Talking about the touch pad got me thinking: what will the PS4 add that truly couldn't be done with the PS3?
Better processor, video card and RAM make myriad things possible that weren't before.
But we've been through this several times in the industry thread. People like you refuse to acknowledge that with greater power come bigger, better games (GTA on PSone -> GTA3 on PS3), so there's no point in talking with you about it because you refuse to listen.
...well, that's certainly constructive.
It's not just me asking this question. There's a reason this generation has stretched on for so long, Nintendo keeps adding crazy new control things, and Microsoft keeps pushing ahead with Kinect even though it's cooling off. Plus the ginormous war over whether the PS3/360 was more powerful and how it would limit games didn't amount to a hill of beans.
The reason this gen has stretched on for so long is because Microsoft and Sony are trying to milk every damn nickle out of the current hardware before going on the very expensive route of making new hardware. It aint got nothing to do with your ill-conceived, brainless and delusional ideas that better hardware can't be used to make games even better than what we currently have.
Well there's the touchpad for one. Then there's the aforementioned D Gaikai streaming tech they could use for their psn store. It'll likely be used for demos, save the user from having to spend gotta downloading the things. The visa is another thing that's going to enhance the new console. Remote play with the ps 3 is but is optional. If they pay for it in the next console then it would be a huge kick against Nintendo.
Talking about the touch pad got me thinking: what will the PS4 add that truly couldn't be done with the PS3?
Better processor, video card and RAM make myriad things possible that weren't before.
But we've been through this several times in the industry thread. People like you refuse to acknowledge that with greater power come bigger, better games (GTA on PSone -> GTA3 on PS3), so there's no point in talking with you about it because you refuse to listen.
...well, that's certainly constructive.
It's not just me asking this question. There's a reason this generation has stretched on for so long, Nintendo keeps adding crazy new control things, and Microsoft keeps pushing ahead with Kinect even though it's cooling off. Plus the ginormous war over whether the PS3/360 was more powerful and how it would limit games didn't amount to a hill of beans.
The reason this gen has stretched on for so long is because Microsoft and Sony are trying to milk every damn nickle out of the current hardware before going on the very expensive route of making new hardware. It aint got nothing to do with your ill-conceived, brainless and delusional ideas that better hardware can't be used to make games even better than what we currently have.
Look. 1) I didn't actually say "Hardware can't be used to make games even better than what we currently have." I'm just saying because of diminished returns it's not the only thing console makers can rely on, and the way the industry is going supports that (if they're just trying to drain all the money they can, why didn't he previous gen stretch on like it did)?
And 2) If you can't talk about this without getting angry and throwing out random personal attacks I'm not going to engage you on this.
If the PS4 has a Vita-like touch screen to go 'sup WiiU i'd be in. If it's a touch-pad similar to the Vita's rear touch pad then.... eh', not sure how I feel about it. More options are always good, but that's not as exciting. The Vita and WiiU prove you can do a lot of things right with the combination of button and touch controls though (but touch mechanics can also be shoehorned in and frustrating when done badly). I just hope that the L and R sticks are slightly farther apart.
As for the news, this thing here is pretty interesting:
A new Share button on the controller will, when pressed, launch a new feature that will allow screenshots and video to be distributed online. The PS4 hardware will continually record the most recent 15 minutes of onscreen action (with no processing penalty, claims our source), which users will then be able to edit and broadcast via the Internet.
Remote play with the ps 3 is but is optional. If they pay for it in the next console then it would be a huge kick against Nintendo.
I also hope they make remote play a mandatory feature for PS4 games instead of a optional thing for PS3 games. Hacked PS3's show that 95%+ of games are capable of being remote played to a Vita easily, but most developers don't tick that check-box.
Talking about the touch pad got me thinking: what will the PS4 add that truly couldn't be done with the PS3?
Better processor, video card and RAM make myriad things possible that weren't before. Example: GTA on PSone -> GTA3 on PS2.
But we've been through this several times in the industry thread. People like you refuse to acknowledge that with greater power come bigger, better games, so there's no point in talking with you about it because you refuse to listen.
You hit a point of diminishing returns with that stuff though. Stuff like Shadow Of The Colossus on the PS2 still looks better than some of the middle year PS3 games, because while cutting edge graphics always look great at the time, they don't stand up as long as stylized graphics. Like Dishonored has a weird painterly style about it that's gonna look the same 10 years from now, but I'm betting Metal Gear Rising sure won't be as impressive then.
Ed dang got caught up in freezy glitch town too long. :I
Talking about the touch pad got me thinking: what will the PS4 add that truly couldn't be done with the PS3? That seems to be the big question this generation, as we're reaching severely diminished returns from horsepower and loads of new stuff kept being patched in the PS3. That's the main reason Nintendo tried the whole tablet thing.
Talk of new stuff being patched into the PS3 isn't particularly realistic given how limited its OS is, which is why the in-game XMB is so slow and why we never got cross game chat. So from an OS point of view, there's an absolute ton of stuff that they could add. Just look at the myriad of features the Vita has that the PS3 completely lacks: Multi-tasking, cross game chat, proper custom soundtracks, parties, friend activity logs and so on.
From a development side of things, the more standard hardware will be a huge improvement, as there'll no longer be any need to optimise code for the Cell. And the RAM will be another huge benefit, especially for technically inept studios like Bethesda.
And in terms of the games themselves, there are obvious improvements that could be made. Can you argue that there's diminished returns? Sure, but people said that heading into this gen and it was proved absolutely ridiculous. Just taking a look at current PC games shows huge improvements over the 360/PS3/WiiU and the standardised hardware of the PS4/720 should be able to deliver even better results. Given how fucking amazing GoW: Ascension looks on the PS3's outdated hardware, I can't fucking wait to see what Sony Santa Monica, in particular, can get out of the new hardware.
Well there's the touchpad for one. Then there's the aforementioned D Gaikai streaming tech they could use for their psn store. It'll likely be used for demos, save the user from having to spend gotta downloading the things. The visa is another thing that's going to enhance the new console. Remote play with the ps 3 is but is optional. If they pay for it in the next console then it would be a huge kick against Nintendo.
Don't forget backwards compatibility. As much as I'd like them to sneak a Cell into the PS4 and emulate the RSX, given us complete PS3 BC, doing it via Gaikai might be a better option.
The landscape for future Playstation exclusives looks... interesting. The Last Guardian never materialised, neither did FF13 Versus. Valkyria Chronicles was demoted to a PSP title, then a Japan only one. Some of the leading minds behind Thatgamecompany moved on to new pastures. Infamous and Resistance don't look to be getting new entries, and Uncharted 3 has its detractors. I feel like Sony's first party studios are going to have their work cut out for them next generation, as the PC has become my platform of choice whenever possible.
Could they pull it off over Gaikai though that's the big question. People still don't have super speedy Internet so it's basically anyone's guess if they go for it. I hope they do. No idea how they'd handle games you have on disk though.
The one thing on that topic that always gets me is when companies like Ubisoft and EA make dumb statements like "lack of new hardware kills creativity."
It isn't Sony or Microsoft's fault that publishers tend to favor sequels to new ideas. The movie industry is in exactly the same boat. All of the biggest blockbuster movies are all sequels and remakes.
If the "big three" were really interested in new ideas and creating new IPs, they'd give the money to the studios right now to let them make those games.
And in terms of the games themselves, there are obvious improvements that could be made. Can you argue that there's diminished returns? Sure, but people said that heading into this gen and it was proved absolutely ridiculous. Just taking a look at current PC games shows huge improvements over the 360/PS3/WiiU and the standardised hardware of the PS4/720 should be able to deliver even better results. Given how fucking amazing GoW: Ascension looks on the PS3's outdated hardware, I can't fucking wait to see what Sony Santa Monica, in particular, can get out of the new hardware.
Oh sure, but Sony's still got to get the attention of people who aren't graphics whores like us. People like my relatives who think that Resident Evil 4 on the Wii looks just about as good as your average 360/PS3 game. People who have gotten used to playing Facebook and smartphone games. Not to pile on, but the main strategy for the Vita was "it's super-powerful!" but the system didn't catch on with the general public.
I just get the feeling that this generation will be the generation of the crazy gimmick in order to get people's attention, and I'm wondering what Sony's will be.
cloudeagle on
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
They should of dial in the Kinetic.
Seriously, imagine a Steel Battalion kinetic game that actually freaking works!
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I keep forgetting to follow that account, damn that's awesome.
Anyway, I'm not so excited for this announcement because "oh man the next Playstation." I'm excited because I want to see what Sony's concept of what should come next is. Also, rumors can die or be confirmed.
The only thing I'll say as outlook is that if any component or system of the "Orbis" involves proprietary technology, Sony will have sounded their own death knell. Before I get shit on for blindly shitting on Sony, let me just point out that the Vita's memory sticks are expensive as all hell and it has been unattractive to a lot of people. Also that the PSP's UMD film format fell on its ass. Also Sony's 3DTV department has fallen on its ass. Also, the Blu-Ray fiasco for the PS3 drove the cost up astronomically and put the industry (and motion picture industry) in a dumb format war. I still maintain that Sony was lucky to have won that - just imagine what it would've looked like if they lost that battle.
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
I'd also like for them to build a faster network and require less updating (I don't own one, but I keep hearing gripes about updating on the Vita).
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
I'd also like for them to build a faster network and require less updating (I don't own one, but I keep hearing gripes about updating on the Vita).
That's a trap that MS can fall into as well. But I'll leave Microsoft out of this since this is about Sony.
Future-proofing would be a terrible, terrible idea. Because of costs, that is.
The landscape for future Playstation exclusives looks... interesting. The Last Guardian never materialised, neither did FF13 Versus. Valkyria Chronicles was demoted to a PSP title, then a Japan only one. Some of the leading minds behind Thatgamecompany moved on to new pastures. Infamous and Resistance don't look to be getting new entries, and Uncharted 3 has its detractors. I feel like Sony's first party studios are going to have their work cut out for them next generation, as the PC has become my platform of choice whenever possible.
Well, the PS3 first party series were mostly completely different than the PS2 first party series, even if a lot of the developers were the same. I'm honestly expecting new franchises and IPs again this time around for the PS4 again with a small few continuing ones.
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
The $250 Vita is a good price for the tech that blows the 3DS out of the water, as much as I wish it was $200 for better adoption. It's the bloody proprietary memory cards that make the system expensive, not the system itself. ~$80 for 32GB, compared to ~$20 for a speed-10 32GB SD Card for the 3DS. Not even the biggest Sony apologist can defend the price of the Vita memory.
I really hope the PS4 uses standard laptop hard drives like the PS3 does. I don't understand how one company can do console hard drives so right and do handheld memory so wrong.
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I'm hoping the cost is reasonable also. I have come to the conclusion that I know how each generation works. Nintendo has the hardware that I really enjoy, but most companies won't do anything major with them.
So it all comes to this: I get Nintendo's hardware for first party and unique exclusive stuff, and I get the PS3/maybe PS4 for the multiplat stuff that Nintendo won't get that I want. I'm ok with the arrangement.
Also, I hope the controller does have an actual touch screen and does off play. Off play has been my favorite thing about the WiiU. My wife wanted to watch some show about women and horses or something, so what did I do? Sat in my recliner and played the WiiU on the controller. It was awesome.
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
The $250 Vita is a good price for the tech that blows the 3DS out of the water, as much as I wish it was $200 for better adoption. It's the bloody proprietary memory cards that make the system expensive, not the system itself. ~$80 for 32GB, compared to ~$20 for a speed-10 32GB SD Card for the 3DS. Not even the biggest Sony apologist can defend the price of the Vita memory.
The price of the Vita is sitting in this weird area where it's like... almost too expensive, but it's not exactly super extreme ridiculous? Maybe I'm being forgiving. The problem with these price points (I'll be fair and say the 3DS suffers from this as well) is that it's the asking point for devices that exclusively play games in a world where devices for just a little bit more also play games - even if the presentation and complexity of those games are lacking in comparison. Mobile devices, I'm talking about. So the perception is a little weird.
Also, I hope the controller does have an actual touch screen and does off play. Off play has been my favorite thing about the WiiU. My wife wanted to watch some show about women and horses or something, so what did I do? Sat in my recliner and played the WiiU on the controller. It was awesome.
As said above, as long as they force Remote Play with the PS4, you'll be able to do the same thing with a Vita as you could with a WiiU pad.
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
The $250 Vita is a good price for the tech that blows the 3DS out of the water, as much as I wish it was $200 for better adoption. It's the bloody proprietary memory cards that make the system expensive, not the system itself. ~$80 for 32GB, compared to ~$20 for a speed-10 32GB SD Card for the 3DS. Not even the biggest Sony apologist can defend the price of the Vita memory.
The price of the Vita is sitting in this weird area where it's like... almost too expensive, but it's not exactly super extreme ridiculous? Maybe I'm being forgiving. The problem with these price points (I'll be fair and say the 3DS suffers from this as well) is that it's the asking point for devices that exclusively play games in a world where devices for just a little bit more also play games - even if the presentation and complexity of those games are lacking in comparison. Mobile devices, I'm talking about. So the perception is a little weird.
Point, but as much as I love my iPad 4 for various uses, it pales as a gaming device (outside of perhaps a couple small genres) next to my 3DS and Vita. If you want gaming, getting a handheld is obvious.
Also, I hope the controller does have an actual touch screen and does off play. Off play has been my favorite thing about the WiiU. My wife wanted to watch some show about women and horses or something, so what did I do? Sat in my recliner and played the WiiU on the controller. It was awesome.
As said above, as long as they force Remote Play with the PS4, you'll be able to do the same thing with a Vita as you could with a WiiU pad.
If you have a Vita, though.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Also, I hope the controller does have an actual touch screen and does off play. Off play has been my favorite thing about the WiiU. My wife wanted to watch some show about women and horses or something, so what did I do? Sat in my recliner and played the WiiU on the controller. It was awesome.
As said above, as long as they force Remote Play with the PS4, you'll be able to do the same thing with a Vita as you could with a WiiU pad.
I hope they go the screen in the controller route though, because I have not the money nor desire to buy a Vita. :P
From the Western Animation thread, @Novid teases some relevant PS4 news (he was involved in the failed Thundercats reboot and has several contacts in the animation industry):
Folks. If you dont watch the Sony PS4 Reveal on the 20th, your going to be missing some big, big things. Trust me - There is a reason why half the industry went quiet the last several weeks since Sony made the announcement about there IPTV plans. Nobody in Amazon or Netflix will be fucking happy and Crunchyrolls days are numbered. The rest of the cable business in ON Board with Sony because Sony isnt in the business of screwing clients over. It will help the blu-ray business too. But what it does for animation is the best thing in half a generation - at least that is what i hear.
I'm currently subscribed to Netflix and really don't desire subbing for an additional service, but I'm curious about this thing he's talking about.
What kind of launch games will they have I wonder?
GTAV?
I am totally on board with the notion of buying "PS3.5" games that are enhanced with 60 fps, higher res textures and such. Basically the PC versions, but without having to tinker with various settings to get it all working.
I mentioned in a Twitter discussion a bit back, and I still share the sentiment today: the lack of strong Japanese developed games really hurt the PS3. When asked to name my favorite PS2 titles, I wasn't surprised to learn that at least 90% of them were from a third party Japanese studio. I suspect the same goes for many others here.
I don't know if the PS3 is to blame for the collective statement from Japanese studios that "HD is hard", but what I'm hoping for above all else is that the PS4 becomes significantly easier to develop for. I don't foresee many studios flocking to the next Xbox, and they haven't totally warmed up to the Wii U either, so this is a prime opportunity for Sony to get that strong third party lineup they had during the PS2 days.
And though it's borderline impossible for them to buy Square Enix, it would be nice if they at least invested in some sort of IP exclusivity or something. I say this because I still have little doubt Square's going to get Final Fantasy back on track all on their own. They need some newer, more business-minded blood to step in and say "enough with these mediocre annual titles and utterly shitty iOS games. You need help making that huge budget FF title? We're here to help".
If they're still set on making Versus a Sony exclusive game, well there's your chance to do just that.
What kind of launch games will they have I wonder?
GTAV?
I am totally on board with the notion of buying "PS3.5" games that are enhanced with 60 fps, higher res textures and such. Basically the PC versions, but without having to tinker with various settings to get it all working..
Well you're in luck because I suspect that's exactly what the next gen will be like.
Next gen is devs using the power of the machines for other things rather than pure graphics. A.I, crowds, physics, etc. That's going to be what sees a huge jump in console games.
As it stands...I'm never giving money to MS again.
I was also one of those that forsook them in favor of the PS3...it was a great decision.
It'll be a while but if I get another next Gen console besides my WiiU, it'll end up being the PS4.
Now Sony, debut a new Ratchet title for it and I'll grab one at launch.
If I start playing the "You hurt me, baby" game; then I can't really justify getting Sony OR Microsoft (and I'm not terribly interested in Nintendo anymore).
MS had a shitty hardware track record this gen (though I only had to replace my 360 once and it seems recent models are more stable); they've gotten awfully anemic when it comes to exclusives, the Kinect murdered Rare just when I was getting interested in them again and paying money for online play is so fucking archaic. Plus Balmer has apparently cut the companies balls off to cement his leadership position at MS, leaving the Xbox division without any strong leadership.
Meanwhile. Sony hasn't shown the ability to spec hardware towards a reasonable price, they had very nasty network hack that royally screwed me over, and they have bad habit of "me-tooing" stuff which winds up hurting their credibility and their hardware. (Shitty motion controls in, rumble out!) And they seem to have an exceptionally hard time admitting mistakes, to the detriment of their company.
Looking at it, I basically have to stick my fingers in my ears and go "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!" if I have any desire to join the next generation. Sucks. I am a consumer whore.
From the Western Animation thread, @Novid teases some relevant PS4 news (he was involved in the failed Thundercats reboot and has several contacts in the animation industry):
Folks. If you dont watch the Sony PS4 Reveal on the 20th, your going to be missing some big, big things. Trust me - There is a reason why half the industry went quiet the last several weeks since Sony made the announcement about there IPTV plans. Nobody in Amazon or Netflix will be fucking happy and Crunchyrolls days are numbered. The rest of the cable business in ON Board with Sony because Sony isnt in the business of screwing clients over. It will help the blu-ray business too. But what it does for animation is the best thing in half a generation - at least that is what i hear.
I'm currently subscribed to Netflix and really don't desire subbing for an additional service, but I'm curious about this thing he's talking about.
Maybe it'll be included with PS+?
Doesn't make any sense if they're going to unveil a PS4 or whatever exclusive service. What makes Netflix, Hulu, and Crunchyroll so go is that they're on everything - you can wath them on your tablets, phones, computers, and gaming devices and aren't 100% tied to a TV in a single stationary residence.
But including a streaming service with PS+ would be a good move.
All we've seen so far that can be even speculated as "next-gen" is 2 carefully scripted demos of WatchDogs and Star Wars 1313. And the majority of people split their wig when they saw that stuff in action last year.
There's an entire section of the industry out there who's toying with all this new stuff and I think we as the general public really have no clue just how far our jaws are going to be dropped when this stuff starts rolling out. The signs and chatter from developers in the know are all pointing to a substantial leap in technology so I see no reason to think next-gen is just going to be "everything is the same but now it's 60FPS" , " Game X in 1080p standard", or "2 consoles duct-taped together"
.
Custom implementation of AMD Fusion APU Arquitecture (Accelerated Processing Unit)
Provides good performance with low power consumtion
Integrated CPU and GPU
Considerably bigger and more powerful than AMD’s other APUs
CPU:
Orbis contains eight Jaguar cores at 1.6 Ghz, arranged as two “clusters”
Each cluster contains 4 cores and a shared 2MB L2 cache
256-bit SIMD operations, 128-bit SIMD ALU
SSE up to SSE4, as well as Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX)
One hardware thread per core
Decodes, executes and retires at up to two intructions/cycle
Out of order execution
Per-core dedicated L1-I and L1-D cache (32Kb each)
Two pipes per core yield 12,8 GFlops performance
102.4 GFlops for system
GPU:
GPU is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture
DirectX 11.1+ feature set
Liverpool is an enhanced version of the architecture
18 Compute Units (CUs)
Hardware balanced at 14 CUs
Shared 512 KB of read/write L2 cache
800 Mhz
1.843 Tflops, 922 GigaOps/s
Dual shader engines
18 texture units
8 Render backends
Memory:
4 GB unified system memory, 176 GB/s
3.5 available to games (estimate)
Storage:
- High speed Blu-ray drive
single layer (25 GB) or dual layer (50 GB) discs
Partial constant angular velocity (PCAV)
Outer half of disc 6x (27 MB/s)
Inner half varies, 3.3x to 6x
- Internal mass storage
One SKU at launch: 500 GB HDD
There may also be a Flash drive SKU in the future
Networking:
1 Gb/s Ethernet, 802.11b/g/n WIFI, and Bluetooth
Peripherals:
Evolved Dualshock controller
Dual Camera
Move controller
Extra:
Audio Processor (ACP)
Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units
Display ScanOut Engine (DCE)
Zlib Decompression Hardware
UPDATE: some people is confused about the GPU, here you have more info about it:
Each CU contains dedicated:
- ALU (32 64-bit operations per cycle)
- Texture Unit
- L1 data cache
- Local data share (LDS)
About 14 + 4 balance:
- 4 additional CUs (410 Gflops) “extra” ALU as resource for compute
- Minor boost if used for rendering
Dual Shader Engines:
- 1.6 billion triangles/s, 1.6 billion vertices/s
18 Texture units
- 56 billion bilinear texture reads/s
- Can utilize full memory bandwith
8 Render backends:
- 32 color ops/cycle
- 128 depth ops/cycle
- Can utilize full memory bandwith
If both leaked specs for Orbis and Durango are true, on paper Orbis is a more powerful system while Durango will still have the successful Kinnect (2.0) and their media center marketing to lean back on. The both have piratically the same CPU with very different GPUs (Orbis's being more powerful) and different RAM layouts.
Orbis has 4gb of super-fast GDDR5 (176 GB/s), the ram you find in your graphics cards. Durango has 8gb of traditional DDR3 (68 GB/s) and a small 32mb of fast ESRAM (102 GB/s, still slower than PS3 memory) and a much larger OS memory footprint from reports at 1-3GB. So yeah, Orbis's main ram is 2.5x faster than Durango's and 70% faster than it's small 32mb of fast ram.
Edit: Sony may boost their ram up to 8gb in the final version. I'm not sure how I feel about that as 8GB of DRRR5 would be expensive and the 4gb they have will already out-process the 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM Microsoft has. And I doubt the move. Because again, GDDR5 is fucking expensive.
That GPU: what's the nearest equivalent amongst commercially available cards? (for us nontech folks)
Also, keep in mind, the benefit of consoles is that the developers have access to the exact specs... On PC it's a different ballgame because everyone's CPUs can be completely different. So they can certainly make it work better.
Next gen is devs using the power of the machines for other things rather than pure graphics. A.I, crowds, physics, etc. That's going to be what sees a huge jump in console games.
That's pretty much what I'm hoping for the most as well.
Sure, I'm still the kid at heart who wants "moar graphicz!" with each new system, but I'm also aware that the rising costs of development mean that only the biggest companies will be able to create UE4 games with movie-sized budgets. I'd much rather see companies get a better handle on the current technology and use that knowledge to create better running, more mechanically sound games.
That's one of the things I'm hoping the Wii U pulls off: it may about to be a generation behind, but it's also capable of running the best looking and best running games with that technology. That's the kind of approach I want to see with these new systems: instead of focusing on the sharpest possible textures or effects, fine-tune the little details they couldn't get right with the previous systems, including smoother framerates, less confined areas, vsync and so on.
My prediction for Microsoft's next console is that it'll be the "louder" of the two. The focus will be on multiplayer and social interaction, since those were their big moneymakers for the 360. I imagine a console including all the latest apps right out of the box (Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, etc) and coming up with new ways to utilize those services with their games. Likewise, their games will be the aforementioned super budget first party titles, since they can afford it and people will eat that shit right up. It'll be the big Mountain Dew-sponsored Superbowl Videogame Console and Xbox Live will be filled with as many shitty pre-teens screaming obscenities into their microphones as they did with the 360.
And I'm perfectly okay with that, because I tend to enjoy the bombastic from time to time.
Sony will probably go with the sleeker Apple-like approach, putting more emphasis on hardware and ease-of-use while occasionally pumping out stuff from their God of War/Naughty Dog/Killzone teams. They'll also probably introduce their own social services, where I suspect half of it will be wholly ignored by players.
I think the Vita is a great system that does a lot of things I wanted right out of the gate, so I'd like to see a lot of that carried over to PS4. My biggest worry, however, is if they'll repeat the same mistake they made with the Vita and PS3, in which they start things off with a decent launch, then "10 months of jack shit", while slashing the price later on and wondering what went wrong for the third time in a row.
It kills me that the Vita is struggling, because it has no reason to. Make the fucking games, Sony. Persona 4 Golden? One of the best games of 2012. Go make more of those. Hurry the fuck up.
This is what I meant by the PS3.5 comment earlier. I'm not saying I want that to be the majority standard for PS4, but they can at least get away with a more enticing launch lineup by including "enhanced" editions of GTAV, Beyond, and (lord willing) Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
Basically, what I've gathered from the rumors is that Sony's machine is gaming focused and Microsoft is trying to make a do everything box. When the 360 and PS3 were about to launch I made the decsion to choose one console and stick with it, since being a PC gamer and trying to maintain 2 or more consoles was ridiculous on a low budget. I chose 360 before launch because I had owned the original Xbox and saw that Microsoft was onto something. Despite 3 red-rings (and now no 360 at all), I felt I made the right choice and enjoyed my time with the console. Never owned a PS3 or had any desire to, despite previously owning 6 PS2s and several PS1s. With these new consoles about to come out my spider-sense is telling me the PS4 is the way to go this gen.
All we've seen so far that can be even speculated as "next-gen" is 2 carefully scripted demos of WatchDogs and Star Wars 1313. And the majority of people split their wig when they saw that stuff in action last year.
There's an entire section of the industry out there who's toying with all this new stuff and I think we as the general public really have no clue just how far our jaws are going to be dropped when this stuff starts rolling out. The signs and chatter from developers in the know are all pointing to a substantial leap in technology so I see no reason to think next-gen is just going to be "everything is the same but now it's 60FPS" , " Game X in 1080p standard", or "2 consoles duct-taped together".
Either total realism or a deep dive into the uncanny valley. Or perhaps we'll be able to bring FMV back and do it right this time - I'd be up for that.
Even so, I cannot help but find your statements slightly hyperbolic. I have a feeling my jaw is only going to drop if they also announce a totally new kind of game, one which was previously unimaginable. A kind of game so new and different we'd need to invent an entirely new genre for it.
Or a Shin Megami Tensei/Fire Emblem crossover. That would do it too.
All we've seen so far that can be even speculated as "next-gen" is 2 carefully scripted demos of WatchDogs and Star Wars 1313. And the majority of people split their wig when they saw that stuff in action last year.
There's an entire section of the industry out there who's toying with all this new stuff and I think we as the general public really have no clue just how far our jaws are going to be dropped when this stuff starts rolling out. The signs and chatter from developers in the know are all pointing to a substantial leap in technology so I see no reason to think next-gen is just going to be "everything is the same but now it's 60FPS" , " Game X in 1080p standard", or "2 consoles duct-taped together".
Either total realism or a deep dive into the uncanny valley. Or perhaps we'll be able to bring FMV back and do it right this time - I'd be up for that.
Even so, I cannot help but find your statements slightly hyperbolic. I have a feeling my jaw is only going to drop if they also announce a totally new kind of game, one which was previously unimaginable. A kind of game so new and different we'd need to invent an entirely new genre for it.
Or a Shin Megami Tensei/Fire Emblem crossover. That would do it too.
You're talking about the Oculus Rift.
That's the game changer for everything when the commercial version comes out. But that's another thread.
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The reason this gen has stretched on for so long is because Microsoft and Sony are trying to milk every damn nickle out of the current hardware before going on the very expensive route of making new hardware. It aint got nothing to do with your ill-conceived, brainless and delusional ideas that better hardware can't be used to make games even better than what we currently have.
Look. 1) I didn't actually say "Hardware can't be used to make games even better than what we currently have." I'm just saying because of diminished returns it's not the only thing console makers can rely on, and the way the industry is going supports that (if they're just trying to drain all the money they can, why didn't he previous gen stretch on like it did)?
And 2) If you can't talk about this without getting angry and throwing out random personal attacks I'm not going to engage you on this.
As for the news, this thing here is pretty interesting:
A new Share button on the controller will, when pressed, launch a new feature that will allow screenshots and video to be distributed online. The PS4 hardware will continually record the most recent 15 minutes of onscreen action (with no processing penalty, claims our source), which users will then be able to edit and broadcast via the Internet.
I also hope they make remote play a mandatory feature for PS4 games instead of a optional thing for PS3 games. Hacked PS3's show that 95%+ of games are capable of being remote played to a Vita easily, but most developers don't tick that check-box.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
You hit a point of diminishing returns with that stuff though. Stuff like Shadow Of The Colossus on the PS2 still looks better than some of the middle year PS3 games, because while cutting edge graphics always look great at the time, they don't stand up as long as stylized graphics. Like Dishonored has a weird painterly style about it that's gonna look the same 10 years from now, but I'm betting Metal Gear Rising sure won't be as impressive then.
Ed dang got caught up in freezy glitch town too long. :I
Talk of new stuff being patched into the PS3 isn't particularly realistic given how limited its OS is, which is why the in-game XMB is so slow and why we never got cross game chat. So from an OS point of view, there's an absolute ton of stuff that they could add. Just look at the myriad of features the Vita has that the PS3 completely lacks: Multi-tasking, cross game chat, proper custom soundtracks, parties, friend activity logs and so on.
From a development side of things, the more standard hardware will be a huge improvement, as there'll no longer be any need to optimise code for the Cell. And the RAM will be another huge benefit, especially for technically inept studios like Bethesda.
And in terms of the games themselves, there are obvious improvements that could be made. Can you argue that there's diminished returns? Sure, but people said that heading into this gen and it was proved absolutely ridiculous. Just taking a look at current PC games shows huge improvements over the 360/PS3/WiiU and the standardised hardware of the PS4/720 should be able to deliver even better results. Given how fucking amazing GoW: Ascension looks on the PS3's outdated hardware, I can't fucking wait to see what Sony Santa Monica, in particular, can get out of the new hardware.
Don't forget backwards compatibility. As much as I'd like them to sneak a Cell into the PS4 and emulate the RSX, given us complete PS3 BC, doing it via Gaikai might be a better option.
It isn't Sony or Microsoft's fault that publishers tend to favor sequels to new ideas. The movie industry is in exactly the same boat. All of the biggest blockbuster movies are all sequels and remakes.
If the "big three" were really interested in new ideas and creating new IPs, they'd give the money to the studios right now to let them make those games.
Oh sure, but Sony's still got to get the attention of people who aren't graphics whores like us. People like my relatives who think that Resident Evil 4 on the Wii looks just about as good as your average 360/PS3 game. People who have gotten used to playing Facebook and smartphone games. Not to pile on, but the main strategy for the Vita was "it's super-powerful!" but the system didn't catch on with the general public.
I just get the feeling that this generation will be the generation of the crazy gimmick in order to get people's attention, and I'm wondering what Sony's will be.
Seriously, imagine a Steel Battalion kinetic game that actually freaking works!
I keep forgetting to follow that account, damn that's awesome.
Anyway, I'm not so excited for this announcement because "oh man the next Playstation." I'm excited because I want to see what Sony's concept of what should come next is. Also, rumors can die or be confirmed.
The only thing I'll say as outlook is that if any component or system of the "Orbis" involves proprietary technology, Sony will have sounded their own death knell. Before I get shit on for blindly shitting on Sony, let me just point out that the Vita's memory sticks are expensive as all hell and it has been unattractive to a lot of people. Also that the PSP's UMD film format fell on its ass. Also Sony's 3DTV department has fallen on its ass. Also, the Blu-Ray fiasco for the PS3 drove the cost up astronomically and put the industry (and motion picture industry) in a dumb format war. I still maintain that Sony was lucky to have won that - just imagine what it would've looked like if they lost that battle.
I know that after the semi-disaster of the $600 PS3 the answer would be "doy, anyone would have learned that lesson," but the $250 PSP Go and the $250 Vita still happened. And, since generations seem to be getting longer (and the next-gen could be longer still thanks to diminishing returns the general market can perceive), the thought could be to make something as powerful as possible now in an attempt to future-proof it.
I'd also like for them to build a faster network and require less updating (I don't own one, but I keep hearing gripes about updating on the Vita).
That's a trap that MS can fall into as well. But I'll leave Microsoft out of this since this is about Sony.
Future-proofing would be a terrible, terrible idea. Because of costs, that is.
Well, the PS3 first party series were mostly completely different than the PS2 first party series, even if a lot of the developers were the same. I'm honestly expecting new franchises and IPs again this time around for the PS4 again with a small few continuing ones.
The $250 Vita is a good price for the tech that blows the 3DS out of the water, as much as I wish it was $200 for better adoption. It's the bloody proprietary memory cards that make the system expensive, not the system itself. ~$80 for 32GB, compared to ~$20 for a speed-10 32GB SD Card for the 3DS. Not even the biggest Sony apologist can defend the price of the Vita memory.
I really hope the PS4 uses standard laptop hard drives like the PS3 does. I don't understand how one company can do console hard drives so right and do handheld memory so wrong.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
So it all comes to this: I get Nintendo's hardware for first party and unique exclusive stuff, and I get the PS3/maybe PS4 for the multiplat stuff that Nintendo won't get that I want. I'm ok with the arrangement.
Also, I hope the controller does have an actual touch screen and does off play. Off play has been my favorite thing about the WiiU. My wife wanted to watch some show about women and horses or something, so what did I do? Sat in my recliner and played the WiiU on the controller. It was awesome.
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The price of the Vita is sitting in this weird area where it's like... almost too expensive, but it's not exactly super extreme ridiculous? Maybe I'm being forgiving. The problem with these price points (I'll be fair and say the 3DS suffers from this as well) is that it's the asking point for devices that exclusively play games in a world where devices for just a little bit more also play games - even if the presentation and complexity of those games are lacking in comparison. Mobile devices, I'm talking about. So the perception is a little weird.
As said above, as long as they force Remote Play with the PS4, you'll be able to do the same thing with a Vita as you could with a WiiU pad.
Point, but as much as I love my iPad 4 for various uses, it pales as a gaming device (outside of perhaps a couple small genres) next to my 3DS and Vita. If you want gaming, getting a handheld is obvious.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
If you have a Vita, though.
I hope they go the screen in the controller route though, because I have not the money nor desire to buy a Vita. :P
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I'm currently subscribed to Netflix and really don't desire subbing for an additional service, but I'm curious about this thing he's talking about.
Maybe it'll be included with PS+?
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GTAV?
I am totally on board with the notion of buying "PS3.5" games that are enhanced with 60 fps, higher res textures and such. Basically the PC versions, but without having to tinker with various settings to get it all working.
I mentioned in a Twitter discussion a bit back, and I still share the sentiment today: the lack of strong Japanese developed games really hurt the PS3. When asked to name my favorite PS2 titles, I wasn't surprised to learn that at least 90% of them were from a third party Japanese studio. I suspect the same goes for many others here.
I don't know if the PS3 is to blame for the collective statement from Japanese studios that "HD is hard", but what I'm hoping for above all else is that the PS4 becomes significantly easier to develop for. I don't foresee many studios flocking to the next Xbox, and they haven't totally warmed up to the Wii U either, so this is a prime opportunity for Sony to get that strong third party lineup they had during the PS2 days.
And though it's borderline impossible for them to buy Square Enix, it would be nice if they at least invested in some sort of IP exclusivity or something. I say this because I still have little doubt Square's going to get Final Fantasy back on track all on their own. They need some newer, more business-minded blood to step in and say "enough with these mediocre annual titles and utterly shitty iOS games. You need help making that huge budget FF title? We're here to help".
If they're still set on making Versus a Sony exclusive game, well there's your chance to do just that.
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Well you're in luck because I suspect that's exactly what the next gen will be like.
Next gen is devs using the power of the machines for other things rather than pure graphics. A.I, crowds, physics, etc. That's going to be what sees a huge jump in console games.
If I start playing the "You hurt me, baby" game; then I can't really justify getting Sony OR Microsoft (and I'm not terribly interested in Nintendo anymore).
MS had a shitty hardware track record this gen (though I only had to replace my 360 once and it seems recent models are more stable); they've gotten awfully anemic when it comes to exclusives, the Kinect murdered Rare just when I was getting interested in them again and paying money for online play is so fucking archaic. Plus Balmer has apparently cut the companies balls off to cement his leadership position at MS, leaving the Xbox division without any strong leadership.
Meanwhile. Sony hasn't shown the ability to spec hardware towards a reasonable price, they had very nasty network hack that royally screwed me over, and they have bad habit of "me-tooing" stuff which winds up hurting their credibility and their hardware. (Shitty motion controls in, rumble out!) And they seem to have an exceptionally hard time admitting mistakes, to the detriment of their company.
Looking at it, I basically have to stick my fingers in my ears and go "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!" if I have any desire to join the next generation. Sucks. I am a consumer whore.
Doesn't make any sense if they're going to unveil a PS4 or whatever exclusive service. What makes Netflix, Hulu, and Crunchyroll so go is that they're on everything - you can wath them on your tablets, phones, computers, and gaming devices and aren't 100% tied to a TV in a single stationary residence.
But including a streaming service with PS+ would be a good move.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
All we've seen so far that can be even speculated as "next-gen" is 2 carefully scripted demos of WatchDogs and Star Wars 1313. And the majority of people split their wig when they saw that stuff in action last year.
There's an entire section of the industry out there who's toying with all this new stuff and I think we as the general public really have no clue just how far our jaws are going to be dropped when this stuff starts rolling out. The signs and chatter from developers in the know are all pointing to a substantial leap in technology so I see no reason to think next-gen is just going to be "everything is the same but now it's 60FPS" , " Game X in 1080p standard", or "2 consoles duct-taped together"
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That GPU: what's the nearest equivalent amongst commercially available cards? (for us nontech folks)
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
This is the video card I have (which I purchased about 2 years ago) compared to what is written above:
http://i.imgur.com/q1SnkRU.png
My card is the Radeon HD 6850, and it's running $100ish now.
It's really hard to compare these two, really, but you get an idea.
mine vs PS4
1.488 TFLOPS vs 1.843 TFLOPS
775Mhz vs 800 Mhz
48 texture units vs 18 texture units
32 render backends vs 8
FLOPS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOPS
Basically "instructions per second".
That's pretty much what I'm hoping for the most as well.
Sure, I'm still the kid at heart who wants "moar graphicz!" with each new system, but I'm also aware that the rising costs of development mean that only the biggest companies will be able to create UE4 games with movie-sized budgets. I'd much rather see companies get a better handle on the current technology and use that knowledge to create better running, more mechanically sound games.
That's one of the things I'm hoping the Wii U pulls off: it may about to be a generation behind, but it's also capable of running the best looking and best running games with that technology. That's the kind of approach I want to see with these new systems: instead of focusing on the sharpest possible textures or effects, fine-tune the little details they couldn't get right with the previous systems, including smoother framerates, less confined areas, vsync and so on.
My prediction for Microsoft's next console is that it'll be the "louder" of the two. The focus will be on multiplayer and social interaction, since those were their big moneymakers for the 360. I imagine a console including all the latest apps right out of the box (Facebook, Netflix, Twitter, etc) and coming up with new ways to utilize those services with their games. Likewise, their games will be the aforementioned super budget first party titles, since they can afford it and people will eat that shit right up. It'll be the big Mountain Dew-sponsored Superbowl Videogame Console and Xbox Live will be filled with as many shitty pre-teens screaming obscenities into their microphones as they did with the 360.
And I'm perfectly okay with that, because I tend to enjoy the bombastic from time to time.
Sony will probably go with the sleeker Apple-like approach, putting more emphasis on hardware and ease-of-use while occasionally pumping out stuff from their God of War/Naughty Dog/Killzone teams. They'll also probably introduce their own social services, where I suspect half of it will be wholly ignored by players.
I think the Vita is a great system that does a lot of things I wanted right out of the gate, so I'd like to see a lot of that carried over to PS4. My biggest worry, however, is if they'll repeat the same mistake they made with the Vita and PS3, in which they start things off with a decent launch, then "10 months of jack shit", while slashing the price later on and wondering what went wrong for the third time in a row.
It kills me that the Vita is struggling, because it has no reason to. Make the fucking games, Sony. Persona 4 Golden? One of the best games of 2012. Go make more of those. Hurry the fuck up.
This is what I meant by the PS3.5 comment earlier. I'm not saying I want that to be the majority standard for PS4, but they can at least get away with a more enticing launch lineup by including "enhanced" editions of GTAV, Beyond, and (lord willing) Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
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Either total realism or a deep dive into the uncanny valley. Or perhaps we'll be able to bring FMV back and do it right this time - I'd be up for that.
Even so, I cannot help but find your statements slightly hyperbolic. I have a feeling my jaw is only going to drop if they also announce a totally new kind of game, one which was previously unimaginable. A kind of game so new and different we'd need to invent an entirely new genre for it.
Or a Shin Megami Tensei/Fire Emblem crossover. That would do it too.
You're talking about the Oculus Rift.
That's the game changer for everything when the commercial version comes out. But that's another thread.