They had to make a clean break at some point. I mean, if they continue to support Cell that would annoy developers and more importantly, drive up costs which would again lead to a lot of bitching on these boards.
Not necessarily. Continued support for the Cell could be in the legacy aspect, as in devs wouldn't have to use it for PS4 titles, it would just be there for the previously existing content. But then you run into the other problem you mentioned - cost.
How difficult would it be for developers to convert games over from the Cell architecture to x86?
Personally I love BC, but it's really not a big enough factor for most companies to mess with. When Sony removed BC from the PS3, sales actually went up.
Then again, I wonder if people will care more about BC with network stuff since having the physical disk is psychologically reassuring that you've still got the game, plus smartphones have trained people to expect that kind of thing.
From what I can tell, PS2 BC was totally gone by Fall 2007. But there was also a price drop in July 2007. I think one of those might be more important for helping sales go up.
PS3 Uses the cell processor, it sucks and makes games hard to develop for, they should change that. Oh PS4 doesnt use cell processor? What the fuck sony, now we can't play the games except for the system we bought them on? Bullshit!
Yeah it was something clearly not given any thought to regarding the long-term future, and guess who pays the price?
No the cell processor was very clearly designed for the future in mind.
The problem is just like all of Sony's other proprietary tech, it failed miserably.
The only real people to get "burned" though are the tiny minority of people who even care about BC, and even those people are just likely to keep their old consoles if they're that upset about it.
The vast majority of people will just sell off all their old hardware to put a dent in the cost of the new. I can't be bothered with going back to play old games when there's newer and better things constantly released. If you think people outside of PA or GAF or any other forum will be outraged you're living in a bubble.
Sometimes I wonder if it's not the opposite, if you'll only find anti-BC apologists on forums, because in the real world people like to save money and upgrade while retaining everything they purchased previously.
In reality there's a lot that goes into any console purchase - maybe Vita sells poorly for every reason except BC, maybe 360 sold well despite BC being very important to the average consumer. Honestly we have nothing to help us understand its significance one way or the other. Anecdotes are worthless. Logic isn't helpful because of the number of variables. I don't think it's feasible to say that anyone's living in a bubble because they think one way or the other.
BC is a feature that is strong in pulling in early adopters, but becomes less of an issue one or two years in. That's why MS and Sony both offered BC in some form in the beginning, before dropping or removing the efforts later. There are probably far more PS3 owners out there without BC-compatible PS3, for example.
In other news, an article on things that Sony promised with the PS3 and where those promises ended up.
“Our next video is a small sampling of new games and future franchises being born on PS3.” — Kaz Hirai introducing a demo reel at Sony’s E3 2005 PS3 reveal.
Rewatching the 2005 and 2006 press conferences in which Sony debuted the PS3 is still amazing today. The games they show off still look incredible even by 2013 standards. The problem is that many of them don’t exist.
Of the games that Sony showed, many — Ni-Oh, Eyedentity, Fifth Phantom Saga, Killing Day, Eight Days — never made it to store shelves. And some others changed considerably before release, like Resistance: Fall of Man. Sony also spent a bafflingly long time talking up Gran Turismo 4, which wouldn’t be released for four and a half years.
This is what Game|Life’s editor was talking about when he said game companies are addicted to using vaporware to build hype.
They had to make a clean break at some point. I mean, if they continue to support Cell that would annoy developers and more importantly, drive up costs which would again lead to a lot of bitching on these boards.
Not necessarily. Continued support for the Cell could be in the legacy aspect, as in devs wouldn't have to use it for PS4 titles, it would just be there for the previously existing content. But then you run into the other problem you mentioned - cost.
How difficult would it be for developers to convert games over from the Cell architecture to x86?
It would probably be easier to port a PC game to work on the PS4 since those are both using x86 architecture.
Do people just think that PSN games were developed for some x86 chip hidden in the PS3 or what?
While I can see that - I think the problem is that many, many PSN games are not only PSN games - they were released on 360 or Steam as well. While I get that you can't guarantee you'll bring them all over, it would be nice if they could simply bring over what they can do with minimal work and make them available. It's hard for people to accept "You bought the PSN version of Castle Crashers but you can't play it on the PS4 because it doesn't have a Cell processor".
Not to mention the fact Cell was discontinued a couple of years ago.
Wait what. How have they been producing their latest PS3 units? Are they just sitting on a ton of them still?
Well, discontinued for use in anything besides the PS3. IBM built Cell to be used in all kinds of stuff (medical devices spring to mind), but other than the PS3 it never took off.
Not to mention the fact Cell was discontinued a couple of years ago.
Wait what. How have they been producing their latest PS3 units? Are they just sitting on a ton of them still?
Well, discontinued for use in anything besides the PS3. IBM built Cell to be used in all kinds of stuff (medical devices spring to mind), but other than the PS3 it never took off.
It's just another wrinkle for BC.
Meanwhile the medical field is using Kinect for some applications.
Not to mention the fact Cell was discontinued a couple of years ago.
Wait what. How have they been producing their latest PS3 units? Are they just sitting on a ton of them still?
Well, discontinued for use in anything besides the PS3. IBM built Cell to be used in all kinds of stuff (medical devices spring to mind), but other than the PS3 it never took off.
It's just another wrinkle for BC.
Meanwhile the medical field is using Kinect for some applications.
Oh god I hope not surgery
"Okay, now I just need to make a small incision in the nose and oh god I've ruptured his liver"
Bro-gamers only play the current iteration of COD or Madden, so they can jump to the new system whenever the next COD and Madden is released on it.
And casuals will keep playing angry birds on iphones and promising to get the wii and the fitness board from the basement and start exercising again.
My tone is facetious, but that's probably more or less how things go.
Agreed - when I heard "you can use it to pinch-to-zoom, or to scroll or move a cursor," the touchpad made more sense to me. But yeah, please keep its use limited in games.
I'll repeat what I said last night. I don't think they're near ready. They just wanted to beat Microsoft to the punch. We'll see what happens but E3 is gonna be very interesting for everyone.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Agreed - when I heard "you can use it to pinch-to-zoom, or to scroll or move a cursor," the touchpad made more sense to me. But yeah, please keep its use limited in games.
One thing I'll give Sony is that I'm pretty sure they don't hold a gun to developers' heads to use every feature available to them, like Nintendo does. So when we see use of it I think it'll be very conservative.
Bro-gamers only play the current iteration of COD or Madden, so they can jump to the new system whenever the next COD and Madden is released on it.
And casuals will keep playing angry birds on iphones and promising to get the wii and the fitness board from the basement and start exercising again.
My tone is facetious, but that's probably more or less how things go.
Yeah, I said as much in the industry thread. Expect 2013 to be a soft launch, but expect pickup to increase in the second half of 2014 when Madden, Call of Duty, FIFA, Assassin's Creed, and the other annual franchises start making their presence really felt on next-gen consoles.
I'll repeat what I said last night. I don't think they're near ready. They just wanted to beat Microsoft to the punch. We'll see what happens but E3 is gonna be very interesting for everyone.
Of course they're not ready, it's not coming out for at least 8 months
Bro-gamers only play the current iteration of COD or Madden, so they can jump to the new system whenever the next COD and Madden is released on it.
And casuals will keep playing angry birds on iphones and promising to get the wii and the fitness board from the basement and start exercising again.
My tone is facetious, but that's probably more or less how things go.
Yeah, I said as much in the industry thread. Expect 2013 to be a soft launch, but expect pickup to increase in the second half of 2014 when Madden, Call of Duty, FIFA, Assassin's Creed, and the other annual franchises start making their presence really felt on next-gen consoles.
So, according to Driveclub's Facebook, that is a legit, undoctored screenshot from an early version of the game. So pretty.
yes but.... only the largest car nerds wanted a fully rendered buckling up simulator with fabric particles that respond to touch.
That cant be a large percentage of total gamers...
I am not a car nerd by any means, but I enjoy racing wheels and the games that I can use them on. Just because they used it to show off what the PS4 is capable of doesn't mean it isn't going to be a good racer--Motorstorm RC was amazing thanks to its asynch social features, and they've said that that was a test run for social aspect of Driveclub. That is what I'm excited for.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I'll repeat what I said last night. I don't think they're near ready. They just wanted to beat Microsoft to the punch. We'll see what happens but E3 is gonna be very interesting for everyone.
Well, whether the PS4 is seen as good or bad, I think Microsoft has it relatively easy. They just have to stay the course with their current business model. Build it still, but no drastic changes or additions. They've actually kinda got it easy because Sony set the bar high to the point of people second-guessing and Nintendo set the bar low. The one mistake MS can make is if they push Windows 8 integration heavy-handedly. That would be a goddamn disaster.
MS needs to figure out how to sell to Europe and Japan, two huge areas where Sony still rules.
I mean they're neck and neck sales wise throughout the world, almost 80 million apiece. But hardly any of that total for MS comes from Japan which is nuts.
Bro-gamers only play the current iteration of COD or Madden, so they can jump to the new system whenever the next COD and Madden is released on it.
And casuals will keep playing angry birds on iphones and promising to get the wii and the fitness board from the basement and start exercising again.
My tone is facetious, but that's probably more or less how things go.
Yeah, I said as much in the industry thread. Expect 2013 to be a soft launch, but expect pickup to increase in the second half of 2014 when Madden, Call of Duty, FIFA, Assassin's Creed, and the other annual franchises start making their presence really felt on next-gen consoles.
I'll repeat what I said last night. I don't think they're near ready. They just wanted to beat Microsoft to the punch. We'll see what happens but E3 is gonna be very interesting for everyone.
Of course they're not ready, it's not coming out for at least 8 months
Legit question then- What are we looking at for launch window then? They showed us rendered video and only like 3 actual games one being that puppet thing that in no way controls as well as what the showed us, 1 being knack (katamari robots yo) and bland shooter scripted environment: the game.
You can ignore the snark. Im tired. I'm even down on what they showed of watch dawgs. But legit-ly- 8 months is a long time to prep up what was shown and get it pretty awesome right?
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
I'll repeat what I said last night. I don't think they're near ready. They just wanted to beat Microsoft to the punch. We'll see what happens but E3 is gonna be very interesting for everyone.
Of course they're not ready, it's not coming out for at least 8 months
Legit question then- What are we looking at for launch window then? They showed us rendered video and only like 3 actual games one being that puppet thing that in no way controls as well as what the showed us, 1 being knack (katamari robots yo) and bland shooter scripted environment: the game.
You can ignore the snark. Im tired. I'm even down on what they showed of watch dawgs. But legit-ly- 8 months is a long time to prep up what was shown and get it pretty awesome right?
So, according to Driveclub's Facebook, that is a legit, undoctored screenshot from an early version of the game. So pretty.
Pig disgusting road texture
Anyways, anyone else find it odd that the opening talking was like "Remember when games were fun and easy to use? Well not anymore!" I just want the games. The fact that nearly everything announced was multi platform or also being released on PS3 doesn't show a lot of confidence in their product. Its pretty weird to announce the NEXT BIG THING and have it also come out on PS3 and Wii U. I think console companies have to accept that they're getting a smaller audience than their shareholders would like to think. The Wii's huge success across demographics was a fluke, I mean, Nintendo certainly intended to take that step, but the margin of success was due to a perfect mix of conditions that allowed it to light the world on fire.
So, according to Driveclub's Facebook, that is a legit, undoctored screenshot from an early version of the game. So pretty.
Pig disgusting road texture
Anyways, anyone else find it odd that the opening talking was like "Remember when games were fun and easy to use? Well not anymore!" I just want the games. The fact that nearly everything announced was multi platform or also being released on PS3 doesn't show a lot of confidence in their product. Its pretty weird to announce the NEXT BIG THING and have it also come out on PS3 and Wii U. I think console companies have to accept that they're getting a smaller audience than their shareholders would like to think. The Wii's huge success across demographics was a fluke, I mean, Nintendo certainly intended to take that step, but the margin of success was due to a perfect mix of conditions that allowed it to light the world on fire.
Road texture in racing games is always fairly low quality because you rarely ever see the actual road texture due to the whole fast driving thing
So, according to Driveclub's Facebook, that is a legit, undoctored screenshot from an early version of the game. So pretty.
yes but.... only the largest car nerds wanted a fully rendered buckling up simulator with fabric particles that respond to touch.
That cant be a large percentage of total gamers...
To be fair, people just don't know that they want that yet. This will enlighten them.
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
The real question will be (as it always is) what are we looking at for launch titles. Not launch window, but actual, on-the-shelf (either physically or digitally), day-1 purchaseable titles. That's an area that nearly all consoles have varied wildly on in one form or another, from the anemic PS2 launch to the why-can't-I-hold-all-these-games Dreamcast launch.
If Sony can make something like GTAV, Watch Dogs, (insert popular FPS here), (insert popular sports title here), available day one, systems will move and move quickly.
Well, the Ubisoft guy said Watchdogs would be out this holiday, so, I'd say that's likely confirmed as a PS4 launch title. Diablo 3, obviously. Hopefully Destiny.
I'd be pretty happy with the launch with just Watchdogs and Destiny, honestly.
Origin for Dragon Age: Inquisition Shenanigans: Inksplat776
I'm just happy with the Facebook integration. That way if I'm playing the latest Ratchet & Clank and run out of ammo I can go ask my friends to come help tend my bullet making factory. Oh and I just need 4 more friends to tend my pit crew and give me better tires on Drive Club.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
When you guys are talking about PSN titles no longer being supported, you just mean PS3 titles, right? Why would PSone Classics suddenly be invalid? They're emulated on the PS3 in the first place.
Posts
Not necessarily. Continued support for the Cell could be in the legacy aspect, as in devs wouldn't have to use it for PS4 titles, it would just be there for the previously existing content. But then you run into the other problem you mentioned - cost.
How difficult would it be for developers to convert games over from the Cell architecture to x86?
From what I can tell, PS2 BC was totally gone by Fall 2007. But there was also a price drop in July 2007. I think one of those might be more important for helping sales go up.
No the cell processor was very clearly designed for the future in mind.
The problem is just like all of Sony's other proprietary tech, it failed miserably.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
BC is a feature that is strong in pulling in early adopters, but becomes less of an issue one or two years in. That's why MS and Sony both offered BC in some form in the beginning, before dropping or removing the efforts later. There are probably far more PS3 owners out there without BC-compatible PS3, for example.
In other news, an article on things that Sony promised with the PS3 and where those promises ended up.
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/02/sony-ps3-promises/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
It would probably be easier to port a PC game to work on the PS4 since those are both using x86 architecture.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Wait what. How have they been producing their latest PS3 units? Are they just sitting on a ton of them still?
While I can see that - I think the problem is that many, many PSN games are not only PSN games - they were released on 360 or Steam as well. While I get that you can't guarantee you'll bring them all over, it would be nice if they could simply bring over what they can do with minimal work and make them available. It's hard for people to accept "You bought the PSN version of Castle Crashers but you can't play it on the PS4 because it doesn't have a Cell processor".
Well, discontinued for use in anything besides the PS3. IBM built Cell to be used in all kinds of stuff (medical devices spring to mind), but other than the PS3 it never took off.
It's just another wrinkle for BC.
I still think that will be a major step forward when combined with Kinect.
Meanwhile the medical field is using Kinect for some applications.
Oh god I hope not surgery
"Okay, now I just need to make a small incision in the nose and oh god I've ruptured his liver"
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Now how the touchpad actually works, we'll have to wait and see about that.
I just had a terrible vision.
All of the PS4's new features are going to be demonstrated (in practical manner) using Home, at E3.
I thought everyone freakin' hated laptop touchpads. If it's tiny and it's not a screen, it's generally a headache.
I guess pinch zoom and twist rotate would work well. Hopefully no swipe to do an uppercut or anything.
And casuals will keep playing angry birds on iphones and promising to get the wii and the fitness board from the basement and start exercising again.
My tone is facetious, but that's probably more or less how things go.
So, according to Driveclub's Facebook, that is a legit, undoctored screenshot from an early version of the game. So pretty.
One thing I'll give Sony is that I'm pretty sure they don't hold a gun to developers' heads to use every feature available to them, like Nintendo does. So when we see use of it I think it'll be very conservative.
Yeah, I said as much in the industry thread. Expect 2013 to be a soft launch, but expect pickup to increase in the second half of 2014 when Madden, Call of Duty, FIFA, Assassin's Creed, and the other annual franchises start making their presence really felt on next-gen consoles.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
yes but.... only the largest car nerds wanted a fully rendered buckling up simulator with fabric particles that respond to touch.
That cant be a large percentage of total gamers...
Of course they're not ready, it's not coming out for at least 8 months
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
You mean like every console ever?
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I am not a car nerd by any means, but I enjoy racing wheels and the games that I can use them on. Just because they used it to show off what the PS4 is capable of doesn't mean it isn't going to be a good racer--Motorstorm RC was amazing thanks to its asynch social features, and they've said that that was a test run for social aspect of Driveclub. That is what I'm excited for.
Well, whether the PS4 is seen as good or bad, I think Microsoft has it relatively easy. They just have to stay the course with their current business model. Build it still, but no drastic changes or additions. They've actually kinda got it easy because Sony set the bar high to the point of people second-guessing and Nintendo set the bar low. The one mistake MS can make is if they push Windows 8 integration heavy-handedly. That would be a goddamn disaster.
I mean they're neck and neck sales wise throughout the world, almost 80 million apiece. But hardly any of that total for MS comes from Japan which is nuts.
Indeed.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Legit question then- What are we looking at for launch window then? They showed us rendered video and only like 3 actual games one being that puppet thing that in no way controls as well as what the showed us, 1 being knack (katamari robots yo) and bland shooter scripted environment: the game.
You can ignore the snark. Im tired. I'm even down on what they showed of watch dawgs. But legit-ly- 8 months is a long time to prep up what was shown and get it pretty awesome right?
October to December
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Pig disgusting road texture
Anyways, anyone else find it odd that the opening talking was like "Remember when games were fun and easy to use? Well not anymore!" I just want the games. The fact that nearly everything announced was multi platform or also being released on PS3 doesn't show a lot of confidence in their product. Its pretty weird to announce the NEXT BIG THING and have it also come out on PS3 and Wii U. I think console companies have to accept that they're getting a smaller audience than their shareholders would like to think. The Wii's huge success across demographics was a fluke, I mean, Nintendo certainly intended to take that step, but the margin of success was due to a perfect mix of conditions that allowed it to light the world on fire.
Road texture in racing games is always fairly low quality because you rarely ever see the actual road texture due to the whole fast driving thing
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
To be fair, people just don't know that they want that yet. This will enlighten them.
If Sony can make something like GTAV, Watch Dogs, (insert popular FPS here), (insert popular sports title here), available day one, systems will move and move quickly.
I'd be pretty happy with the launch with just Watchdogs and Destiny, honestly.