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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    I have the game and had it since last year when I debated about playing it.

    I'm currently running as a Preferred player having never subbed and doing basically that. I keep waiting for the "something" that is going to get me to stop playing but haven't found it yet. Story stuff is fun, haven't run into anything too grindy. Worse I can say is that some stuff is just never explained, like some of the secondary stat names they use.

  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    Secondary stats are explained in a roundabout way, if you hover over the stats on the lower part of your character panel, it'll tell you how much of say, your Bonus Damage is coming from Main Stat and how much from Power. Or how much of your Critical Chance comes from Crit Rating and how much from talents, etc.

    Probably the most annoying parts of being Preferred for me, were the credit cap (350k) and being unable to send Whispers, only reply to them. It made grouping up for heroics kind of a hassle. Of course now that I'm re-subbed and can use the Group Finder I never want to go back; that thing is fantastic.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    When you say have the game do you mean bought or just downloaded after F2P?

    I bought it last year and sat on it because I did not have a computer of my own and did not have the time to play soon after {picked up a second job and kept it for longer than I hoped]
    I debated about playing it when I got my computer but I was too busy and the holiday season kicked my ass.

  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    Well, if you haven't activated it yet, you get a free month of subscribed status.

    Zdy0pmg.jpg
    Steam ID: Good Life
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Well I installed it and I am now patching so I will go about the other parts when I wake up later

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Secondary stats are explained in a roundabout way, if you hover over the stats on the lower part of your character panel, it'll tell you how much of say, your Bonus Damage is coming from Main Stat and how much from Power. Or how much of your Critical Chance comes from Crit Rating and how much from talents, etc.

    Probably the most annoying parts of being Preferred for me, were the credit cap (350k) and being unable to send Whispers, only reply to them. It made grouping up for heroics kind of a hassle. Of course now that I'm re-subbed and can use the Group Finder I never want to go back; that thing is fantastic.

    I've figured most of them out though some are just so weirdly named. "Surge"? Yeah, sure thing, that's way more obvious than "Crit Damage" or whatever.

    Cambiata
  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    The GF is 'fantastic' in the sense you'll actually get flashpoints that just flat out wouldn't happen before (like, say, Cad) even on 'full' servers like mine has been. They're at a part of the leveling curve where you're already past them by the time you bother. It is NOT 'fantastic' in the quality of those groups. There are ones I'd rather have a bunch of bots. There are ones I could swear they ARE a bunch of bots (nobody talks the entire run, though those usually go well since it's people farming for gear and know every mob group like the back of their hand, unless you get some ninja asshole).

    I can see the purpose of the GF, and I actually use it a lot, but it's not something I really like about the game. It's like doing BT social runs. It's there, it is definetely rewarding, but it's not really a 'fun' thing to do. It's just something you DO.



    Edit: And these problems are hardly unique to TOR. It's the same issue a GF has in every MMO that has them. Which is why you had a ton of pushback when they were first considering them. Ironically, by the time they put them in anyways, all the people that were screaming for a GF had gone back to WoW. It really is a feature you need to launch with or find an alternative.

    Astale on
    Alistair wrote: »
    I use Dog as a cover for when I put dead animals in Morrigan's underthings
  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Maybe I just have a tolerance for pugs, but the vast majority of GF runs I've done, both at cap and while leveling alts have gone pretty smoothly. Sure, I might roll my eyes at the dumb things people do, but it rarely ever gets to the point where I can't take it anymore. I've only ever quit out of one group (it was that Ilum run I was bitching about in the last thread with the War Hero geared Vanguard who had never tanked any PVE content) and rarely put the most blatantly derptastic people on ignore (like the entire group in Kaon who insisted on following me around right on my heels while I was trying to stealth-mez everything). There have been only a couple of times where we've wiped more than once on anything, and it's usually story mode Soa where you gotta expect that TBH.

    Sure, I'm spoiled by guild runs of HM Lost Island where nobody ever dies. But even at their worst, maybe 2% of the time, Group Finder pugs are at least good for blowing off steam through a stream of profanity in guild or voice chat. I've learned to never say, "Just when I thought I'd seen everything" anymore because: yup, there is always somebody dumber out there lurking in the queue.

    Since the GF came out I run probably five to ten times more flashpoints than before, and I never ran story mode ops without it. I enjoy that group content enough, even with the occasional morons that pop up, that I'm willing to risk their presence since the alternative is guild/allies-only runs that would happen far less often. Plus 5 Black Hole comms a day is a really nice carrot.

    DivideByZero on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    Just brainstorming, what would even work as an alternative to the GF? I'm not thrilled with it, but as I said I still use it a ton, because the alternative right now is bugging guildies or shouting in gen chat. Both of which are, at the least, time consuming.

    CoX's system seemed to work quite well, but you could also just get everyone to do any mission in the area together, most didn't care which, since they weren't exactly a grand variation being all door missions.
    So I don't really see that working too well in other games.

    Alistair wrote: »
    I use Dog as a cover for when I put dead animals in Morrigan's underthings
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Being the operation's off-tank is one of the most boring jobs. And then the tank drops or something else weird happens, and you're expected to fix things or it's all your fault.

    I feel almost as useless as a Marauder, which is funny, because they keep taking the gear I would need to become main tank.

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    There's nothing really wrong with the group finder they have now. Most players are derps but, you know, that's players.

    My problem is mostly just with the design of their instances, which enables all sorts of stupid chicanery and creates conflicts between people who just want their comms for the day and the ones who actually need gear or just enjoy killing things for its own sake.

    They should just have every 'boss' drop a BH commendation rather than a daily commendation. It's never been entirely clear to me why they had daily commendations in the first place.

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    Cambiata
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    So my Operative Medic got put into a group as damage! Boy was I confused.

    While everything went fairly well and the fact that I could dump a bunch of healing really helped a couple times but.....what was I supposed to be doing?

    Mostly I targeted anybody messing with the healer first, then tried to pile on damage to whatever the tank was primarily on. If the healer or the tank got low on health I'd break off and start dumping kolto into them.

    I also suspect from the amount of things I had decide I was more interesting than the tank that the tank wasn't generating much threat. *shrug*

  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Being the operation's off-tank is one of the most boring jobs. And then the tank drops or something else weird happens, and you're expected to fix things or it's all your fault.

    I feel almost as useless as a Marauder, which is funny, because they keep taking the gear I would need to become main tank.

    What is an off-tank? I thought I was melee dps, but after my last heroic I was told I was fail at my job of off-tank.

    Zdy0pmg.jpg
    Steam ID: Good Life
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    RE: Groupfinder, I love it. Its super convenient when leveling since it allows me to quest/do story missions while waiting to find a group for an instance. That doesnt really sound like much, but I leveled 2 or 3 characters to 50 before the groupfinder and I was only able to do instances on one of them (and that was always with friends).
    So my Operative Medic got put into a group as damage! Boy was I confused.

    While everything went fairly well and the fact that I could dump a bunch of healing really helped a couple times but.....what was I supposed to be doing?

    Mostly I targeted anybody messing with the healer first, then tried to pile on damage to whatever the tank was primarily on. If the healer or the tank got low on health I'd break off and start dumping kolto into them.

    I also suspect from the amount of things I had decide I was more interesting than the tank that the tank wasn't generating much threat. *shrug*

    Yeah, its kind of annoying that the groupfinder doesnt always remember your role selection, on my powertech I have to keep toggling off tank since Im not tank specd and I have no tank gear.
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Being the operation's off-tank is one of the most boring jobs. And then the tank drops or something else weird happens, and you're expected to fix things or it's all your fault.

    I feel almost as useless as a Marauder, which is funny, because they keep taking the gear I would need to become main tank.

    What is an off-tank? I thought I was melee dps, but after my last heroic I was told I was fail at my job of off-tank.

    Off-tanks are backup tanks, theyre really only needed for raids. Basically you have the main tank whos going to be doing most of the work and then you have the secondary back up tank that will during boss fights taunt off the main tank should the fight call for it or tank the other boss if there are multiple bosses in the fight. If you were doing a flashpoint and not an operation/raid I have no idea what they were complaining about since those only require one tank (and sometimes not even that).



    Also, super nice to see this thread is back!

  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Well some Flashpoints and Heroics have pulls with more than one gold, and if nobody has any stuns, you'll need to tank one and off-tank the other. Probably what happened, and they didn't bother to explain it first.

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  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Well some Flashpoints and Heroics have pulls with more than one gold, and if nobody has any stuns, you'll need to tank one and off-tank the other. Probably what happened, and they didn't bother to explain it first.

    The tank should definitely be able to tank 2 golds. I can only think of a couple of rough pulls but having an off tank there wouldnt help, or at least be of any more help than having the dps take out the normals/silvers while the tank tanks the golds.

  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    Ok, so I think he had the wrong terminology. I was playing with a head cold and got focused on the boss and didn't notice the adds. But still, the ranged dps should have been able to handle them.

    Zdy0pmg.jpg
    Steam ID: Good Life
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Yeah, off-tanks usually handle adds, too. If needed.

    Good tanks should be able to handle the boss/golds and adds, sure. Lots of groups have bad tanks or bad healers, though...

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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Yeah, off-tanks usually handle adds, too. If needed.

    Good tanks should be able to handle the boss/golds and adds, sure. Lots of groups have bad tanks or bad healers, though...

    I'm probably one of the bad tanks. :) I get a little too focused on a target at times and end up forgetting to keep an eye on everyone's health-meters. Or sometimes worse, end up being unable to keep the enemy's attention due to all the DPS hitting him.

  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Owenashi wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Yeah, off-tanks usually handle adds, too. If needed.

    Good tanks should be able to handle the boss/golds and adds, sure. Lots of groups have bad tanks or bad healers, though...

    I'm probably one of the bad tanks. :) I get a little too focused on a target at times and end up forgetting to keep an eye on everyone's health-meters. Or sometimes worse, end up being unable to keep the enemy's attention due to all the DPS hitting him.

    I usually have trouble holding aggro with large groups too, especially in Foundry since so many of the groups are spread out over wide areas so its hard for me as a jug tank to get everyone. Flashpoint bosses are fine, but I have serious trouble with raid bosses, probably due to my lack of gear (all 61 mods and enhancements, but rakata hilt and armoring) while the dps almost always have 146+ weapons although Im sure my rotation doesnt help; I notice that I use the basic attack that generates 1 rage kind of a lot (I use sunder, basic attack, smash/scream/sundering assault, repeat until dead with sunder/basic attack worked in between each high threat move).


    Also, does anyone know if cyborg implants will fuck with the way bounty hunter gear looks? Im thinking of giving my bounty hunter HK at level 1 but I dont want to see stuff clipping should I decide to wear a helmet. Checked on the few helmets they have on the cartel market and it doesnt appear as though it does.

    emp123 on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    the cyborg "race" details are just textures laid over the character's skin, so they don't interfere with the display of helmets or such. There are a few non-helmet pieces that create weird looks as a result of this (cyborg implants poking out of your dancers' crown, wearing a visor over your cyborg visor, etc)

    and yeah, in a FP there's no reason to have two tanks. You don't really need to worry about tanking the weak/normal mobs either; just get a few hits on the strongs and elites and keep them on you and let the DPS kill the rest.

    there are a lot of bad tanks that think their job is just to like, attack one mob and forget about all the rest. I dunno if these people are playing with the camera right behind their character's head or what.

    The other ridiculous thing that every tank does for some reason is guard the healer. It doesn't work the same was as it does in pvp, guys

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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I usually put Guard on the healer to give them the best chance of staying alive. Then if I see someone pulling aggro constantly, I put it on them. Nobody has complained or suggested otherwise so far.

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited January 2013
    Unless something is going really weird, I always Guard either a melee DPS or the best-geared ranged DPS in a flashpoint. All healers have (or should have, if they're not some silly DPS trying to heal with a DPS spec) passive threat reduction through their talents alongside threat dump abilities; DPS have to actively use threat-dumping abilities, which some classes (hi Vanguards/Powertechs) don't even have. They always benefit more from Guard than a healer.

    With rare exception, I always guard a melee DPS in operations.

    korodullin on
    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    mostly it's just that guarding the healer is pointless. I don't usually even bring it up during runs because it doesn't really matter, but it's pointless. The threat reduction is irrelevant for healers and they will almost certainly take less incidental damage than any melee (or let's be honest, than most ranged dps.)

    but any time you actually tell somebody that all you get back is "you always guard the healer duhhhhh" and that's when I know the tank doesn't really understand game mechanics

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  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    Yeah, Guard on a healer is never not a waste. Healing threat starts out at base 50% of damage threat, with additional 15-25% talented threat reduction, and finally it's divided up among every mob in the pull. So if you drop a heal for 5,000 at the start of a pull with 8 mobs, you've only put like 234 threat on each mob. That's about 1/4 of the basic attack of a DPS class or tank.

    The only way a healer gets aggro is if nobody has tapped the mob yet, in which case Guard is not going to help them anyway. I default to guarding the best-geared DPS, prioritizing melee, and preferably a Vanguard/Powertech since they're the only DPS class with no threat dump skill.

    If you're having trouble holding aggro in ops (and assuming you're Guarding the DPS that tends to pull, and that they're using their threat dump on cooldown), try working taunts into your rotation. Unless the fight requires you to save them for tank swaps or aggro resets, you can use them on cooldown to boost your threat by 30% at a time, every 15 seconds. There's no way a DPS can keep up with that over the length of an ops boss fight.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • kmzkmz Registered User regular
    Did a pug HMLI the other day with a tank that didn't guard _anybody_ the entire time, and he even mentioned at one point how I was pulling threat so much. ("You're in tank stance, aren't you? I never have anybody pull off of me so much.") Finally asked for a guard on Lorrick and at he obliged, at least.

  • EchildaEchilda Registered User regular
    Sounds like a pug I was in the other day. And to be honest about 1 in 5 of the rest of them.

  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    What's the threat reduction skill for maras? I know jugs get a lose threat and get healed when hit thing but I don't remember getting that on my mara.

  • kafzielkafziel Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    emp123 wrote: »
    What's the threat reduction skill for maras? I know jugs get a lose threat and get healed when hit thing but I don't remember getting that on my mara.

    Force Camouflage. Powerful defensive cooldown, big movement boost, threat reduction, and stealth, all for 0 Rage. Enraged Defense was a slap in the face.

    kafziel on
  • emp123emp123 Registered User regular
    Oh right, forgot about that thing.

  • EchildaEchilda Registered User regular
    Just did Kaon Under Siege HM in a PUG. I used to think I was an OK to good healer. Not anymore...

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    so I was watching the blur trailers again because, I dunno, I like weeping for the terrible job the PT did with lightsaber combat, and I realized that we really missed out on the opportunity for an amusing satele shan/derpyhoof crossover.

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    so I was watching the blur trailers again because, I dunno, I like weeping for the terrible job the PT did with lightsaber combat, and I realized that we really missed out on the opportunity for an amusing satele shan/derpyhoof crossover.

    Do I even dare ask?

    ZvOMJnu.png
    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited January 2013
    seriously, just watch 'return' and pay attention to her eyes

    it's ridiculous

    plus her hair/outfit is the right color

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    I rewatched that and had 2 main thoughts: Lightsabers shouldn't trip people, it should hobble them, and that must have be the crappiest grenade ever.

    Zdy0pmg.jpg
    Steam ID: Good Life
  • kafzielkafziel Registered User regular
    I rewatched that and had 2 main thoughts: Lightsabers shouldn't trip people, it should hobble them, and that must have be the crappiest grenade ever.

    Every visual depiction of lightsabers - movies, games, cartoon, etc - has depicted them as being essentially swords that are very sharp in every direction but still physical objects that have to be swung with force to cut through things. This idea that a lightsaber is a tube-shaped Sphere of Annihilation is very prevalent in the EU despite making no sense and being contradicted at every turn.

  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    Also cortosis and stealth generators are in full production during this time period, the former which vastly reduces the effectiveness lightsabers.

    (no, I don't know if there is any 'explanation' as to why it's different, but it was in the original kotor too, same reason; being able to one shot everything would rapidly become stupid).

    Alistair wrote: »
    I use Dog as a cover for when I put dead animals in Morrigan's underthings
  • DarcsteelDarcsteel Wildcard NC United StatesRegistered User regular
    usually run a mara but started building a jug. I've tanked a few FPs and I'm getting teh feel for Jugg tanking (not that different from my T-pally in wow). just got sweep (the multi hit saber attack at 33). I saw the earlier posts and I was wondering if I need to move this into my rotations or is smash enough to carry the day (I dont know if Smash is the parallel to a Guardians Sweep or not).

  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    It's fine for tanking two or three guys, as long as you've already used Smash and maybe landed a hit on them. Or if they're just normal or silver.

    Crushing Blow holds their attention better, but I've noticed it has a far smaller area of effect than Sweeping Strikes.

    If you take some of the Smash talents later, the cooldown will be lower and it will have some other bonuses, making it a high priority to use.

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  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    I think Smash is a bit more cost effective then Sweep, especially when it comes to threat-generating thanks to talents. The tanking tree has another armor-sunderer as it's top unlock which spreads to other nearby targets if you have a full sunder stack on the original target, easy to do with a talent-boosted Smash which can drop four stacks on someone already and Sundering Assault for the fifth application.

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