In the end I just didn't see anything during the display that would sell me on an entirely new system. Jonathan Blow's new game looks really interesting, but certainly not new console interesting. I love my PS3 though, so I can safely say if I decide I need something to go with the Wii U at some point next gen it'll be the PS4 just because I do like the Sony exclusives more than MS.
I wonder how comfortable that touch pad will be in use though. I thought the PSPGo was an awesome little piece of hardware but even with largish hands reaching over so much plastic and a dpad just to get to the analog numb always felt awkward. I would like to know in practice using it for long periods of time how that will feel.
And this is also where a LOT of people are going to be burned this generation. All your DLC that you bought over the last 7 years? Locked to the PS3. All your Rock Band purchases? Locked. All your game purchases? Locked. You'll probably get your trophies/social info, but otherwise...
I wish my wife would F%#[email protected] me as hard as Sony is F$@#%@ their fans.
Hey, whoa now, this is an adult forum. Keep your F%#[email protected]'s the fuck away from our motherfucking shit.
It's strange. Sony has a unified account system, but you can't play your old games on the new system so it doesn't really matter, there's no transfer to be done. Nintendo has no unified account system, but you could transfer all of your content over and play it on the new system day one.
These things aren't mutually exclusive, someday we've got to get the best of both worlds here.
Anyone who didn't see PSN stuff not carrying forward was delusional. Like I said last night, it's all based on the Cell architecture, so if they aren't bringing that forward, then how are they going to keep supporting it?
It depends on what they're specifically referring to.
PSOne/2 Classics? I'm not buying that excuse, because....well, Vita = ARM.
PS3 download titles I'm certainly not going to be surprised about, all that does is fall in line with what has already been established.
And this is also where a LOT of people are going to be burned this generation. All your DLC that you bought over the last 7 years? Locked to the PS3. All your Rock Band purchases? Locked. All your game purchases? Locked. You'll probably get your trophies/social info, but otherwise...
I wish my wife would F%#[email protected] me as hard as Sony is F$@#%@ their fans.
All that DLC would do you a lot of good on a system where you can't play the game it's used for!
"I can't play Assassin's Creed 3 on my PS4, but man, fuck Sony for locking my King Washington DLC to my PS3!"
I'm not convinced I need a new console, and Sony didn't change my mind last night*. Especially with the games.
Watch Dogs? Destiny? They'll play perfectly fine on whatever system you currently own.
A new Final Fantasy? Square was more trolling than announcing.
Seriously? Diablo? Someone thinks this is news? A game that's sold over 10 million copies is somehow going to be a system seller? I think anyone who wants it probably already has it.
The exclusives? Nothing that lights a fire under me.
*I don't expect Microsoft to change my mind either.
I really hate when someone goes "Oh, BC is irrelevant, I don't care about it, so obviously no one else should"
Sure, no one care when the SNES didn't run NES games, you just put one beside the other, or shove the NES into a box at the basement... But nowadays I have 3 systems plugged into my tv, plus two others in the bedroom. I have a huge backlog for all of them, plus a select few game I enjoy playing once in a while, regardless of having beaten them. I don't want to add 3 more boxes to that living room setup.
Plus, a lot of people sell their older systems to help pay for the new ones. A lot of those want to sell just the machine, not the game.
BC probably isn't a factor for the Bro-gamers and the casual people, but for the kind of person who comes to this forum, it's a very big deal.
The only real people to get "burned" though are the tiny minority of people who even care about BC, and even those people are just likely to keep their old consoles if they're that upset about it.
The vast majority of people will just sell off all their old hardware to put a dent in the cost of the new. I can't be bothered with going back to play old games when there's newer and better things constantly released. If you think people outside of PA or GAF or any other forum will be outraged you're living in a bubble.
There aren't many of those out there as a percentage of the install base. BC isn't an important feature for most people.
The 8GB of GDDR5 is pretty nice. Means the PC games will actually have the smaller environments for once (at least until DDR4 is ready) due to bandwidth constraints.
I somewhat doubt it. The GDDR5 thing is heavily, heavily overrated because it's taken in isolation. Your high end gaming rigs still kick seven kinds of poop out the PS4. We can expect some good visuals on PS4 games, but better than that of dedicated gaming PCs?
You get what you pay for.
Also, what is "lacking large environments" currently? I could see more details within the same environment, but as far as overall size I don't see it different between platforms at all. Take Skyrim for example... no version of the game has a bigger "environment", even on PC.
Look at games that weren't designed with an equal-content console port in mind, like Battlefield 3 or various PC exclusives.
Ah ok. In that case (BF3) PC had a much larger leap over console hardware. I don't see this 8gigs of DDR5 making the PS4 have games with bigger environments than PC.
Before Dead Space 3 came out, I went back and played Dead Space 1 and 2. I know I'm not the only gamer that does that kind of thing either. And like Stormwatcher said, I'm one of those people who doesn't want a ton of systems cluttering my living space. So BC matters to me. Honestly, if Xbox goes the same 'no BC' route, I will be more likely to buy games on Steam instead of consoles in the future.
I think BC is more a selling point to a parent. It definitely helps in the portable space that kids can play DS games on their 3DS for example. It's not a "core" gamer issue - but I think for alot of families they have one console in the family or living room and not having to start from scratch with accessories/games can be a selling point, especially at the beginning of a console's life cycle when every game is still full $60 retail and in today's world of $40+ controllers.
The only real people to get "burned" though are the tiny minority of people who even care about BC, and even those people are just likely to keep their old consoles if they're that upset about it.
The vast majority of people will just sell off all their old hardware to put a dent in the cost of the new. I can't be bothered with going back to play old games when there's newer and better things constantly released. If you think people outside of PA or GAF or any other forum will be outraged you're living in a bubble.
My wife was annoyed, but not outraged. She just wants to be able to play Dragon Age and LBP without having extra shit in our entertainment center.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
The only real people to get "burned" though are the tiny minority of people who even care about BC, and even those people are just likely to keep their old consoles if they're that upset about it.
The vast majority of people will just sell off all their old hardware to put a dent in the cost of the new. I can't be bothered with going back to play old games when there's newer and better things constantly released. If you think people outside of PA or GAF or any other forum will be outraged you're living in a bubble.
Sometimes I wonder if it's not the opposite, if you'll only find anti-BC apologists on forums, because in the real world people like to save money and upgrade while retaining everything they purchased previously.
In reality there's a lot that goes into any console purchase - maybe Vita sells poorly for every reason except BC, maybe 360 sold well despite BC being very important to the average consumer. Honestly we have nothing to help us understand its significance one way or the other. Anecdotes are worthless. Logic isn't helpful because of the number of variables. I don't think it's feasible to say that anyone's living in a bubble because they think one way or the other.
Okay, the PS3 is the first next-gen console that people are likely to buy.
I'm expecting Durango to be more powerful than PS4. You can usually get more power with specialized architecture than with x86. Sony's not going for MAXXX GRAFX this time. They're trying to ensure profitability happens as soon as possible and doesn't depend on moving 80m units. This and the fact that it's not being used to try to Trojan horse a proprietary format of some kind is a mind-blowing 180 from the Kutargi philosophy. I'm glad they're aware that RAM is a big deal when it comes to how much crap you can get on screen. I wonder if the GPU has any eDRAM? That was quite successful over the last couple generations. Unified memory with no separate bandwidth for any graphics-related functions at all was a bottleneck on both the OXbox and the N64.
They also seem to be well aware that power just isn't that big a deal. Durango will be more powerful, but it won't be a generation more powerful. It's not going to be "We had to remove 40% of the players, half the vehicles, and most of the map just to port Battlefield from the Xbox to the Playstation" more powerful. It's going to be "if you give a fuck, go over to lensoftruth and shit yourself in the comments about details no one cares about" more powerful.
The only way Durango will be more powerful than the PS4 is if they roll out a brand new, more powerful, devkit.
As of current specs, the have the same CPU, the PS4 has a more powerful GPU, and 8GB GDDR5 blows away 8GB DDR3 by a factor of 2.5.
The ball's in Microsoft's court to beef up their specs.
BC probably isn't a factor for the Bro-gamers and the casual people, but for the kind of person who comes to this forum, it's a very big deal.
Aren't the bro-gamers and casuals the type who only own one console? I assume the type you are talking about are the enthusiasts who own multiple, and their setup is there to accomodate multiple. But you seem to want to have that enthusiast setup while being more like the bros and causuals?
This BC thing was decided back when they made the PS3, period. They thought some uber crazy cell processor was the next big thing and well it turned out to just be harder to develop for. It was a bit of a mistake, and in order to not make that mistake again they have to go with something that's pretty much a high end PC with some extra bits for gaming.
I agree, it would be nice if everything could carry over from PS3... but that thought as a reality never once entered my mind because it was a given that the cell processor thing just wasn't as great as they originally pitched it.
Just think, if things had worked out differently, we'd have Cell processors in everything by now. And the robots would have killed us all.
Also, regarding PSN/XBL games...a lot of them have PC versions. With the new systems being more PC-like, how much time/effort would be needed to convert those games?
I did find the Watch Dog guy's speech about 'big brother' highly ironic after Sony just got done talking about the PS4 having cameras in our living rooms and the software monitoring everything we play and buy.
I did find the Watch Dog guy's speech about 'big brother' highly ironic after Sony just got done talking about the PS4 having cameras in our living rooms and the software monitoring everything we play and buy.
Certainly no indication of an anti-used software feature either.
Hello Microsoft, ball is now in your court.
No, Sony's anti-used movement is more implicit. By pushing the online downloadable space really hard, trying to get people to buy games that way. You either can't sell them ever, or Sony opens up a marketplace for you to sell back and buy digital games, and they get a cut. Either way, it implicitly cuts in to the used side.
Taking it back a bunch of pages, but a friend of mine mentioned that the smart move for used game market is for Sony/MS to open their own digital license store. When you buy a digital copy of a game, you're really buying the license to play it. Allow resales of that license where a percentage of the sale goes to the dev/publisher and a percentage goes to Sony/MS for hosting the sale in the first place. I think it's a great compromise. It allows physical copies to exist, it allows the used retail market to continue and it opens up new sources of income for the devs/publishers and for the console creators.
I think the thing I liked most from the conference was the prospect of using Gaikai to replace demos in the PSN. Want to try a game? Stream it and give it a shot.
That just seems really good, especially for the indie crowd.
How is it that console makers are the ones fulfilling the doomsday scenarios people talk about regarding Steam / GoG / etc?
You still own your games on it. You just need to hope to god that your PS3 doesn't break and you have to buy a new one if you want to play the games. So it is basically the same as physical games without the benefit of being able to sell them or give them away.
How is it that console makers are the ones fulfilling the doomsday scenarios people talk about regarding Steam / GoG / etc?
You still own your games on it. You just need to hope to god that your PS3 doesn't break and you have to buy a new one if you want to play the games. So it is basically the same as physical games without the benefit of being able to sell them or give them away.
By the way, anyone thinking this is acceptable business is out of their mind.
Personally I love BC, but it's really not a big enough factor for most companies to mess with. When Sony removed BC from the PS3, sales actually went up.
Then again, I wonder if people will care more about BC with network stuff since having the physical disk is psychologically reassuring that you've still got the game, plus smartphones have trained people to expect that kind of thing.
PS3 Uses the cell processor, it sucks and makes games hard to develop for, they should change that. Oh PS4 doesnt use cell processor? What the fuck sony, now we can't play the games except for the system we bought them on? Bullshit!
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
PS3 Uses the cell processor, it sucks and makes games hard to develop for, they should change that. Oh PS4 doesnt use cell processor? What the fuck sony, now we can't play the games except for the system we bought them on? Bullshit!
Yeah it was something clearly not given any thought to regarding the long-term future, and guess who pays the price?
They had to make a clean break at some point. I mean, if they continue to support Cell that would annoy developers and more importantly, drive up costs which would again lead to a lot of bitching on these boards.
Posts
I wonder how comfortable that touch pad will be in use though. I thought the PSPGo was an awesome little piece of hardware but even with largish hands reaching over so much plastic and a dpad just to get to the analog numb always felt awkward. I would like to know in practice using it for long periods of time how that will feel.
Hey, whoa now, this is an adult forum. Keep your F%#[email protected]'s the fuck away from our motherfucking shit.
These things aren't mutually exclusive, someday we've got to get the best of both worlds here.
It depends on what they're specifically referring to.
PSOne/2 Classics? I'm not buying that excuse, because....well, Vita = ARM.
PS3 download titles I'm certainly not going to be surprised about, all that does is fall in line with what has already been established.
All that DLC would do you a lot of good on a system where you can't play the game it's used for!
"I can't play Assassin's Creed 3 on my PS4, but man, fuck Sony for locking my King Washington DLC to my PS3!"
Watch Dogs? Destiny? They'll play perfectly fine on whatever system you currently own.
A new Final Fantasy? Square was more trolling than announcing.
Seriously? Diablo? Someone thinks this is news? A game that's sold over 10 million copies is somehow going to be a system seller? I think anyone who wants it probably already has it.
The exclusives? Nothing that lights a fire under me.
*I don't expect Microsoft to change my mind either.
Sure, no one care when the SNES didn't run NES games, you just put one beside the other, or shove the NES into a box at the basement... But nowadays I have 3 systems plugged into my tv, plus two others in the bedroom. I have a huge backlog for all of them, plus a select few game I enjoy playing once in a while, regardless of having beaten them. I don't want to add 3 more boxes to that living room setup.
Plus, a lot of people sell their older systems to help pay for the new ones. A lot of those want to sell just the machine, not the game.
BC probably isn't a factor for the Bro-gamers and the casual people, but for the kind of person who comes to this forum, it's a very big deal.
I doubt I'll be getting rid of my PS3 anytime soon now
The vast majority of people will just sell off all their old hardware to put a dent in the cost of the new. I can't be bothered with going back to play old games when there's newer and better things constantly released. If you think people outside of PA or GAF or any other forum will be outraged you're living in a bubble.
Its not my problem their bad design decisions have wiped out any BC.
Ah ok. In that case (BF3) PC had a much larger leap over console hardware. I don't see this 8gigs of DDR5 making the PS4 have games with bigger environments than PC.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My wife was annoyed, but not outraged. She just wants to be able to play Dragon Age and LBP without having extra shit in our entertainment center.
Sometimes I wonder if it's not the opposite, if you'll only find anti-BC apologists on forums, because in the real world people like to save money and upgrade while retaining everything they purchased previously.
In reality there's a lot that goes into any console purchase - maybe Vita sells poorly for every reason except BC, maybe 360 sold well despite BC being very important to the average consumer. Honestly we have nothing to help us understand its significance one way or the other. Anecdotes are worthless. Logic isn't helpful because of the number of variables. I don't think it's feasible to say that anyone's living in a bubble because they think one way or the other.
The only way Durango will be more powerful than the PS4 is if they roll out a brand new, more powerful, devkit.
As of current specs, the have the same CPU, the PS4 has a more powerful GPU, and 8GB GDDR5 blows away 8GB DDR3 by a factor of 2.5.
The ball's in Microsoft's court to beef up their specs.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Aren't the bro-gamers and casuals the type who only own one console? I assume the type you are talking about are the enthusiasts who own multiple, and their setup is there to accomodate multiple. But you seem to want to have that enthusiast setup while being more like the bros and causuals?
This BC thing was decided back when they made the PS3, period. They thought some uber crazy cell processor was the next big thing and well it turned out to just be harder to develop for. It was a bit of a mistake, and in order to not make that mistake again they have to go with something that's pretty much a high end PC with some extra bits for gaming.
I agree, it would be nice if everything could carry over from PS3... but that thought as a reality never once entered my mind because it was a given that the cell processor thing just wasn't as great as they originally pitched it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also, regarding PSN/XBL games...a lot of them have PC versions. With the new systems being more PC-like, how much time/effort would be needed to convert those games?
Taking it back a bunch of pages, but a friend of mine mentioned that the smart move for used game market is for Sony/MS to open their own digital license store. When you buy a digital copy of a game, you're really buying the license to play it. Allow resales of that license where a percentage of the sale goes to the dev/publisher and a percentage goes to Sony/MS for hosting the sale in the first place. I think it's a great compromise. It allows physical copies to exist, it allows the used retail market to continue and it opens up new sources of income for the devs/publishers and for the console creators.
That just seems really good, especially for the indie crowd.
How is it that console makers are the ones fulfilling the doomsday scenarios people talk about regarding Steam / GoG / etc?
You still own your games on it. You just need to hope to god that your PS3 doesn't break and you have to buy a new one if you want to play the games. So it is basically the same as physical games without the benefit of being able to sell them or give them away.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Unicorns. Tiiiiiny Unicorns.
Nah I know about the Cell processor thing, and that's legit. I mean, the onus should've been on Sony to continue to support it but... well.
God I hate their technology so much.
By the way, anyone thinking this is acceptable business is out of their mind.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Then again, I wonder if people will care more about BC with network stuff since having the physical disk is psychologically reassuring that you've still got the game, plus smartphones have trained people to expect that kind of thing.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
Yeah it was something clearly not given any thought to regarding the long-term future, and guess who pays the price?
I know it's not as simple for exclusives or digital ps3 games
But they'd make less money that way.