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Look, up in the forums! It's [Superman]!

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  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    So who is reading what still?

    And where do you guys currently stand on Unchained? I've only read the first one so far, but I thought it was... not good.

    Also, new teams on Superboy and Supergirl from 26 forward. Supergirl is going to be dealing with new Lobo (urgh), but Tony Bedard is the new writer, and he does really well with the cosmic stuff. And Bleeding Cool is saying that a Superman weekly is in the pipes for March, and was originally supposed to launch next month with Pak and Landis, which actually would've been pretty rad.

    We know JRjr is supposed to be doing a Superman project next year, as well.

    How do you think the books will shake out? It'd make the most sense for Lobdell to leave Superman, and JRjr to take over, but I feel like that won't happen. I'm also wondering if Pak will be leaving Action once the weekly starts, with Aaron Kuder taking over the writing in addition to penciling.

    Unchained is doing gangbusters sales wise, but everything about that book besides Supes himself is a little too down for me. I was wondering if maybe Snyder would leave after the first arc (because let's be honest that Lee probably will), and it'd become a book for rotating AAA creative teams, but I'm wondering now if it'll just be Snyder + AAA artists.

    I read the first two Unchained before everything going on at DC just got to be too much for me to ignore just for the sake of Superman comics. They were...Ok. Not terrible, but not really inspired? I thought Batman/Superman was much better, but I only read the first issue. I LOVE Pak though and if anything is going to get me to return to DC land from my prolonged vacation over in the Marvel U, it'll be him. Is he on Action yet? I'm getting horribly out of date.

    I was never into Superboy in the New 52 and I read like the first arc of Supergirl and lost track of it. It was a gorgeous comic and the writing wasn't too bad either, but I just didn't click with the seemingly icy and aloof Kara of the New 52, ya know? I get why her character is like that, it's just not very fun to read about.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    i'm still reading all of the super-titles and enjoying them. in my opinion, things are not nearly as dark and hopeless as everyone makes them out to be. this superman isn't perfect (but there aren't nearly as many overt examples of him being not-perfect or anywhere close to an anti-hero that some people suggest) but it's also pretty clear that the writers are creating a Superman who is still learning how to be Superman. we're supposed to be going on a journey with him. up to you if you think they're pulling that off.

    i don't dislike Unchained, but i find it far more boring that Lobdell's Superman. i find Lee's art to be more boring than normal coupled with a story that so far hasn't had much to say. Batman/Superman has gotten better from its first confusing issue and I'm looking forward to Pak on Action and even more so to Kuder's art. I'm even looking forward to Superman/Wonder Woman because Soule is killing it on Red Lanterns and I think he'll do well here too.

  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Rans wrote: »
    i'm still reading all of the super-titles and enjoying them. in my opinion, things are not nearly as dark and hopeless as everyone makes them out to be. this superman isn't perfect (but there aren't nearly as many overt examples of him being not-perfect or anywhere close to an anti-hero that some people suggest) but it's also pretty clear that the writers are creating a Superman who is still learning how to be Superman. we're supposed to be going on a journey with him. up to you if you think they're pulling that off.

    I'd agree with this. By an large, my problems with DC are not Superman related. There have been some speed bumps along the way, but overall I've been kind of Ok with what's been done with Superman. Haveing a more hands-on Superman has been kind of exciting. For the first time in ages, I'm not always sure what Superman is going to do and that is kind of exciting. Where is the line with Nu Superman? How far can you push him before he gets tired of your shit and takes you out? I wish they actually pushed the angle of social outrage harder in his comics. Because if there was ever a time in recent history where people would respond well to someone who is both a true hero and pissed off and not going to take it anymore, it would be now. You see hints of it in Morrison's first few issues of Action, but it changed to something closer to more typical Superman fare awful fast. I've always wondered if that was Grant's original intention or not.

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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    edited September 2013
    Yeah it's so weird how Morrison just couldn't stop himself from going bananas instead of sticking to the "Superman of the people" concept haha.

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  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Given what we know now, I can't help but wonder if it was due to editorial preassure to make his superman line up more with something that felt like what the rest of the company was doing with him. It's really too bad. I loved the feeling of the first fourish issues way more than what came after and I was stoked for the Superman Grant described in interviews prior to the start of the New 52. He sounded rad. Although I've liked what we got fine, I feel like we got robbed of something that might have been truly groundbreaking.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    As I understand it, Morrison was originally only going to do the intro arc with Brainiac but then later decided to continue and do the big Vyndktvx mega-arc. I'd say it is likely that Morrison is the one that abandoned the Superman of the people concept in favor of the typical Morrison fare that followed.

  • glithertglithert Registered User regular
    I'm still reading every supertitle. Action is meh, superman is rad (barring supes' and lois' relationship), unchained is good, bat/supes is good, supergirl is alright, and superboy is fucking awful.

    Actually really looking forward to the crazy time travel story whenever lobdell gets around to it and pak on action. He hasn't already quit, has he? I'm a little behind.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Rans wrote: »
    As I understand it, Morrison was originally only going to do the intro arc with Brainiac but then later decided to continue and do the big Vyndktvx mega-arc. I'd say it is likely that Morrison is the one that abandoned the Superman of the people concept in favor of the typical Morrison fare that followed.

    THe first two or three issues are littered with reference and build-up and I'm pretty sure there were never plans to stop after Brainiac but instead he intended for his whole story to take fewer issues so decided to stay on for more.

    I don't think its accurate to say he abandoned anything. Right from the beginning he's building to the end. "Man of the people" Superman was just a means to an end. Whats a shame is that the next guy decided not to bridge the gap and just wrote normal Superman.

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  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    I feel like that early version of Superman has potential for stories people could always come back to, like people did with Year One period stories with Batman in the last universe. I mean, Pak is using early Superman in Batman/Superman, so maybe it isn't too late.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    Action #25 will be another flashback to that time period. Takes place before #1 and during Zero Year.

  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Boss. I'm all over that.

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  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2013
    I reread Action Comics the other night, up to around the point where Brainiac miniaturizes the city. I'm really disappointed that Morrison clearly went through and researched (or I guess maybe made up?) all of the names of different parts of Metropolis but never did anything with them. I wish Gotham and Metropolis had a bit more local character sometimes beyond "this is the place where Superman/Batman fights crime"

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  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    The Cataclysm event had some pretty detailed maps of Gotham. I kind of like that Gotham is kept amorphous though because that way it can just be this big brooding thing that artists and writers can reinterpret how they see fit. That makes it a lot more armospheric.

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  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    I think there were detailed maps of Gotham through a lot of the 90s, which were then constantly updated during No Man's Land about what gang controlled what area and such.

    Then after it got rebuilt as New Gotham I don't think they released any more maps for it, but I'm not sure.

  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    A map's not quite what I mean, though...like if I say "Brooklyn" or "Manhattan" you instantly have an idea of what the neighborhood is like because we know what the different parts of New York are like. When there's "St. Martin's Bay" or whatever in Metropolis, that doesn't really mean much to me. I think it's mentioned at one point that Clark lives in "Hob's Gap" or something which sounds like it could be the Metropolis version of Brooklyn, but that's about as detailed as it gets.

    I don't really need to know that you take two lefts and a right leaving Wayne Tower to get to the Sprang Building, I'd just like it if these places weren't just monolithic "badcrimegargoyle city" and "shiny-slightly-futuristic city"

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  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    I think Metropolis actually does have 5-6 boroughs or whatever that roughly correspond like that. The only one that I can instantly recall is Suicide Slums, which is basically "Metropolis: Gotham Edition."

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Metropolis has Bakerline, Hob's Bay, New Troy, Park Ridge, Queensland Park, and Suicide Slum

  • AmiguAmigu Registered User regular
    I would have liked to see the inauguration ceremony for "Suicide Slums"

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    "Southside, known better by it's occupants as Suicide Slum"

    eldnQFc.png

    Amigu
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    I'm sure 'where ogres live' seemed really clever to that tagger at the time.

    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Look, it was just when Shrek 2 came out, alright?

    He was trying to bring in tourism.

  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Well, it's a little clever.

    Offhand, I think Gotham City might work better with, at least, a loose framework of burroughs or quarters or whatever. Like we know what's considered, say, Gotham's east end, as opposed to its north. And cities certainly do change, especially one like Gotham with its numerous disasters, arsons, and whatever else might take down a building or bridge or whatever. That doesn't mean that ever single block needs to be defined. You can always add stuff in or rename things. Gotham's emphasis is a lot more on the street level, the police force making the rounds, all that. It's a very hands-on place.

    I'm not as versed in Metropolis, but it feels like more of the idea of a place than Gotham. I know of the Daily Planet, and, I'm assuming, the Lexcorp building or whatever, but mainly, I see a shiny, tall city with a generous art deco aptitude, some well-tended public parks, and a lively sort of Madison Avenue midtown area where things are always busy and people generally don't worry about much. Superman's the world citizen, or whatever. He's always off doing something, so it's not as necessarily core to his doings as Gotham often is to Batman. All the same, I get the feeling that Metropolis is not nearly as ridden with urban decay, corruption, or social disorder as Gotham, and it's likely no small part that Superman is out preventing lots of accidents, deaths, and fires that would otherwise harm some and benefit others.

    I suppose when you can fly faster than a speeding bullet, it's not as critical where you are and where you need to be.

  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Also, as we're talking about local color in metropolis and stuff, at least in the last universe, a nickname for Metropolis was "The Big Apricot" which is rediculous of course, but also kind of fun. This stuff exists already, it's just that current writers are doing jack all with it. That was one of the better things about the immediate post-crisis Superman. The writers worked hard to make Metropolis and it's citizenry more of a character in Superman's stories. That's how we got people like Bibbo, Captain Maggie Sawyer and fleshed out Dan Turpin. Of course where are those characters now? Retconned or in Bat-family comics.

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  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    Don't forget Professor Hamilton who--

    ...actually never mind. You should forget what happened to Hamilton. Everyone should.

  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Don't forget Professor Hamilton who--

    ...actually never mind. You should forget what happened to Hamilton. Everyone should.

    Hamilton is kind of an odd duck of a character especially at the beginning and the end of his time in the comics. Kind of funny that he made it into Man of Steel.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    metropolis was really interesting during the B13 upgrade from the Loeb/Kelly era. lots of neat details about how the future city worked that remained pretty consistent across the titles. so far new 52 Metropolis hasn't been given any character and doesn't seem all that special.

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Rans wrote: »
    so far the new 52 hasn't been given any character and doesn't seem all that special.

    Munch
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    I'm kind of tired of DC calling their stuff The New 52. Why not just DC52 or something like that?

  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    "Brand Recognition"?

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    It occurs to me that the New 52 model of throwing out way too many titles, with a lot of cancel and launch churn, may be a crappy way of running a comics line, but it is an excellent way of market researching Warner Bros. DC corporate IP to see what's valuable. As in, Didio saved DC by turning into from a comics company to a pure IP farm.

  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    That would just annoy me more because that means that Static and Blue Beetle are not valuable IPs based on New 52.

    Even though Static nearly won the Injustice DLC poll (was just behind Zatanna who was in first) and Blue Beetle was apparently the most popular toy from the Brave & the Bold cartoon's toyline (indicating he was catching on with young viewers).

    Which brings me to another annoying tangent: DC needs to get their characters into other media, like Brave & the Bold was doing for characters like Blue Beetle until they cancelled it.

    I mean, look at Gambit. In the comics he's practically a nobody and has a lot of shitty stories. But he's popular. Know why? Because he was in the damn cartoon.

    Even just focusing on Batman, without other media Mr. Freeze would be a random nobody and Harley Quinn wouldn't exist but now they're considered staples of Batman's rogues gallery. Heck, without other media the Barbara Gordon Batgirl wouldn't exist.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    So the villain's month Lex Luthor book was pretty good. Very excited for Soule's Superman/Wonder Woman now because I think he has a great grasp of Lex. This Lex is pretty different from the old Lex. More ruthless and willing to get his hands dirty.

    But now I really have no idea when Superman Unchained takes place. Lex Luthor #1 shows Lex
    being released from the Hypermax prison we saw him in during the H'el on Earth arc and the following arc in Supergirl. He still has his scars but his scars are repaired by plastic surgeons in this issue. Superman Unchained has Lex still in prison but being transferred to a new prison. Superman Unchained also has him without scars. We also never got a great answer on where the scars came from. Lobdell implied that Superman was connected to it and Superman knew it and was maybe ashamed of it. Diggle's arc was supposed to address this but never did after it went so severely off the rails. The Bizarro #1 issue kind of implies that the first aborted Bizarro clone may have been responsible, but it's hard to tell.

    The only way it works is if Superman Unchained happens after Forever Evil and Lex goes back to jail.

    i don't know

  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    That would just annoy me more because that means that Static and Blue Beetle are not valuable IPs based on New 52.

    Even though Static nearly won the Injustice DLC poll (was just behind Zatanna who was in first) and Blue Beetle was apparently the most popular toy from the Brave & the Bold cartoon's toyline (indicating he was catching on with young viewers).

    Which brings me to another annoying tangent: DC needs to get their characters into other media, like Brave & the Bold was doing for characters like Blue Beetle until they cancelled it.

    I mean, look at Gambit. In the comics he's practically a nobody and has a lot of shitty stories. But he's popular. Know why? Because he was in the damn cartoon.

    Even just focusing on Batman, without other media Mr. Freeze would be a random nobody and Harley Quinn wouldn't exist but now they're considered staples of Batman's rogues gallery. Heck, without other media the Barbara Gordon Batgirl wouldn't exist.

    That would be why there were Static and Blue Beetle comics at all.

    Their other market popularity made WB question whether there was any future in them as titles. Run the comics as testbeds for new stories. :S

  • glithertglithert Registered User regular
    After reading the Luthor issue I want a Luthor ongoing written by Soule

    Lex Luthor is probably my favorite villain in any medium

  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Blue Beetle seems like such a huge lost opportunity. HIs first series was fantastic, and here was a hispanic teenage character who didn't seem forced.

    I want to say DC sucks for not pushing him, but he did appear in Smallville, Brave and the Bold, and was pretty much the main character in Young Justice. Dunno what more could have been done (apart from not relaunching him with a horrible comic)

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  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    The new 52 killed BB for me. :(

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Blue Beetle tested better than Batman with kids on Batman's own damn show.

    He was described by one of the creators on BatB as "Iron Man mixed with Spider-Man". Which is the most easily bankable concept this side of Batman Beyond. (Spider-Man mixed with Batman)

    DC could be making so much money off of Jaime but nope

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  • Oniros25Oniros25 Registered User regular
    Was going to post this in general DC, but I'd just as soon not clutter up that thread with my blithering on about Superman.

    Finally got around to reading Action #25.
    It's Ok. Now, Ok is a big improvement over what we've gotten lately, but it's still just Ok. I really liked the intro bit and I did like the fact that Clark was becoming aware that no matter how well intentioned he is in the Superman Year One era, he's being a bit of a bully. Him laughing at the crying thug seemed kind of out of character even for young brash Clark, though. The idea of him running off to try and go punch out a storm was pretty entertaining and was a great, "Show, don't tell" way of refuting the old, "Superman is boring because he has no limitations" thing. The art's not so hot in my opinion. Lana's looking awfully mannish in some of the panels of this comic is all I'm going to say.

    Haven't gotten to Batman/Superman #5, but 1-4 were super cool so I'll most assuredly be picking it up. Hopefully the next story arc will be just as delightfully comicbooky as the first. Gettin' real tired of my comics trying to take themselves too seriously and miss the days where colored heroes were the home of imagination run rampant.

    Unchained is one of those comics that I was incredibly stoked for, but I haven't read an issue since #1. Snyder's not really writing to his strengths. Even at the risk of people crying one-trick pony at him, I'd love it if he explored Metropolis as a character the way he has with Gotham in the Batman titles. A sense of history is something he does really well. Inner monologues are something he handles fairly well. Dialog and characterization I don't feel are his strong suits, though. That and, "There's a badder, even more powerful version of Superman and you just know our Superman is going to have to fight him..." is kind of a boring A plot in my opinion. Maybe there's more to it than that, but from a distance, what I've seen isn't greatly attractive.

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Oniros25 wrote: »
    The art's not so hot in my opinion. Lana's looking awfully mannish in some of the panels of this comic is all I'm going to say.

    Fun fact: not all women look the same

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  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Keith wrote: »
    Oniros25 wrote: »
    The art's not so hot in my opinion. Lana's looking awfully mannish in some of the panels of this comic is all I'm going to say.

    Fun fact: not all women look the same

    Yeah, I actually love hardcore engineer Lana.

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