slide images into the keys to personalize them.

    Neither of these computers will be able to turn on without a keyboard present - that's the nature of these old machines - so this will serve as the official keyboard for these computers. It sounds small enough to not be annoying when plugged in, and could be set next to a player when he's playing a game, along with a trackball if mouse support is needed.

    I bought Turok 2, as well, to give myself one more game that I remember being a really big deal with voodoo cards.

    Sir CarcassStormwatcher
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    Good lord, TSR.

    You better hope you don't live in my area, because I will be coming over to hang out and play some games.

    ShadowenMrVyngaard
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    My DOS era ended a little early, so I'm very grateful for gog and the like.

    See, I wanted a Sound Blaster AWE32. And I was very happy when my dad got it for me.

    And then any computer I installed it in until it finally gave out years later simply was not able to detect a CD drive while in DOS.

  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Fucking loved my Voodoo2 back in the day. The first game I ran on that thing was Unreal which blew my goddamn mind.

    Sir Carcass
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Zxerol wrote: »
    Fucking loved my Voodoo2 back in the day. The first game I ran on that thing was Unreal which blew my goddamn mind.

    Somewhere I still have a PC Gamer from 1996 talking about how absolutely fucking insane it was to have OpenGL Quake running at 800x600 30FPS. There's a screenshot of the timedemo results and the caption just read HOLY SHIT.

    Honestly, in my opinion, everything else since then has just been gravy. I genuinely don't understand why people go apeshit over framerates or not displaying at 1440p or whatever.

    MrVyngaard
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    last update until I actually get the stuff in, I swear, but I went ahead and bought a PCI USB card. That will let me plug this baby into my PC:

    lN87PsF.jpg

    This was my mouse until about 2005 when I switched to a gyroscopic mouse for my HTPC, and this has always been my absolute favorite trackball controller. The placement of the trackball where my thumb goes felt great back in the day, and kinda felt like a blend between an N64 analog stick and true mouse controls.

    Together with that programmable keyboard, I'll be able to have KB&M controls that are stationary and small enough to fit on a TV tray.

    EDIT: Holy shit, I just looked up what a new microsoft trackball goes for, and they're selling online on ebay for like $100. I am 100% certain that mine wasn't that pricey when I got it. That's nuts!

    TheSonicRetard on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    I had a VooDoo3 3000 and holy fuck was that thing a workhorse. To give you an idea of how long it lasted, I replaced it with a Radeon 9600, the thing that came with a preoder of Half-Life 2. What an amazing card.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I had a VooDoo3 3000 and holy fuck was that thing a workhorse. To give you an idea of how long it lasted, I replaced it with a Radeon 9600, the thing that came with a preoder of Half-Life 2. What an amazing card.

    The voodoo 3 was when they stopped being accelerator cards and started producing video cards, right? I remember that particular card being hyped so hard. My father and I belonged to a computer club in Houston called HAL-PC around that time, and our saturday routine included getting up early and spending most of the day (and well into the night) at the club with our PCs, participating in various special interest groups (computer programming and gaming for me, MCSE A+ cert and various oddball SIGs for him). There was a microcenter, a chain of retail computer electronics stores that are kinda like fry's, across the street from this office building that HAL-PC was located at and we'd stop there every weekend for nick-nacks, like CD-Rs (lots of video swapping went on at those gaming SIGs and CD-Rs were the absolute cheapest storage solutions at the time, often giving you gigabytes of space for pennies at their height).

    Anywho, behind the registers at this particular microcenter, they had a wall of 3DFX Voodoo 3s, the high end model. I dunno if that was the 3000 or 5000 or whatever, but they had this blue box with a close up shot of this dude's eyes that were glowing neon green. I remember staring at that box for months, longing for one. Like I said, I never got my Voodoo card, so obviously I never did get to make that purchase. But I remember a few other people in the gaming SIG had them and, when we'd do lan parties, they would look so incredibly smooth. I remember playing against some of the guys in those days in Quake 3 - they were using their PCs and I used my dreamcast connected to a monitor using KB&M.

    Fuck I miss those days, that was such a fun thing to grow up with.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Since you're throwing down the mad bank on your project you might as well find a Roland MT-32 somewhere, though that would be primarily useful for your older rig.

    My uncle used to have one and it kicked so much ass especially considering I was a PC speaker only man until 1997 or so.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Since you're throwing down the mad bank on your project you might as well find a Roland MT-32 somewhere, though that would be primarily useful for your older rig.

    My uncle used to have one and it kicked so much ass especially considering I was a PC speaker only man until 1997 or so.

    The funny thing is, none of this stuff is mad bank. All this shit is dirt cheap these days. Like that PCI USB card I bought, I got for $2.

    TheSonicRetard on
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    last update until I actually get the stuff in, I swear, but I went ahead and bought a PCI USB card. That will let me plug this baby into my PC:

    http://i.imgur.com/lN87PsF.jpg

    This was my mouse until about 2005 when I switched to a gyroscopic mouse for my HTPC, and this has always been my absolute favorite trackball controller. The placement of the trackball where my thumb goes felt great back in the day, and kinda felt like a blend between an N64 analog stick and true mouse controls.

    Together with that programmable keyboard, I'll be able to have KB&M controls that are stationary and small enough to fit on a TV tray.

    EDIT: Holy shit, I just looked up what a new microsoft trackball goes for, and they're selling online on ebay for like $100. I am 100% certain that mine wasn't that pricey when I got it. That's nuts!

    I had that mouse. Always was such a pain in the butt to clean though. It would seemingly get clogged up with shit all the time, and not rotate. And always when you're in the middle of a deathmatch too.

  • quarthinosquarthinos Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I threw together a list of parts and ordered them for a windows 95/98 machine like I'd been describing above. The following:

    total cost, just a hair under $80 including shipping, which isn't too bad. I also picked up a game to go along with this monster Windows 95 machine:

    4COTe83.jpg

    I still have my FF VII and FF VIII disks. Be careful with the FF VII box. I remember it falling apart on the way home from the store... I think the big sleeve that holds the four discs is exactly the outside width of the top of the box. If you look at the pic you posted, you can see the upper-right corner of the sleeve is bent.

    I also think my discs got scratched to hell and gone (on the data side :( ) because the cardboard of the sleeve is... scratchy?

    I played in in hardware accel mode when I first got it, but now I just play it in 100% software mode (I think if you go for software, versus DX, mode you get all the features, just verrrry sloooowly on original hardware). I can't have really played it in hardware mode, I never had any of those video cards... You'll want to copy the MPEG movies onto the HDD, 'cause they're not compressed well and CDs of the time were SLOW.

    quarthinos on
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    last update until I actually get the stuff in, I swear, but I went ahead and bought a PCI USB card. That will let me plug this baby into my PC:

    http://i.imgur.com/lN87PsF.jpg

    This was my mouse until about 2005 when I switched to a gyroscopic mouse for my HTPC, and this has always been my absolute favorite trackball controller. The placement of the trackball where my thumb goes felt great back in the day, and kinda felt like a blend between an N64 analog stick and true mouse controls.

    Together with that programmable keyboard, I'll be able to have KB&M controls that are stationary and small enough to fit on a TV tray.

    EDIT: Holy shit, I just looked up what a new microsoft trackball goes for, and they're selling online on ebay for like $100. I am 100% certain that mine wasn't that pricey when I got it. That's nuts!

    I had that mouse. Always was such a pain in the butt to clean though. It would seemingly get clogged up with shit all the time, and not rotate. And always when you're in the middle of a deathmatch too.

    to clarify, I didn't buy a new mouse. I've had this mouse for years now. I'm just rebusting it out. I used to keep clear of the gunk problem by playing with the ball all the time, haha. There were a few times I'd lose the ball and the mouse would become useless. But treating it like a toy also meant frequent trips under the sink faucet, which kept it clean of thumb gunk.

    Hopefully, since this won't be an every day mouse, it won't get gunked up.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Also, holy shit Terminal Velocity.

    Damn it, hearing you say that reminded me I have all of Starfighter 3000 sitting in a ZIP file in my download directory, and no way to play it. GAH.

    I played, and finished, TV, but never SF3000....

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Digging around in a closet last night, looking for that microsoft trackball mouse, I stumbled across this:

    Baldur%27s_Gate_II_-_Shadows_of_Amn_Coverart.png

    Now, when I bought and played this, I'm certain I had something in the 500 mhz to 800 mhz range, and I played it way after it came out. but, looking at the minimum specs for the thing, I baaaaarely can make it.

    I'm so fucking excited to replay this game. When I played through Dragon's Age, all I kept thinking was "Oh wow, it's kinda like in Baldur's Gate II, except easier" over and over again. this was the first WRPG I ever played, and I'm curious to see what it'll be like now that I've had a few under my belt.

  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    I'm pretty sure I played BG2 on my 200 Mhz PC. I know it came out the week I got married and I got it soon after, and the first game I played on my "new" 1.2 GHz PC was Black & White, which came out about 6 months later. I played all the way through it and don't remember having any problems with it.

  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Honestly, I'd put BG2 in the "better play it on a modern machine" box.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Honestly, I'd put BG2 in the "better play it on a modern machine" box.

    I don't particularly see why. I don't remember it being a taxing game.

  • eEK!eEK! Registered User regular
    Honestly, I'd put BG2 in the "better play it on a modern machine" box.

    I don't particularly see why. I don't remember it being a taxing game.

    I think it could run on low spec machines, but you had to turn down the AI path finding CPU allocation and some other stuff.

    Sir Carcass
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    It's not that it's taxing, but it runs super fine on a modern machine, and then there are hi res mods that make it look so good and you get rid of the super long load times.
    It's not a DOS or a Glide/win9x only game like so many others. The modern experience is not emulation.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
    camo_sig2.png
    Shadowen
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Dug out system shock 2 last night. It was another game I played around the same time I played BG2. Turns out I also just barely scrape the min specs required for it as well, so I'm gonna install it when the rest of my PC arrives.

    Sadly, I've lost my big box for SS2. All I have is the jewel case now. I'm trying to find my old copy of deus ex, but I dunno if I can run that or not. Incidentally, I'm shocked at how spread apart and buried my old PC collection has become. There are games I'll probably never find that I know I owned at one point, like FX Fighter (awful game).

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