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[Catholic Cover-Up] A Cardinal, a Monseigneur, and 500 children walk into a bar

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Posts

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    It remains to be seen that Catholics would put the church over America in a war between the Vatican and America, or any other country to my knowledge. It's a valid fear but it hasn't been tested yet and each year the church alienates more members.

  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    It remains to be seen that Catholics would put the church over America in a war between the Vatican and America, or any other country to my knowledge. It's a valid fear but it hasn't been tested yet and each year the church alienates more members.

    There is no way American Catholics would side with the Vatican in a war. This idea is laughable. The most strident, "evangelical style" Catholics are as much about "AMURIKA!!!" as they are about Catholicism. As for the rest of American Catholics, they are fairly individualistic and are not going to sudden start pew-pewing fellow Americans with guns because the Pope tells them to. See also: the amount of Catholics who use birth control without any qualms.

  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    I'm finding the idea that the modern Vatican would even get involved in a war (in the sense Harry Dresden seems to mean) quite laughable. Is that just me?

    Like, in what universe is a Pope in this day and age going to actually get involved in a war in his capacity as head of state?

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    Shadowhopezagdrobshryke
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    yeah, who brought up the idea of the Church or the Vatican as a military power?

    The Crusades are over. The best they can rustle up these days are a couple hundred Swiss guys in silly costumes and some octogenarian Knights of Columbus with little sabers.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.

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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    Darkewolfe
  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    My local diocese (Portsmouth in the UK) is complaining because donations are dropping and members attending mass are in a spiral quickly approaching zero.

    It pains me to says this but if churches are full and the money is rolling in, there is no incentive for the Vatican to reform.

    I told my devout Catholic mother this and she was not impressed.

    YOU'RE ALL BABIES.
    SO MUCH POTENTIAL TO WASTE.
    Koshian wrote: »
    JOKE'S ON YOU
    MY POTENTIAL IS ALREADY WASTED
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    Oh, I know all about that. I meant as a military force, in response to Kal Torak. :P

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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.
    I would hope that a failure to extradite in light of that sort of prosecution would result in at least some form of blowback. It's be nice to see economic sanctions from Italy, but I'm not holding my breath.

    It's the same thing we do every night, Pinky. They're going to make various statements about evil tempters, devils and "but everybody else is doing it" while they continue to bleed members and feel sorry for themselves.
    The behemoth is slow, and the behemoth is dumb.

    Actually, if Ireland can get pissed off, so can Italy. But the Vatican isn't really going to notice. They won't get it until it's over.

    PLA on
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I'm finding the idea that the modern Vatican would even get involved in a war (in the sense Harry Dresden seems to mean) quite laughable. Is that just me?

    Like, in what universe is a Pope in this day and age going to actually get involved in a war in his capacity as head of state?

    They're protected by international law. The Vatican is a legitimate city-state and the Holy See is recognized a sovereign entity in international law. Who knows what the Pope does when the Vatican goes to war? I don't see the Vatican rolling over for America or other nations if they are serious about prosecuting the Catholic Church for their crimes. They must have some political leverage otherwise the Catholic church would have punished severely by governments decades ago.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    So let's say that the ICC actually does rule that the Pope and a bunch of high mucky-mucks in the Vatican should face charges. What can be done if they never leave the VC? Does the ICC have the authority to issue arrest warrants or authorize extradition or is it just a game of waiting for them to set a foot into Italy and then do a snatch and grab?

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So let's say that the ICC actually does rule that the Pope and a bunch of high mucky-mucks in the Vatican should face charges. What can be done if they never leave the VC? Does the ICC have the authority to issue arrest warrants or authorize extradition or is it just a game of waiting for them to set a foot into Italy and then do a snatch and grab?

    Its more that as a criminal organization, the Catholic church would lose its special tax free priviledges in a number of countries, and would most likely also face getting funds seized for restitution for victims.

    Its less about eradicating the Catholic church as an entity, and more about proving wrong doing and enabling punishments of the organization as opposed to the individual members that they have been so busy shuffling around.

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  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    I'm finding the idea that the modern Vatican would even get involved in a war (in the sense Harry Dresden seems to mean) quite laughable. Is that just me?

    Like, in what universe is a Pope in this day and age going to actually get involved in a war in his capacity as head of state?

    They're protected by international law. The Vatican is a legitimate city-state and the Holy See is recognized a sovereign entity in international law. Who knows what the Pope does when the Vatican goes to war? I don't see the Vatican rolling over for America or other nations if they are serious about prosecuting the Catholic Church for their crimes. They must have some political leverage otherwise the Catholic church would have punished severely by governments decades ago.

    We won't ever find out, because the Vatican is not ever going to go to war.

    The Crusades are not happening again, nor is whatever other scenario you're picturing in your head.

    Have you been swapping fluids with Lorc or something?

    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.

    The Vatican's 'sovereignty' only goes as far as Italy's apathy. If the Italian state ever thought their feet would be held to the fire for the RCC's shenanigans, they'd toss Mussolini's specially granted privileges out the window tomorrow.

    Unfortunately, Italy's government officials are a bit too busy getting drunk and speeding around in luxury cars with sex slaves in the passenger seat to pay much attention to the RCC or any bullshit it gets up to.
    They're protected by international law. The Vatican is a legitimate city-state...

    No, they're not. It hasn't been tested yet, but it's pretty laughable that the modern international community would yield to Mussolini's old commandments if push came to shove for whatever reason. Vatican City is not a sovereign state in the mind of anyone aside from the RCC.
    So let's say that the ICC actually does rule that the Pope and a bunch of high mucky-mucks in the Vatican should face charges. What can be done if they never leave the VC? Does the ICC have the authority to issue arrest warrants or authorize extradition or is it just a game of waiting for them to set a foot into Italy and then do a snatch and grab?

    They'd just send in the Italian police and bust them. It's not like Vatican City has security forces to prevent them from doing it. :P

    With Love and Courage
    mcdermott
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    The entire continent of South America would be to differ on the "Vatican is not a sovereign country" claim. As would the Europe, Africa and the US. Its been granted observer status in the UN.

    They all recognize the Vatican. The Vatican has diplomatic relations with every major country in the world apart from China and Saudi Arabia. It doesn't matter that their formal status was recognized by Mussolini, its become a de-facto internationally recognized state. With all the rights and privileges of a state.

    Just because you don't think its a sovereign country, doesn't mean squat in international relations.

    Yeah, Italy can send in a military force and take control of it tomorrow, but it would still be a violation of their sovereignty and a invasion. It would be no more legal than a US invasion of Cuba or Canada.

    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
    SCREECH OF THE FARG
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    You know that this will end up with the United States military stuck in the Vatican forever.

    PLA on
    mcdermott
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    eeehhhh.... The K of C are a little more complex than just a hate group, Than.

    Even in that article you posted, they donated 6.1 million to campaigns trying to block same sex marriage, while many many times more funds went into charitable acts, giving coats to impoverished children in the winter, etc.

    I think it is better to say that the K of C is a generally decent organization with some fucking godawful positions that need to die with their aging membership. And since the Catholic Church isn't really going anywhere any time soon (and neither is the K of C), hopefully the new blood coming in won't be as bad on that issue.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    SCREECH OF THE FARG
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    I can't remember the last time I came across a K of C meeting spot, but then again the South is not terribly Catholic.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    A lot of hate groups also perform acts of charity (for "normal" people anyway).

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    eeehhhh.... The K of C are a little more complex than just a hate group, Than.

    Even in that article you posted, they donated 6.1 million to campaigns trying to block same sex marriage, while many many times more funds went into charitable acts, giving coats to impoverished children in the winter, etc.

    I think it is better to say that the K of C is a generally decent organization with some fucking godawful positions that need to die with their aging membership. And since the Catholic Church isn't really going anywhere any time soon (and neither is the K of C), hopefully the new blood coming in won't be as bad on that issue.
    Their "charitable" activities mostly extend to helping hospitals not give women appropriate treatment, helping adoption agencies discriminate against gay couples, helping to pay the tuition for aspiring demagogues, and delivering hate speech to the developing world.

    Panda4YouPLA
  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2013
    I can't remember the last time I came across a K of C meeting spot, but then again the South is not terribly Catholic.

    Yeah, I think there's like...1 Catholic church in my county.

    We don't talk about it.

    EDIT: I take that back, we do talk about it. My father makes the most gods-awful Catholic puns every time we drive past it.

    "Seem to be a lot of Catholics in attendance today. They're reaching critical mass."

    "Looks like a funeral. Must be a massive undertaking."

    I want to shoot myself every time.

    Gandalf_the_Crazed on
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    mcdermottBullheadPLATofystedeth
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    eeehhhh.... The K of C are a little more complex than just a hate group, Than.

    Even in that article you posted, they donated 6.1 million to campaigns trying to block same sex marriage, while many many times more funds went into charitable acts, giving coats to impoverished children in the winter, etc.

    I think it is better to say that the K of C is a generally decent organization with some fucking godawful positions that need to die with their aging membership. And since the Catholic Church isn't really going anywhere any time soon (and neither is the K of C), hopefully the new blood coming in won't be as bad on that issue.

    The real problem there is there's very little new blood coming in. The Church is likely to only get more extreme because the ones sticking around are diehards.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    eeehhhh.... The K of C are a little more complex than just a hate group, Than.

    Even in that article you posted, they donated 6.1 million to campaigns trying to block same sex marriage, while many many times more funds went into charitable acts, giving coats to impoverished children in the winter, etc.

    I think it is better to say that the K of C is a generally decent organization with some fucking godawful positions that need to die with their aging membership. And since the Catholic Church isn't really going anywhere any time soon (and neither is the K of C), hopefully the new blood coming in won't be as bad on that issue.

    The real problem there is there's very little new blood coming in. The Church is likely to only get more extreme because the ones sticking around are diehards.

    Obviously the solution is more condemnation of condoms and birth control.

  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    The Guy That Would Be (The First Black) Pope just had an interview with Christiane Amanpour where he basically said that it's the various archdioses' fault for continuing to hire all these pedophile and gay priests, and then insinuated that "in Africa, we have ways of eliminating homosexual behavior from the community."


    I can't wait until the Vatican gives this guy a lifetime gig. It's going to be awesome. The Last Pope, indeed.

    Panda4YouPLASmrtnikApothe0sis
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    ...outstanding.

    Apothe0sis
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    I didn't think it was an insinuation, he said it straight up.

    Paraphrasing: "This scandal cannot reach Africa because african communities have traditional ways of dealing with homosexual behaviour and related issues."

    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    They're going to put an openly genocidal madman in the Holy See. I just know it.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    "We've solved the problem of rampant child rape by means of rampant corrective rape and lynchings."

    Honey, I fixed the leaky roof by blowing up the house with a dirty bomb.

    AtomikaSmrtnikApothe0sis
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I think he meant that supporting the Catholic Church is a bad thing to do, and people who knowingly do it are bad.

    Or go out of their way to avoid knowledge of it. So most.

    We've sort of had this conversation to death in several threads. I'm of the opinion, along with some people, that Catholicism is a hate group, more specifically than just "Some elements of Catholicism are bad" because Catholicism is so distinctly, specifically organized to channel funding and political pressure from its members into hate speech and lobbying. Some people refuse to agree with that statement, mostly because on an individual level they're uncomfortable saying that their friends are passive members of a hate group that is also a tax haven for criminal activities.

    What is this I don't even.
    KalTorakPanda4YouPLA
  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Vatican City is sovereign unto itself and does not have to extradite anyone if it does not so wish.

    If Ratzinger stays within the physical bounds of the the Vatican, he's virtually untouchable.

    The Vatican's 'sovereignty' only goes as far as Italy's apathy. If the Italian state ever thought their feet would be held to the fire for the RCC's shenanigans, they'd toss Mussolini's specially granted privileges out the window tomorrow.

    Unfortunately, Italy's government officials are a bit too busy getting drunk and speeding around in luxury cars with sex slaves in the passenger seat to pay much attention to the RCC or any bullshit it gets up to.
    They're protected by international law. The Vatican is a legitimate city-state...

    No, they're not. It hasn't been tested yet, but it's pretty laughable that the modern international community would yield to Mussolini's old commandments if push came to shove for whatever reason. Vatican City is not a sovereign state in the mind of anyone aside from the RCC.
    So let's say that the ICC actually does rule that the Pope and a bunch of high mucky-mucks in the Vatican should face charges. What can be done if they never leave the VC? Does the ICC have the authority to issue arrest warrants or authorize extradition or is it just a game of waiting for them to set a foot into Italy and then do a snatch and grab?

    They'd just send in the Italian police and bust them. It's not like Vatican City has security forces to prevent them from doing it. :P

    The Swiss guard aren't just those guys in renaissance outfits and pikes. They're a small but well trained and well armed military unit. They could seriously impede if not stop dead any intrusion into the Vatican City if push came to shove.

    Of course this will never happen because no one would be stupid enough to let it get that far

    YOU'RE ALL BABIES.
    SO MUCH POTENTIAL TO WASTE.
    Koshian wrote: »
    JOKE'S ON YOU
    MY POTENTIAL IS ALREADY WASTED
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    I also think it would be nice for the Vatican to post a truthful statement of net worth before they ever take another goddamned cent from tithes.


    YOU LIVE IN A CITY MADE OF SOLID GOLD

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I also think it would be nice for the Vatican to post a truthful statement of net worth before they ever take another goddamned cent from tithes.


    YOU LIVE IN A CITY MADE OF SOLID GOLD

    crammed full of priceless works of art

    Maybe they think "priceless" means "not worth anything," like I did when I was 5.

  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    I don't think the Knights of Columbus are anything but yet another "secret" society for old people to have a fish fry fundraiser at once a month.
    They're a hate group. Yet another front for the anti-gay activities of the Catholic Church. Read all about it.

    eeehhhh.... The K of C are a little more complex than just a hate group, Than.

    Even in that article you posted, they donated 6.1 million to campaigns trying to block same sex marriage, while many many times more funds went into charitable acts, giving coats to impoverished children in the winter, etc.

    I think it is better to say that the K of C is a generally decent organization with some fucking godawful positions that need to die with their aging membership. And since the Catholic Church isn't really going anywhere any time soon (and neither is the K of C), hopefully the new blood coming in won't be as bad on that issue.

    The real problem there is there's very little new blood coming in. The Church is likely to only get more extreme because the ones sticking around are diehards.

    Well this seems more like a solution than a problem. Just a slightly slower one.


    Also, as awesome as the Swiss Guards may be, I think any major nation would have little trouble with them.

    Hell, just drone strike the Pope. Boom. Done.

  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    The Guy That Would Be (The First Black) Pope just had an interview with Christiane Amanpour where he basically said that it's the various archdioses' fault for continuing to hire all these pedophile and gay priests, and then insinuated that "in Africa, we have ways of eliminating homosexual behavior from the community."


    I can't wait until the Vatican gives this guy a lifetime gig. It's going to be awesome. The Last Pope, indeed.

    Yeah, I think that the appointment of some one like Peter Turkson is pretty much going to be the end of the Catholic Church in the Western world. They're already at the point where they're talking about the need to re-evangelize traditionally Catholic areas like France or Portugal. The people who are non-practicing cradle Catholics (like me), or even the nominal Christmas and Easter types, aren't going to be tripping over themselves to re-engage with a Church that's more alien to our lived reality, more conservative, and more medieval in its outlook. The more traditional and conservative types comes in two varieties: the old and the crazy. The old ones are dying off and the crazy ones could well flip their shit over an African pope. If the Church becomes, effectively, an institution of the Third World, I don't see it undertaking any resurgence in the West any time soon.



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    AtomikaEdith UpwardsLadyM
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    The best part is the assumption that homosexuals are pedophiles.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    If all else fails, blame the gay agenda. And then suggest torturing / killing the gay people, I guess.


    How far does it have to fucking go before people draw the line, I wonder?

    With Love and Courage
    PLA
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    If all else fails, blame the gay agenda.

    If we let the gays win, what happens then? They turn all of us straights queer with their gayser-beams?

    Stupid gays forcing me to take righteous offense to their very existence.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    If all else fails, blame the gay agenda.

    If we let the gays win, what happens then? They turn all of us straights queer with their gayser-beams?

    Gazerbeam.jpg:?:

    Atomika
  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    Then we're already too late . . . .

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I also think it would be nice for the Vatican to post a truthful statement of net worth before they ever take another goddamned cent from tithes.


    YOU LIVE IN A CITY MADE OF SOLID GOLD

    crammed full of priceless works of art

    Maybe they think "priceless" means "not worth anything," like I did when I was 5.

    Apparently there is no difference between the two in Russian, which is why it's hard to argue for the preservation of historically or scientifically important locations when a corporation wants to bulldoze it.

    wpyz0Y5.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
    Edith Upwards
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