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[Catholic Cover-Up] A Cardinal, a Monseigneur, and 500 children walk into a bar

AtomikaAtomika not a robot.does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
The L.A. Times is breaking today with news that starting back in the mid-1980s, the Los Angeles Archdioceses has be involved in an active conspiracy to cover-up accusations of child abuse and molestation in over 500 cases. Primarily, the investigation has centered on the now-deceased Monseigneur Peter Garcia, responsible for an alleged 17 cases of abuse himself, who the the Cardinal, Roger Mahoney, in league with Monseigneur Thomas Curry, ordered to be removed to a New Mexican dioceses to escape prosecution and remove risk of PR problems with the L.A. diocese.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57565286/evidence-shows-bold-l.a-priest-abuse-cover-up/

Mahony wrote on July 22, 1986: "I believe if Monsignor Garcia were to reappear here within the archdiocese we might very well have some type of legal action filed in both the criminal and civil sectors. Signed, sincerely yours in Christ, most reverend Roger Mahony."

Monsignor Curry concurred: "There are numerous - maybe 20 - adolescents or young adults that Peter Garcia was involved with in a first degree felony manner. The possibility of one of these seeing him is simply too great."

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Posts

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Not that it lessens the horror of the thing, but this isn't "new" evidence. These are the court filings being released pursuant to the terms of the settlement that's already taken place.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Can someone please explain to me why the feds haven't gone after the Catholic Church using RICO?

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    I think they have a few times.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    At least around Michigan, the Catholic Church seems to be locking into a death spiral due to this and a few other things.

    Just hemorrhaging members, especially around the Tri-Cities and Flint (Saginaw Diocese membership has been in freefall for over ten years now, by their numbers last year they were down almost 80% from their peak in the late 90's). It's pretty clear why, I could write two pages on it, but people are very vocal about their anger at the Church, and they're being told that they don't know what they're talking about, nothing's wrong, nothing was ever wrong.

    A lot of problems, big and small, even a few of them imagined. But they handle them all the same way, from the most trivial slight to the most serious abuse: Deny there ever was a problem and if things get out of hand shuffle everyone involved off to other parishes or other diocese and hope the problem doesn't follow them.

    And that's the real problem. They could have dealt with most of these, solved the minor ones and at least be going in the right direction to solve the major ones. But instead they're just turning over the cushions and denying there ever was a problem, so every problem the Church has had in almost twenty years is all there, festering, unresolved and just getting worse.

    Hevach on
    Zealot
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    You know, every six months are so, I think to myself, "Self, you should really go through Confirmation, be all official." And, like clockwork, the /next day/ something like this happens, and I think better of swearing allegiance to Mother Rome.

    sig.png
  • TarranonTarranon Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    Tarranon on
    You could be anywhere
    On the black screen
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    If any practicing Catholic said that, they are impossibly misinformed as to how other denominations' hierarchies work.

    Basically, none of them work like Catholicism. The CoE/CoS is close, but nothing on that scale.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    ...yeah, if it's the case that this happens in every organization, what deranged brain looks at that scenario and thinks "welp, nothing to be done, i suppose."?

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    If any practicing Catholic said that, they are impossibly misinformed as to how other denominations' hierarchies work.

    Basically, none of them work like Catholicism. The CoE/CoS is close, but nothing on that scale.
    I thought Greek Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox were similar, too...?

  • EgretEgret Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    If any practicing Catholic said that, they are impossibly misinformed as to how other denominations' hierarchies work.

    Basically, none of them work like Catholicism. The CoE/CoS is close, but nothing on that scale.
    I thought Greek Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox were similar, too...?

    Nope, the Patriarchs/whatever they're called of the Orthodox churches are primus inter pares , first among equals. The Pope is an absolute monarch.

    lonelyahavaMike DangergjaustinHacksawEdith UpwardsEdith Upwards
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but...

    To be fair, they're not all that upset about the abuse. Which is sad, but it hasn't hit the diocese around here that hard, there were only a few cases and most of the victims weren't actually minors anymore when shenanigans happened. But we have been a dumping ground for those shuffled bishops.

    It's a host of other reasons - gutting of lay ministry programs, openly offensive homilies, closing of historic parishes, silencing of nuns, calling the popular late Bishops Reh and Untener misguided and wayward... Like I said, I could go on for a while.

    It's relevant to the topic of child abuse because it's been handled in the same way - priests and bishops got shuffled around and around to new posts to avoid trouble, and their replacements denied there'd ever been anything wrong to start with. It's not just this, it's a systemic problem in the way the Church handles anything negative.

    Hevach on
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Tarranon wrote: »
    Won't somebody please think of the children...'s molesters.

    I'm glad the good people of Michigan are mad about it, but the murmurs I've heard from my extended family and other catholics here in the south (admittedly the most fanatical body of catholics) is this and every other scandal either didn't happen, didn't happen but was overblown by the media, or "this happens in every organization, the media only picks on catholics because it is the one true faith".

    If people actually think that, that's incredibly sad.

    If any practicing Catholic said that, they are impossibly misinformed as to how other denominations' hierarchies work.

    Basically, none of them work like Catholicism. The CoE/CoS is close, but nothing on that scale.
    I thought Greek Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox were similar, too...?


    At even generous estimates, Greek Orthodoxy account for about 0.5% of all Americans.

    Mike DangerHacksaw
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    A formal petition has been filed to the International Criminal Court accusing several high-ranking members of the Vatican, including outgoing Pope Benedict XVI, of conspiracy to obfuscate crimes of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

    The Centre for Constitutional Rights, a New York-based non-profit legal group, requested an ICC inquiry on behalf of the Survivors Network, arguing that the global church has maintained a “long-standing and pervasive system of sexual violence” despite promises to swiftly oust predators.

    The Vatican said it had no immediate comment on the complaint.

    The complaint names Pope Benedict XVI, partly in his former role as leader of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which in 2001 explicitly gained responsibility for overseeing abuse cases; Cardinal William Levada, who now leads that office; Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state under Pope John Paul II; and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who now holds that post.

    Lawyers for the victims say rape, sexual violence and torture are considered a crime against humanity as described in the international treaty that spells out the court’s mandate. The complaint also accuses Vatican officials of creating policies that perpetuated the damage, constituting an attack against a civilian population.

    Barbara Blaine, president of the US-based Survivors Network of those Abused by priests, said going to the court was a last resort.

    PLAEdith UpwardsPanda4You
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    A formal petition has been filed to the International Criminal Court accusing several high-ranking members of the Vatican, including outgoing Pope Benedict XVI, of conspiracy to obfuscate crimes of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

    The Centre for Constitutional Rights, a New York-based non-profit legal group, requested an ICC inquiry on behalf of the Survivors Network, arguing that the global church has maintained a “long-standing and pervasive system of sexual violence” despite promises to swiftly oust predators.

    The Vatican said it had no immediate comment on the complaint.

    The complaint names Pope Benedict XVI, partly in his former role as leader of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which in 2001 explicitly gained responsibility for overseeing abuse cases; Cardinal William Levada, who now leads that office; Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state under Pope John Paul II; and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who now holds that post.

    Lawyers for the victims say rape, sexual violence and torture are considered a crime against humanity as described in the international treaty that spells out the court’s mandate. The complaint also accuses Vatican officials of creating policies that perpetuated the damage, constituting an attack against a civilian population.

    Barbara Blaine, president of the US-based Survivors Network of those Abused by priests, said going to the court was a last resort.

    Damn. Going straight to the top. I like this.

    Also, it's worth noting that there are, in fact, dioces within the Church that aren't hellholes. Admittedly they all fall under the blanket of the Catholic Church as a whole (and whoo boy is it a very unpleasant blanket), but things are more "let not the right hand know what the left is doing" than one might think at first glance.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    A formal petition has been filed to the International Criminal Court accusing several high-ranking members of the Vatican, including outgoing Pope Benedict XVI, of conspiracy to obfuscate crimes of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

    The Centre for Constitutional Rights, a New York-based non-profit legal group, requested an ICC inquiry on behalf of the Survivors Network, arguing that the global church has maintained a “long-standing and pervasive system of sexual violence” despite promises to swiftly oust predators.

    The Vatican said it had no immediate comment on the complaint.

    The complaint names Pope Benedict XVI, partly in his former role as leader of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which in 2001 explicitly gained responsibility for overseeing abuse cases; Cardinal William Levada, who now leads that office; Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state under Pope John Paul II; and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who now holds that post.

    Lawyers for the victims say rape, sexual violence and torture are considered a crime against humanity as described in the international treaty that spells out the court’s mandate. The complaint also accuses Vatican officials of creating policies that perpetuated the damage, constituting an attack against a civilian population.

    Barbara Blaine, president of the US-based Survivors Network of those Abused by priests, said going to the court was a last resort.

    Damn. Going straight to the top. I like this.

    Also, it's worth noting that there are, in fact, dioces within the Church that aren't hellholes. Admittedly they all fall under the blanket of the Catholic Church as a whole (and whoo boy is it a very unpleasant blanket), but things are more "let not the right hand know what the left is doing" than one might think at first glance.
    If the right hand hasn't figured out what the left has been up to by this point, it's more out of willful denial than any sort of ignorance.

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    A formal petition has been filed to the International Criminal Court accusing several high-ranking members of the Vatican, including outgoing Pope Benedict XVI, of conspiracy to obfuscate crimes of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

    The Centre for Constitutional Rights, a New York-based non-profit legal group, requested an ICC inquiry on behalf of the Survivors Network, arguing that the global church has maintained a “long-standing and pervasive system of sexual violence” despite promises to swiftly oust predators.

    The Vatican said it had no immediate comment on the complaint.

    The complaint names Pope Benedict XVI, partly in his former role as leader of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which in 2001 explicitly gained responsibility for overseeing abuse cases; Cardinal William Levada, who now leads that office; Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of state under Pope John Paul II; and Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, who now holds that post.

    Lawyers for the victims say rape, sexual violence and torture are considered a crime against humanity as described in the international treaty that spells out the court’s mandate. The complaint also accuses Vatican officials of creating policies that perpetuated the damage, constituting an attack against a civilian population.

    Barbara Blaine, president of the US-based Survivors Network of those Abused by priests, said going to the court was a last resort.

    Damn. Going straight to the top. I like this.

    Also, it's worth noting that there are, in fact, dioces within the Church that aren't hellholes. Admittedly they all fall under the blanket of the Catholic Church as a whole (and whoo boy is it a very unpleasant blanket), but things are more "let not the right hand know what the left is doing" than one might think at first glance.
    If the right hand hasn't figured out what the left has been up to by this point, it's more out of willful denial than any sort of ignorance.

    Or the fact that the individual dioces are basically independent unless called to whip by the Vatican. And even then there's cases where dioces politely tell the Vatican to go fuck itself.

    I also fully agree that they should do that way more often than they actually do, though.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Something occurred to me this past week - generally, as heads of a sovereign state, Popes are essentially immune to practically all outside criminal prosecution due to sovereign immunity. Because Popes hold office for life, this usually never goes away. But since Benedict is resigning, does he lose head of state immunity?

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Something occurred to me this past week - generally, as heads of a sovereign state, Popes are essentially immune to practically all outside criminal prosecution due to sovereign immunity. Because Popes hold office for life, this usually never goes away. But since Benedict is resigning, does he lose head of state immunity?

    That...

    Huh. That would be really, really interesting to see. I wouldn't shed any tears if the man's quiet retirement ended up being enforced by law considering his stances.

    UA1OmVB.png
    mcdermottPLAEdith Upwards
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.

    Kana
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.

    Yeah, but somehow I don't think it'd be really good for the already terrible PR the Catholic Church has.

    "Harbors known international criminals!" I think would grab WAY more attention than "Shuffles around terrible bishops within their organization!" It's just on a completely different strata of terrible.

    UA1OmVB.png
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Something occurred to me this past week - generally, as heads of a sovereign state, Popes are essentially immune to practically all outside criminal prosecution due to sovereign immunity. Because Popes hold office for life, this usually never goes away. But since Benedict is resigning, does he lose head of state immunity?

    That...

    Huh. That would be really, really interesting to see. I wouldn't shed any tears if the man's quiet retirement ended up being enforced by law considering his stances.

    I mean, I wouldn't get your hopes up. I'd be very surprised if anyone managed to successfully bring a charge against him, much less get a conviction.

    Still, it's an interesting (possibly unique) situation in modern international law.

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.
    I would hope that a failure to extradite in light of that sort of prosecution would result in at least some form of blowback. It's be nice to see economic sanctions from Italy, but I'm not holding my breath.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.

    Sure, but assuming it did come to that (huge longshot), it would be the difference between "this complaint dies before it gets off the ground, you can't bring criminal charges against a head of state" and "well, he's been proven guilty but we can't nab him - the former head of the Catholic Church is now the equivalent of Roman Polanski (times about a million)".

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.
    I would hope that a failure to extradite in light of that sort of prosecution would result in at least some form of blowback. It's be nice to see economic sanctions from Italy, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Yeah, it would be fairly unrecoverable. It's in the Vatican's interest to give him up if found guilty, but I doubt they ever would. They don't really seem to mind anything about their decades-long struggle with pedophilia beyond the bad PR it gives them.

    Oh, and y'all should really google "Servants of the Paraclete" if you haven't. It's a real thing. A friend of mine lived near it, and is featured in the movie, Mea Maxima Culpa.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    At least around Michigan, the Catholic Church seems to be locking into a death spiral due to this and a few other things.

    Just hemorrhaging members, especially around the Tri-Cities and Flint (Saginaw Diocese membership has been in freefall for over ten years now, by their numbers last year they were down almost 80% from their peak in the late 90's). It's pretty clear why, I could write two pages on it, but people are very vocal about their anger at the Church, and they're being told that they don't know what they're talking about, nothing's wrong, nothing was ever wrong.

    A lot of problems, big and small, even a few of them imagined. But they handle them all the same way, from the most trivial slight to the most serious abuse: Deny there ever was a problem and if things get out of hand shuffle everyone involved off to other parishes or other diocese and hope the problem doesn't follow them.

    And that's the real problem. They could have dealt with most of these, solved the minor ones and at least be going in the right direction to solve the major ones. But instead they're just turning over the cushions and denying there ever was a problem, so every problem the Church has had in almost twenty years is all there, festering, unresolved and just getting worse.
    Basically, the Church behaves just like it always has, and that shit doesn't cut it anymore.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    People don't base their entire existence on McDonalds?

    Spiritually, I mean.

    steam_sig.png
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    People don't base their entire existence on McDonalds?

    Spiritually, I mean.

    I take it you've never been to Texas.

    hoooooooooooo

    PLA
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    Is this why the rat resigned?

    2ezikn6.jpg
  • seabassseabass Doctor MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    People don't base their entire existence on McDonalds?

    Spiritually, I mean.

    That makes it worse, not better.

    Run you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Something occurred to me this past week - generally, as heads of a sovereign state, Popes are essentially immune to practically all outside criminal prosecution due to sovereign immunity. Because Popes hold office for life, this usually never goes away. But since Benedict is resigning, does he lose head of state immunity?

    The crimes he's being accused of, covering for these molesting priests, definitely occurred back before he was Pope.

    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Something occurred to me this past week - generally, as heads of a sovereign state, Popes are essentially immune to practically all outside criminal prosecution due to sovereign immunity. Because Popes hold office for life, this usually never goes away. But since Benedict is resigning, does he lose head of state immunity?

    The crimes he's being accused of, covering for these molesting priests, definitely occurred back before he was Pope.

    Yeah, but that wouldn't matter if he was still Pope. Immunity is immunity, and head of state immunity is about as comprehensive as you can get as long as you hold the office; I'm pretty sure it applies retroactively.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    McDonalds don't have their own powerful country to protect them. Anything the Catholic Church does is connected with the Vatican and no country wants to take them on with this.

  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    McDonalds don't have their own powerful country to protect them. Anything the Catholic Church does is connected with the Vatican and no country wants to take them on with this.

    Not to mention that McDonalds doesn't define part of people's lives. Catholic is an identity for millions of people in the US. It's not really fair to compare the two.

    It also goes a long way to explain why it's so difficult to prosecute these kinds of things. Catholics figure that they are being attacked, and leap to their own defense. They rationalize so that they can keep adhering to the church (although most Catholics I know have little feeling of loyalty to Rome).

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
    Harry Dresden
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    McDonalds don't have their own powerful country to protect them. Anything the Catholic Church does is connected with the Vatican and no country wants to take them on with this.

    Not to mention that McDonalds doesn't define part of people's lives. Catholic is an identity for millions of people in the US. It's not really fair to compare the two.

    It also goes a long way to explain why it's so difficult to prosecute these kinds of things. Catholics figure that they are being attacked, and leap to their own defense. They rationalize so that they can keep adhering to the church (although most Catholics I know have little feeling of loyalty to Rome).

    And that's why Catholics are bad people.

    What is this I don't even.
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    I think part of it is that the Catholic church isn't just the churches, but schools, hospitals and sports activities. I don't know how big it is, maybe somebody in the US can give us an overview, but the point is these people go where the victims are. The Catholic Church allowed these guys access to a lot of victims.

    Recently my local paper did a story on a local school for the deaf. There had been a lot of abuse stories from the 60 onwards to the late 80s. Why? Because deaf kids where isolated and had trouble alerting someone about the abuse. Abusers would volunteer to work at the school and similar places. They would have access to victims while being lauded for their "teaching the underprivileged".

    Priests have that combined with being natural authority figures in the community and according to the church halfway to sainthood.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Mcdonalds coudln't get away with it, but I bet Goldmann could rape children in times square with no real consequence

    Harry Dresden
  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I have to wonder how many cases of child abuse and molestation perpetrated by the executives of any major corporation would have to occur before we shut them down forever and ever.

    Like, could the CEO of McDonald's just keep rotating a nefarious Ronald McDonald around the country to avoid bad PR? I'm doubting it.

    McDonalds don't have their own powerful country to protect them. Anything the Catholic Church does is connected with the Vatican and no country wants to take them on with this.

    Not to mention that McDonalds doesn't define part of people's lives. Catholic is an identity for millions of people in the US. It's not really fair to compare the two.

    It also goes a long way to explain why it's so difficult to prosecute these kinds of things. Catholics figure that they are being attacked, and leap to their own defense. They rationalize so that they can keep adhering to the church (although most Catholics I know have little feeling of loyalty to Rome).

    And that's why Catholics are bad people.

    While I'm not Catholic, I know a bunch of Catholics. None of them are bad people. I figure Catholics have the same spread of good/bad people as most other huge groups of millions of people.

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
    SCREECH OF THE FARG
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I think he meant that supporting the Catholic Church is a bad thing to do, and people who knowingly do it are bad.

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