That's the thing, there's really not much in the way of profit to begin with. We're talking about a feature that costs money to implement, but is mostly used for the purpose of not buying games. Or at least, not buying new games. Their current setup shifts the costs of making games compatible to the developers of HD "re-makes", allowing Sony to just sit back and collect money.
Plus, the success of the 360 has shown that you can succeed in the market without decent BC, so why waste money on it?
Isn't that assuming no one will buy PS2 games...no matter what? If anything, the feature that, if implemented properly (or at least not half-assed) has the purpose of making people buy games which they otherwise would not. A used game sale means nothing to Sony. A digital PS2 game purchase is a profit that goes entirely to Sony. No possibility of resale or trade, and an infinite supply only limited by the capabilities of Sony's server architecture (then again, that's been called into question a couple times...) Even now, the demand for PS2 games has not vanished despite the winning combination of no-BC and an advertising campaign that insists now the PS3 does everything. It's a testament to the success of the PS2 and its huge library that it dominates used game sales for the last generation.
It probably does cost a lot of money. But frankly, PSN seems like it costs a lot of money to regardless of the PS2 library, between a catastrophic outage and the slow need to adopt more and more features that characterizes a major unified online service. It's possible that the very small fraction of overall PS2 games on the PS3 are in fact breaking the bank. It's also possible that it's a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the costs PSN entails. Given the huge market for used PS2 games, it seems odd that Sony couldn't make a profit from it--especially since they literally eliminated used PS2 game market on PS3s after a very early generation.
Of course, from the standpoint of the customer, some backwards compatibility is actually infinitely better than no backwards compatibility. No question.
Really, maybe only a tiny group of people care about PS2 games. And they've all already about 4 PS2s anyway. That certainly seems like Sony's thinking. *shrug*
I'm really not sure what you're talking about here. Between the HD ports and PS2 Classics line, most of the high profile PS2 games are already accounted for and they're continually adding to that list.
In regards to costs, I don't think you're being realistic. Sony doesn't just rip a disc and throw it up on the PSN, they have to go through a lot of work checking whether there are any legal issues and then making sure it actually runs properly on the emulator. Fail one of those and say goodbye to that game (this is what happened to Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2). Then when they release them, they get what, $1 from each sale unless it's a first party game? And that's not even taking into account the fact that they then have to re-test the entire library when they bring out a new system (like they did with the PSP and PS1 games on the Vita). I can easily see why they might not think that it's worth throwing a ton of resources into it.
I don't think you can really call it a huge market. If there was still a really high demand for PS2 games, Gamestop wouldn't be ending PS2 trade-ins next month, there wouldn't be so many Gamestops around the country that stopped selling PS2 games altogether. It's apparent that there's a lot more money to be made from porting those PS2 games to newer systems and actually improving them in the process.
Personally, I would rather have Metal Gear Solid 3 in the HD Collection, running in HD and widescreen, with cloud save support and trophies than popping in the old PS2 disc, playing it in 480i.
I don't think you can really call it a huge market. If there was still a really high demand for PS2 games, Gamestop wouldn't be ending PS2 trade-ins next month, there wouldn't be so many Gamestops around the country that stopped selling PS2 games altogether. It's apparent that there's a lot more money to be made from porting those PS2 games to newer systems and actually improving them in the process.
Personally, I would rather have Metal Gear Solid 3 in the HD Collection, running in HD and widescreen, with cloud save support and trophies than popping in the old PS2 disc, playing it in 480i.
It's certainly stronger than the market for any other used games--if it's shrinking, that's definitely something to consider, but it's still heads and shoulders above anything else. Then again, the used PC market has ceased to exist for years, so it's not as though there's a broad market nowadays.
Remakes have their own advantages--there have been a lot of great re-releases and a lot of mediocre ones--but if we're talking expenses, that's literally the most expensive way to entice a customer to purchase the same experience again, with the hope that you can charge the most.
Edit: And what PS2 game on PSN costs $1? Man, they must have really changed the prices around, because it was more like $10+ last time I checked. Then again, I originally thought it was a squandered opportunity back when the PS3 was still suffering from a weaker library. It's definitely been a missed opportunity.
Plllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease put up SSX 3, Burnout 3, Spider-Man 2 and Hulk: Ultimate Destruction on PSN. No announcement this e3 could make me happier than finally being able to play these games.
More cool details from Edge interview with Scott Kirkland. I don't think we had any confirmation of this sort of Live Streaming feature, just that you could share stuff. I could be wrong though.
Scott Kirkland: It’s awesome. I mean, the controller has a Share button on it. You hit the Share button, if you’ve configured your streaming service connection, then the stream is out there. I don’t think there have been any announcements about the kind of partner services who’ll be providing that, but in development we have simple tools, the service runs on my desktop PC, I hit the Share button on my devkit and I can just see what’s going on in my devkit through a web browser window. That’s brilliant. You get the output from the camera as well so you can see your friends’ reactions to your overtaking manoeuvres or spectacular crashes
Plllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease put up SSX 3, Burnout 3, Spider-Man 2 and Hulk: Ultimate Destruction on PSN. No announcement this e3 could make me happier than finally being able to play these games.
I...don't think that's in the cards. For a very great number of reasons, unfortunately.
It's certainly stronger than the market for any other used games--if it's shrinking, that's definitely something to consider, but it's still heads and shoulders above anything else.
Head and shoulders above anything else released before the 360. It's certainly incredible that the PS2 stayed relevant for as long as it did, but overall demand for is pretty small. Go into any Gamestop, if they have PS2 games at all, they're probably all shoved in a long cardboard box without their original cases because they just aren't worth the space anymore. They're probably buy 2 get 1 free.
And what PS2 game on PSN costs $1? Man, they must have really changed the prices around, because it was more like $10+ last time I checked.
When you buy a game on PSN for $10, Sony doesn't get to keep all of it. If it's a third party game, Sony just keeps a small cut, which is apparently about a dollar. This is actually another reason not to bother with hardware BC. I recall hearing that the hardware in the PS3 required for PS2 BC was costing Sony around $50 per unit. Now if Sony is making as little as $1 for every PS2 Classic sold on PSN, what are the odds that the average user would buy enough games to make up for that hardware cost?
Edit: And what PS2 game on PSN costs $1? Man, they must have really changed the prices around, because it was more like $10+ last time I checked. Then again, I originally thought it was a squandered opportunity back when the PS3 was still suffering from a weaker library. It's definitely been a missed opportunity.
Sony doesn't own all those games, so they're only getting their 20% cut from them (so $1-3 depending on the game and format).
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
You guys are all talking like Sony doesn't put anywhere from two to five PS2 games up on PSN every month. Well, they do, so clearly, they see money in it. Not to mention it enables developers to generate revenue from the content they've produced over the last 15 years.
SSX On Tour is already on Euro PSN. SCEA seems to be quite a bit slower than the European division when it comes to PS2 classics.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
You guys are all talking like Sony doesn't put anywhere from two to five PS2 games up on PSN every month. Well, they do, so clearly, they see money in it. Not to mention it enables developers to generate revenue from the content they've produced over the last 15 years.
SSX On Tour is already on Euro PSN. SCEA seems to be quite a bit slower than the European division when it comes to PS2 classics.
From what I can tell, Synthesis wants:
A) Sony to have kept the PS2 hardware in the PS3 from the very beginning and start releasing these PS2 Classics way back then.
b) Hundreds of PS2 games on the PSN, not just 2-5 new ones each month.
A ignores the situation Sony was in back then, when the PS3 wasn't doing so well thanks to its price and the PS2 hardware was the most expendable piece of tech in the system to make it more competitive. While B would require Sony to rapidly expand their PS1/PS2 pipeline, which would cost a ton of money.
Plllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease put up SSX 3, Burnout 3, Spider-Man 2 and Hulk: Ultimate Destruction on PSN. No announcement this e3 could make me happier than finally being able to play these games.
I...don't think that's in the cards. For a very great number of reasons, unfortunately.
As PS2 classics, I meant. I mean, they have some pretty random games up there. God Hand but no other Clover Studios game, though thankfully Okami got an HD version. SSX On Tour but not Tricky or SSX 3. So if they could get even one of those games up as a PS2 classic, I'd be really happy. Of course, it doesn't warrant an e3 announcement, I was just exaggerating.
+1
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
edited May 2013
Well, I'll let Synthesis speak for himself.
One thing I notice when people, including developers, talk about this stuff is that they neglect that the passage of time means individuals shift demographics. SSX3 came out a full ten years ago. Today's typical teenagers have little to no recollection of it. Put it up on PSN, whether as an HD remaster or PS2 classic, and as far as they're concerned, it's just another PSN game.
I hope they continue the route they're on. I'd like to have more gaming choices available when I buy a console, not fewer. Frankly, if the library were bigger, I would never have bought Soul Calibur V and would have just download SC1 or 3 instead.
But maybe that's what they're worried about. Maybe big publishers are worried that if they have to compete with the past, it will be harder for their new releases to stand out. I mean really, why should Namco even keep making new Soul Calibur games at all if they can (and should) put I-V up on PSN?
fearsomepirate on
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
You guys are all talking like Sony doesn't put anywhere from two to five PS2 games up on PSN every month. Well, they do, so clearly, they see money in it. Not to mention it enables developers to generate revenue from the content they've produced over the last 15 years.
SSX On Tour is already on Euro PSN. SCEA seems to be quite a bit slower than the European division when it comes to PS2 classics.
From what I can tell, Synthesis wants:
A) Sony to have kept the PS2 hardware in the PS3 from the very beginning and start releasing these PS2 Classics way back then.
b) Hundreds of PS2 games on the PSN, not just 2-5 new ones each month.
A ignores the situation Sony was in back then, when the PS3 wasn't doing so well thanks to its price and the PS2 hardware was the most expendable piece of tech in the system to make it more competitive. While B would require Sony to rapidly expand their PS1/PS2 pipeline, which would cost a ton of money.
Honestly, if it's 2 to 5 new titles a month, that's still way better a situation than I thought it was. Even looking at the recent release, that seems like a bit of a stretch.
From the consumer standpoint, it sucks as an option compared to software backwards compatibility for every obvious reasons. But it makes fine sense for Sony as a business decision--it's just followed by another unfortunate decision for consumers, a failure to do the huge PS2 library justice online. The Playstation 1 is a nonissue, hence why I didn't mention it. Kindles and smartphones have near perfect PS1 emulation. Play it on anything else, including hacked Xbox 360s (not condoning it, but demonstrating how prolific it is).
"It only does everything," was a funny slogan at the time. Sony, you rascals.
0
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
edited May 2013
From a consumer standpoint, it sucks that the PS3 can't be upgraded to a PS4 by rubbing a piece of ham on it.
fearsomepirate on
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
From a consumer standpoint, it sucks that the PS3 can't be upgraded to a PS4 by rubbing a piece of ham on it.
You can totally upgrade it if you buy ten Sixaxis controllers, then spend twelve hours playing the Loco Roco PS3 game, getting exactly five Platinum trophies, then bring all your controllers to your nearest Gamestop and enter the Konami Code backwards. Bam, Leo is in your party and Aeris is alive again!
Man, I have a really weird level of nervous excitement about this console. It seems like for the first time in ages Sony is firing on all cylinders for this release. Nothing's being used to push a new media/memory format, it all seems like it's just there to help make development as easy as possible. I keep waiting for some kind of bomb to drop, but all the interviews sound so good.
This may sound contradictory, as I've been using the PS3 more than any other console in the last few months, but I think once you look back at the system, the PS3 was an overall failure.
Of course, there were quite a number of excellent games exclusive to the system, like Uncharted, Valkyria Chronicles, MGS4 and so on. But if you compare it to the PS2 and its near-countless amount of top tier titles, it's hard not to spot the massive downward slope that plagued the PS3 since launch.
I personally attribute this to Japan's decline in quality console software. Think back to your PS2 library: I believe it's safe to say more than half of your favorite titles came from a Japanese studio. Think of all the long-running franchises that got more than two excellent sequels on the PS2, yet barely scraped one game on the PS3, or none at all.
Big name titles like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill and Resident Evil all had PS3 games ranging from mediocre to abysmal, while countless other franchises like Onimusha, ZOE, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, and Ueda's one-offs never even saw the light of day.
Is it presumptuous to blame the PS3 for the decline of Japanese games? Probably. But when you consider the fact that the system was a monster to develop games for, and how companies like Capcom and Square attempted to (unsuccessfully) inject their franchises with Western-influenced mechanics to justify the rising costs of development, I don't think it's crazy to think the PS3 contributed to this sorry state of affairs in some way. Certainly these companies were counting on Sony's new machine to follow in the footsteps of the PS2...why else would Square get the crazy notion of announcing three Final Fantasy games for the system before it was even released?
Point being, the most important and most encouraging thing coming out of the PS4 talks is the promise that the new system will be significantly easier to develop games for. It's a simple enough notion to grasp: if games are easier to make, then companies should make more games. Or at the very least, make games that run the best they can, so we don't have to suffer so much from technical issues requiring constant patches.
I won't be naive enough to think that things can go back to the PS2 days, where nearly every single notable non-Nintendo franchise was under one console. But as it stands, Sony is in the right position to at least attempt this: they are extensively working with third parties in learning how to use PS4 dev kits as well as Indie developers, and if rumors prove true they're even funding/assisting in the development of the long delayed Final Fantasy Versus XIII. With the promise of easier development as well as continued tutelage from Sony, it's hard for third parties to turn down such an offer, especially since few of them care to approach the Wii U at this time, and the Xbox will never make a notable presence in Japan (you'll likely still see Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Street Fighter on the new Xbox, but anything below those tier titles seems highly unlikely).
Again, this could just be Sony PR spinning a big yarn and the system is still a pain in the ass for developers to get a handle on. But as it stands, they are making a convincing argument to the contrary, and they are also in the best position out of the three consoles to get back much of that lost Japanese support. We will doubtlessly get our fair share of excellent Western games from Naughty Dog, Rockstar and the like.
I just want to have the best of both worlds again.
This may sound contradictory, as I've been using the PS3 more than any other console in the last few months, but I think once you look back at the system, the PS3 was an overall failure.
Of course, there were quite a number of excellent games exclusive to the system, like Uncharted, Valkyria Chronicles, MGS4 and so on. But if you compare it to the PS2 and its near-countless amount of top tier titles, it's hard not to spot the massive downward slope that plagued the PS3 since launch.
I personally attribute this to Japan's decline in quality console software. Think back to your PS2 library: I believe it's safe to say more than half of your favorite titles came from a Japanese studio. Think of all the long-running franchises that got more than two excellent sequels on the PS2, yet barely scraped one game on the PS3, or none at all.
Big name titles like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill and Resident Evil all had PS3 games ranging from mediocre to abysmal, while countless other franchises like Onimusha, ZOE, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, and Ueda's one-offs never even saw the light of day.
Is it presumptuous to blame the PS3 for the decline of Japanese games? Probably. But when you consider the fact that the system was a monster to develop games for, and how companies like Capcom and Square attempted to (unsuccessfully) inject their franchises with Western-influenced mechanics to justify the rising costs of development, I don't think it's crazy to think the PS3 contributed to this sorry state of affairs in some way. Certainly these companies were counting on Sony's new machine to follow in the footsteps of the PS2...why else would Square get the crazy notion of announcing three Final Fantasy games for the system before it was even released?
Point being, the most important and most encouraging thing coming out of the PS4 talks is the promise that the new system will be significantly easier to develop games for. It's a simple enough notion to grasp: if games are easier to make, then companies should make more games. Or at the very least, make games that run the best they can, so we don't have to suffer so much from technical issues requiring constant patches.
I won't be naive enough to think that things can go back to the PS2 days, where nearly every single notable non-Nintendo franchise was under one console. But as it stands, Sony is in the right position to at least attempt this: they are extensively working with third parties in learning how to use PS4 dev kits as well as Indie developers, and if rumors prove true they're even funding/assisting in the development of the long delayed Final Fantasy Versus XIII. With the promise of easier development as well as continued tutelage from Sony, it's hard for third parties to turn down such an offer, especially since few of them care to approach the Wii U at this time, and the Xbox will never make a notable presence in Japan (you'll likely still see Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Street Fighter on the new Xbox, but anything below those tier titles seems highly unlikely).
Again, this could just be Sony PR spinning a big yarn and the system is still a pain in the ass for developers to get a handle on. But as it stands, they are making a convincing argument to the contrary, and they are also in the best position out of the three consoles to get back much of that lost Japanese support. We will doubtlessly get our fair share of excellent Western games from Naughty Dog, Rockstar and the like.
I just want to have the best of both worlds again.
Is that not the case? Other than Halo I'm having a hard time coming up with xbox exclusives. There aren't really any of those anymore other than first party stuff. What am I missing?
There's a pretty significant list. Plus you've got timed exclusives (especially with regards to DLC) as well as a few years where multiplatform games ran better on the 360 because the developers/publishers didn't have good multiplatform tools for the Cell architecture
Gears of War, Call of Duty (might as well be exclusive, nobody plays it on anything but Xbox)....Rare?
I'm pretty sure they're going to have all sorts of new IPs, but they will all most likely be Western-developed. I really doubt we'll ever see anything that isn't Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or a fighting game on that system from the Japanese side.
Unless the Wii U does a massive turnaround in sales or the PS4 is a technological dud, Sony has the best opportunity right now to win back all those third parties.
I also want to think that the big emphasis on Indie games also means that third parties will be willing to work on smaller-scale projects to cater to their fanbase. Disgaea, for example, doesn't have to be a $60 disc game. Make it a digital title that can be sold under the Indie category. If the Indie selection becomes profitable, then we may see more titles in the vein of Okami, Viewtiful Joe, a 2D Castlevania, Mega Man, and a bunch of other forgotten franchises companies wouldn't touch due to difficult developer tools and rising costs.
At least that's what I hope Sony's strategy is for all this Indie focus. A balance between fun small-scale games in addition to big budget triple-A titles....yeah, it's a dream, but it's also capable of coming true.
Gears of War, Call of Duty (might as well be exclusive, nobody plays it on anything but Xbox)....Rare?
I'm pretty sure they're going to have all sorts of new IPs, but they will all most likely be Western-developed. I really doubt we'll ever see anything that isn't Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or a fighting game on that system from the Japanese side.
Unless the Wii U does a massive turnaround in sales or the PS4 is a technological dud, Sony has the best opportunity right now to win back all those third parties.
I also want to think that the big emphasis on Indie games also means that third parties will be willing to work on smaller-scale projects to cater to their fanbase. Disgaea, for example, doesn't have to be a $60 disc game. Make it a digital title that can be sold under the Indie category. If the Indie selection becomes profitable, then we may see more titles in the vein of Okami, Viewtiful Joe, a 2D Castlevania, Mega Man, and a bunch of other forgotten franchises companies wouldn't touch due to difficult developer tools and rising costs.
At least that's what I hope Sony's strategy is for all this Indie focus. A balance between fun small-scale games in addition to big budget triple-A titles....yeah, it's a dream, but it's also capable of coming true.
The seven people that I know that actually buy and play Call of Duty every year? PS3. Same for those that play Battlefield. PS3.
I know that's just me, considering the large amount of 360 CoD folk, but it ain't just them playing CoD.
Even if the PS4 is a roaring success, I really don't see that leading to more Japanese games being released stateside. The decline was due partially to Japan's crap economy, partially to Japan falling to the world's second-biggest games market (and not that much ahead of Europe) and partially to portable systems outselling consoles by a large margin in Japan for years now. Based on all that it simply makes more sense for publishers to ensure their big console games have as broad a global appeal as possible, while the more niche, more "Japanese-feeling" games don't get released over here because westerners are increasingly trained to ignore most of what's released that involve anime eyes or non-English words (thanks to the end of the anime boom), and because the really niche Japanese stuff never made it over here in big numbers.
Even if the PS4 is a roaring success, I really don't see that leading to more Japanese games being released stateside. The decline was due partially to Japan's crap economy, partially to Japan falling to the world's second-biggest games market (and not that much ahead of Europe) and partially to portable systems outselling consoles by a large margin in Japan for years now. Based on all that it simply makes more sense for publishers to ensure their big console games have as broad a global appeal as possible, while the more niche, more "Japanese-feeling" games don't get released over here because westerners are increasingly trained to ignore most of what's released that involve anime eyes or non-English words (thanks to the end of the anime boom), and because the really niche Japanese stuff never made it over here in big numbers.
The fact that Japan has technically been in a recession for the last 12 years doesn't help with their domestic market, either.
Gears of War, Call of Duty (might as well be exclusive, nobody plays it on anything but Xbox)....Rare?
I'm pretty sure they're going to have all sorts of new IPs, but they will all most likely be Western-developed. I really doubt we'll ever see anything that isn't Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or a fighting game on that system from the Japanese side.
Unless the Wii U does a massive turnaround in sales or the PS4 is a technological dud, Sony has the best opportunity right now to win back all those third parties.
I also want to think that the big emphasis on Indie games also means that third parties will be willing to work on smaller-scale projects to cater to their fanbase. Disgaea, for example, doesn't have to be a $60 disc game. Make it a digital title that can be sold under the Indie category. If the Indie selection becomes profitable, then we may see more titles in the vein of Okami, Viewtiful Joe, a 2D Castlevania, Mega Man, and a bunch of other forgotten franchises companies wouldn't touch due to difficult developer tools and rising costs.
At least that's what I hope Sony's strategy is for all this Indie focus. A balance between fun small-scale games in addition to big budget triple-A titles....yeah, it's a dream, but it's also capable of coming true.
Microsoft would like to believe that but the sales ratios haven't really backed it up, as they're pretty much the same as other multiplatform titles. Same goes with Sony and Assassin's Creed. Honestly, I think all the exclusive DLC bullshit from both companies has been a complete waste of money. There are games that sell much better on one system than the other (Final Fantasy on PS3, Mass Effect on 360) but that's mostly because their fanbases gravitated to one system before those series even became multiplatform. But no-one's fooled by series that started out multiplatform.
As for the Japanese slump you talked about, that was always going to happen. Their development style worked perfectly fine on a smaller scale (and still does on handhelds) but once this gen hit, it turned into a very costly mess and there were always going to be some growing pains as they adjusted to the more cost effective western approach (re-using engines, assets, tools, etc.). They'll be far better off for it next gen.
Even if the PS4 is a roaring success, I really don't see that leading to more Japanese games being released stateside. The decline was due partially to Japan's crap economy, partially to Japan falling to the world's second-biggest games market (and not that much ahead of Europe) and partially to portable systems outselling consoles by a large margin in Japan for years now. Based on all that it simply makes more sense for publishers to ensure their big console games have as broad a global appeal as possible, while the more niche, more "Japanese-feeling" games don't get released over here because westerners are increasingly trained to ignore most of what's released that involve anime eyes or non-English words (thanks to the end of the anime boom), and because the really niche Japanese stuff never made it over here in big numbers.
The fact that Japan has technically been in a recession for the last 12 years doesn't help with their domestic market, either.
The Yen rate is climbing now too. My COLA (cost of living allowance) is getting smaller and smaller every month. We are expecting to hit 120 yen to the dollar next summer, it is 100 yen to the dollar right now, and was 85 yen to the dollar last year this time. The upshot is my dollar goes a lot farther off base, the bad news is I get less dollars. (I love eating off base, so this is great for me overall.)
Steam: No Safety In Life
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
BC would be really nice. I understand they aren't going to have it.
But when the PS3 came out, it played all your old games. You could put in your old memory cards. You didn't 'lose' anything buy buying it and trading in your old systems. You got a kickass new platform with a blu-ray player! (And to this day, I still use my PS3 more to watch blu ray, Netflix, Hulu, etc, than to play actual games)
If the PS4 isn't going to play any of my games that I haven't finished, well, I'm going to delay buying one (the current economy doesn't help mind you). I already have a blu ray player. If I already have more games than I know what to do with, the PS4 isn't going to play those games, why would I run out and buy one on day 1?
Gears of War, Call of Duty (might as well be exclusive, nobody plays it on anything but Xbox)....Rare?
I'm pretty sure they're going to have all sorts of new IPs, but they will all most likely be Western-developed. I really doubt we'll ever see anything that isn't Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or a fighting game on that system from the Japanese side.
Unless the Wii U does a massive turnaround in sales or the PS4 is a technological dud, Sony has the best opportunity right now to win back all those third parties.
I also want to think that the big emphasis on Indie games also means that third parties will be willing to work on smaller-scale projects to cater to their fanbase. Disgaea, for example, doesn't have to be a $60 disc game. Make it a digital title that can be sold under the Indie category. If the Indie selection becomes profitable, then we may see more titles in the vein of Okami, Viewtiful Joe, a 2D Castlevania, Mega Man, and a bunch of other forgotten franchises companies wouldn't touch due to difficult developer tools and rising costs.
At least that's what I hope Sony's strategy is for all this Indie focus. A balance between fun small-scale games in addition to big budget triple-A titles....yeah, it's a dream, but it's also capable of coming true.
As for the Japanese slump you talked about, that was always going to happen. Their development style worked perfectly fine on a smaller scale (and still does on handhelds) but once this gen hit, it turned into a very costly mess and there were always going to be some growing pains as they adjusted to the more cost effective western approach (re-using engines, assets, tools, etc.). They'll be far better off for it next gen.
Makes sense. I did say it was presumptuous to assume that the PS3 is to blame for the decline in Japanese games.
But if Japan's economy is starting to bounce back up, and if they've got a better handle in making current gen games, then those are another two points in the PS4's favor.
And again, the focus on Indie releases can potentially solve a lot of publishing woes. Instead of the costly process of localizing and releasing a JRPG in the West, why not develop the game to already include multiple language options, put it up digitally and make it a universal download across all territories (with the price adjusted accordingly depending on your region)? By doing this, you would bypass the extra time and waiting going the physical route.
Imagine the next time someone in Japan makes a game along the lines of La-Mulana, Yume Nikki or Cave Story, and it's up the exact moment in all regions. This is what I hope Sony is planning with all this Indie business.
Posts
Isn't that assuming no one will buy PS2 games...no matter what? If anything, the feature that, if implemented properly (or at least not half-assed) has the purpose of making people buy games which they otherwise would not. A used game sale means nothing to Sony. A digital PS2 game purchase is a profit that goes entirely to Sony. No possibility of resale or trade, and an infinite supply only limited by the capabilities of Sony's server architecture (then again, that's been called into question a couple times...) Even now, the demand for PS2 games has not vanished despite the winning combination of no-BC and an advertising campaign that insists now the PS3 does everything. It's a testament to the success of the PS2 and its huge library that it dominates used game sales for the last generation.
It probably does cost a lot of money. But frankly, PSN seems like it costs a lot of money to regardless of the PS2 library, between a catastrophic outage and the slow need to adopt more and more features that characterizes a major unified online service. It's possible that the very small fraction of overall PS2 games on the PS3 are in fact breaking the bank. It's also possible that it's a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the costs PSN entails. Given the huge market for used PS2 games, it seems odd that Sony couldn't make a profit from it--especially since they literally eliminated used PS2 game market on PS3s after a very early generation.
Of course, from the standpoint of the customer, some backwards compatibility is actually infinitely better than no backwards compatibility. No question.
Really, maybe only a tiny group of people care about PS2 games. And they've all already about 4 PS2s anyway. That certainly seems like Sony's thinking. *shrug*
In regards to costs, I don't think you're being realistic. Sony doesn't just rip a disc and throw it up on the PSN, they have to go through a lot of work checking whether there are any legal issues and then making sure it actually runs properly on the emulator. Fail one of those and say goodbye to that game (this is what happened to Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2). Then when they release them, they get what, $1 from each sale unless it's a first party game? And that's not even taking into account the fact that they then have to re-test the entire library when they bring out a new system (like they did with the PSP and PS1 games on the Vita). I can easily see why they might not think that it's worth throwing a ton of resources into it.
I don't think you can really call it a huge market. If there was still a really high demand for PS2 games, Gamestop wouldn't be ending PS2 trade-ins next month, there wouldn't be so many Gamestops around the country that stopped selling PS2 games altogether. It's apparent that there's a lot more money to be made from porting those PS2 games to newer systems and actually improving them in the process.
Personally, I would rather have Metal Gear Solid 3 in the HD Collection, running in HD and widescreen, with cloud save support and trophies than popping in the old PS2 disc, playing it in 480i.
It's certainly stronger than the market for any other used games--if it's shrinking, that's definitely something to consider, but it's still heads and shoulders above anything else. Then again, the used PC market has ceased to exist for years, so it's not as though there's a broad market nowadays.
Remakes have their own advantages--there have been a lot of great re-releases and a lot of mediocre ones--but if we're talking expenses, that's literally the most expensive way to entice a customer to purchase the same experience again, with the hope that you can charge the most.
Edit: And what PS2 game on PSN costs $1? Man, they must have really changed the prices around, because it was more like $10+ last time I checked. Then again, I originally thought it was a squandered opportunity back when the PS3 was still suffering from a weaker library. It's definitely been a missed opportunity.
.
edge-online.com/features/drive-club-the-evolution-racer-nine-years-in-the-making/
I...don't think that's in the cards. For a very great number of reasons, unfortunately.
Head and shoulders above anything else released before the 360. It's certainly incredible that the PS2 stayed relevant for as long as it did, but overall demand for is pretty small. Go into any Gamestop, if they have PS2 games at all, they're probably all shoved in a long cardboard box without their original cases because they just aren't worth the space anymore. They're probably buy 2 get 1 free.
When you buy a game on PSN for $10, Sony doesn't get to keep all of it. If it's a third party game, Sony just keeps a small cut, which is apparently about a dollar. This is actually another reason not to bother with hardware BC. I recall hearing that the hardware in the PS3 required for PS2 BC was costing Sony around $50 per unit. Now if Sony is making as little as $1 for every PS2 Classic sold on PSN, what are the odds that the average user would buy enough games to make up for that hardware cost?
Sony doesn't own all those games, so they're only getting their 20% cut from them (so $1-3 depending on the game and format).
SSX On Tour is already on Euro PSN. SCEA seems to be quite a bit slower than the European division when it comes to PS2 classics.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
From what I can tell, Synthesis wants:
A) Sony to have kept the PS2 hardware in the PS3 from the very beginning and start releasing these PS2 Classics way back then.
b) Hundreds of PS2 games on the PSN, not just 2-5 new ones each month.
A ignores the situation Sony was in back then, when the PS3 wasn't doing so well thanks to its price and the PS2 hardware was the most expendable piece of tech in the system to make it more competitive. While B would require Sony to rapidly expand their PS1/PS2 pipeline, which would cost a ton of money.
As PS2 classics, I meant. I mean, they have some pretty random games up there. God Hand but no other Clover Studios game, though thankfully Okami got an HD version. SSX On Tour but not Tricky or SSX 3. So if they could get even one of those games up as a PS2 classic, I'd be really happy. Of course, it doesn't warrant an e3 announcement, I was just exaggerating.
One thing I notice when people, including developers, talk about this stuff is that they neglect that the passage of time means individuals shift demographics. SSX3 came out a full ten years ago. Today's typical teenagers have little to no recollection of it. Put it up on PSN, whether as an HD remaster or PS2 classic, and as far as they're concerned, it's just another PSN game.
I hope they continue the route they're on. I'd like to have more gaming choices available when I buy a console, not fewer. Frankly, if the library were bigger, I would never have bought Soul Calibur V and would have just download SC1 or 3 instead.
But maybe that's what they're worried about. Maybe big publishers are worried that if they have to compete with the past, it will be harder for their new releases to stand out. I mean really, why should Namco even keep making new Soul Calibur games at all if they can (and should) put I-V up on PSN?
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
One purchase, works on all of your "Playstation Family" devices.
Nintendo has already cocked it up, I want to know if MS will push a version of cross-buy between 360 and their new console.
Honestly, if it's 2 to 5 new titles a month, that's still way better a situation than I thought it was. Even looking at the recent release, that seems like a bit of a stretch.
From the consumer standpoint, it sucks as an option compared to software backwards compatibility for every obvious reasons. But it makes fine sense for Sony as a business decision--it's just followed by another unfortunate decision for consumers, a failure to do the huge PS2 library justice online. The Playstation 1 is a nonissue, hence why I didn't mention it. Kindles and smartphones have near perfect PS1 emulation. Play it on anything else, including hacked Xbox 360s (not condoning it, but demonstrating how prolific it is).
"It only does everything," was a funny slogan at the time. Sony, you rascals.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Gitaroo-Man
What about wrapping it in bacon? Bacon is the universal upgrade material of food.
You can totally upgrade it if you buy ten Sixaxis controllers, then spend twelve hours playing the Loco Roco PS3 game, getting exactly five Platinum trophies, then bring all your controllers to your nearest Gamestop and enter the Konami Code backwards. Bam, Leo is in your party and Aeris is alive again!
Wait, what were we talking about?
Of course, there were quite a number of excellent games exclusive to the system, like Uncharted, Valkyria Chronicles, MGS4 and so on. But if you compare it to the PS2 and its near-countless amount of top tier titles, it's hard not to spot the massive downward slope that plagued the PS3 since launch.
I personally attribute this to Japan's decline in quality console software. Think back to your PS2 library: I believe it's safe to say more than half of your favorite titles came from a Japanese studio. Think of all the long-running franchises that got more than two excellent sequels on the PS2, yet barely scraped one game on the PS3, or none at all.
Big name titles like Final Fantasy, Silent Hill and Resident Evil all had PS3 games ranging from mediocre to abysmal, while countless other franchises like Onimusha, ZOE, Kingdom Hearts, Dragon Quest, and Ueda's one-offs never even saw the light of day.
Is it presumptuous to blame the PS3 for the decline of Japanese games? Probably. But when you consider the fact that the system was a monster to develop games for, and how companies like Capcom and Square attempted to (unsuccessfully) inject their franchises with Western-influenced mechanics to justify the rising costs of development, I don't think it's crazy to think the PS3 contributed to this sorry state of affairs in some way. Certainly these companies were counting on Sony's new machine to follow in the footsteps of the PS2...why else would Square get the crazy notion of announcing three Final Fantasy games for the system before it was even released?
Point being, the most important and most encouraging thing coming out of the PS4 talks is the promise that the new system will be significantly easier to develop games for. It's a simple enough notion to grasp: if games are easier to make, then companies should make more games. Or at the very least, make games that run the best they can, so we don't have to suffer so much from technical issues requiring constant patches.
I won't be naive enough to think that things can go back to the PS2 days, where nearly every single notable non-Nintendo franchise was under one console. But as it stands, Sony is in the right position to at least attempt this: they are extensively working with third parties in learning how to use PS4 dev kits as well as Indie developers, and if rumors prove true they're even funding/assisting in the development of the long delayed Final Fantasy Versus XIII. With the promise of easier development as well as continued tutelage from Sony, it's hard for third parties to turn down such an offer, especially since few of them care to approach the Wii U at this time, and the Xbox will never make a notable presence in Japan (you'll likely still see Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Street Fighter on the new Xbox, but anything below those tier titles seems highly unlikely).
Again, this could just be Sony PR spinning a big yarn and the system is still a pain in the ass for developers to get a handle on. But as it stands, they are making a convincing argument to the contrary, and they are also in the best position out of the three consoles to get back much of that lost Japanese support. We will doubtlessly get our fair share of excellent Western games from Naughty Dog, Rockstar and the like.
I just want to have the best of both worlds again.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Is that not the case? Other than Halo I'm having a hard time coming up with xbox exclusives. There aren't really any of those anymore other than first party stuff. What am I missing?
I'm pretty sure they're going to have all sorts of new IPs, but they will all most likely be Western-developed. I really doubt we'll ever see anything that isn't Final Fantasy, Metal Gear or a fighting game on that system from the Japanese side.
Unless the Wii U does a massive turnaround in sales or the PS4 is a technological dud, Sony has the best opportunity right now to win back all those third parties.
I also want to think that the big emphasis on Indie games also means that third parties will be willing to work on smaller-scale projects to cater to their fanbase. Disgaea, for example, doesn't have to be a $60 disc game. Make it a digital title that can be sold under the Indie category. If the Indie selection becomes profitable, then we may see more titles in the vein of Okami, Viewtiful Joe, a 2D Castlevania, Mega Man, and a bunch of other forgotten franchises companies wouldn't touch due to difficult developer tools and rising costs.
At least that's what I hope Sony's strategy is for all this Indie focus. A balance between fun small-scale games in addition to big budget triple-A titles....yeah, it's a dream, but it's also capable of coming true.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
The seven people that I know that actually buy and play Call of Duty every year? PS3. Same for those that play Battlefield. PS3.
I know that's just me, considering the large amount of 360 CoD folk, but it ain't just them playing CoD.
The fact that Japan has technically been in a recession for the last 12 years doesn't help with their domestic market, either.
yes!
give me that and Gradius V and id be a happy camper.
I'd especially suck if an early batch of PS3s could be upgraded to PS4s via the ham method, wouldn't it?
Microsoft would like to believe that but the sales ratios haven't really backed it up, as they're pretty much the same as other multiplatform titles. Same goes with Sony and Assassin's Creed. Honestly, I think all the exclusive DLC bullshit from both companies has been a complete waste of money. There are games that sell much better on one system than the other (Final Fantasy on PS3, Mass Effect on 360) but that's mostly because their fanbases gravitated to one system before those series even became multiplatform. But no-one's fooled by series that started out multiplatform.
As for the Japanese slump you talked about, that was always going to happen. Their development style worked perfectly fine on a smaller scale (and still does on handhelds) but once this gen hit, it turned into a very costly mess and there were always going to be some growing pains as they adjusted to the more cost effective western approach (re-using engines, assets, tools, etc.). They'll be far better off for it next gen.
The Yen rate is climbing now too. My COLA (cost of living allowance) is getting smaller and smaller every month. We are expecting to hit 120 yen to the dollar next summer, it is 100 yen to the dollar right now, and was 85 yen to the dollar last year this time. The upshot is my dollar goes a lot farther off base, the bad news is I get less dollars. (I love eating off base, so this is great for me overall.)
PSN: Dyvion -- Eternal: Dyvion+9393 -- Genshin Impact: Dyvion
But when the PS3 came out, it played all your old games. You could put in your old memory cards. You didn't 'lose' anything buy buying it and trading in your old systems. You got a kickass new platform with a blu-ray player! (And to this day, I still use my PS3 more to watch blu ray, Netflix, Hulu, etc, than to play actual games)
If the PS4 isn't going to play any of my games that I haven't finished, well, I'm going to delay buying one (the current economy doesn't help mind you). I already have a blu ray player. If I already have more games than I know what to do with, the PS4 isn't going to play those games, why would I run out and buy one on day 1?
PSN: Vorpallion Twitch: Vorpallion
In the grand scheme of things, BC is really rather unimportant. Hopefully we can move on.
Steam: adamjnet
Makes sense. I did say it was presumptuous to assume that the PS3 is to blame for the decline in Japanese games.
But if Japan's economy is starting to bounce back up, and if they've got a better handle in making current gen games, then those are another two points in the PS4's favor.
And again, the focus on Indie releases can potentially solve a lot of publishing woes. Instead of the costly process of localizing and releasing a JRPG in the West, why not develop the game to already include multiple language options, put it up digitally and make it a universal download across all territories (with the price adjusted accordingly depending on your region)? By doing this, you would bypass the extra time and waiting going the physical route.
Imagine the next time someone in Japan makes a game along the lines of La-Mulana, Yume Nikki or Cave Story, and it's up the exact moment in all regions. This is what I hope Sony is planning with all this Indie business.
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero
Blog||Tumblr|Steam|Twitter|FFXIV|Twitch|YouTube|Podcast|PSN|XBL|DarkZero