"It re-establishes franchise in a huge way," an individual close to Warner Bros. said to TheWrap about the Superman reboot. "If it does well, Warner Bros. can do Justice League including Superman, Superman vs. Batman and another Superman. It opens up at least three different fronts of potential sequels with great synergy for the company in theme parks, licensing and all that."
...
That includes kicking the tires on films for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Warner Bros.' plan would be to release two "Man of Steel" films before moving on to the "Justice League," a project everyone at Warner Bros. unofficially acknowledges is being developed.
Then it could move on to the other characters. Warner Bros. declined to comment about its plans.
Marvel needs to up their game if they're going to get a Captain Marvel movie out before Wonder Woman.
Please. There's so many ways Justice League could fuck up Wonder Woman's movie from getting off the ground. Danvers has little to worry about. They still haven't learnt why setting up all the key players with solo movies before launching their team movie was a major component to Avengers success.
+1
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I really want Marvel to take a breath after GotG, which I feel more uneasy about every week. I still don't know if SHIELD is going to really stick because that's nearly 15 more hours of superheroics in a year, it just feels like the house of cards is about to fall. Can't really put my finger on anything specific, just feels like something's out there, and it's not an ominous purple dude with a multi-butt chin smiling.
A Flash movie is something I would aim for before WW or Aquaman, and I can think of a great way to do it and make even Barry be the most upbeat of DC film characters.
I really want Marvel to take a breath after GotG, which I feel more uneasy about every week. I still don't know if SHIELD is going to really stick because that's nearly 15 more hours of superheroics in a year, it just feels like the house of cards is about to fall. Can't really put my finger on anything specific, just feels like something's out there, and it's not an ominous purple dude with a multi-butt chin smiling.
Marvel will stumble, it's unavoidable. I don't think SHIELD will play any role in that unless it's a spectacular failure - which isn't going to happen since Joss Whedon is keeping it under his protection. That said, Loeb is bound to fuck up the tv division somehow. The issue will be how much a disaster will it will take before he's replaced. Guardians is the riskiest movie to date but I applaud Marvel's balls for going through with it and Ant-man. It's better to strive for greatness rather than stagnate in mediocrity.
A Flash movie is something I would aim for before WW or Aquaman, and I can think of a great way to do it and make even Barry be the most upbeat of DC film characters.
I was actually surprised to see that MoS is at 60% at RT considering all I had heard was positive buzz.
I'm not. Zack Snyder is truly atrocious.
Be thankful it's not Michael Bay. It could be a lot worse.
I actually think that a Michael Bay directed Superman movie would not be the worst thing.
You'd be wrong. Whatever you think Snyder's worst faults are Bay would exaggerate them and increase the racism and terrible frat boy humor. He hasn't got shit on Snyder for special effects or action.
It’s not for me. It had some very nice moments, several I wish I’d written (and at least three I did, I’m proud to say–there was lots of BIRTHRIGHT in it), but I can’t imagine wanting to watch it again anytime soon. YMMV. It’s a good science-fiction movie, but it’s very cold. It’s not a very satisfying super-hero movie. That said, if your favorite part of SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE was Superman standing in the Fortress while Jor-El lectured him, you’re gonna love MAN OF STEEL.
Having just got back from MoS, gotta respectfully disagree with Waid about the movie being "cold". There were many legitimately moving and heroic moments I thought, helped immensely by the score. Oh man that score was so, so amazing.
Having just got back from MoS, gotta respectfully disagree with Waid about the movie being "cold". There were many legitimately moving and heroic moments I thought, helped immensely by the score. Oh man that score was so, so amazing.
Awesome! Glad to hear they kept the John Williams in there. Nothing says "Hope" to me like the Superman theme.
I'm just gonna drop in here and say that MoS was a really, really fun movie. Well acted, with great action. The villain was villainous without being cartoony or twirling his mustache. It really felt like I was watching a Superman who wants to be super, instead of just being magically super and making everything alright all the time.
Really-real for-real spoiler:
Yeah, a lot of people died. And Superman did in fact snap Zod's neck.
Tough shit. Seriously, get over it.
He didn't want to. Within the context of the movie, Zod has just murdered, yeah, probably a couple million people out of what he considered necessity, and was about to kill a few more just out of spite. Unfortunately, the movie didn't allow for a moment where Superman could throw Zod back into the phantom zone at this point. And, actually, there were very few macguffins available to help us avoid Superman killing Zod. Certainly no cellophane S-Symbols left over from the golden age of Donner's films, FFS.
Yeah, basically, the movie didn't take place in a desert in the middle of nowhere.
I'm so frustrated with the oncoming nerd rage for this movie.
It was fun, it had Superman doing super things and trying to be a super guy. Hell, it even did a great job of showing Jor-El being kinda super as well.
Yeah, a lot of people died. And Superman did in fact snap Zod's neck.
Tough shit. Seriously, get over it.
He didn't want to. Within the context of the movie, Zod has just murdered, yeah, probably a couple million people out of what he considered necessity, and was about to kill a few more just out of spite. Unfortunately, the movie didn't allow for a moment where Superman could throw Zod back into the phantom zone at this point. And, actually, there were very few macguffins available to help us avoid Superman killing Zod. Certainly no cellophane S-Symbols left over from the golden age of Donner's films, FFS.
No, we don't have to 'get over it'.
I'm not the biggest Superman fan, and I'm generally okay with the movies making changes to a character. But this thing completely changes one of the most important facets of Superman-- one of the thing that makes him stand out.
To me, it stands out as a moment for the writer/director/DC to say, 'See, this ain't your daddy's Superman!'. And those type of moments NEVER work, usually because they're not earned.
I really wanted to see this movie, and probably will at some point, but that little change has completely soured me on it.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Wonder how this will play for DC. It might get an extra audience just because of that change to things.
Though I'd hate for it to set a precedent where DC decides they need to do it in every movie they do...
0
FakefauxCóiste BodharDriving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered Userregular
If I were walking into a Superman movie with no foreknowledge of the film, and you asked me what things I would not, under any circumstances, want to see in this movie... Well, the thing that got Mark Waid so upset would be right at the top of the list.
I like to think I'm generally pretty open minded about different interpretations of characters, and the truth is Superman has done that thing, both in the comics and even the cartoons. Yet to start off your new Superman franchise like that, to have that be part of introducing a new generation to the character? It's just such a negative and depressing note to begin things with.
I had some high hopes for this movie, but this (among some other things) means I probably won't see it in theaters.
This reeks of the same 90s-era dark & gritty BS attitude that has defined DC for the last decade. The end sounds like the 100 Minute War that ended the New Krypton storyline before the DCnU, which itself was just ... I don't know. I don't know how people can write those kinds of stories, and this is coming from a cyberpunk genre author (I've been discussing the necessity of hope in that genre, which is a key element that so many people overlook. Without it the genre just fails under the weight of its own cynicism and nihilism).
It's no skin off my ass because there are Superman stories that exist which I like and can go back and read. And they'll always tell the story I like and want to believe are the best for the character. It's like trying to discuss how I can like those stories and why Superman can be a compelling character to people who will never be willing to suspend their impressions of him as a "bad" character; it's just not worth worrying about.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to see it, and it doesn't mean I have to enjoy what it is.
Saw it at midnight. It's definitely a Zack Snyder film. It's not an awful movie, but that dude should seriously stick to trailers or direct music videos or something.
Just look at the real estate he gives to the fight sequences compared to character moments. I'm glad there was more action, but they didn't all have to feel so long and story-less. There's a way to tell a story within the actions of a brawl. This was all BOOM BOOM BLAAOOW BOOM until it didn't mean anything. And the fact that it all resulted in being The Greatest Disaster Mankind Has Ever Seen with little to no care given to what that means to the story, just the spectacle of seeing skyscrapers fall, I should have known that was coming. That's exactly what Zack Snyder would do with a Superman movie.
The neck-snap wasn't a dealbreaker for me, but I agree with Waid, they have to really earn it. It can't just be a "them or me!" moment at the end of a world-ending brawl, the story has to build up and be about the different sides of lethal force, and what it means coming from an invincible flying man that wants to be our friend.
I'm interested in a sequel though, hopefully from different people. I think Zod's death can be redeemed if it means something to the character from here on out, if the pitch is, "What does it mean if in Superman's debut and one moment of weakness he uses lethal force?" If there's a story after that, if that's what stirs up Lex Luthor and creates a worthwhile story, there's still a great movie to be made.
No Mark Waid is being a tad too sensitive on the issue.
Us comic fans are highly resilient to change, we can't even go down kicking and screaming, we'll just stick around kicking and screaming endlessly until it gets changed back. It has to be one of the worse aspects of being a comic fan, we want new things and things that are different we say yet when they happen we reject it with a furor that ensures things continue on their continued path more or less as the readership stays what it is or shrinks.
Publishers having been catering to comic fans so much that they buckle on everything usually, if something doesn't go our way we throw a hissy fit and make a large racket about it. And a lot of writers and artist are the same way, they're usually fans now who grew up with a hero or have certain memories of them. When they get a job they want it the way it was only better or greater. So they try, see just about anything Geoff Johns does for that.
Most people know who Batman is, Superman is, Wonder Woman etc. They can tell you the basics of the character, a lot of the time not much else. DC has had Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman all remain the status quo for a very long time and when it was said and done.......a lot of people really didn't give a damn. Superman is boring they say. No one can do Wonder Woman right, it's impossible they say. Okay Batman might get a pass usually but he's a bit luckier in that.
A lot of people got it in their heads heroes never kill or do anything bad but really, that's just one more viewpoint of the ideal hero and if you want to make things a bit more realistic, especially to get a bigger audience it's not always going to work. Look at Marvel, these days most of their heroes got little problem in killing if they have to do so, there really isn't too much grief being given about it amazingly. But Wonder Woman snaps a neck? People loses their minds, they even got to do some issues later about her being on trial for it and various things are tossed in to either justify it or deal with the issue. It gets absurd. It's like asking a cop never to kill someone because they're suppose to serve and protect. It's a nice thought but sadly the world doesn't work that way and comics really can't survive forever on ideals from earlier generations forever. Things change. People change. Times change. Having to put down someone when they're too much of a menace or threat especially if they've killed many is just a part of that. If they maintain who they are at their core they are still true to the character, some times doing what is right is always the hardest. That you got to do things that others can't do because they're unable or it's simply too much to ask of them.
And yes your going to always have people be against death because they simply don't believe it's never worth it or justified.
I for one am usually glad they're not in charge of things because some times, it's necessary. Doesn't make it good but to ensure peace if not the lives of many some times it's got to happen.
And no I had no plans to originally say that much, sorry for the amount of text!
OK after some reflection I don't think MoS will hold up for me, kinda like First Class. The issues I ignored on initial viewing are starting to come back pretty fierce but I might see it a second time in theaters just to be sure.
I think I'll be more inclined to try it out now that I don't have to sit in a Facebook window.
My thoughts, as written elsewhere and crossposted here:
I picked this up as well. Ye gods, I'd forgotten just how weak you start out as, and despite having added everyone I could from my FB, Game Centre and some 'randoms', nobody seems to be gifting much yet, so with no SHIELD points coming in, buying weapons and levelling heroes is going to be highly limited for a while.
Got frustrated with nobody answering my bloody request for jet staffing, so I blew 2 gold to get the second jet going so I could start mission 3. Have hit a crippling bug in Mission 4 where every time I try to load the battle it either hangs or crashes the game. Game crashes otherwise are not uncommon, but I've made it to level 5 and it's basically more of the same. PVP should be interesting; wallet warriors will presumably have a massive advantage, but without the ... ahh... notorious items already out there, it'd be interesting to see how it plays. Yes, Scrolls, I'm looking at you.
The UI is okay, but it's a bit obnoxious to have the character portrait overlapping the life bar of the third character.
It's even more obnoxious to not have the class artwork showing on each character at all times, particularly for the enemies. Not a big deal yet, but I imagine having to constantly click them to check status effects and even classes will get old rapidly.
It seems there isn't any form of research in the game (armour, weapons and gear just become available when you hit a sufficiently high enough level), and 'collecting from allies' is a lot more straightforward, which is something I actually like.
Edit: oh yeah, and they seem to be using the 'old' combat rules.
Thus far it's interesting, but the bugs might kill my interest until I see an update. I'm only level 155 (just started earlier this year) on FB, but I've put enough time, effort and yes cash into the FB game that I'm not willing to dedicate all that and more to keep up on both versions.
That all aside, I'm at 9 lockboxes left and 7/8 covers, which feels obnoxious. I kind of want to blow one gold on the 10th and just get it out of the way that the last turn in won't contain the final cover. Statistically it just won't. I was up to like 110 cp and 25'ish gold at the end of the season and then I spent most of it on another hero. I'm on the final mission of the Spec Ops, but it'll take a couple of days to build up enough iso again to play through to the epic boss for completion.
Can I just say it's getting REALLY hard not to click on these spoilers? :P
I hear that. I have tickets to see it in 45 minutes and as I scrolled through the thread I was suddenly hit with how close I came to spoiling stuff literally minutes before showtime. As in, I'm leaving work in 20 minutes to head to the theatre.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Siegel and Shuster's Superman have not been Superman for a while
And actually if you read their Superman, he's not like Moses or the Golem. That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it's come about as a result of modern Superman portrayals casting their own light over Golden Age Supes. Back then, he was a Socialist Activist, a hard-working, hard-fighting man of the people, a labourer battling for his fellow working men and women.
There really isn't a religious element in the text when it comes to early Superman. But that does develop later on, as he grows more Godlike, we see him in a modern Godlike respect, i.e. as a messianic saviour figure from Judeo-Christian myth. It's why Superman expies are so fun, you can take that role in so many directions, because our culture has traditionally really been quite interested in that kind of figure, someone without peer, an example of ideology.
Really, the reason that All-Star Superman is such a success is that it takes all the different ages of Superman and combines them into the form of a platonic Superman ideal, an ur-character that can only come about from a medium such as superhero comics, where one character can have a thousand portrayals by a thousand writers over the years. And I am sure that is what he intended, as well.
Posts
Please. There's so many ways Justice League could fuck up Wonder Woman's movie from getting off the ground. Danvers has little to worry about. They still haven't learnt why setting up all the key players with solo movies before launching their team movie was a major component to Avengers success.
A Flash movie is something I would aim for before WW or Aquaman, and I can think of a great way to do it and make even Barry be the most upbeat of DC film characters.
Marvel will stumble, it's unavoidable. I don't think SHIELD will play any role in that unless it's a spectacular failure - which isn't going to happen since Joss Whedon is keeping it under his protection. That said, Loeb is bound to fuck up the tv division somehow. The issue will be how much a disaster will it will take before he's replaced. Guardians is the riskiest movie to date but I applaud Marvel's balls for going through with it and Ant-man. It's better to strive for greatness rather than stagnate in mediocrity.
Agreed.
I'm not. Zack Snyder is truly atrocious.
Be thankful it's not Michael Bay. It could be a lot worse.
I actually think that a Michael Bay directed Superman movie would not be the worst thing.
You'd be wrong. Whatever you think Snyder's worst faults are Bay would exaggerate them and increase the racism and terrible frat boy humor. He hasn't got shit on Snyder for special effects or action.
Steam
I'm pretty sure people said the exact same thing when it was announced Bay would be directing Transformers.
Yeah, I thought the skill he showed with the Bad Boys car chases would transfer well.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
please explain
superman snaps zod's neck and kills him
Mark Waid went to a 7PM screening of Man of Steel.
i thought waid was was stoked at the prospects of the movie.
Then he cracked up.
Hahahahah, cracked. Get it.
...........................
I'll be over there................
"@Laremy @jamesmeiers And that's conservative."
The non-spoiler portion:
Steam
That is so fucked up.
I don't think I have the words for the contempt I am feeling towards DC right now.
I do. Most of them only have four letters. And all of them are near enough an exclamation point to get the energy up.
Why I fear the ocean.
Awesome! Glad to hear they kept the John Williams in there. Nothing says "Hope" to me like the Superman theme.
...
Right?
Really-real for-real spoiler:
Tough shit. Seriously, get over it.
He didn't want to. Within the context of the movie, Zod has just murdered, yeah, probably a couple million people out of what he considered necessity, and was about to kill a few more just out of spite. Unfortunately, the movie didn't allow for a moment where Superman could throw Zod back into the phantom zone at this point. And, actually, there were very few macguffins available to help us avoid Superman killing Zod. Certainly no cellophane S-Symbols left over from the golden age of Donner's films, FFS.
Yeah, basically, the movie didn't take place in a desert in the middle of nowhere.
I'm so frustrated with the oncoming nerd rage for this movie.
It was fun, it had Superman doing super things and trying to be a super guy. Hell, it even did a great job of showing Jor-El being kinda super as well.
Not dismissing other peoples feelings and concerns because you don't share them.
No, we don't have to 'get over it'.
I'm not the biggest Superman fan, and I'm generally okay with the movies making changes to a character. But this thing completely changes one of the most important facets of Superman-- one of the thing that makes him stand out.
To me, it stands out as a moment for the writer/director/DC to say, 'See, this ain't your daddy's Superman!'. And those type of moments NEVER work, usually because they're not earned.
I really wanted to see this movie, and probably will at some point, but that little change has completely soured me on it.
Though I'd hate for it to set a precedent where DC decides they need to do it in every movie they do...
I like to think I'm generally pretty open minded about different interpretations of characters, and the truth is Superman has done that thing, both in the comics and even the cartoons. Yet to start off your new Superman franchise like that, to have that be part of introducing a new generation to the character? It's just such a negative and depressing note to begin things with.
I had some high hopes for this movie, but this (among some other things) means I probably won't see it in theaters.
It's no skin off my ass because there are Superman stories that exist which I like and can go back and read. And they'll always tell the story I like and want to believe are the best for the character. It's like trying to discuss how I can like those stories and why Superman can be a compelling character to people who will never be willing to suspend their impressions of him as a "bad" character; it's just not worth worrying about.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to see it, and it doesn't mean I have to enjoy what it is.
The neck-snap wasn't a dealbreaker for me, but I agree with Waid, they have to really earn it. It can't just be a "them or me!" moment at the end of a world-ending brawl, the story has to build up and be about the different sides of lethal force, and what it means coming from an invincible flying man that wants to be our friend.
I'm interested in a sequel though, hopefully from different people. I think Zod's death can be redeemed if it means something to the character from here on out, if the pitch is, "What does it mean if in Superman's debut and one moment of weakness he uses lethal force?" If there's a story after that, if that's what stirs up Lex Luthor and creates a worthwhile story, there's still a great movie to be made.
Mark Waid is being a crybaby.
Us comic fans are highly resilient to change, we can't even go down kicking and screaming, we'll just stick around kicking and screaming endlessly until it gets changed back. It has to be one of the worse aspects of being a comic fan, we want new things and things that are different we say yet when they happen we reject it with a furor that ensures things continue on their continued path more or less as the readership stays what it is or shrinks.
Publishers having been catering to comic fans so much that they buckle on everything usually, if something doesn't go our way we throw a hissy fit and make a large racket about it. And a lot of writers and artist are the same way, they're usually fans now who grew up with a hero or have certain memories of them. When they get a job they want it the way it was only better or greater. So they try, see just about anything Geoff Johns does for that.
Most people know who Batman is, Superman is, Wonder Woman etc. They can tell you the basics of the character, a lot of the time not much else. DC has had Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman all remain the status quo for a very long time and when it was said and done.......a lot of people really didn't give a damn. Superman is boring they say. No one can do Wonder Woman right, it's impossible they say. Okay Batman might get a pass usually but he's a bit luckier in that.
A lot of people got it in their heads heroes never kill or do anything bad but really, that's just one more viewpoint of the ideal hero and if you want to make things a bit more realistic, especially to get a bigger audience it's not always going to work. Look at Marvel, these days most of their heroes got little problem in killing if they have to do so, there really isn't too much grief being given about it amazingly. But Wonder Woman snaps a neck? People loses their minds, they even got to do some issues later about her being on trial for it and various things are tossed in to either justify it or deal with the issue. It gets absurd. It's like asking a cop never to kill someone because they're suppose to serve and protect. It's a nice thought but sadly the world doesn't work that way and comics really can't survive forever on ideals from earlier generations forever. Things change. People change. Times change. Having to put down someone when they're too much of a menace or threat especially if they've killed many is just a part of that. If they maintain who they are at their core they are still true to the character, some times doing what is right is always the hardest. That you got to do things that others can't do because they're unable or it's simply too much to ask of them.
And yes your going to always have people be against death because they simply don't believe it's never worth it or justified.
I for one am usually glad they're not in charge of things because some times, it's necessary. Doesn't make it good but to ensure peace if not the lives of many some times it's got to happen.
And no I had no plans to originally say that much, sorry for the amount of text!
he is messianic but that doesn't mean he has to be Jesus
he is, in effect, a Godlike paragon of virtue and self-control here to guide us all to a better world
Apollonian and yet curiously modern
My thoughts, as written elsewhere and crossposted here:
I picked this up as well. Ye gods, I'd forgotten just how weak you start out as, and despite having added everyone I could from my FB, Game Centre and some 'randoms', nobody seems to be gifting much yet, so with no SHIELD points coming in, buying weapons and levelling heroes is going to be highly limited for a while.
Got frustrated with nobody answering my bloody request for jet staffing, so I blew 2 gold to get the second jet going so I could start mission 3. Have hit a crippling bug in Mission 4 where every time I try to load the battle it either hangs or crashes the game. Game crashes otherwise are not uncommon, but I've made it to level 5 and it's basically more of the same. PVP should be interesting; wallet warriors will presumably have a massive advantage, but without the ... ahh... notorious items already out there, it'd be interesting to see how it plays. Yes, Scrolls, I'm looking at you.
The UI is okay, but it's a bit obnoxious to have the character portrait overlapping the life bar of the third character.
It's even more obnoxious to not have the class artwork showing on each character at all times, particularly for the enemies. Not a big deal yet, but I imagine having to constantly click them to check status effects and even classes will get old rapidly.
It seems there isn't any form of research in the game (armour, weapons and gear just become available when you hit a sufficiently high enough level), and 'collecting from allies' is a lot more straightforward, which is something I actually like.
Edit: oh yeah, and they seem to be using the 'old' combat rules.
Thus far it's interesting, but the bugs might kill my interest until I see an update. I'm only level 155 (just started earlier this year) on FB, but I've put enough time, effort and yes cash into the FB game that I'm not willing to dedicate all that and more to keep up on both versions.
That all aside, I'm at 9 lockboxes left and 7/8 covers, which feels obnoxious. I kind of want to blow one gold on the 10th and just get it out of the way that the last turn in won't contain the final cover. Statistically it just won't. I was up to like 110 cp and 25'ish gold at the end of the season and then I spent most of it on another hero. I'm on the final mission of the Spec Ops, but it'll take a couple of days to build up enough iso again to play through to the epic boss for completion.
I hear that. I have tickets to see it in 45 minutes and as I scrolled through the thread I was suddenly hit with how close I came to spoiling stuff literally minutes before showtime. As in, I'm leaving work in 20 minutes to head to the theatre.
I'm saying when you look at Siegel and Shuster's influences, Superman is a really interesting combination of Moses and the Golem
I mean, when you say "here to guide us all to a better world", that's Moses' mission statement right there
and then you add the Golem's strength, indestructibility, and role as defender of the people
And actually if you read their Superman, he's not like Moses or the Golem. That's an interesting interpretation, but I think it's come about as a result of modern Superman portrayals casting their own light over Golden Age Supes. Back then, he was a Socialist Activist, a hard-working, hard-fighting man of the people, a labourer battling for his fellow working men and women.
There really isn't a religious element in the text when it comes to early Superman. But that does develop later on, as he grows more Godlike, we see him in a modern Godlike respect, i.e. as a messianic saviour figure from Judeo-Christian myth. It's why Superman expies are so fun, you can take that role in so many directions, because our culture has traditionally really been quite interested in that kind of figure, someone without peer, an example of ideology.
Really, the reason that All-Star Superman is such a success is that it takes all the different ages of Superman and combines them into the form of a platonic Superman ideal, an ur-character that can only come about from a medium such as superhero comics, where one character can have a thousand portrayals by a thousand writers over the years. And I am sure that is what he intended, as well.
Wonder Woman fits that description, as well. And unlike Superman she really is a golem.